@mahgister I’m in the wait and see what happens camp, where I like to sojourn, while the World goes a bit crazy crazy crazy. Like yourself, I am a student of history. When significant volumes of persons of a professional nature start asking us to question the narrative, I for one will listen and weigh it up. Yes, I’d heard about the now removed falsified HCQ paper in LANCET, and I heard about the debates in Australia regarding it’s vilification and false reports (bungled research) as well. The paper regarding Ivermectin causing scarring on a persons heart, which was totally debunked and removed post haste. I would bet when the Sars Cov 2 virus did the rounds after an under cooked bat was eaten at a fish market in late 2019 (coincidentally within walking distance of a research laboratory specifically researching gain of function on Sars Cov viruses), big pharma didn’t think medications already in use could be used to control it effectively. I hope audio shows do come back, as this cannot possibly go on indefinitely. And I would hope in the advent that a vaccinated or not vaccinated person does exhibit symptoms of Covid 19, that we are all aware of effective early treatment plans that exist. |
@mahgisterOk i get your point... I apologize if i hurted you...But i am also sensible to critics about my system... And yes my adult children thinks my audio room is next to a hollywood mad scientist...Then you are right and i never see this movie ... I will, thanks... My deepest respect and friendship.... |
@mahgister I could care less about how much anyone’s system costs or how it sounds. That is their business. I’m sure it sounds wonderful. Its just that the photos of your room bears a striking resemblance to the apartment in which Mel Gibson’s character lived in the movie "Conspiracy Theory". The irony doesn’t escape anyone remotely objective. My apologies if you mistook my comments as somehow derogatory economically. |
@mahgisterYou said it yourself you LOOK at my system and the photos are already old... My system look more crazy than in these photos i can assure you... By the way you look only, you never LISTEN to my system.... I can assure you that nobody who listen to my under 500 bucks system with all my no cost homemade devices and homemade embeddings controls and my homemade mechanical equalizer dont laugh at me anymore... Then laugh if you want to, but wait to listen to it before laughing too much loud here... It seems what appear before your eyes catch your attention more than what is behind your gaze.... Which one is the craziest ? The one who dont spend money and create his own hi-fi system for peanuts or the one who think that the ready made costly gear must be better? Asking the question is answering it.... «Character is sometimes like sound invisible to the speaking eye»-Groucho Marx 🤓 And dont look in the Groucho dictionary of citation....I just create it for you.... |
All my Groucho citations are most of the times if not less clever at least less humorous than what Groucho could have said for sure... All my Groucho citations are purely fictitious invention of mine...I think that it would be evident for the hundred one i created in these threads here... But even if it is an invention, Groucho was not a closed mind ....Then your objection about a new testament citation in a jewish mouth has no meaning and then is no argument against my pun ... And yes we can agreeably disagree... My deepest respect to you sincerely... |
With that said, I believe you are giving the "greed conspiracy" way too much credit.Your memory forgot too much easily... do you remember the false analysis about HCQ in the Lancet about one year ago? Who do you think paid for that piece of costly proven now retracted forgery? And why? Think a minute and you will discover the answer... 😊 And by the way a jewish clever man like Groucho could very surely for once in his life read the new testament and pick some grain of salt there, like everywhere else....Your remark speak more about yourself than about Groucho...Then dont give lesson about Groucho or jewish mind...They could be open like the mind of any people in any culture... And who do you think pilot all health budget in the usa and one of the biggest in the world for more than 30 years? Between "NO conspiracy", and between "all is conspiracy", we could ourselves think out of this childish alternative if yourself could not... And if audio fun for you is arguing about digital and vinyl you are not very far ahead, i dont miss useless false warring choices even in audio thread...It remind me too much of the stupid alternative between "no vaxx at all " and "all must be vaxx" at all cost... ghasley they don’t understand consequences, especially the impact they have on others……. And the "song" about misleading the mass if we discuss health politic here, is a pathetically non clever argument... I suppose in my life that all people could and would understand an argument if they pause to think.... It is the basis of democracy... Then censoring thread for the motive of leading the mass in the right direction is completely undemocratic to say the least... Growing mind is freeing ourself from propaganda and censorship of all kind and from childish alternatives.... |
