Thanks very much GeoffKait...I appreciate your explanation and it seems to me very clear....
I use a grid of stones connected by cable and with many batteries+magnet nodes like a passive grid parallel to the normal audio grid(speakers+dac+amp) and the impact is astounding , do you have an explanation why this passive grid(stones+batteries+magnets) work?
Last night and early this morning while posting on Agon I was using my split screen tuning up a system on the other side of the world. I mentioned this here, I think maybe on this thread, don’t recall will have to look. While folks here were saying this can’t happen type of thing and "schooling me", way over in Asia here’s what I was getting back from a listener in real time.
I copied some notable posts for you.
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Yes yes yes sound so much more better!!!! More body more girth more bass. Wow damm this is huge! Difference is huge!!!! There better coherence to each note !! Yes they just need more wood more resonance this is truly a musical instrument. This is definately a new learning experience. Lol i feel like a kid !!! This it’s so crazy the change is huge now. Lol huge stage!!!!! I dropped the volume down by 2dB. This is crazy that attack and dynamics is perfect!!! The splash of cymbals is life like crazy good!!! Lol im lierally having goosebumps moment here !!! Yes this is a very different listening experience im getting now. Very involving and the presence is good. Beyond any thing in high end audio! The sound is very robust yet large and its dynamic swings is very good. I used it for jazz,rock and vocals and they just sound fantastic. Its more 3D and this time it fill the whole room front to back. It sounds big lol!! once i have got the full picture on your speakers with the platforms in and am able to sell the Arcs and sonus for a good price lol!! Theres no way the sonus can get this kind of sound its so lively and realistic. Im gonna go all out with this setup theres no need to look back too much of goodness here in the tune than in HEA lol!!!
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There was a lot more to the conversation but I wanted to give you a feel for what listeners go through converting from HEA to Tuning. Above were his words not mine. Last night we happened to be talking about the speakers, but there are other conversations about going from the ARC to a $300.00 unit.
What I’ve been saying the last few years "Is" happening in our hobby. Listeners (very top of the line listeners) are moving to variable tuning systems. These are serious listeners with no budget restraints. They purchased their dream systems and took them as far as they could to realize it’s not far enough. This is when they contact me and I work with them from the view point of how audio works and how they can get the sound they want. I don’t throw theory at them, and they do the work on their own without me being there most of the time. I don’t lead them by whispering in their ear, I simply make them the tools and guide them through the tuning. They tell me what they are hearing and I show them how to tune their setup. Most convert to a better setup while selling off their HEA components and speakers (their choice and idea).
This has always been very exciting for me to watch and now even more so because of the internet.
mahgister104 posts03-18-2019 2:57pmThanks very much GeoffKait...I appreciate your explanation and it seems to me very clear....
I use a grid of stones connected by cable and with many batteries+magnet nodes like a passive grid parallel to the normal audio grid(speakers+dac+amp) and the impact is astounding , do you have an explanation why this passive grid(stones+batteries+magnets) work?
>>>>I used to have “grids of stones” unconnected by cable and without magnets or batteries with excellent results. After mapping the entire 3D space of the room I was able to identify locations in that 3D space where sound pressure levels were more than 6 dB higher than the average sound pressure in the room, reflection points on wall, standing waves, etc. where xtals would have a high probability of success. At one time, in fact, I had so many crystals in the room, have built up the number over a long period of time, that you would only allow someone in the room if he agreed to be blindfolded. Loose lips sink ships. 💋
As I have intimated elsewhere I’m a big fan of magnets for specific audio applications. That is a long story that I’ll save for another day.
Ok ...Thanks for your observations,that makes sense...But You dont explain to me why stones connected with batteries+magnets act the way they act on the sound … I have experimented with that for the last year and the results are so great I am curious the reason why and you seems one of the few people who understand something about stones in audio...
geoffkait14,365 posts03-19-2019 6:38amReverse piezoelectric effect is probably the operating principle.
Thanks Geoffkait… This is food for my thinking...If I understand you the stones " filters" the EM of my interconnected audio gear by transforming a part of the distortion cause by the interactive EMF induced resonance in heat...Then the stones placed along the main electrical line of my house act in the same manner: by piezo-electrical reverse effect? They "filters" by absorbing a portion of the electrical field and transforming that into heat ?
Thanks for your time I want to understand this effect, that was eyes opening for me with my audio hobby more than any purchase and more than any upgrade...
Not sure I go along with your detective work. Radio frequencies, like light, are not affected by magnetic materials or by charged materials. Photons, which comprise radio frequencies, have no charge. So, crystals by themselves or “charged crystals” would not make them RFI/EMI attractors or absorbers.
Thank you Geoffkait for your informed observation,for sure you are certainly right...I will be more cautious in my explanations and think more in term of piezoelectricity...The effect is so audibly evident that I had looked for the beginning of an explanation...
geoffkait14,385 posts03-20-2019 6:54amNot sure I go along with your detective work. Radio frequencies, like light, are not affected by magnetic materials or by charged materials. Photons, which comprise radio frequencies, have no charge. So, crystals by themselves or “charged crystals” would not make them RFI/EMI attractors or absorbers.
@select-hifi, how do you justify saying "there are no better products" than Townsend isolators? What else have you tried? Have you tried Stacore or Vibraplane for example?
I am not knocking Max Townsends designs, I am sure they are very good but to say there is nothing else to compare, is unjustified.
Currently we are testing an air spring/slate platform/ Ingress cup and ball set up which is giving very good results. Ingress footers are now available through us in the UK.
This s a great post...I'm really a novice trying to better understand the intricacies of damping and isolation, etc. My takeaway is that there's no one solution, but rather a combination of solutions dependent upon one's system and environment. A lot is devoted to reducing component internal vibration, which makes sense to me because its the closest to the signal path, sometimes actually in the path.
So does room acoustic treatment come into play, in terms of reducing airborne vibration that can find its way into the audio signal? Can this vibration enter the cable or component and disrupt or alter the audio signal?
Probably a really stupid question, but like I said, I'm trying to learn first - spend later.
I have roller bearings by both Ingress Engineering and Symposium Acoustics, as well as Townshend Audio Seismic Pods. Roller bearings provide good isolation in all planes but vertical, in which they act as not isolators, but couplers. The Seismic Pods are very effective in all planes, a great product imo. Available in many load-specific versions, around $100/pod.
I spent a good portion of my professional life dealing with the, sometimes catastrophic, effects of vibration in rotating industrial machinery. Aside from out of balance, many of the same problems with many of the same solutions as involved with audio - looseness and resonance - excited by internal and external forces including frequencies, resonate frequencies and their harmonic and sub-harmonic frequencies with solutions being accomplished through tightening, dampening, isolating, or coupling. Generally solutions in audio are a matter of working individually with each component and does not/should not have to cost thousands of $$$. While I agree with the importance of eliminating vibration and resonance in components, I also agree with what some others have said here - sometimes things (dampening, coupling, etc. etc.) can go to far, leaving everything sounding dry and sterile. I've never heard a live performance that sounded sterile. The world is full of harmonics and resonance - just gotta to know where to draw the line, to help your system produce something that sounds like music.....Jim
My townsend seismic sink is a superb anti-vibration device for my VPI TNT VI. For all my other equipment, I am using Stillpoints of various sizes based on how I perceive the benefit (Ultra minis are often better than larger units depending on the equipment). I have 11 sets of Stillpoints. Otherwise, I would have chosen the latest versions of Townsend seismic products which are more expensive and non-hydraulic (air bladder) any longer.
To get the best results with roller bearing isolators its best to use injunction with a spring of some kind. This may be an air, magnetic or mechanical spring.
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