A great rendition of the Schumann Cello Concerto, which I love, is the
du Pre/ Barenboim on various Angel/EMI LP’s . CD’s don’t do it justice IMO.
My fav is AngelS-36642 because it’s paired with the Saint-Saens Cello Op.33 . One of du Pre’s most charming efforts which is saying a lot .
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@jcazador, I don't see the Schumann Piano Concerto in those links. And, the recording I reference to was with the National Symphony Orchestra. It looks like RV was correct: https://www.amazon.com/Schumann-Piano-Concerto-Op-54-Op-129/dp/B0018OC7VMI might get a copy and compare it with my digitized version. Even if it has differing resolution, the performance is one that I consider something Schumann himself would approve of- and, perhaps, Clara. Bob |
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Curiously, enjoying disc 2 rather more than disc 1. Piano sound still very good. Perhaps it's my mood, perhaps it's the AC.
Still, Levit has me wondering if Glenn Gould ever recorded the late Beethoven, and if so, how similar their interpretations would be.
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Bought a bunch of CDs recently, many of them based on recommendations from this thread.
First one to arrive is Igor Levit, 2CDs, late piano sonatas.
Recording: piano image is very present, well fleshed out, more neutral than warm in tonality. Sounds recorded in a fairly small space. The piano is right "there" starting at about the plane of the front wall behind the speakers, so if this were a concert, I'd be sitting close.
Performance: 28 sounded, well, intellectual.
29 is a bit more stirring. Perhaps it's just the nature of the late sonatas that I'm reacting to, and perhaps it's Levit.
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Gdnrbob,
If you search Amazon deeply, you’ll find CD copies of the Argerich/Rostropovich.
It was re-released in 2016 |
@twoleftears ,
When I saw PC, I thought Power Cord. It took a minute to register...
In my opinion, the nicest recording of the Schumann A minor (PC), is Martha Agerich and Rostropovich. It isn't available on CD, so I bought an LP and will have it digitized.
Bob |
@newbee Just enjoyed a very spirited performance of the Schumann PC courtesy of Stephen Bishop and Colin Davis. Looking on Amazon, I see there are highly touted versions available from both Lupu and Perahia, two of my absolute favs. This will be the ruination of me...
Listening as I type to second movement of Arrau Chopin PC 2. Yes, the balance of the piano sound is definitely more, err, robust. I love Arrau's phrasing and interpretation, I just wish the orchestra were balanced differently; it seems to me that this movement needs to shimmer more with a kind of restrained inner light. Going back to check Giulini now, though Inbal takes a full minute longer than he does. ...And yes, this is more like it!
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I just discovered a pianist named Roland Batik on Spotify.
Wow, he is pretty talented, both Classical and Jazz.
Bob |
RV, thanks. No need for the '99 version I think.
twoleftears, I think you may like the Arrau. I find this performance a bit relaxed and very enjoyable. I think you will like the fact that the piano is more spot lit than Zimmerman's. FWIW, I haven't heard Biret's but she is one very talented lady. She has an large discography on Naxos of romantic solo piano works, including Chopin, Rachmaninoff and Brahms, well worth hearing. |
I really can’t comment a lot on the debate over SQ because IDAGIO is not as revealing as my CD setup. I can say the piano appears to be slightly left of center, and at least on IDAGIO the sound is full and warm if not extending past the speakers too much.
As for the performances, I have more to say.
The 1999 performance is as I remember it live, if even more eccentric. Wide (if not wild) variances in tempo make it hard to appreciate the music. I remember when the recording first came out it was hailed by some as revolutionary or revelatory, but not by me. I heard it live around that time.
The 19 year old Chopin did a remarkable job orchestrating this piece for one so young, but he never became a great orchestrator as he composed almost exclusively for piano solo. (Exceptions include a cello sonata, a trio and some songs.)
I much prefer the Giulini recording. It’s more poetic and simpatico to me.
The orchestra is conducted with more authority. The 30 year old Zimerman is brilliant. |
Changed to Biret/Naxos for PC2, nice, more distant perspective. I think I have Arrau also on a budget reissue. Must check. The way the piano floats over the orchestral accompaniment in the slow movement is delectable. |
RV, I'll look forward to your comments.
FWIW, from an audio perspective only, something I noticed last night after hearing PC 1 and posting. I listened to PC 2 - contrary to my comments about the piano appearing left of center in PC1 (which I rechecked today), in PC2 it was dead center. Additionally the over all gain seemed increased as well. ??? Go figure. Obviously they were recorded on different days, and all of the variables that might bring, or my hearing/audio system isn't up to par. |
Newbee,
I’ve just located both Zimerman performances on IDAGIO. I’ll give them a listen and report back.
