Cryogenic experience wanted. Constructive please

Essentialaudio, are you responding to my post about cryo'ing the wife. Are you saying the risk factor is that she may still hate my rig after the thaw and then I'll have to start all over again buying new gear??? LOL

Don't do it unless you're willing and able to replace your equipment if you don't like the results.

Anyone try cryo'ing the wifey or significant other. I wonder if they would appreciate our audio rigs after the thaw. Just thinking out loud. LOL ;<)

02-01-13: Br3098
Cryo schmeyo. When I was working in Alaska in the late 70s, and had to park my truck outside when it was -68 degrees F outside. When I moved it into a heated garage and it thawed a week later I can't say that I noticed any improvement in the sound from the Delco radio/8-track player.

Now that's what I would call a real world A-B test !!!!!!

Cryo schmeyo. When I was working in Alaska in the late 70s, and had to park my truck outside when it was -68 degrees F outside. When I moved it into a heated garage and it thawed a week later I can't say that I noticed any improvement in the sound from the Delco radio/8-track player.

"A Josephson junction is made by sandwiching a thin layer of a nonsuperconducting material between two layers of superconducting material. The devices are named after Brian Josephson, who predicted in 1962 that pairs of superconducting electrons could "tunnel" right through the nonsuperconducting barrier from one superconductor to another. He also predicted the exact form of the current and voltage relations for the junction. Experimental work proved that he was right, and Josephson was awarded the 1973 Nobel Prize in Physics for his work."

This is not to say the molecular structure of metals is not changed during cryo, including the transformation of some trace elements to more benign ones and making more homogeneous metals that have been rolled, drawn, bent or hammered, such as musical instruments or wire. For non-audio apps this can result in golf clubs that hit the ball farther, rifles that shoot more accurately, engine parts that last longer, etc.

The typical 24 hour cryo process seems to work well for audio items, which are placed into the cryo cooler along with non-audio items like gun barrels, golf clubs, engine parts, or whatever. I suspect the typical cryo treatment at a cryo lab comprises 10 hour ramp down, 4 hour dwell and 10 hour ramp up. These times could vary depending on size and density of the items being cryo'd. CDs for example reach cryo temps much faster than say a trransformer or gun barrel or French horn.

I would be remiss if I didn't mention freezing audio items in the home freezer, which is also an irreversible process and provides very good results without all the issues related to shipping costs, down time, or temperature shock resulting from cryo temperatures. Cables and CDs, LPs, tubes, even CD players can be frozen overnight then slow thawed in the main refrigerator section for 4 hours or so. Voila!

If you try freezing CDs at home here's a little tip. After freezing and thawing the CDs wipe the data surface with a clean cloth or soft tissue as the freezing process, like the cryo process, drives a little residual mold release compound to the surface of the disc. Use the breathe test to make sure the CD surface is clean before playing.

It's actually Josephens or Josephons Junctions. Sorry about the gender.

All the best,
Nonoise

There are variables such as time to reach cryo temp, length of time at cryo temp, actual cryo temp and time to return to ambient temp. I believe these variables can affect the end result.

I would seek info from someone who is knowledgeable and experienced with the process because I think it's more complicated than just randomly putting something into "cryo".

I don't think paper, pulp, hemp and the like are good candidates for cyro treatment. I could be wrong but from what I've read, metal benefits from it greatly as NASA, the DOD and scores of universities have found out.

I just read that the procedure lessens the repulsion side and strengthens the attraction side of the equation: a changing of their natural nature. It's a good thing for metal since the crystal nature of metal with a greater attraction will hold together tighter, allowing a freer flow of electromagnetic waves. This tightness lessens the "Josephine's Junctions" which interrupt that flow.

I don't think one would want these properties applied to a speaker cone designed to move in and out, get looser from break in, and achieving a final state of elastic play.

I just read this and may be all wet on the matter but it's food for thought. Others here who know more will eventually offer more authoritative advice.

All the best,
Nonoise

Did some investigation regarding the permanent effects of cryogenic treatment of wires, and it is a almost permanent effect. The wire will change slightly from bending it but not change back to its original form. This according to a few local treatment facilities. Guess Ill have to partially eat my words.

As Always, Good Listening

Peter

Don't cryo a laser or electrolytic caps or speaker drivers. You could cryo the magnet assembly of a tweeter whose dome and faceplate can be removed. Tom

My experience is pretty much the opposite of Peter's above for what it's worth.

I've cryoed entire components, but mostly very cheap units as "experiments". Results were mixed: one DVD player seemed to benefit much more from treatment than another, but both were very cheap players and are no longer around.

There's also much more potential for damage with thermal shock with entire components due to the much larger numbers of dissimilar materials.

I would highly recommend treatment of all cables (power, IC and speaker) and receptacles with one caveat. If you are going to treat all cabling at once, I would strongly suggest you seek out some kind of cable cooking device like the Audiodharma or Nordost and have everything burned in post cryo.

If you don't be prepared for a fairly lengthy and nasty burn-in process that may take as much as 30-45 days and with all cabling done at once and reinserted into a system, the cumulative effects of cryo without burn-in will be quite nasty.

Receptacles may be burned in on something like the Audiodharma; alternatively, two or three weeks on a household appliance with a strong current draw, particularly with a compressor that kicks in like a refrigerator or chest freezer, using both halves of the receptacle, should get you most of the way there.

In my experience, movement or bending of the cables has not diminished the effects of cryo (I've had every receptacle that my system draws from, including those in my line conditioner, as well as every cable in the system treated and most have been in use since treatment for 7-10 years plus), nor should it. All scientific evidence points to a molecular change that is permanent.

The cryo process strengthens materials, especially metals, and in the case of cables and internal wiring makes them better conductors. Cryo improves the performance of transistors, electron tubes, metal connectors, etc. The only caveat with cryo is that it is prudent to wait a week or so after receiving items back from cryo before critical listening as they can tend to sound a little strange until the thermal shock effects wear off. The cryo process is irreversible. Thank goodness for that.

Had an entire Olympia LX preamp with its CPS power supply cryogenically treated Olympia LX There was maybe a very small increase in transparency in the sound produced by the preamp after the procedure.

As far as treating cables is not money well spent in my opinion as soon as you start moving the cables i.e.. bending etc. the effects of the treatment on the metal starts disappearing.

Only way for you to find out is to try it and then see what you find. As far as your drivers I'd be concerned about damage of the surrounds from the cool down - ask whom ever does the procedure for you they should have experience in what materials don't freeze down well.

Good Listening

Peter