@millercarbon https://theexpose.uk/2021/09/30/deaths-among-teenagers-have-increased-by-47-percent-since-covid-vacc... You seem like a passionate and knowledgeable person on many subjects. You and I have bantered back and forth on a variety of topics and it has been typically fun. Why though would you post links to clearly questionable data when its actually fine to just disagree? You are better than that. Frankly, as I've said earlier, the pro-crowd and the anti-crowd have their minds made up already. Daily Expose is a U.K.-focused conspiracy site created in November of last year, and since its establishment, it has promoted a standard portfolio of COVID-denialist, anti-vaxxer, and Great Reset myths framed as breaking news. |
@tomic601 You are correct. I’m not saying I think that certain people aren’t making catastrophically stupid decisions with their health and yours/mine, I’m just saying nothing I can possibly say on an Audiogon forum is going to change it. I’m reasonably certain that a person who would choose a path different from my own also believes/disbelieves in cables/fuses/magic-contact-KY-jelly on their interconnects than the position I take on same. I’m not saying the position I take on a given subject is absolutely right, its just my position...I might be wrong but I can live with the outcome. Others seem to expend alot of energy trying to convince others they are correct, I just wish they would finish cutting my lawn before doing so. LOL. The thing that puzzles me the most is when a seemingly intelligent person begins their quest on anything with an answer before posing the question. I miss the days where all we argued about on Audiogon was whether vinyl was better than digital or that tubes are better than solid state. Best.... |
@mahgister But which one audio professionals? Engineers ? which one of the many engineering fields? reviewers ? musicians ? acoustician? psycho acoustician? experimented audiophiles ?Pick the one (or more) who you believe answers your query to your satisfaction. That goes for anything: medical, audio, lawncare...I am unemotional about who you or others choose to trust. You will make the right decision for you. Now, the right decision doesn't mean 100% positive outcomes, it just means that you made an honest assessment and can live with the consequences. «Take also the good seeds where they had fallen»-Groucho Marx reading Bible....🤓 This is a cute quote that I'm reasonably certain never happened...Groucho was a practicing Jew. If you think that this mass of convergent greed did not exist , quit even reading audio forum, you will not be able to figure it out by yourself anyway....😁😊 LOL...I'm not even certain how to respond. Even though I believe I'm quite objective, I'm reasonably certain that you and I will not be able to find middle ground. With that said, I believe you are giving the "greed conspiracy" way too much credit. Greed didn't start 20 months ago, I'm fairly certain that those who are admittedly greedy are far too fragmented to have organized with a common goal. Best wishes with your journey. |
Two anecdotes/observations from Australia. Sharri Markson, she of the Murdoch/Fox stable, has recently completed a documentary (utilizing a forgotten skill known as "investigative journalism") on various issues surrounding Covid. Naturally the Left have treated it with contempt. That in itself is rather revealing. That the China Communist Party people aren’t pleased goes without saying. As if they could dislike Australia anymore than they already do, so it matters not. Pfffftt. Second, and unrelated directly to Covid is the whole ongoing issue of the integrity of the science we hear from government scientists. This is addressed in the doco as it relates to Covid. My personal experience with bureaucrat science is that Australia has recently banned the importation of liquid nicotine used in vaping. The government scientists who supported the ban invariably relied on evidence that was either completely incorrect, irrelevant or misleading. {edit- perhaps they have promising career prospects in some marketing outfits we here may be acquainted with..} This was abundantly obvious to anyone of reasonable intelligence who could do a little reading on the issues. Why lie if you are telling the truth, kinda thing? Just my little rant, I’ll go away now. |
