I would like to start a thread, similar to Orpheus’ jazz site, for lovers of classical music. I will list some of my favorite recordings, CDs as well as LP’s. While good sound is not a prime requisite, it will be a consideration. Classical music lovers please feel free to add to my lists. Discussion of musical and recording issues will be welcome.
I’ll start with a list of CDs. Records to follow in a later post.
Berlioz: Symphonie Fantastique. Chesky — Royal Phil. Orch. Freccia, conductor. Mahler: Des Knaben Wunderhorn. Vanguard Classics — Vienna Festival Orch. Prohaska, conductor. Prokofiev: Scythian Suite et. al. DG — Chicago Symphony Abbado, conductor. Brahms: Symphony #1. Chesky — London Symph. Orch. Horenstein, conductor. Stravinsky: L’Histoire du Soldat. HDTT — Ars Nova. Mandell, conductor. Rachmaninoff: Symphonic Dances. Analogue Productions. — Dallas Symph Orch. Johanos, cond. Respighi: Roman Festivals et. al. Chesky — Royal Phil. Orch. Freccia, conductor.
All of the above happen to be great sounding recordings, but, as I said, sonics is not a prerequisite.
Haydn had a great feel for melody. Check out his Op. 71 Quartets, the "Emperor" in particular , as achingly beautiful melodies as ever were written . Or his Lark" Op .64(No.5) which along with No.6 are to die for .
toleftears;
To start with , Bruckner 8 /Gunter Wand/ Berlin Phil . on RCA Absolutely fabulous with a German Conductor the Germans hold in high esteem. Wand did perhaps an even better 8 with the North German RSO on RCA . Never can make up mind and don't try very hard .
OK, so the natural "progression" (backwards) from Mahler is to Bruckner. Over the years, here's what I've acquired based on a whole variety of recommendations.
Number of CDs clearly reflects preferences among the ten.
I've heard Celibidache in concert, and am surprised to find I don't have any recordings of his. What the "best" interpretation of any of these that I'm missing?
The six Hayden Quartets are amazing. Mozart really had him down.
Technically, Hayden was a master. Mozart, no slouch either, had the gift of melody(-think Eine Kleine Nachtmusik). I always wonder why Haydn couldn't write piano concertos as good as Mozart? His horn concerto is unbelievable.
I love Mozart because to my ear after any of his works it seems every note could not be anything or anywhere else .A musical law of gravity so to speak .
I have always thought Haydn was fully his equal but because the seams show at times he is seen as a great composer but not quite up to Mozart . In fact in his religious music , notably " The Creation ", the more pious Haydn IMO outshines Mozart .
To me they are just the opposite side of one of God’s coins .Their true friendship is witness .
Just listening to three symphonies (35,36,38) by the miracle that is Mozart. Whereas, arguably, Haydn may be the better symphonist, and unarguably, Mozart’s piano concertos are more inspired, his symphonies are gems of creation, perhaps with a greater divine spark than are Haydn’s, although not as clever. How do you feel?
To get back to Mahler. I have to admit to out and out disliking him at first. Much like the great Decca classical producer John Culshaw who worked with the greatest conductors on some of the most famous recordings who refused to produce records of his music because listening to it made him ill. I am not making this up.
Through time my feelings have changed and though still not one of my favorite composers may I recommend one of the all time great recordings if excellent mono is acceptable? Dimitri Mitropoulos and Minneapolis doing the Titan on Masterworks Heritage. If you have any interest in classical symphonic music at all this must be heard. Just maybe not on an audiophile system if you have a second one more forgiving of older mono recordings.
gdnrbob, that’s mandatory in Finnish Schools which are # 1 in the world . Were about where we are, about# 28, 30 years ago, but music, no homework and a few other like things have made Finnish kids LOVE school , you love, you learn !
Also, in Finland it’s harder to get into the Primary Education School than in the Medical School . Only their very best they have for the kids .
