Considering the New Tekton Design Encores? AND Owners Group - Experiences/Questions

@protoss71 Yeah I copied what used to be on site a couple of years ago. Not sure how mine compare to the newest ones produced.  I do know he got rid of the midbass ports recently too. He also lowered the price from what I paid originally. 

Looking at Tekton website and your original post, I noticed some differences. Now it seems as though they are 7 inch mid bass drivers instead of 6.5, and the woofer is dropped from 11 inches to 10 inches. I hope it’s not a bait and switch, put the product out initially with high-quality drivers, get good reviews, then downgrade the drivers. And the weight has dropped from 175 pounds to 145 pounds. Hopefully it is just a refinement of the product. 

@protoss71 Great that they are shipping soon!  I've heard the EML 300BXLS can last 40k hours, but I assumed that was in a 300b circuit which makes the tube loaf at 8w.  My Allnics are Quad Parallel 300bxls SET Monoblocks require 4 pairs of 300bxls at they drive each tube at 15wpc so I figure they might not last as long since they are driven much harder.  I sold my Allnics recently and now just enjoy my Pass XA25 Amp.  It's a great match with the Encores, very SET like for a solid-state amp.  Update us when you get your Encores set up. 

Congrats! You will love them. Can't wait for your review. 

Thanks jcarcopo! Just a week after I upgraded, Tammy called to tell me the order is ready! They will be shipped today! I can’t wait! I had the money for a pair of Ulfberhts, but no way would my small room need a pair of those. The Encores are probably too big for my 17x12 room. I saw in a previous post by you, that you are concerned about the lifespan of your 300bxls’s. I have read that some are getting 40,000 hours out of their EML 300bxls’s! If my math is correct, 40,000 hours at 5 hours per day = 21 years!  Making the $900 possibly worth it. I had a pair of Sophia 300b carbons seemingly not last very long at all. I use my Woo Audio WA5 only for headphone duty (that is until I get my Encores).

@protoss71 Congrats on getting Encores. You will love them! I waited about 6 months for mine, but I knew that going in it was going to take a long time since it was a new model. Let us know when you get them how you like them. 

I had an order of Moabs is going for over three months, I came into some extra money and I decided to upgrade to a pair of encores. Wow, when you build a great product and great price the waiting list grows considerably. I’m hoping they will be my forever speakers, that is unless I move into a retirement home which the apartments are small.  I am upgrading from a pair of Thiel 2.3’s after 23 years  

sid-hoff-frenchman,
You have some fun (As well as insightful) times ahead of you given the numerous component matching/switching comparisons available to you. I believe that each separate combo is going to sound good yet notably different.

Good thing is that you really enjoy what you currently have in your system. Very curious to see what degree of change you’ll hear between the Freya and Don Sachs preamplifier when swapped. No doubt that the KT 88 amplifier when inserted is going to make its presence felt.

The Encores IMO are capable of easily revealing any differences amongst all of the component swapping that lies ahead. I think this will prove to be an exciting and fruitful endeavor for you.
Charles

@charles1dad I will certainly post my impressions and comparisons. The Don Sachs preamp will be arriving far before the amp (still in the queue, no ship date yet), so I will have time for it to settle before adding his KT-88 amp to the mix. Honestly at this point I can't even give a definitive review of the Aegirs with the Encores, or the Encores themselves really, because the Encores are still going through the break-in process. Their sound has continued to change over the last 9 days - for the better I will add. The sound has filled out, especially as the woofers and mid-bass drivers loosen. I assume those require longer breaking in time than the tweeters. Perhaps break-in also influences the overall cohesiveness. At the very least I can say that the Encores don't overload the monoblock Aegirs, unless you are blasting Taiko drum music. And they sound really good.

Once the Sachs preamp ships I will switch to a single Aegir, as his preamp doesn't have balanced XLR outs. I will then eventually compare Sachs/Aegir to Freya+/Aegir and Freya+/Aegirs.

