Cube Audio Nenuphar Single Driver Speaker (10 inch) TQWT Enclosure

@david_ten The V2s disappear better on all recordings than the V1s.  The extended bass and high frequencies result in better soundstaging and center fill.  It might be that I needed to move the V1s closer together than the V2s.

I haven't validated yet but I also think my Ayon Audio Odin SET tube based amp will better mate or bed in with the V2s.  

Posting this for those who may be interested in utilizing Cube Audio drivers in a DIY setting. 

@realworldaudio  sometimes posts within the general forum. I find what he shares thoughtful and helpful.  He recently installed the Fc8 driver in his Voigt Pipe cabinets. He has a YouTube channel and this video covers his Fc8 driver impressions, immediately after the install.

Cube Audio Fc8 driver in Voigt Pipe speaker cabinets

@mikeg Mike, good to know that the V2 driver is requiring less gain as break-in progresses.

I’m confused about your findings on the ’center fill’ / ’localization' to the individual speaker’. I don’t experience this in my system. Is there an explanation for why this may be happening with the V1s in your system? Thanks.

Congratulations on ’loving’ your V2s and the upsides they have resulted in.

Moving from the V1 to the V2 eliminates (Or diminishes) the need for subwoofers? Quite an observation and outcome. I still believe that a lot of the V1-V2 differences are driven by specific system make-up and subsequent synergy results. It just seems that existing source, amplification, cabling etc can tilt driver preference in either direction. Then of course there is the large Spector of individual listener bias and taste. I still contend that both are superb options. 
Charles

I’m at the 75 hour mark on the break in. The V2s definitely take longer to break on and that was confirmed by Jon Ver Halen. The V2s are opening up more and the need for more gain has dropped some. I never run out of gain on the V2s while using the FW SIT-1 which I was concerned about prior to the upgrade.

I think eliminating the Roon DSP 1.4dB of bass at 100 Hz and down (shelf) which I needed on the V1s is huge advantage for the V2s. V1 and V2 are both good but having more body and meat on the bone on the V2s eliminates the need for adding one or two subwoofers (in my case 2) because I can’t locate a single subwoofer centrally. So in a sense for my system, the $1500 V2 upgrade cost is well worth it considering 2 REL subwoofers, interconnects, and power cables would cost $7600. I also think the V1s with their added presence are a little of too much of a good thing. I mainly listen to jazz and I can say that I never have ear fatigue with the V2s. The V2s seem to match better to my all silver based cables which is a big plus also.

I tried my best to maintain the speaker position and toe in when I swapped in the V2s. On some recordings with the V1s, there was a less center fill and sometimes instruments were localized to the individual speaker. I never experienced with the V2s. The vocals are also more pinpoint on the V2s.  One might say the V2s soundstage better. The magic of the V1s is clearly carried over to the V2s but he V2s extract every last bit of musical energy and impact on the recording.  This is just my opinion. I also think reviewing a full range speaker such as the Nenuphar with a subwoofer doesn’t give the whole story on the performance of the speaker.

Completely unaffiliated, but I saw a Bakoon 13R up on USAM... thought I'd draw attention here since a number of people were talking about using a Bakoon with their Nenuphars.

@mikeg   Mike, congratulations on moving to the V2 Nenuphars and thanks for sharing your early findings.

Since I have the V1s and am using a 3 watt amp, the additional gain needed for the V2s is both noted and significant for my situation. 

Looking forward to your detailed impressions after the 100 hour mark.

Installed the V2 drivers on Friday. I had +1.4dB of Roon DSP at 100Hz set on the V1s. I eliminated the Roon DSP before hearing the V2 drivers for the first time. The V2s definitely require a break-in period. I am hearing some of the differences as demonstrated in the Cube Audio in the V1 vs V2 youtube video. I do prefer the V2 over the V1 drivers and will go into more detail after 100 hours of burn-in. Refer to my recent review of the Farad Super 3 power supply on stereotimes.com for my complete system configuration. The V2s require more gain from my Ayon Audio S-5 preamp to power the First Watt SIT-1. My preamp volume runs from -60 to 0. I typically play music between -47 and -35 (-30 is half volume) with the V1 drivers and now I play music in the range of -39 to -32 with the V2 drivers. The V2s start to open up after about 20 hours of playing.  I think it's a big plus that I have been able to eliminate the Roon DSP 100Hz bass boost with the V2s and I anticipate being able to move the Nenuphars further away from the front wall which are currently 11" as measured from the rear of the speaker cabinet.