It's too bad that children aren't given a chance to listen to live music when they are young. I think it would foster a greater appreciation of what music is and how it got there. How I came to love Classical is beyond me. Like rvpiano, it 'spoke' to me, despite my parents thinking I was nuts. B
As a trained musician, who started studying piano at the age of six, I can tell you that music is something that is perceived not as much by training, as by listening. I separate the two. I started LISTENING to all kinds of music as a pre-teen, not just piano repertoire. Not to be boastful, but that set me apart from the majority of Juilliard pianists who perceived music through their fingers. At many Juilliard student recitals, little in the way of musical communication was present. (That was years ago, the standards may be higher today.) The point is that music is an aural art, not a technical one when it comes to appreciation. Even musical analysis, which can help you “understand” the music, cannot tell you how to you FEEL it. There are music professors who have orgasms over the intricacies of musical structure, who often don’t get the point which, of course is COMMUNICATION. So, I feel on equal footing with those who love music but don’t have musical training.
Since music is an emotional instinct that sounds pretty normal to me .
As I said , my technical is small but after attending over 2,000 concerts in last 50 years you get a fairly good idea what’s what . I’ll listen to anybody who plays with passion , and passion can be cold, hot and in between , sometimes a college kid in senior recital is more moving than a world-class jet-set musician who Is mailing it in Twin-Cities .
Not a knock on them , they don’t control the music business etc .
schubert, I expected my admission about lack of musical training would be well understood. I don't have much basis for technical evaluation in comparing performances. So I rely on emotional reaction, along with memories of other performances of the same music which is where personal preferences come to play. Offered just to be clear.
As a casual and mediocre musician (piano and classical singing) you appreciate the great artists even more and become a lot more critical of the rest. This is bad since it change your focus from music appreciation to being a critic and those two do not go together unless you hit nirvana.
I've heard Pollini in Symphony hall in Chicago playing
Schumann's "Kreisleriana" in 2001 and that was a Nirvana moment. Also heard Hvorostovsky sing the "
Cortigiani, vil razza dannata" from Rigoletto with piano accompaniment also in the Chicago Symphony hall. Another nirvana moment. These moments are the exception and not the norm.
I think that is why I enjoy rock, pop and jazz a lot as well, since I'm critical but not from a classical music training back ground.
Thanks pryso, it sounds funny but it’s da truth or close to it anyway .
Re; no musical training . In Berlin my neighbor was a player in one of the best German orchestras , the Berlin R.I.A.S . My wife was in a near mother-daughter relationship with her. As we lived only 3 blocks from their hall I often was privy to conversations of many players in her house . One said to me , "I envy you advanced listeners , I'm too busy listening to how my part is being played to just enjoy the music , "
schubert, of course I've heard "the big guy" perform Nessum Dorma and it was enjoyable. But he didn't tingle my emotional fibers as Bjorling's version does. I say that as someone without any musical training but as an active listener since I was about 14, and that was decades ago!
I feel the same about some of Uchida's performances. Few musicians bring the same emotional response for me as her playing.
BTW, as an audio hobbyist I loved your comment "I have the greatest 15K system in the world and it only cost me 45K !" I may have to quote that among a few friends. ;^)
Amen , gdnrbob. I once sat about 20 ft from Uchida playing Schubert at the Marlboro Festival . Her back was to me and it was not a warm day , but her shirt got soaking wet with effort on D960 B flat . At or near the top of my list for both Schubert and Mozart .
Coming to this discussion late... Pianists that I love that I don't think have been mentioned, Martha Argerich and Mitsiko Uchida, nothing like a woman's touch. I wish I could have heard Clara Schumann play her husband's piano concerto. Actually, there is a recording of Argerich/Rostropovich playing the A minor that is one of my favorites. I bought the album and need to have it converted to digital as it hasn't been converted- I don't know why.... B
I had a "trick" I used to play on guys ,and gals, over to listen to my system . As you know , Pavarotti made a career out of" Nessum Dorma" late in life. I would play the big guys version and everyone, including me, was in awe of the great force of nature . Few minutes later I would put in a CD of Bjorling singing his version and me saying , that was how you sing loud and this is how you sing good . Usual reply after Bjorling was "Oh !" Not knocking the big guy , I felt like my brother died when he passed .
I am using the Belles 350A amplifier, with which I replaced the 150A (I liked better) and, unfortunately, can’t return (a $1500 loss.). Doesn’t nearly match up to my NuForce monoblocks. I’m sure there’s nothing wrong with the Belles per se, but it’s a poor match for my system, most noticeably lacking in bass. I had audio Nirvana for many years with a perfectly balanced system and am very spoiled for anything less.
