Cube Audio Nenuphar Single Driver Speaker (10 inch) TQWT Enclosure

@abd1   How are your current speakers setup? If you share their positioning, toe-in and your listening position measurements; as well as your room's dimensions and speaker placement within the room...other owners should be able to give you better (more effective) feedback.

I’m curious how other Nenuphar owners have their speakers set up? Distance apart, distance from walls, distance to mlp, toed in/not toed in, etc.? Also, are you sitting at ear height of the center of the driver? With the speaker titled back I think I am sitting slightly below the center of driver. When I lean up and my ear gets above middle it can sometimes make a shift in imaging. Anyone else experience this?
 

Do your speakers disappear in the listening space? I live the sound of the Nenuphar minis but i tend to get sound coming direct from the speakers. Not everything but often vocals seem to come from the left speaker. I’ve tried moving the speakers closer, further apart, forward, back, toed in, etc. I’ve also tried multiple amps, preamps, dacs, cables, etc. just to be clear the speakers sound great but I’m still trying to get that magic imaging where the speakers completely disappear. Maybe my room is too small for single drivers. Any tips?

 

If you have Roon you can adjust the DSP.  I found that -1dB at 4000Hz and +1.5dB at 100Hz (both 1 for Q) with the Sample Rate Conversion set at smooth linear phase sounds excellent to my ears in my room.  This will get me by until there are more ears on the V2.

David, things are moving rather slowly atm. I’ll send my drivers off in the New Year now and in the meanwhile I’ll try and get hold of some technical details.

Happy  Christmas to everyone.

@paullb Mentioning the following in case it is of interest:

Since Srajan Ebaen’s ’review’ makes note of these differences between the two versions of the drivers as implemented in the Nenuphar speaker cabinet...

If I move my listening position back by ~ 6 feet; which results in my standard-position toe-in coming to a point ~ 2 feet in front of me:

the effect (using SB’s terms) is a downward shift in weight, increased "blackness" and a reduction in the "incisiveness in the presence region"...the penalty: is a decrease in sound stage width...

[NOTE: a small couch (my preferred listening position) is likely a contributor as it is now in front of me; this outcome may be simply specific to my room, etc. etc.]

@David_ten

+1 on impedance and frequency response graphs of the two drivers.

@paullb  and @stephendunn  +1 to both of your posts. Great points and perspective!

@toetapaudio Robert, any updates from Cube Audio that you are able to share?

It would be helpful and nice to see the specifications of the new driver version and comparative data for both drivers (as standalone drivers and as implemented in the Nenuphar speaker cabinet).

@mozartfan

"I think Cube handled this new upgrade with a stand-off-ish-ness. A bit too rushed , or lets say, lack on planed implimentation..in the intro of the new **break-through".

 

I don’t believe that there was a "rush" in the development/implementation process. Cube Audio strikes me as very deliberate and methodical in these matters. I like you, do yearn for more specific information as to the differences between the original and new driver. Pure curiosity I’ll admit. My gut feeling is that both are superb drivers and the choice is totally dependant on listener objectives.

Charles

Just my two cents. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Well thats all we got to go on right now as things stand,, 2 cents and a opinion, buys you not even a StarBucks cappicino.

new driver is "different " rather than better. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Yes correct I just cked the web site, Cube mentions **Our Mark 2 cone is now in our speakers..** But Cube does not specify exactly what is so dif in cone material. Cube fails to mention exactly what the original cone material is made of, nor what is so dif in the new cone composition. The pics look identical. I see nothing new in the photos. \ = Cones look identical. Someone please tell me whats going on? I think we all deserve to know. The prices seem to be the same. Cube needs to come out with a video explaining exactly what is the dif between old cone vs new cone. And in terms of bass, mids highs between the 2 cones. I think Cube handled this new upgrade with a stand-off-ish-ness. A bit too rushed , or lets say, lack on planed implimentation..in the intro of the new **break-through*.

@stephendunn 

Good observations. It seems pretty clear to me that Srajan was making the case that the new driver is "different " rather than better. It would be really nice if both speaker drivers were to be available. I believe that the new driver loses 2 db of sensitivity. 

Charles 

Just conjecture on my part, since I haven’t heard the new driver, but I have been following six moons for quite some time and heard some of the same equipment so I feel I have a general frame of reference, I welcome the change or perhaps addition -maybe they should make both drivers available. Srajan doesn’t seem to suggest that the new driver is better, just different. However, I think it’s great there might be a single driver speaker with a warmer tonal balance. Not everyone wants to dance on the knifes edge but still enjoys the things that single driver speakers do well such as easy to drive, no driver discontinuities, great imaging, etc. Just my two cents.