Thanks mnmark for your kind words... My point is simple: vaccinations cannot replace protocol treatments and protocol treatments cannot replace vaccines... a reflection about the wise use of the 2 for different population age and at risk groups is my ONLY point... By the way all drugs had a toxicity level in their use, HcQ is no exception but with ivermectin they are each one of the lowest risk drugs on earth used billions times for more than fifty years or near so... Then so much for the dangers of using them... Is HQC efficient? It is another question i am not qualified to debate.... But there is many others low cost treatments to choose for...ivermectin is one there is others also... My point is only this: vaccination cannot be with a coronavirus the only solution, nor protocol treatment coould be the only solution for all, especially with at risk very old people with a compromised immune system... It is not simple to understand? Covid is not the regular flu but has something in common with it, it mutates very much...Do you think flu vaccination must be forcefully mandated for all people massively each winter? I dont think so...Pharmaceutical companies wish for that certainly, but is it science? To decide about vaccination is risk caculus based on age and specific individual risk and specific needs ALWAYS here...It is not rational nor sensical to politically IMPOSE vaccination and especially ONE type of vaxx, instead of all others possible worldwide choices like sputnik one or other one for example....Science must be separated from propaganda or patriotic hymns.... This is my point... My deepest respect to you.... |
Good Morning to you Mahgister. Thank you for your welcome and well intentioned interaction. While I would normally agree with your comment about name calling, Millercarbon is about the worst offender I have seen on this forum in this regard so I have relaxed my normally high standards. In addition, his ironic utilization of the Einstein avatar would imply a level of comfort with this particular moniker.
I appreciate the link you provided. It is a very large summary of a wide range of alternative Covid-19 treatment regimes. There is a lot to digest here, so I selected the Hydroxychloroquine related group of publications to have a look at initially. There are limits to the amount of time I can spend on this stuff, so I decided to take a closer look at the 10 most recent studies (of the total 290 publications) in this HCQ subset list that they analyzed since they would seem to have the benefit of earlier knowledge with regard to HCQ treatment parameters. Sound fair? I think so.
Six of the most recent 10 HCQ publications showed summaries that stated no significant differences were found and I will not dwell on them. Statistical significance in data is a hallmark of modern science. The Civriz-Bozdag publication actually shows an increase in mortality in the HCQ treated group. The Accinelli paper studies groups that were only treated with HCQ and Azithromycin (no control groups) and concludes that the patients whose treatment with HCQ/AZT earlier in the course of the disease (0 to 3 days) do not have as poor an outcome as those whose treatment was started later in the course of their disease. With the known dangerous side effects of hydroxychloroquine, an untreated control group may well have shown even less mortality than any of the groups treated with (challenged by?) HCQ. We do not know since it was not included in the study. They also state that “there was no apparent protection among the 558 patients that received these drugs when they were already hospitalized”.
The Sawanpanyalert publication shows lower risk of a poor outcome with the antiviral Favipiravir, but also shows that Favipiravir with HCQ treatment shows a trend towards lower risk that does not meet the parameters for significance. HCQ seems to diminish the positive effect of the antiviral drug.
Finally, the first one on the list is actually a preprint of this very analysis of the 290 the papers in the list making it sort of a nested loop of data. I will not comment on it because of this, but will note that they make the comment that “While many treatments have some level of efficacy, they do not replace vaccines”
So, once again, my choice 100 times out of 100 is to get vaccinated. |
Rand Paul or Fauci?Begging to shut down or censor reflections, especially reflections which do not reject fanatically neither vaccinations or treatment protocol like mine, but ask for just that :reflections about the wise use of vaccinations and protocol treatments at the same time, speak volume about your fanatical wishes and character... You are like empty head or sheeps pressing everybody to choose one "truth", their choosen one, and only one....Reality is not so simple and is not, thanks God! for the time being only the "reality" which you wish for, sorry....Debate in society and sciences are good...Even in audio thread.... Go on with censorship which is a disease not less worse than covid at your own risk.... |