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“Swings and roundabouts?”
Not an American term, but I get what you mean.
Of course, I would expect the hi res files to sound better.
Maybe, some day... |
RV.I had time to do a comparison over the weekend of IDAGIO and QOBUZ streaming and I came to the conclusion that at conventional CD rates that it was swings and roundabouts , not one winning over the other. However when it came to higher rez files the Qobuz 24 / 96 files trounced the cd quality files with the higher rez having so much more air about them , also the treble was much improved on the higher rez.
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I’m sorry I cannot comment on the fine points of his Chopin concerto recordings because I don’t own them. But I have heard him live in concert, playing and conducting the E minor Concerto. A very original, some would say eccentric performance with great variation in tempo; a very personal interpretation like none other I’ve heard.
Truthfully, I was not totally convinced of his approach. While original, it did not let the music flow. He certainly is a fine pianist, but this performance did not work for me. His 1999 recording which I’ve heard is quite similar to what was executed in the concert. I would guess his earlier recording with Giulini is more conventionally rendered.
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Well, twoleftears, something must be wrong with my system. I get no sound beyond the boundaries of my speakers, but then I don’t expect any. You can revisit what I had to say about set up in RV’s other post on imaging wherein I talk about the ’stereo construct’. Only out of phase information can appear there, but side wall reflections are often mis- heard as primary signals. Nothing wrong with setting up your system to get that sound if that is what you really want.
About the recording itself, it is a 1979 DG after all. Not overly warm or romantic. I love the clarity of his and the orchestra in these pieces, as compared to, lets say my old favorite (on LP’s) Claudio Arrau. Neither the piano nor the orchestra dominate. I find the sound balance with the piano on left center of the stage. FWIW I have quite a few of these works but this is the only one I listen to any longer. I understand that he did a redo in 1999 of these works wherein he conducted from the piano with a Polish Orchestra which is highly regarded. These are apparently highly regarded as well even if quite different.
I’m no expert on these pieces. Perhaps RV would like to comment. |
Revisiting Chopin/Zimerman/Giulini on DGG. A remarkably engineered recording. If the soundstage isn't well outside your speakers, something is wrong. Depth is fine but not commensurate with width. Fine performance, not quite sure about the treble range of the piano--recorded a little forward I suspect. |
Yes that's a good idea , I'll try that at the weekend and let you know how I get on.
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Interestingly, I just A-B ed Qubuz and IDAGIO in the same non hi-res selection and found the IDAGIO had slightly better SQ. I don’t know why.
You can try it yourself to see if you up with the same results. |
Jim,
The main situation with me is that, digitally I have many thousands of CD’s that sound great with my DAC. Also, almost as many records (that sound even better.) So most of my listening is not from streaming. I still buy CD’s even though the same content is available online because I like the way they sound with my DAC.
When I recover financially from expenditure of my new speakers, I’ll definitely consider a hi-res capable player.
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Moscheles concerto #3. The older Supraphon recording, rather than Hyperion. Surprising enjoyable. Mozart meets Romanticism. |
RV if you do that you will i promise hear far more, just imagine as you know the frisson from a harpsicord or hearing overtones from the orchestra that are cut off by the brick wall filters in CD players. I have listened to master tapes made by the BBC at 24 / 192 and they are trully awesome and when the resulting concert when broadcast although really good but a pale reminder of it's sire.
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Eventually, I suppose I’ll have to get a DAC that supports higher resolution. |
Jim,
Yes, it’s just CD quality which is ideal for me in that my DAC is only designed for that.
BUT, IDAGIO has so much more content and wonderful search engines. There are many, many wonderful recordings out there with terrific sound not in hi def.
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Hi RV I looked at IDAGIO on your recomendation but is it right that it is only CD quality ? If that really is the case I think I shall just stick to Qobuz as I can get up to 24/192 on it. You say it is really meager for classical lovers but what can't you get as I can get all the music I need on it as I nowadays I am only interested in high quality recordings. If you are interested in historical recordings then yes I can see where the others may score.
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Just downloaded Qubuz. Really meager for classical music lovers.
Tidal is much better.
But IDAGIO leaves them both in the dust.
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Answer: Weber. Rosel/Blomstedt. Very enjoyable, but not transcendent.
BTW, can you believe that the Hyperion Romantic Piano Concerto series is up to 77? Takes the notion of completist to a whole new level...
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Agreed. O'Conor/Nocturnes/Telarc=delicious. It's the recording done by Onyx, rather than the performance, that doesn't completely convince me. Anyway, 6 & 7 didn't provide any major revelations. Onward. Who's next? |
I think of the recordings available that O'Conor does it best for me as I find O'rourke drags the nocturnes out too much. O'connor also imbibesmore life to them and I also find the Terlarc recording to be more imediate and detailed.
