Component isolation


Let’s say you’re going to add isolation feet to a component with no moving parts, such as a preamp, phono stage, DAC, amp, tuner, etc. 

Which one is most critical to the extent would get your attention first? 
zavato

Showing 7 responses by michaelgreenaudio

Hi zavato

All audio parts are moving. Audio itself is motion as it interacts with the four fundamental forces. This why I like to say vibratory tuning instead of isolation. On this forum you’re probably going to see 4 camps.

1) vibratory tuning

2) springs

3) dampening

4) mass loading

The reason I start my post this way is because it’s easy to lump these together if you are not very experienced in "voicing" your audio signal.

When you start down the vibratory control road one of the first things you’re going to learn is "your audio chain is interconnected". I’m not talking about wire, I’m talking about the Audio Code (audio signal) itself. What you do to one part of your system affects the whole. It affects the whole, because the audio code is a continuum of motion (force interaction). If you look up the "four fundamental forces" it breaks this down. In other words, you’re not so much treating a component as much as you are treating the actual audio signal traveling through the component. If you look at your system as a series of conduits connected carrying the audio signal it’s easier to manage the sound, and that’s what you’re trying to do "manage the sound" (vibration).

There’s a few tips I’d recommend thinking about. First, when you dampen vibrations you’re also dampening part of the audio signal. At first listen you might think things are tighter sounding but after you play a few recordings you will discover you have selectively removed part of the music content and the system will sound strained (smallish squeezed) on some recordings. Second with dampening, what ever your using to dampen with, this material’s character will be introduced to the audio code. This holds true with the AC, electronic audio signal and your acoustics. In audio the phrase "you are what you eat" is exactly what happens. Everything you use as a material with your system adds to the chemistry of the sound you hear.

Another tip. Low mass frees the sound high mass squeeze the sound. The more weight and compressed mass your system has the more squeezed the signal will sound. The lighter mass you have, the more open the sound will be. Both of these can be good or bad depending on how you use them or what you want to hear. Most audio systems to me sound very squeezed so I get rid of as much of the weight and mass that I can to start with. From that point I apply variable tuning to parts of the conduits using controlled mechanical transferring as a means of adjusting the signal.

Others like Geoff Kait will use spring (isolation). He and I kind of have a difference in the absolutes of the term isolation but we both believe in springs, we both use springs. If Geoff comes up he’ll explain his idea on spring control.

So these are just some basics to tuning your mechanics up. Main thing is to keep in mind that the signal is made up of fundamentals and harmonics. Squeeze these harmonics too much and you will squeeze the sound, open them up too much and your sound will become mostly air. Finding that balance can be done to give you a general sound or you can even tune per recording if you want to go that extreme (you’d be surprised how many do).

My suggestion is to explore both tuning a springs and lean away from dampening. However the more experience you gain on your own and from others will help you make your own method work for you. I've used all of the above because I tune for many people besides my own listening.

Michael Green

bdp24

"Components should simply reproduce the sound of instruments (and voices) contained in recordings, having or adding no sound of their own."

Wouldn’t that be nice! Or our ears, or our rooms, or our brains, or our locations, or our planet on it’s revolving. Or our orbit...and on and on it goes.

the variables buddy, don't leave out the variables

mg

Kind of a fun thread for me, cause while posts are going up I am also on my split screen walking people through tuning their components in real time.

mg

Hi Terry9

you said

"Michael, you say that," ... when you dampen vibrations you’re also dampening part of the audio signal." In my system, parasitic resonances (all resonances are a form of vibration) such as those excited in the tonearm, are not part of the audio signal. So I damp them out. Don't think you can have thought this through."

As I've said above, I'm a do it guy. If your ears have given you a different result of course you have to be true to your ears.

mg

Hi millercarbon, thanks!