@rvpiano Didn't you get a Belles amp that you liked? I thought that worked out OK. I'm already anticipating the release of the new integrated, the Belles Virtuoso.
Took up clarinet at age 11. Played in all sorts of school orchestras (very musical school). Nothing like experiencing it "from the inside". Continued on in scratch bands through college. Friend at high school--father had a "fancy" stereo for back then, expensive Garrard deck, etc. etc., played me Mahler for the first time. A revelation. Soon after heard a series of broadcasts of Bernstein performances. Though by then I'd already started collecting Solti on Decca.
Although my first love is late Romantic/decadent big symphonic movement, I've recently completed a thorough exploration of Stylus Fantasticus, from early Italian origins through Bohemians et al. In many ways I find it more enjoyable than the "predictability" of the high Baroque (Bach, Handel, Telemann, Vivaldi, etc.).
schubert and kef, I didn't "get into" classical music until college, but that did not include opera. Over the years a few friends were opera buffs so I was exposed to it. I then developed some enjoyment for the music itself and added several opera overture recordings to my collection. But I still didn't care for most of the singing.
Then a couple of decades ago I happened upon an RCA CD, "Opera Goes to the Movies". As you might guess, that included arias by several well known singers which had been used in movie soundtracks. One of those was Bjorling performing "Nessun Dorma". That still gives me chills whenever I listen so obviously he became a favorite.
Bjorling was my father’s favorite tenor, and he was an opera singer himself. Bjorling’s voice was like wallpaper as I was growing up. Quite a story how you heard him first in Vietnam. As the years went on, Franco Corelli displaced him as my father’s favorite, though Bjorling and Domingo were still played very often. By the time I was in my 30s, my love of orchestral music had grown on my father and he only listened to opera occasionally after that.
I know I should love my music regardless of sound, but since my NuForce amplifiers broke down and have thus far been unfixable (although there is now hope,) I have not been able to reach that Nirvana except in a couple of cases. Shouldn’t be, I know . But it is. Really devastating!
I feel that way too kef lover. I feel genuine sorrow when I hear/read guys in their 60’s debating which heavy metal band was the greatest .
I never heard a note of Classical till my late 20’s and then I heard the GREAT Swedish tenor Jussi Borling singing a LvB song on Armed Forces Radio in Vietnam . It clicked with me like switching on a light in a dark room , true beauty in a place there was none . Strange , because AFR never played Classical .I sometimes think I was listening to station GOD .
It looks like we share the same sentiment regarding the incredible gift that is classical music. There are times when I finish listening to a favorite piece on my stereo that I wonder how this can be LEGAL. Police should be approaching me with handcuffs at the ready. I hear "I’m sorry sir, but that’s twice this week you’ve played the Shostakovich 5th. You’re going in. Don’t you understand there are limits in decent society?" as I’m being led away to the squadcar.
It is simply too good on too many levels - emotionally, intellectually, aurally... I genuinely pity those who don’t share an appreciation for it. If they only knew what they're missing...
Glad to hear that you enjoy the Monteux Nocturnes as I do. As far as channel balance, try a mono CD or a jazz CD with a centered vocalist. The Nocturnes can be checked by playing the 2nd movement. There are divided strings that answer back and forth between the right and left channels and should sound equally loud. I have no balance issues with my copy.
Small world , I wrote mine on a German subject as well, The Weimar Republic . Slipped in a bit on the Weill/Brecht " Rise and Fall of the City of Mahagonny " .
I’ve been telling folks for forty years than Haydn’s 6,7, 8 (Le matin;Le midi. Le Soir) are treasures of light and love that are among the most lovely symphonies period . I loved the Max Gobberman LP’s , wish I still had them. My current go-to is Roy Goodman/Hanover Band on hyperion .
And yes there are several other great symphonists , several hundred. -LOL Classical Music is like a beautiful beach in the South Pacific in January where the most beautiful women in the world wait on you hand and foot with a 4 star chef bringing you the best of food in a fabulous room and the hotel pays you a thousand bucks a day for staying there !
Indeed, I love Brahms. Wrote my Ph.D. dissertation on him. Also, Haydn. Master symphonist. I even love some of his earlier symphonies. Rachmaninoff’s Second Symphony is, to me, a masterpiece of symphonic writing as well as his Rhapsody on a Theme of Paganini and other works. Of course, there are several other great symphonists.