Perhaps the most important quality of the Nenuphar's--for me--is their ability, with the right amp, etc., to create a bewitching or what SE described as a psychotropic sense of presence.  In describing the sound of the upgraded driver, SE claims it has "a bit less presence-region amplitude, more weight."  This is a big red flag for me, especially since I've achieved "more weight" from the addition of a sub.  Losing this upper mid-range-presence-magic might be impossible to regain with component or cable swapping.

Seems to me if current Nenuphar owners have their system dialed in to their liking, I’d leave well enough alone. Or as Ebaen suggested you’re just changing components/cables again in an attempt to match the voicing of the new driver.

 

If one feels they will benefit from the fuller voiced new driver then go for it.I believe the original driver is a remarkable achievement.

Charles

Quoting from the above:

 

"The question on the minds of current Nenuphar owners is obvious: should they step up to the V2?  Chances are steep. They've carefully cultivated then locked in their ideal balance with the right amplifier and DAC already. If owner acceptance of personal right lives inside a very narrow window, that balance will predictably tip. Now it'll need readdressing; again. That could mean more hardware expenses. I can't predict the appeal of that unless one was still laboring over this balance."

- Srajan Ebaen / 6Moons

Srajan Ebaen / 6 Moons page 2 of his Nenuphar F10 Neo V2 review:

Nenuphar F10 Neo V2 page 2 review from 6Moons

Srajan Ebaen has wrapped up his ’review' of the Nenuphars with the F10 Neo V2 drivers.

It’s damn fine as it is imo.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

This is basically how I see..hear things. I mean whats the rush? If it sounds great as **IS*, its too risky going for *2 birds in the bush**

. Seems Cube has the magnet down pack, maybe they feel there was a mod to be done on the cone. As you guys know in FR speaker tech. magnet quality and cone material, Both equally of highest importance. Voxativ has 1 or 2 wooden models, and the rest is this super thin paper garbage. AER has their own in house paper traeted which they will not even whisper 1 word the composition, = *Top Secret** Tang band has a really nice banana fiber which I like , but not up to the wood level in some lower fq;’s. Fostex has smashed Kenaf leaf fiber. And alsoa double sandwiched cone model. So every manufacturer has taken their own specific route in cone material. I’ve looked at Cube’s site, they really dont go into the composition. Seems like paper composite, nice and stiff. Cube w/o doubt has the finest magnet motor with 81 Nd cylinders @ 1480 grams of pure Nd power. That aint cheap ya know.

But then the sens level is a bit too high for my needs/preferences. Small room, near field, low SPL. 95db sensitivity is ideal, or actually I;’d prefer 94 db, sens, but I ain’t complaining.

The DLVX6 is a wonderful 93db sens, which just BARELY allows for me to work it in with the VX8. Had the VX6 been 94db, sens, it would be 1 db sens too high to employ as a backup dual. basically it all comes down to which manufacturer has the cone material that sounds best to you and your music selections.

 

Keep us informed how the new cone upgrade sounds vs the original cone.

@mikeg Mike, I noticed that as well...however, I thought Srajan was swapping out the drivers. Can you confirm if he received a completely new set of drivers + cabinets? Thanks.

 

Based on the photo on the current last displayed page on 6 Moons, it looks like Cube when to a single footer on the front baffle and two footers on the rear of the cabinet.

+1 @toetapaudio

I don’t see that there is a need for a rush into this, let’s get more details and let Srajan finish his review. It’s damn fine as it is imo.

Based on the photo on the current last displayed page on 6 Moons, it looks like Cube when to a single footer on the front baffle and two footers on the rear of the cabinet.

I don’t see that there is a need for a rush into this, let’s get more details and let Srajan finish his review. It’s damn fine as it is imo.

Here's how I see things as they stand

OK so you ship the driver off in the ~~hopes~~ of improvement in overall sound. 

Got it

A bit risky if you  ask me.

Lets say there si something(s) you like about the **new impvoed* cone,,but then, perhaps you find after some time, you miss the **old style* sound.

Now what?

REship back to have **old style* cone RE-intstalled??

I don't think so. 

Now ya got a  fly in the soup.

If DavidLouis told me, ship your VC8 and VX6 back for FREE reconing, and WE pay ship boths ways.

Our ~~New ~~ cone is so much better in bass.mids, highs.

I'd say, 

**Why? For what? *

I like the speakers exactly the way they voice now.

Just saying...

 

Cube is going to have to figure another option for its owners. 