@smodtactical I've been using SET tube amplifiers for 20 years and this is the first solid-state amp to have a beautiful enough midrange to sway me away from tubes while the added weight and heft in the bass region from the XA25's high damping factor provides a solid foundation to any music.  It's an excellent combo and I highly recommend it. Vocals are velvety smooth, string, and wind instruments sound amazingly dynamic, natural, and very real. I highly recommend this particular model over other XA amps in the line up for its unique minimalist use of 4 high output transistors per side, exceptional specifications when compared to all the other XA series, and its specific distortion makeup which, to my ears, comes closest to a SET tube amplifier. 

@jcarcopo XA25 + Encore seems like a great combo! How do you like it ??

i have only heard the double impacts, but reading about the amps used and going into shutdown, someone might want to audition electrocompaniet amps.  i have an older pair of ec aw75 dual mono amps; they're rated at 75wpc into 8 ohms, 140/4 ohms; 220/2 ohms, stable into loads <1 ohm.  but the thing about them - and about all ec amps - is the current - these amps are rated >60 amps current.  and all ec amps are like that.  and, they're considered by many as solid state gear for those who like tubes

lowest powered ec amps presently in production are the aw180 monoblocks, at 250w into 8 ohms and >100 amps current.  but you can find great deals on the used aw25/50/60/65/75/100/120/250 stereo amps.  

doug s.

Yup.  I also asked him to make me a center channel SEAS Pendragon which may be taking him extra time since he doesn't make that model any more.

Charcoal is dark gray. Mine are the newly redesigned front port-less Encores. Eric said he made the change recently for all Encores going forward. They still have the standard rear ports though. Since you ordered before me then I would guess that someone ordered dark gray Encores which got built and then they backed out.

Is charcoal black or dark grey?  I ordered just basic black on 6/27.  Oh well.
Did yours come ported or not ported?

@jsoku I ordered them on 7/21 and received them on 8/21. I got lucky with the speed. I hadn't expected them for at least another month, if not two or three. Maybe they got a cancellation for charcoal Encores and I was next on the list with those specs. Who knows...I'm not complaining though! What color did you choose?

The Freya + & Aegirs give a great sound for sure. I am going to give the Don Sachs pre-amp/amp combo a try, just to compare. I've only ever had Schiit gear and am curious to hear how the highly recommended Sachs gear compares.

sid-hoff-frenchman
Thanks for updating us that the Encores work well with the Aegirs in monoblock mode.  That's good to know.  Are you satisfied with the sound or do you have any pangs of amp-upgrade-itis yet?
Can I ask when you received your Encores?  I think you said that you placed your order about 2 weeks after I did, so hopefully that means mine will soon be on their way to me.

@sid-hoff-frenchman The Pass Lab engineer told me it was normal considering that deep bass uses 80% of the power of your amp. Sudden transients demand a lot of momentary current. My amp caps out at 10 amps current delivery. That isn't to say the impedance doesn't dip lower as this may very well be the case, but the engineer I talked to said I shouldn't be concerned and said the amp was operating normally considering the source and average load. I don't think it's impedance related because I did try an autoformer on the Encores set to 2x to raise the average impedance of the speaker to 8ohm, but this didn't prevent clipping and I lost like 3db of max volume before the protection circuit kicked in as expected due to the fact that at 8ohms my amp was only delivering half the wattage. 

@jcarcopo That's good to know. I guess then the Aegirs are performing on par with similarly powered amps. I wonder if the protection is being triggered by impedance dips, or wattage needs?

@sid-hoff-frenchman Another good one is Yim Hok-man "Poems of Thunder". That 10 minute track will put my Pass Labs XA25 into protection if I turn my DAC's volume up to -3db which, to be fair, is nearly wide open. So big Kodo Drums 🥁 really strain my amp at high volume as well. I consider this quite acceptable and normal considering it's a 50wpc Class A amplifier. Other than that one track I've not really had an issue except like twice on very high gain and dynamic recordings that I was playing way too loudly in the first place. 

Yes, I can report that the monoblock Aegirs have powered the Encores without any problem, until today. I was playing a the Taiko group Kodo's album Ibuki and had the volume up to about 85-90 DB. This is a really bass-frequency-heavy album, and the biggest impedance needs happen in the bass region. After a while the Aegirs started briefly going into protection shut down. The album was fine at lower levels, and everything else I've played the Aegirs have been fine with, even at equal volume levels. I will still try out other pre-amp and amp combos down the road, but so far so good. 