Rand Paul or Fauci? My God! How about your personal doctor? Or ask the dying unvaccinated begging for a shot and the poor doctor telling him or her it is too late. Mutatations are a natural occurrence...brilliant statement....but has nothing to do with increasing hosts which in turn could increase mutations. Please read what you are regurgitating. And speaking of intellectual vomit, "asymptomatic is a ploy". Do tell thou great conspiracy discerner. I would also posit that a significant portion of Africans live rural lives without subways, air conditioning, office jobs, routine air travel, etc. And most do not have a bottle of Hydroxychloriquil on the bedstand. Ridiculous, sophmoric, dangerous arguments are being spouted here. I would ask the moderators to shut it down. |
Banging heads about science on an audio site may not be the definition of insanity, but it is next to it in the dictionary for those willing and able to read. I forgot to say that the most pervasive insanity is sometimes the "normal" working without thinking mode and habit in any society... Freeing ouselves from the prejudice of our society is not insamity even if it mimic insanity.... Is Bouddah or Christ insane? Yes for most people they has been... Then "banging our heads in audio forum about science" or between the walls of an asylum or with friends in a coffee shop is perhaps sometimes a small interesting insanity.... I will call it life....Never banging our heads about science i will call it a greater less interesting insanity... |
Take audio advice from respected audio professionals.You are right....For sure.... We must begin here.... But which one audio professionals? Engineers ? which one of the many engineering fields? reviewers ? musicians ? acoustician? psycho acoustician? experimented audiophiles ? Take medical advice from respected medical professionals.You are right....For sure.... We must begin here.... But which one medical professionnals? Rand Paul or Doctor fauci ? Which Nurse, which doctors from which fields and from which hospitals ? After all,medical errors, little one and massive one, are one of the main proven cause of death in life....Is not it? You are spot on right for your advice tough....But we must think before choosing a doctor or an audio specialist for ourselves .. Dont you think? By the way i created my own audio system by reading about all audio and not one specialist in particular... And I was once very sick for years....No doctor figure it why... I did after 10 years of thinking and observation improving myself my own diet .... Then you are generally right about your advice but i think that personal thinking cannot be replaced by ONE specialist to whom was given the job to think for us.... Then reading audio forum or medical forum can be helpful for even audio matter or even health ...If we think by ourselves critically also.... «Take also the good seeds where they had fallen»-Groucho Marx reading Bible....🤓 A last word: there is no vast powerful conspiracy against me for sure...But what should i called a mass of convergent greed power and lobbies in agriculture and medecine and alimentation for example? If you think that this mass of convergent greed did not exist , quit even reading audio forum, you will not be able to figure it out by yourself anyway....😁😊 «Being right is good, but not enough in life....»-Anonymus Smith |
Take audio advice from respected audio professionals. Take medical advice from respected medical professionals. Exchange thoughts and ideas with anyone you choose. Avoid drawing too many conclusions without a proper data set. Then, be careful whether you are qualified to analyze the data to draw conclusions. I was joking around with an esteemed retired medical/science professional who founded one of the largest biotech companies in the world decades ago. He smiled and said to me, “be careful with your data when analyzing anything, I used to tell my research scientists that 100% of those persons who die each day once breathed oxygen. Is the breathing of oxygen correlated to their demise?” Everyone just relax. People have their minds made up by now, right or wrong. Banging heads about science on an audio site may not be the definition of insanity, but it is next to it in the dictionary for those willing and able to read. To those out there convinced of the existence of a vast conspiracy against them, who are certain that (fill in the blank) are conspiring to infect/keep you down/et al its highly likely you are not significant enough in the whole scheme of things to spend the energy necessary to create such a conspiracy. But hey, the fallout shelter builder would likely beg to differ. |
By the way i am not a scientist nor a doctor.... But the failure of science and medecine under political and lobbies pressure must force us to think more than usual... It is not unlike the audio world under the marketing pressure to upgrade instead of thinking our way through at low cost.... 😁😊 «Crazy is the new wise»- Groucho Marx 🤓 |