Persoanlly if it were me, I wouldnt do it. 

1st off, they dont even tell us whats so special about the new cone materail.

have they gone to wood fiber composite now?

If yes, then yes I would ship back. I love wood composite

But if the  new looks darn close to the old, no I would not take the chance.

toetapaudio  Yes, I will post impressions in a separate thread.  Have about 6 hours on it right now.  There are so many filters and combinations that I've hardly scratched the surface.  First raw impression:  GIANT KILLER, beware.

Stephen, interested to know your thoughts on iFi Pro iDSD Signature. Other reasonably priced dacs that seem interesting are Lab12 Reference and MHDT Orchid. I might be getting my hands on these? Would make an interesting separate thread I think.

As for Judge Judy, not sure what you’re alluding to

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

I’m sure Cube will be straight and honest/fair with its Neu owners in the manner they handle the upgrade. Its just that if you watch some of these petty court cases, folks trust the other party to the point of blind faith. Just saying.... You definetly do not want to be w/o music for more than what the agreements states. 14 days should mean 14 days OR LESS. Not 14 days + a few extra. If Cube was straight,, they could say, IF we can’t get the driver back to you in 14 days or less, its a 50% discount off upgrade,,Or something like that. This is my point.

 

That 14 days might just be a hopeful guess. Cna you imagine if it extended beyond 3,4, 5 weeks. Thats my reference to *Judge Judy*. Welcome to the real world which harbors a few surprises.

mozartfan  Can't be 100% sure unless you audition them obviously, which I can't.  But, as I've intimated, I would trust Srajan's recommendation.

Jon is estimating turn around time.  I don't think he's done an upgrade yet.  He's a very straight up person/distributor, so I think once he knows what the turn around will be, he'll be transparent in letting us know.  Will obviously have a lot to do with volume.

As for Judge Judy, not sure what you're alluding to.  That I do the upgrade and am so unhappy I sue distributor/manufacturer and end up on Judge Judy to get my $1500 back plus original drivers?  Absolutely, she would be my first choice for resolution... 

I'd go very carefully with shipping back your drivers to get reconed.

1) are you 100% positive you will prefer the new upgrade over what you have now

2) 1-2 weeks turn around,,

ahhh, any guarantee 14 days by midnight last day of the 14??.

**ohh shipping was slow,,,,shop over loaded with recone orders,,,,some techs are out for various reasons...***

Watch Judge Judy sometimes, the things folks get themselves into.

Just saying....

The iFi Pro iDSD Signature would be for a second system although I wouldn’t be surprised if it could hold its own against my Totaldac d-1 dual. We’ll see.

All reviewers I know of have "self imposed and rationalized limitations" so you have to pick and choose. Srajan is one of three reviewers I’ve trusted enough to buy on their recommendation and so far I have not been disappointed. The other was Jack Roberts when he was writing for Dagogo. And the third was Art Dudley who turned me onto Shindo gear. I can see how all three of those reviewers share similar self imposed and rationalized limitations.

@stephendunn What will you be comparing the iFi Pro iDSD Signature to? Within your primary system?

Srajan Ebaen was one of my go to reviewers, however, I’ve become less enamoured over the last couple of years . He has many self imposed and rationalized limitations...which of course he has every right to... but it seriously restricts his bandwidth.

BTW, I have the iFi Micro iDSD Signature for desktop duties, when the need arises.

Thanks for the additional information on the turnaround time, etc.

Yes, David, he said 1.5 to 2 weeks and that he would post about the whole process on his website once he knew more.

This is going to present another possible upgrade opportunity: to replace hook up wire while driver is being upgraded.  Wire is apparently connected to drivers via banana plugs which should make replacement a little easier.  But of course how would one determine how much of the upgrade was due to new hookup wire or new "cones"?  At any rate I'm holding my horses until Srajan weighs in.  Also, sent him an email to remind him there are a bunch of us Nen owners eagerly awaiting his verdict on the new drivers and thanking him for his review of the IFI pro iDSD Signature which arrives today for a 60 day home trial via Music Direct.  

@stephendunn  Thanks. That's super helpful.

Did Jon give you a feel for turnaround time?

Assuming of course the new drivers are an easily discernible upgrade. 

I emailed Jon at Refined Audio and he said that the driver upgrade would require sending him original drivers and his replacing “the cones” for a price of “roughly $1500”.  I think this is a fair deal from Cube Audio. 

Yes indeed, David.

@toetapaudio  Thanks, Richard. If the new drivers are available, as claimed on the Cube Audio website, then the specifications and new measurements should be up as well. Perhaps you can pass that feedback on?