When I got into the HEA part of this industry I did so with some good advice from the guys who I worked with in the studios and on the road. I was known among some for coming in, doing my thing and quietly staying off to the side while the sessions went on not getting involved in the debates, credits, money or theory building. The advice was "never change that rule of mine". It's served my goals well and has given me valued friendships and a clear understanding of what it takes to become a long term standard.

We have a wonderful industry and hobby, all the way from instruments to the ear, and I have tried to be in every position of "Doing" I could have so I can be a forever student of this passion. The only way I knew to do this was jump in, do, and learn for myself without being influenced by talk minus the doing. There's a completeness about doing something for ourselves and if we do so in time the truth makes it's way to us. It's a process that may happen in a moment or one that may take a lifetime but truth itself is never false, and the learning of it is truly a matter of doing.

So for me, when people say that's not the case, can't be true, he's full of it, wow that made an amazing difference or whatever suits their proclamation, I know if they have really done for themselves they know. And as important, if they haven't done for themselves they may never know what has been waiting for them to yet be discovered.

Audio is not a world of assumptions, neither is audio recording and playback. Audio is a science that we will either do or not do.

Again thanks, it means a lot to me. Not that I was right or wrong, but that you saw I was a student of sound just like you with the same goal and passion! all my best

mg

I'm sure as time goes on some of those Tunees will be coming here to share their experiences. When they do you can ask them directly. As for me I'm here to help them get started on their journey and design tools, where they take it is up to their own passions bdp24. While I listened with both JGH and HP we spent our time tuning and often making fun of the HEA. So my take on my friends may have also been different from yours.

as always, appreciating your points of view even if they do differ from my experiences

MG

Last night and early this morning while posting on Agon I was using my split screen tuning up a system on the other side of the world. I mentioned this here, I think maybe on this thread, don’t recall will have to look. While folks here were saying this can’t happen type of thing and "schooling me", way over in Asia here’s what I was getting back from a listener in real time.

I copied some notable posts for you.

_____________________________________________

Yes yes yes sound so much more better!!!! More body more girth more bass. Wow damm this is huge! Difference is huge!!!! There better coherence to each note !! Yes they just need more wood more resonance this is truly a musical instrument. This is definately a new learning experience. Lol i feel like a kid !!! This it’s so crazy the change is huge now. Lol huge stage!!!!! I dropped the volume down by 2dB. This is crazy that attack and dynamics is perfect!!! The splash of cymbals is life like crazy good!!! Lol im lierally having goosebumps moment here !!! Yes this is a very different listening experience im getting now. Very involving and the presence is good. Beyond any thing in high end audio! The sound is very robust yet large and its dynamic swings is very good. I used it for jazz,rock and vocals and they just sound fantastic. Its more 3D and this time it fill the whole room front to back. It sounds big lol!! once i have got the full picture on your speakers with the platforms in and am able to sell the Arcs and sonus for a good price lol!! Theres no way the sonus can get this kind of sound its so lively and realistic. Im gonna go all out with this setup theres no need to look back too much of goodness here in the tune than in HEA lol!!!

________________________________________________

There was a lot more to the conversation but I wanted to give you a feel for what listeners go through converting from HEA to Tuning. Above were his words not mine. Last night we happened to be talking about the speakers, but there are other conversations about going from the ARC to a $300.00 unit.

What I’ve been saying the last few years "Is" happening in our hobby. Listeners (very top of the line listeners) are moving to variable tuning systems. These are serious listeners with no budget restraints. They purchased their dream systems and took them as far as they could to realize it’s not far enough. This is when they contact me and I work with them from the view point of how audio works and how they can get the sound they want. I don’t throw theory at them, and they do the work on their own without me being there most of the time. I don’t lead them by whispering in their ear, I simply make them the tools and guide them through the tuning. They tell me what they are hearing and I show them how to tune their setup. Most convert to a better setup while selling off their HEA components and speakers (their choice and idea).

This has always been very exciting for me to watch and now even more so because of the internet.

Michael Green