@david_ten Yes, actually all of it's specifications are superior to the more expensive XA30 and higher amplifiers.  I assume it's because he uses only 4 large power transistors per side in a slightly different way in the XA25's. 

@jcarcopo  Thanks so much. Your reasoning and choice are so very clear now. Super helpful for my understanding. As an aside, I did not realize that the XA 25 had the 'highish' damping factor that it does. 

@david_ten Of course being solid-state, there's a foundational weight and heft to the Pass Lab's XA25 in the bass region due to its 500 damping factor that accompanies its very beautiful midrange. It also only consumes 240w and emits much less heat into my new dedicated/treated sound room upstairs. The additional heat from 8x 300bxls in the Allnics forced me to put a thermostat sensor in the 20'x14'x8' room which forced the hvac to kick on constantly and made it too cold in my home. Also the AC makes a lot more vent noise upstairs as the system is in my attic which annoyed me because it obscures fine detail. Finally, the price of EML 300BXLS have increased significantly from $750 to $935 a pair with no end in sight. The practicality of retubing the amps with 4 pairs of them moving forward will be way too painful financially for me for how often I listen. I constantly had anxiety about wasting the tubes useful life when the phone rings or I'd get sidetracked and I'd forget to turn them off for hours.  I didn't sell them for sonic reasons, it was mostly just for reasons of practicality and that I actually find the XA25 to be very SET-like in sound signature. I agree with Terry London's review of them, it's pretty spot on. I was going to use the XA25 as a background music amp to spare my tubes wear and tear, I didn't expect the XA25 to replace them. 

@jcarcopo I saw your Allnic listed. What’s your primary amp for the Encores, once the Allnic sells? I'm assuming the Pass XA25. Differences between the two? Thanks.

@jsoku I’m not sure if it’s sonically advantageous to front port the midbass drivers or not. I guess there’s pros and cons to both approaches and Eric determined it’s better sonically without the front ports now. Maybe he’s altered the crossover too.

Thanks!  I did join the group a few weeks ago.  Useful--someone just posted answering a question in my mind that I had not asked (whether the Schiit Aegirs in monoblock mode would have any problems with the Encores--his experience so far was that they work with no problems--still trying to decide whether to go with Aegir or buy up to XA25--I know where you come out on that question :) ). 

I agree with you on the midrange--I think that's why I like the SEAS Pendragon's so much--very nice integrated midrange and bass, I lose some of the detail in the highs relative to my prior speakers, but since I can't fully hear the highs anyway, not surprising that the SEAS Pendragons come on top for me.  I find speakers and headphones that have a highly detailed top end (e.g, my Monitor Audios and Focal Utopia headphones) to be thin and fatiguing now--probably related to my hearing loss.

I thought the poster also stated that a new change on all Encores going forward is that they won't be ported anymore.  That's interesting--I wonder how that changes the sounds--tighter bass perhaps?

@jsoku I'm very sorry about your hearing loss buddy. This is something I worry about as I get older. I am very happy though you are getting the Encores. You are not crazy.  The very best stuff is in the midrange my friend. There's few if any speakers with a better midrange in my opinion. I can't wait until you get them bud! :-)

If any you guys haven't already found the Tekton Design Speakers Worldwide Owners Group on Facebook we have over 1000 members and it's a very friendly group, at least we try to keep it that way. Feel free to join us there for chat, questions, or just to post system picts if you want. I posted a link below. Hopefully it works.  Make sure to answer the question, especially the Rules. This filters out fake accounts. 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/135142323767796/672203223395034/?comment_id=672254006723289&notif_id=1597954035454151&notif_t=group_comment&ref=notif