How do you treat someone with a low cost medical protocol when that someone is asymptomatic??There is no indication of a massive asymptomatic transmission but a possibility in a very short period of time (2 days or not much more) of pre-seymptomatic transmission essentially in household... Most transmissions are probably from symptomatic people in closed environment airborne...(hospitals for example and old people retirement house and household) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7310638/ Then instead of being in fear, we must think about simple prophylactic measure like washing and mask in closed environment but mainly also sustained simple prophylactif treatment or reinforcing immunity treatment ( vitamin D level vitamin c level zinc level etc ) Why NO reinforcing low cost immunity treatment has been declared mandatory for most? Why ONLY costly vaxx is massively mandatory NOW ? What is safer scientifically? a new rapidly unapproved experimental costly tech massively and unwisely used or a simple low cost very well known immunity reinforcing treatment about minerals and vitamin level? What is safer scientifically and rationally ,only one thing : the vaxx or the treatment? Why not the 2 used wisely ? Is it a good thing to allow the population to become a giant Petri dish for more virulent covid mutations?Mutations comes from the natural life evolution of this kind of corona viruses but the way we act can create a selective pressure like with indiscriminated forced mass vaccination that will worsen the situation...No miracles from ONLY mass vaccinations nor ONLY from drug treatment....Only the wise use of these 2 tools can help....Alas! politically driven people on any side are at worst "stupid" or at best with blinders.... https://www.geertvandenbossche.org/ |
Watch "John Prine "That's The Way That The World Goes Round" Austin, TX 1978" on YouTube
https://youtu.be/nVb-_WQCpBs |
How do you treat someone with a low cost medical protocol when that someone is asymptomatic?? Is it a good thing to allow the population to become a giant Petri dish for more virulent covid mutations? No vaccination is 100% effective, but tens of thousands of medical professionals reccomend it as prudent and necessary. And to listen to conspiracy indulging quacks is sad and a serious threat to us all. |
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Master M, how goes the battle?My room is very good now... I learned how to create the right acoustic at no cost...It takes me few years... I listen music with no more upgrading surge or creative new ideas for my system now....I dont contribute anymore to my own thread....😊 Music is so good i dont listen no more to sound....I sleepwalk in ectasy instead... This evening with Miles Davis.... A true genius.... Then no more audio battle.... I hope that your health is good and i give to you my friendly salutation and my best wishes.... |
Hey, genius, just read the last line in the abstract if you can. From one of the most respected science journals in the world. A meta-analysis of all the published data. Hydroxychloroquine treatment of Covid patients shows an INCREASE in patient mortality with no benefits. Like I said yesterday - always certain, seldom rightName calling is not cool just said someone wise...I concur... It does not take a genius to figure for ourself that Hydroxychloroquine treatment MUST be administered in the first days of the symptoms...Otherwise efficacy decrease dramatically.. It does not take a genius to understand that if the right dosage of HQC with the right complementary AMOUNT of other drugs and minerals are not administered in the first few days of the disease we can show easily that really HQC is ineffective...Like any other drug administered with the wrong dosage and without the necessary other complementary drugs and minerals in the FIRST DAYS.... It does not take a genius to figure out that Hcq dont work miraculously by itself but with many other drugs or complementary product like zinc for example...It is called a TREATMENT PROTOCOL by the group frontline doctors...There is no miraculous drug that work by itself only. against this disease...No vaccination that also work miraculously by itself alone... It does not take a genius to figure out that there exist many others LOW COST treatment in the FIRST DAYS of the disease symptoms manifestation... For example ivermectin with OTHERS complementary drugs and minerals... Here there is many meta analysis of many treatment....Even hydroxychloroquine: https://c19early.com/ In one word dont confuse "miraculous vaccines" or "miraculous drug" with a sophisticated TREATMENT PROTOCOL....Which could include also vaccination of at risk population group.... MASS vaccination mandate are stupidity....Vaccination is not.... Drug or vaccine promotion is not medecine science but marketing work at best..... Most of the times there is no miraculous drug or vaccine....There is only EARLY and sometimes alas ! LATE treatment protocol in medecine science....Vaccines included....Because wisely used in the right group of at risk people vaccines are useful..... Actual Mass vaccination is on the other hand a political stance not science....Especially when this mass vaccination is accompanied by a censorship of any low cost treatment.... |