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Field 3, 4, 5. Now he seems to be channelling a little bit of Beethoven mixed in with the Chopin. I like O'Conor as a pianist a lot (on the Telarc label), but I don't think I really like the Onyx recordings very much. Perhaps O'Rourke is better. |
Listened to Field ## 1 and 2 last night, John O'Conor, and so far I have to say I prefer the Nocturnes, which are absolutely delicious. We'll see if I like 3-7 better. 1 & 2 were obviously heading in the direction of Chopin, but frustratingly neither quite enough character of their own, and not quite Chopin-esque enough. |
John Field was a very interesting composer the precurser to the Chopin Nocturne and wrote some very nice piano concertos also but you already know that but what you don't know is way way back in the seventies my friend and I used to play Field Nocturnes on two classical guitars, but that's all history now. I used to like Fields works and I shall have to revisit him some time.Speaking of Stephen Hough , heard him a few years ago in Glasgow playing Rachmaninov's Paganinni Rhapsody and he really was very good but I haven't heard anything from him lately either.
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@jim204 Thanks! I embarked recently on a listening journey through piano concertos. Started with Dussek, worked through Beethoven, and last night was three from Hummel. Beautifully played by Stephen Hough. What happened to him? I remember he made a splash with a number of recordings and those two "Piano Albums". Then.... ? Who's up next. Chronology will decide. John Field must be approaching. |
@twoleftears
No as far as I'm concerned your Radu Lupu recording is very safe I would rather that they both sat side by side because Radu Lupu when on form is trully magical in introspective works like the late Brahms piano music. I was at an Edinburgh Festival performance of his many years ago and he was off on that day but from the recordings of his I have heard he's had a good few good days as well. If you are really into Brahms late works I used to have a disc of Willhelm Kempf doing Op 117 and Op 119 and they were trully atmospheric and I did love them but lost it when I stopped using Vinyl, don't know what happened to most of my vinyl in the eighties ( I have a sneaking suspicion my wife weedled them down by trashing a small amount each week from the garage but she never did admit it ).
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Both great!
Among a crowded field of superb performances of late Brahms, there is a very early recording by Helene Grimaud in her early twenties that is amazingly cogent and perceptive for one so young. One of my favorite versions.
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Still wondering about Volodos vs. Lupu on late Brahms. |
Just heard few pieces by Khatia and currently listening Pictures. I take back what I said, she's astounding. I was quick to judge based on her youtube appearance. |
I really haven’t heard too much of Boris Giltburg. |
As I mentioned in an earlier post, her recordings of Mussorgsky’s Pictures at an Exhibition, Stravinsky’s Three Scenes from Petrouchka and Ravel’s La Valse, all on one disc are really imaginative, especially the “Pictures,” unlike any other interpretation. She begins the “Pictures” like a stroll through the gallery rather than a bold statement of the theme.
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Maybe I need to take a closer listen. To which recordings are you referring specifically ?
What about Boris Giltburg? Just heard his Rach 3 on Tidal, very impressive tone. |
I find Buniatishvili to be an imaginative and probing musician as well as a formidable technician. |
Having seizure like activity seems to be in style for a modern pianist. Matsuev reminds me of Gilels in that sense, minimal upper body movement. I totally agree with jim about Mitsuko, quite distasteful. As for Khatia Buniatishvili, I don't think she's even in the same universe with Matsuev. All these young Russian women get on stage half naked and get praised for their "technique". How about Lola Astanova? Nearly a million views on youtube. Check out this talent https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FdDLvED_4E |
I have the Sony boxed set of the Horowitz celebration CDs and at least once a week something from it is listened to. That Scarlatti disc of his is legendary and no wonder the playing is superhuman and if you look at him playing there is hardly a flicker from his face. I don't know about you people but I hate all this swaying and gesticulating on the piano stool. I went years ago to the Edinburgh Festival to see Mitsuko Uchida oops sorry ( Dame ) now. I could not look at her the faces and gesturing from her really put me off and I wasn't pleased because it was an all Schubert recital and at the time I had a few of her records but watching her I don't even know how she played that day because I was so off. Go back to earlier times and you had Horowitz , Richter, Arrau , Gilels and others who sat at the piano and the only thing you could see moving was their arms and hands and hardly a grimace from them and those men were superlative at technique as well .
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Horowitz really had it, but each major pianist had their own individual forte, be it technical virtuosity or interpretation.
Kind of like how Art Tatum, James P. Johnson and Fats Waller could play stride, but each had an individual approach.
B |