I hope it works out and your wife comes around after you receive The Encores.Maybe even smile,nod her head let you know what a Mad Genius you are for ordering them

viber6,Unfortunately, my hearing loss is worse than just normal hearing loss due to aging.  Almost 10 years ago when I went to an audiologist to get my hearing checked), the tests revealed that I have accelerated high frequency hearing loss starting at about 6000 HZ and with an accelerating decline for higher frequencies.  I still am waiting for a good audiophile headphone solution which can boost selectively boost the high frequencies but leave other frequencies as-is!
As to your specific question, I'm afraid I reproduced as best as I could remember Eric's specific words and don't know much more than that.  He didn't describe/contrast the speakers by referencing frequencies.  He  drew a parallel between the Encores and the SEAS Pendragons which I already have and like very much.  I am guessing he was saying the Moabs were like the live sound of the non-SEAS Pendragons, but since I haven't heard the Encores, non-SEAS Pendragons, or the Moabs, any such comparisons would basically be meaningless to me.  I can say that the SEAS Pendragons have a more full-bodied sound than the Monitor Audio speakers that I was coming from--when I had better hearing, I recall that those speakers had a more delicate high frequency sound than the SEAS Pendragons, but with my hearing loss, they sound more lifeless than the SEAS Pendragons, which have a better mid-rage, bass, and have a more coherent sound.  Since I was leaning towards the Encores anyway due to their smaller size, that was enough for me to take the plunge.

My wife thinks I am crazy to spend $7,000 on the Encores without ever hearing them in person, but I wanted to experience a flagship speaker before my deteriorating hearing was at a point where I could no longer tell the difference.

jsoku,
All of us have some HF hearing loss due to aging, noise exposure, etc.  Most don't realize it.  Forgive me, I am a little confused about what Eric said about the difference between the Encore and Moab.  "He described the Encores having a fuller more refined sound like the SEAS Pendragons' sound signature type, whereas the MOABs emphasized the "live" sound signature type that Tekton is known for."  Does the "live" sound have more HF, making the Moab a brighter sound with more HF, and the Encore having more bass and fullness with less HF?  If this is correct, than I would think the Moab would help you compensate for HF hearing loss, unless you want a more laid back, mellow sound.

@coot Yes, I only have 2 digital sources I switch between and I prefer the sound quality running source-direct from my dac. 

@jcarcopoAre you running the XA25 sans preamp?

@squeak_77_king I'll let management know 😁 

I meant do not use the tweeter adjustment binding posts located higher-up on the speaker.  You can biwire the speaker to the same amp. You can not biamp the speaker to 2 separate amps to the 2 bottom pairs of jacks. You can use the 2 bottom pairs of jack for biwire only though. 

The reason is because the top and bottom jacks on the bottom of the speaker are both wired to the entire speaker. You will short your amps out by biamping these 2 pairs of inputs, but bi-wiring with one amp is fine.  There's no example of anyone using the much higher located tweeter adjustment input jacks, that I know of. You are more than welcome to ask Eric directly if you so wish, but he's very busy and previous requests have gone unanswered.  

@jcarcopo I'm curious - why not use both bottom and top binding posts?

Also, how do the resistor pots work?

@ceaglek2782 There’s no Owner’s manual. Just make sure you use the very bottom binding posts and you should be fine in terms of hooking them up. Do not biamp them, they are only bi-wireable to my knowledge.

If you have further questions please let me know.

Can someone share the owners manual for the Tekton Encore? I snagged a used pair, and I haven't Tekton hasn't shared a manual yet.

Thank you!

@ditusa I own the Pass Labs XA25 and I love it. It’s the only solid-state amp that comes extremely close to a SET tube amplifier and it drives the Encores quite well. ☺ It sounds wonderful, especially in the midrange. It's a very special solid-state amplifier. I am very impressed with it. You will love it! 

@ JCARCOPO I know you like SET-300b tube amps.*LOOK*@ the pass lab's, XA25! amp,It mimics, a SET 300b tube circuit?.And yes it is *ss*..I think, the sound is not so as* tube's* or* transistor's*, but maybe the circuit? I do not have a xa25 amp.I do not know,what the amp sound's, like.My buddy say's, the midrange?. But i will be trying,one in my rig.25-watts will give me, a in room,SPL of 113 Db with 10Db peaks @ my seat @13'.Thats why, i don't,wast my time ,on high power amps.If the first watt is bad.I do not want 99- more..All so the *xa25 amp* will handel the speakers,you have,the,(ENCORES), resistance/impedance better? It runs class A @25watts.Lots of heat.Like 300b tube'sThe heat of my amps,is not a concern my amps,are in the cellar,below the speakers..Biamping the the (ENCORES) is a road to go down.