At least he called folks genius. :-) Master M, how goes the battle? I figure folks would be fine and anyone that is informed can make up their own mind. Hand to eyes, nose, mouth or ear contact is a no no anyway. I think of that because of haz-mat training in my early 20s. 40 haz mat, BATT (refinery training) and 8 hour refresher courses from then on out. You learn to keep your hands away from your face. LOL A dust mask is a dust mask. The little mask are to keep YOU from spitting on others or others from spitting in your nose/mouth region. 6 feet suggest you can't spit any further.. :-) I say aim for the EYE. I wear glasses.. Maybe a good ear shot will get someone infected. Something else about rescue breathing for someone else, WHY aren't they breathing? In most of the places I use to work if someone went down it was hardly EVER because of poor conditioning. You had to stay in shape to work in a respirator or in a refinery. H2S, CO2, etc. Windsock direction, all kinds of stuff. Same way of thinking.. BE Careful.. Look at YOUR finger nails.. they tell you when to go sideways with the wind sock.. Theirs will be blue, your should be pink.. RUN Forest Run!! OK Jenny... Don't get bit in the Buttocks!! I was around everything BUT radioactive waste. For all I know I was around it too.. Who has a Geiger counter? 68.00 dollars on Amazon.. BTW Regards |
If any of you make it to the next Australian HiFi show in Melbourne.. I’ll buy you all a round! Also just for completeness Pfizer and Moderna are indeed mRNA vaccines but the Astra Zeneca one is a traditional vaccine like flu vaccine , polio, measles etc .. Everyone stay safe , be of good cheer and keep on listening ! |
Hey, genius, just read the last line in the abstract if you can. From one of the most respected science journals in the world. A meta-analysis of all the published data. Hydroxychloroquine treatment of Covid patients shows an INCREASE in patient mortality with no benefits. Like I said yesterday - always certain, seldom right https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-22446-z |
Politicized…But I must respect the wishes of others! I’ve had my son tested twice because of becoming sick in recent months, and this is after his complete vaccination. Paid out of pocket because I WANT rapid results. Both negatives. Have another story, one of my daughters regarding her new employment. I’m not vaccinated like I’ve said but I don’t take it lightly… I’ve already had it, immunity |
Checking a map of distribution, I saw that the predominant region with low vaccination rate is most of Africa in single digits. The issue there is primarily one of distribution and storage due to the ultralow temperature storage requirements. No, it is because malaria is endemic there, and so everyone takes HCQ. Therefore they have no need of One HCQ a week and you can go about your life as if the CCP virus never got out of the Wuhan lab. That is, you could were it not for their friends in power all over the world working to make everyone scared to death of a virus with a lower mortality rate than ordinary flu. Or heck, if you are one who thinks the "vaccine" works then why do you care? Aren’t you safe? The vax works, right?? So why care how far apart people are, or what they wear, or where they go? Alice and the Mad Hatter, Lewis Carroll himself, couldn’t follow the "logic" of the vaxxers and fear mongers here. |
Why is it so hard to respect the wishes of others??? Oh that’s right, it’s just so darn easy. It’s hard work to be cruel, takes much energy… Say one word a little off center, non intentional and you’re misunderstood. The foundation has already been laid by men before us, good men at that. Many good men of all color… Democracy is not the norm, never has been. The most intellectual people I’ve ever met, are the ones that can communicate with the softest of people and also the hardest. Yes, we love our Audio engineers… Peace The onion layers are many and so so very thick |
I'm not against anyone taking or not taking a vaccine. Stay 6 feet away and wear a mask. The first thing I do is grab my little buddy at school, walk to the car, load him in the car seat, the wife hands me hand cleaner through the window, I clean up and open the door and get in. I drop them off and their house, he gets a bath and then school work, but no paper handouts, all via computer.. It's worked so far.. On the other hand the other Grandparents BOTH got covid behind going to BARS and drinking, neither were vaccinated and STILL went out and acted like FOOLS. They did get pretty sick for 2 weeks and recovered after 6 weeks or so. Heck I don't care what people do, stay the FUC# away from me..25 years sense I been in a bar.. Then it was tonic water:-) |