Subjective indeed rvpiano. To me Brahms is the greatest Symphonist since Mozart . I listen to at least 1 Brahms symphony a day, every day and never tire of them . In symphonic realm only others I can say that about are Mozart and Sibelius .
I’m new to this site and have not read through all the posts, so these may have already been suggested.
Regarding Rachmaninoff: Symphonic Dances. Analogue Productions. — Dallas Symph Orch. Johanos, cond., it is an audiophile favorite and I have the LP. However for my taste the performance by Ashkenazy and the Concertgebouw Orchestra on London is much more satisfying, even on CD. The tempos are more spritely and make the Dallas version sound draggy in comparison. I find it to be a very good digital recording as well.
Since rv mentions sonics, and is not averse to vinyl, I can recommend a couple which I find to sound quite natural.
"Stravinsky Conducts Histoire Du Soldat Suite" with the Columbia Chamber Ensemble on Columbia. Nothing like going to the source. ;^)
Also "Rossini Overtures" by Academy of St. Martin-In-The-Fields with Marriner on Philips, 6500 878. Interestingly there was another Rossini by ASMITF on Philips, 9500 349, which does not offer nearly the same natural sonic presentation.
To me, Mahler is the greatest symphonist since Beethoven. It took me a long time to come to that conclusion. I, for a long time, considered him to be disjointed and arbitrary. But, once I found him, there was no turning back. Now Bruckner, I still have a very hard time with, but haven’t yet given up. Of course it’s all very subjective.
I was taken by the performance of Adam Fisher and the Dusseldorf Symphony . Fisher handled the over-emotionality and variants that bother me in Mahler very well and it was a live performance from the Dusseldorf Tonhalle which has very good acoustics . IMO Fisher is formidable, as good as anyone around .Budapest is the most musical city I know about, fantastic audiences and he is very beloved there , so I’m not alone in that .
I don’t like music that seems "bombastic" for its own sake to ME ,which to me ,Mahler does . Obviously , says nothing about Mahler and a lot about me . Janacek, for instance, brings the house down but all in the service of the music and in an organic way and I love him . A lot of Mahler to me seems to turn back on itself like a dog chasing its tail. Hard to do that in vocal music , that, and my deep love of the German language make Mahler A-OK in that realm to me .
Of course I’m not a musician and reading Music Theory 101 from The U of MN bookstore and X thousand liner and program notes is the extent of my musical education . But we all have to listen with our own ears .
I got the beginning of your post regarding Mahler’s 7th Symphony in my email but it seems the full text was removed from the forum. What’s up with that?
It seemed you were beginning to say you liked the symphony, although I know you’re not a Mahler lover. That is the most challenging symphony of the lot for most Mahler aficionados. It took me a long time before I “got it.”
Just got the Monteux set. Gorgeous performance of the Nocturnes! One question though. It’s probably my system acting up again, but I heard most of the audio coming from the right channel. I don’t notice that with the next selection (Tchaikovsky.) Do you have the same phenomenon on your set? I would guess not. I think my preamp has to be defective.
Yes, the Victrolas and the London Treasurys are often from the original master. A great example is Stravinsky’s “Song of the Nightingale” by Reiner. It’s demonstration quality and rivals the expensive Analog Productions reissue. Similarly, the Peter Maag LP’s on London Treasury of Mendelssohn’s “Midsummer Night’s Dream Overture” and Third Symphony sound wonderful.
The Brahms Sym. #2 Munch/BSO on RCA is the only other title that I don't have on LP. I believe its first stereo release was on a Gold Seal LP. I first discovered it on a Gold Seal CD. Although it didn't sound altogether excellent, I heard what I thought was potential if it were given a better CD transfer. I learned that it was a 2-track recorded in '55, so I knew it could be a winner. It subsequently received a good transfer to CD and is coupled with Brahms #4, also with Munch/BSO.
I waited a long time for the Debussy Nocturnes with Monteux/BSO to get a good CD transfer too, although I discovered it on a plum Victrola LP. I started with a mediocre Gold Seal CD. But it was finally released in excellent sound on the 2-CD "Monteux-Great Conductors of the 20th Century". If you don't have the set, it's worth the price for this recording alone if you enjoy CDs.
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