 (I met nelson in 1975,at Tech Hi Fi when he was in(Providence,RI).We spoke about circuits.not tube's or transistor's.Nelson is a* thinker*His work show's that.In the 1960's jbl try it with the *T-circuit amp*.*SS* to combat the *ss* "BAD SOUND"at that time.Whats new now... .(As nelson will say, whats new under the *SUN*.

@millercarbon Thanks for clarifying. I knew I was on the right path, but I'm glad you clarified this for me. 😉 

It's a 10 to 1 ratio with wattage anyway. It takes 1000w to effectively double the output of 100w amplifier in spl. So even with 50w you need 500w just to double the perceived spl. At least that's how it's been explained to me. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Power to volume is logarithmic, but not quite that much. Doubling the power is only 3dB louder. Double three times- 3, 6, 9dB- you're talking 8 times the power to go 9dB louder. The ten to one you're thinking of is probably 10dB takes ten times the power. That one is true. 

Another factor is "double the perceived spl" that one is pretty subjective. 3dB is only a little louder, but a lot of people would probably agree 10dB is twice as loud. So that may also be where your 10 to 1 comes from.
Either way, based on what I am hearing from my Moabs its a slam dunk that Encores are super easy to drive and sound amazing.

@ JCARCOPO i am happy that you like the encores as i stated i did not what to hijack the post i do not what to argue.what i was saying is most speaker company are miss leading in there numbers.your right 15watts is all you need.i can’t used more then 5-watts.@my seat 13’ the spl is 106 Db.but @1watt its great.your art audio diavolo SET-300b tube amps are great.that 1-watt in that amp is what i live for in audio.but it is more then just spl? you know that. the jbl i use are two/way.the $2500 i paid for them.i have not found better for what they sound like and cost i found better the jbl everest but at $60,000? if you found audio happiness with *encores*thats the audio (grail).don’t stop until you you drink from the silver cup.why are you reading this? GO listen to the (ENCORES) over and out.

@charles1dad Charles I feel like a heretic buying the XA25! It’s the first solid-state amp I’ve owned that I actually was intrigued with sonically within a few seconds of hearing the vocals and midrange play even while it was cold right out of the box. The gestalt was very jarring. My preconceived notions of solid-state are forever altered. Pass has devoted so much of his time to his First Watt amps and he sneaks this XA25 amp into his line up, which is nothing like the rest of the XA .8 series which use many transistors and have actually worse specifications. The utter simplicity of the XA25 along with it’s truly single ended circuit seems to be winning me over. I had 2 people suggest it to me whose opinions I value and so I decided to take the plunge and try it just to prove them wrong, but I am very pleased with it. Terry London’s Review mirrors my own sentiments regarding this amp being built entirely around the midrange and that it’s as close to SET like I’ve ever heard.

@ditusa I drove my Encores to 94db peaks and 90db continuous spl from 10ft away with only 13 pc not 8wpc when using my Art Audio Diavolo.  Tom Willis installed the larger power transformer modification to support a 300bxls tube. Rather than argue with you, I will only say I did it and it sounded fine, even the bass.  I now own Allnic A6000 Quad Parallel SET Monoblocks which I run with only one 300bxls at 15wpc currently in the summer months and with up to 4 300bxls to produce 60wpc in the winter months.  The thing I notice is that at my normal listening level of 85db I don't need more than 15wpc anyway. I only moved up to Allnics because I had upgraditus and always wanted to own a more powerful pair of SET monoblocks and I love the EML 300BXLS tube.

@sid-hoff-frenchman I did own a pair of Nord 700wpc/4ohm One Up SE Ncore Class D Monoblocks ($4k) for awhile. They sounded alright, but absolutely nothing sounds like a good tube SET amp to me (I'm very biased about this so take that into consideration), except maybe the XA25 coming in as a close 2nd.  I thought having the Nords would be good for when I watch TV/MOVIE or just to save my tubes from wear when I am not critical listening.