Cube Audio Jazzon Speaker review by Dawid Grzyb // HiFi Knights

Jazzon Review by Dawid Grzyb of HiFi Knights

Video from the Cube Audio Room /// 2022 Praha Audio Video Show, courtesy of Cube Audio.

Jazzon Cube Audio Room Praha 2022

@dlcockrum   Thanks for sharing the link!!!  

@dlcockrum 

Thanks for providing that link.  As a non Nenuphar owner I confess that I have much admiration and respect for this speaker. It seems to nail all of the criteria and parameters that I find most important, even mandatory. I remain exceedingly happy with my Coincident Total Eclipse II speakers (13 years 😊).

The Nenuphars are 1st on my list if I ever decide to change speakers. I do believe that they represent an extraordinary achievement. I completely understand your happiness and satisfaction with them. I believe they’d be a superb match with my Coincident 300b SET mono blocks with their low damping factor and zero NFB design/circuit.

Charles 

Stumbled on this mini-review of the Nenuphar and I don’t believe it has been posted here yet. I find it to be the best description of their sound character I have seen:

https://eastendhifi.com/cube-audio-nenuphar-speakers-a-desert-island-speaker/

I realize you know this...listening via an outboard DAC/Headphone Amp and Headphones highlights remarkable differences in the presentations.

Another compilation / comparison, this time with four different music tracks (from Cube Audio):

Nenuphar / Nenuphar Mini / Jazzon comparison

Interesting comparison compilation from Cube Audio.

Leonard Cohen 'In My Secret Life' Nenuphar / Nenuphar Mini / Jazzon

A reminder. While dusting off the Nenuphars this morning, I noticed one of the four outer screws on the driver 'front assembly' was very loose. They are T-25 screws.

Eric, I also owned the Melody I2A3 integrated amplifier which was paired with Vaughn Audio Loudspeakers. That is the extent of my exposure to 2A3 amplifiers.

@david_ten  Thank you David. Those 2A3's are a beauty

@eric5kim Eric, both of my 2A3 amps were designed and built by Scott Sheaffer (Found Music). I picked up the first pair of monoblocks used. They were built for member Mike Lavigne. I commissioned the second set. They are a 4 chassis build. You can see the amps and their power supplies in my virtual system page.

I listen to electronic music fairly often as well as large orchestral music; and rock to a lesser degree. I find that my system delivers with all three genres. If anything, it is my room (which is mostly untreated) that exerts a role once the volume levels are 95 dB and up.

As a reminder, I have the V1 Nenuphars.

Much more important than raw power output numbers, in my estimation, is the quality of the amplifier build AND how well the incoming power (into the audio room, conditioning if used, and power cables) has been addressed. Component and cable isolation also factors in.

Members who are more versed in tube amplification, like @charles1dad and​​​​@larryi , may be worth reaching out to... or they can comment.

High dB peaks, especially with classical music, and the level of power needed before distortion and clipping, is covered in many threads. Many advised me against the 2A3 amps I chose. My experience has proved otherwise, with respect to the Nenuphars.

which 2A3 are you using? does it have enough headroom for large orchestral works/rock/electronic music? If listening at 88db need at least 10db of headroom for peaks

There is definitely a distinction between acquiring a "natural" patina and rust. 🙂

Charles

I saw that Cube Audio has used Tektron amps at shows in the past. My problem with Tektron isnt the sound but the top plate on their amps starts pitting over time. Some call it Patina....I call it Rust Spots which is really ugly IMO.  They need to fix that before I will purchase one.

Good to see the Bakoon 13R and Enleum 23R now getting the recognition they deserve.