I have asked for more details and will post here.

From Mono and Stereo (with a few photos):

F10 Neo and F8 Neo V2

 

 

The deliberate slow tease is in full effect courtesy  of Ebaen.

Charles 

Some additional detail (though not much)...but thankfully a photo of the new driver over at 6Moons:

 

Cube Audio F10 Neo V2 Driver

Brief mention (at this time) over on the Cube Audio website:

 

"F10 Neo has been updated to version 2. You can expect it now to be have even more bass, higher top end extension with slight reduction of upper mid-range at the same time."

Possibly they have found a way to reduce the number of whizzers. My logic may well be faulty but, knowing that they are developing a 15", it would seem that even more WCs would be necessary to flatten its response in comparison to the 10". And that would not be a very elegant proposition. So, maybe, in an effort to hem in the number on the upcoming 15" they have discovered a simpler solution for the 10". Or maybe I'm all wet🙄.

hummm Interesting

V2 a  *new* version of the Nd 10.

Can't be any changes on the magnet, at 3 lbs of Nd power, whats there to **upgrade*?? 

Cone material/design? 

Wonder if Cube will  swap out the **older** Nd10 for the *newer* version.

With a   small fee attached. 

IMHO I think Cube should have gone in the other direction on cone size. Must be those EU audiophiles wanting, demanding a  **super FR  * that cats as a  sub woofer style bass bang. 

hummm , don't need deep bass, my genre is CM, just some kettle drum s now and then, no deep bass required.

I think Cube should have gone on to develope a  W6 and then  maybe a  W4. But certainly a  W6 before a  W15. 

Will be interesting to see the New *improved*(?) Nd10 V2

Hey David thanks for the update, Keep us posted on futher comments from 6 Moons. 

 

Regarding the F10 Neo V2...from 6Moons / Srajan Ebaen (initial post... and to be continued):

Cube Audio F10 Neo V2 driver

 

There is indication (for example: the 6Moons "coming next" thumbnail) of a coming announcement regarding the Nenuphar F10 Neo driver.

Posting this as a heads-up.

 

The return policy / restock policy question is a good one.

Jon Ver Halen of Refined Audio is the U.S. Importer/Distributor for Cube Audio and he would be able to answer and address the question.

 

Every review on Cube has the speaker as their Reference Fidelity Speaker. I can’t say until I make a real time hearring

I did visit the several YT uploads, and prefer to withhold making any comments as to what I think I MIGHT BE hearing.

My Reference Speaker is the DavidLouis

So when we do get a shhotout it will be

Reference vs Reference,,we will see, or better we will hear.

Both have stunning magnet systems.

Impeccable highly crafted designs

The 1 thing that separates these 2 drivers ,,well Cube has multi whiizers and the models witha single whizzer the cone is very large,,, is the cone type material

Cube offers some kind of paper with a NEW coating.

vs

DavidLouis wood cone, and some sort of heavy paper whizzer.

Thats the only thing different.

As we all know cone material makes all the difference in how a speaker responds to fq imput from the source/amplification electron energy.

As the electrons strike the cone, this produces a electrical energy charge being composed of musical notations.

This energy is transfered to the magnet and the magnet pushes this musical notations out via the cone material.

Thus cone material being different, both speakers will project a different sound image.

IOW Cube and Davidlouis will not sound the same, even though the magnet structure of both offer high energy.

I do plan next year to order the FC8 and only ifa return policy is offered.

I will pay a 10% - 20% restock fee as is my protocol with any return, tubes, amps, cd players. Although I rarely make returns.

Its just good business etiquette,,and keeps everyone happy.

Hey David, Yes, I will  reach out to Grzegorz and see how it is possible to audition a  Cube Neuphar speaker.

I am approaching this DIY, and so makes sense to ordera  single driver pair and go from there.

Speakers look great.

Alittle out my budget on the Nd magnets.

I'll try the intro model the FC8 ferrite magnet.

btw feel free to come on over and hear the Davidlouis VX8 and soon the VX6 speakers. 

Just PM me when you have time.

My schedule is open, I'm in Kenner

paul

@mozartfan  Paul, I got tied up last evening. I did see your first post (now deleted), but not the second one.

I'll follow through via PM. I have received your message.

Since you expressed interest in the smaller Cube Audio drivers, and are approaching this from a DIY angle, I suggest reaching out to Grzegorz directly via email.

They offer some details on their website for cabinet construction, etc. but he may be able to put you in touch via a forum or facebook group etc (over in Europe) that are using their drivers with DIY audio variations. Google translate makes it easy.