I use a Luxman AS-55 Amp/Speaker Switcher to switch between tube and solid-state amps in my system.  Now, did having all that overhead make a difference?  Yeah you can blow your eardrums out, but most realistic listening levels are achieved at much more pedestrian wattage levels. The XA25 produces 50 watts into 4ohm at .01% distortion in pure class A and has reserves to go much further.  Most amplifiers are at 1% distortion at their rated power.

It's a 10 to 1 ratio with wattage anyway.  It takes 1000w to effectively double the output of 100w amplifier in spl.  So even with 50w you need 500w just to double the perceived spl.  At least that's how it's been explained to me. Please correct me if I am wrong.  All that being said, the Parasound pairs nicely with Tekton.  Eric loves pairing them together at shows and events.  You really can't go wrong with them.

@sid-hoff-frenchman My previous Tektons were the SEAS Pendragons.  Back in 2013, I called Eric to inquire about trying out his Pendragon speakers which were getting a fair amount of rave press at the time for their "live" sound.  I explained to Eric that I wasn't really an audiophile and I have some mild high frequency hearing loss, and I wanted to try out his Pendragon speakers thinking that the "live" dynamic sound signature might appeal to me and my hearing problems.  Eric suggested I try out the SEAS Pendragons instead which was very new at the time, explaining that he thought its more linear sound signature might be better than the Pendragons for my hearing issues.  I took his suggestion and I've enjoyed the SEAS Pendragons since then, but every year thereafter have been watching with dismay and envy as Tekton launched a bewildering array of critically acclaimed speaker designs, so I decided to make an upgrade purchase this year.
I settled on the Encores for much the same reason as you.  I wanted to get one of the Tekton flagships but the Ulfs are simply too big for my listening room which is about 12X20 with low ceilings.  Moabs I could barely fit, but they would be really be pushing it too.  I didn't want to get any of the others for fear that I'd be itching to upgrade again in a few years.  I called Eric and asked him what he thought for me between the Encores and Moabs.  Eric said that if I liked the SEAS Pendragons, the Encores might be a better fit for me than the MOABs.  He described the Encores having a fuller more refined sound like the SEAS Pendragons' sound signature type, whereas the MOABs emphasized the "live" sound signature type that Tekton is known for.  
Eric is also building me a SEAS Pendragon center channel so I can move my SEAS Pendragons out to my home theater to replace some Monitor Audio fronts and center which have decent high frequency sound but the midrange is not as good as the SEAS Pendragons so moving them in there is an upgrade to the home theater as well.

@SEDOND- the speakers are 4ohm.right..so if they drop to 2 ohm? that is 4 watts that is how they get 96 Db @ 2.83 volts sensitivity @ 1meter.that is ,why i said 3/4 watts.so this means the sensitivity is*less* right not *more*.and your right. when you said my speaker would be 98Db sensitivity. but they are not .they are 96 Db sensitivity @ 1watt @ 1meter .they are 8 ohms. they do not drop *below* 6 ohms true 8 ohms. the -op- speakers are a true 4 ohms. they do not drop below 2 ohms? that is why i said 90Db.not 93 Db i said my speakers are 3% efficiency they are.so the -op- speakers are about .5% efficiency? that is why i said miss leading.all so they do not tell you what frequency they sweep for sensitivity.-500Hz or 1000Hz or 2000Hz? jbl sweeps 100Hz to 500Hz sensitivity # is lower but efficiency is higher. the -op- said he call schiit audio.ask about the aegir amp. they told him.it don’t like 2ohm loads. i bought the same amp. they said what speakers do you have i said jbl 4435 monitor. they said your fine.that is what i mean by sensitivity is not efficiency.i am not saying to buy 4435. when you look at the 4435 manual they do not miss lead. i do not what to hijack the -op- i wish the best.the -op-has a great 8-watt amp it needs high efficiency speakers jbl is the only speaker company i know. that gives efficiency rating on there monitor.if the-op- asked tekton the efficiency on the encores thats the? i do not know all.i hope sum facts are corrected.