@V10 thanks for your comparison, very useful. What other amps have you had experience of my I ask?

I can highly recommend using a TEKTRON 211 tube amp (integrated) with the Cube Audio Nenuphars! Before the TEKTRON I used a NAT Single HPS. The TEKTRON is much better!! This is an addictive combination!!

@david_ten which 2A3 are you using? 
does it have enough headroom for large orchestral works/rock/electronic music? 
If listening at 88db need at least 10db of headroom for peaks  

Eric 

Has anyone tried 2A3 amplifiers?

@eric5kim Eric, @riaa_award_collectors_on_facebook is correct.

I’m on my second set of 2A3 amps driving the Nenuphar V1s.

Questions?

The OP uses 2A3 amps I believe

Has anyone tried 2A3 amplifiers? I've tried a lot of different gear over the years but only heard a full Audio Note system before that was SET. 

Thanks David.😊

Charles

Another video from Cube Audio. Nenuphars with Aries Cerat. 

KlangLoft München listening studio: Aries Cerat and Nenuphars

@dspringham I noticed that you have your Nenuphars for sale on USAudiomart. Looks like you have moved on to the Harbeth 40.3's.  Would very much like to hear reasons for the change: specifically what you feel are the Harbeth's advantages over the Nenuhpars.  I have never heard any Harbeth model but certainly have read many positive reviews.  Thanks. 

david_ten  LOL. You've got my number.  If I could audition them in my room for 14 days, then yes, they might be in my future.  But I suffer not with the Nens and I have a feeling the two speakers have a lot in common despite vastly different technologies. 

@stephendunn Steve: Fleetwood Deville SQs in your near future??? :)

Thanks for sharing the review.

Here's Steve Huff's review of the Enleum 23R.  You have to appreciate his enthusiasm especially if you've heard this imp of an amp drive the Nenuphars.  Everything he says applies.  

@charles1dad i would love to know too lol

@dlcockrum 

Your NAT Audio HPS amplifier is very intriguing. NAT has a reputation for their own in house high quality output transformers. Their electronics are highly regarded. Your amplifier to my understanding is 50 watt SET via the GM 70 tube but can be switched to 15 watt power mode. I'm very curious as to which power mode you'll find to sound better with the Nenuphar. NAT is a proven audio product beyond any shadow of doubt. I think that you are in store for quite an exceptional musical journey.

Charles

@johnk “After all, it's a system we listen to and synergy is the goal.” 
 

Very true.

One of the reasons I prefer the compression driver front horn design over the full range is the ability to play at very low levels while still sounding articulate and powerful. The full ranges still are better than most low eff dynamic designs in their ability to sound good at low levels. If wanting low power amplification with all its benefits but its limits in output a full range or horn or both can really produce synergy with such. After all, it's a system we listen to and synergy is the goal.

@charles1dad Re: why the drastic change in direction from my Thiel rig, great question. Part of it is the old “been there done that” idiom. Having spent over 20 years with the CS5i’s (which initially were challenging to please), I feel as though I reached somewhat of a pinnacle with that system, at least within my financial means. Newer high-power SS gear has become very pricey. Second, during 20+ years of continuous improvement with the Thiel system, I never could get the speakers to “wake up” at low (or even moderately conservative) volume. On balance, they did achieve a pretty awesome result IMO when listening at higher volume. Lastly, I have always longed to experience the wetter and more harmonically natural tube sound. The CS5i’s are 87 db efficient and dip to nearly 2 ohms in the lower frequencies. Amp killer. I never felt tube amplifiers were viable with them (although I remain convinced that they would benefit greatly from what good tubes bring sonically). I must say I never experienced reliability issues with robust SS amplifiers (Krell and early-gen Classe Audio). As an aside, I clearly recall listening (alone) in just my underwear when I had the Class A-biased Krell FPB 600c in the rig due to the incredible heat that amp generates.

Hopefully the NAT Audio integrated will soon be healthy to begin my tube journey. In the meantime, the SIT-2, being a known entity with the Nenuphars, should provide me with a baseline to ground my exploration into tubes driving the V2’s.

Not a weak thin sound like many full-range systems produce. But the ability to play any music type inc bass-heavy at loud SPL levels without breakup. This is something that eludes most all full-range driver loudspeakers.

This would explain the universal satisfaction and happiness of Cube Audio Nenuphar owners. As they (Nenuphars)  successfully conquered these pervasive shortcomings of many single driver /full range designs.

Charles

Built at least 100 full-range driver speakers. While I do prefer multiway horns with compression drivers a true full-range in proper cabinets has a certain something that's hard to ignore. What I use now is a pair of ultra-rare Fostex fe208 sol special editions in massive bottom-firing blh these can play pipe organ with authority and have bass tested to 30hz. It's wonderful having true full-range performance out of 1 driver. Not a weak thin sound like many full-range systems produce. But the ability to play any music type inc bass-heavy at loud SPL levels without breakup. This is something that eludes most all full-range driver loudspeakers.

@dlcockrum

Congratulations on acquiring the Nenuphars and the First Watt S.I.T. amplifier. In my opinion you have established an excellent foundation to build an audio system around (I believe the NAT audio amplifier an equally good option as well). I have zero doubt that your sound quality will only improve with accumulation of playing time hours. I’m very interested to know how you find this direction compared to your former Thiel speakers-Classe Audio amplifier based audio system. Polar ends of the audio component spectrum.☺

Charles

@rwpollock Gotcha. Later last night I found that the sound is considerably better with the polarity reversed at the SIT-2s output terminals. Nelson touches on this in the manual but I found the wording ambiguous, perhaps encouraging experimentation.

<<The V2 drivers, being brand spanking new, are still way tight, lack top end airiness/open-ness and overall dynamics, especially in the treble region, sounding overly polite thus lacking essential sparkle. I am expecting some improvement in these areas as the drivers loosen up and everything settles in...>>

My V1s took awhile; the sound improved after about 50 hours, and the magic happened at 95 hours.

Thank you David for both the warm introduction and your patient guidance in selecting and sourcing the Nenuphar V2s.

It has taken quite a bit longer than I originally planned to get the all new system in place. First was Axpona 2022 delaying the shipment of the new Nenuphars. Best laid plans and all that…

Then, my first choice for amplification, a NAT Audio Single HPS integrated amp failed to operate properly during testing at the distributor and is currently stranded with the hood up awaiting parts. Fortunately @rwpollock posted here a few days ago that he was parting with his First Watt SIT-2 and I snatched it up (thanks Bob!). Very fortuitous, except that I have no appropriate external preamp solution at present (since the NAT Audio integrated needed none), so I am temporarily limited to driving the SIT-2 directly from the single ended outputs of the Meitner MA3, also new to me, using its (reportedly excellent) VControl digital volume control.

The SIT-2 arrived this afternoon and I am now listening to the rig for the first time as I write. First thing that strikes me is the very satisfying bass performance from the Nenuphars. Next is the enormous soundstage and the sense of true depth and proportionate spatial relationship between instruments and performers.

Not all is peachy yet of course. The V2 drivers, being brand spanking new, are still way tight, lack top end airiness/open-ness and overall dynamics, especially in the treble region, sounding overly polite thus lacking essential sparkle. I am expecting some improvement in these areas as the drivers loosen up and everything settles in, but I am thinking that a true active preamp addition to drive the SIT-2 is already proving mandatory.

I have my old Ayre K-1xe preamp in storage but really wish to employ tubes this time around. Suggestions anyone?

I'd like to welcome and congratulate Dave ( member @dlcockrum ) as a new owner of the Nenuphar V2s. 

Cube Audio Jazzon / Tektron Room High End Munich 2022. Close up video of the components and room. Posted by Cube Audio.

Cube Audio / Tektron / Lampizator Room at High End Munich 2022

Cube Audio Jazzon from High End Munich 2022 (courtesy of Cube Audio):

Jazzon High End Munich 2022

I've listed the amp on AudioMart. Check there if you are interested. They're not making any more of them. :-)

Hi Robert ,

Just sent you a PM

David