Classical Music for Aficionados

I just ordered that book a few days before finding this thread.It will probably take me quite a while to finish but I have that one and one on Brahms that a friend recommended on order.  I'm just a novice though even though I've listened to classical on and off for years.

Oh, each and every Bach lover should read Gardiner's  2014,600 page, tome on Bach , "Music in The Castle of Heaven " . Beyond doubt the most masterful book on the Master written in English . A fabulous read !

Thanks  learsfool, I did not know that about Casals !
I'm  in great company .

Hi Schubert - Pablo Casals used to do the same thing, apparently. 

Amen to that !The Gardiner's set is the go-to set of the Cantatas , I have some of it but my complete set is Rilling because it was available in vinyl .
Every morning for the last twenty years I start the day  with a cup of coffee
 and a Bach Cantata . I honestly believe this is a major factor  in me livingto be as old as I am .

I have been away from this site for a long time now, and have just caught up with this thread. I'll mention that I too would agree that Grimaud is one of the best working today.  I've had the good fortune to work with her I think on three different occasions in my career. 

Speaking of keeping the music alive, one thing that has recently done that for me as far as listening goes was my purchase of john Eliot Gardiner's complete set of the Bach Cantatas that they did a few years back for the anniversary.  Just one great chorus after one great aria after another.  None of it of lower quality.  Bach is a great choice if you need a reboot.  

newbee et al
I share your appreciation for "Les Annees" and Lazar Berman.
I think my favorite recording of "Les Annees" is by Ciccolini.
From 1961 & 1969, on EMI

@twoleftears 
Rubenstein's #4 concerto has been a favorite of mine since I first heard it 40 years ago... It was on an old VoxBox collection with Micheal Ponti.
Actually, I rediscovered it on Spotify. They had 3 volumes from Early Romantic to Late Romantic. 
Not the greatest piece of writing, but it has all the Romantic hallmarks.
And, yes, Brahms deserves to be in the Big 3 with Bach and Beethoven.
Funny, maybe not, but his First Symphony never clicked with me. The other 3 rank as some of the greatest Western music ever composed.
Not to mention the Piano Concertos...
Bob

Listened to an Anton Rubinstein concerto yesterday, no. 5 I think, not unpleasant but florid and generally a bit OTT.

Next up today is Brahms' #1, and the contrast isn't even funny.  B. is ten powers superior in every way.  Still, listening to some second-string composers now and again reminds one of why the greats are the greats.

The classic Gilels recording, never sounding better on my system at the point now to which it has evolved.  At a really moderate volume I nearly jumped out of my seat with that first chord.

I did some research. The pre-1948 78 rpm records were cut on a type of wax, not acetate. The 78’s themselves were made of shellac.

Yes, I have those CDs.  They are amazing in every way.  The piano roll captured his touch and pedaling.  When I first heard the recordings, I said to a friend: “all the rest are like children.”  And I wasn’t even speaking of his legendary technique.  I was describing his phrasing and command of nuances that you can’t hear on pre-1948 acetate masterings, even with expert restoration.

Talking about Rachmaninoff doing Rachmaninoff ...

Telarc made two recordings of piano rolls performances by Rachmaninoff doing his own works for solo piano on one CD and the works of others on a second one. The CD's are titled 'A Window in Time'. Amazing works realized by Wayne Stahnke.  It is facinating that they could do this at all, let alone so well. I suspect that most listeners would, initially at least, think that these are live recordings of a real performing person (Rachmaninoff).

Spending the afternoon streaming Rachmaninoff performances as pianist.
Just finished listening to his own playing of his First Concerto.

Heaven on earth.

Correction: The title of the Grimaud album is “Memory”. Not “Memories.”

If you haven't already, you might enjoy Berman's  performance of Liszt's 'Annes' on DG. One of the best I think, although it is hard to find a performance I don't enjoy.

Yes indeed, love Helene Grimaud.
Her 5 cd collection (Brilliant Classics)
Water (2016)
Her collaborations with Sol Gabetta and with Mojca Erdman.
Thanks for the tip about Memories, will try to find that.
I have been listening to a lot of Lazar Berman, wow.
His Rachmaninoff of course, being Russian, but all else as well.
I never could get into the Schubert vocal pieces, something about voices.
But now listening to Berman playing Liszt transcriptions of Schubert,and they show the beauty of Schubert's melodies.
DICD 920164-5

Just heard Helene Grimaud in her “Memories” album on IDAGIO.
A lot of very familiar pieces (and some unknown) played ravishingly.
Undoubtedly, one of the great pianists of today.

Who knew that Franck wrote piano concertoS?  Listening to #2 right now; very lyrical.

Kurt Mazur , often gave little speeches before  down-beat with the Gewandhaus . My favorite was Schubert-Schumann -Brahms were
the greatest move forward in Germanic Music .
I would not say Holliger is the greatest Musician alive but would say nobody's any better , (bow towards Korea ) .

My travels down the byways of 19C pianism have led this afternoon to a couple of concert pieces by Raff.  Not going to change the world, but worth a listen...

Schubert,

Funny you should  mention it.  Right now I’m listening to Schumann’s complete orchestral works with  Holliger.  Not one rotten egg in the bunch.  Even the unknown overtures are sublime works, especially in Holliger’s hands.
Recorded sound is wonderful too.  Listening on IDAGIO.

I heard Ms. Cooper play Brahms and Haydn live last year in the superb acoustics of Macalester College music hall in St.Paul .A VERY powerful player and a very fine artist !
I have noticed people seem to appreciate Brahms later in life as he is not as bombastic and is more refined
than most of the other great composers .
But once the veil is lifted his greatness just grows and grows on you .
rvp, a dose of Schumann AND Holliger could raise the dead !

Happy New Year all
now listening to Imogen Cooper,
Brahms Theme and Variations from String Sextet, Op. 18
wonderful, and I thought I did not like Brahms!
Chandos 10755

I think I’ve made a quick recovery.
 I’m enjoying the music now.
Listening to the aforementioned Schumann Symphony #2 with Heinz Holliger on IDAGIO, which now sounds better than the CD, amazingly.  In classical, anyway, IDAGIO is as good sounding as Tidal premium.
After this, will check out Litolff. 

You’ll be missed, but may be the healthiest move.

Over here, REALLY enjoying Litolff, Concerto Symphonique #2 and #4, Peter Donohoe, on, of course, Hyperion. Stirring stuff.

I really do think I am going to leave this forum for a while.
 I’ve recently invested many thousands of dollars in various upgrades and feel my system is not sounding as transparent it should.  It does, however, sound very musical, but so does Bose. I really don’t know which end is up at this point. So, it’s probably best to get my head out of the sound business for the time being and try to enjoy the music.

  We’ll see if I can hold my resolve.

Again, sorry for the typo!

After Christmas, I do indeed feel like twoleftEATS.

So, of the five Sterndale Bennett concertos, the vote goes to #4.

Curiously, the recording I have isn't on Hyperion but Unicorn-Kanchana.  The pianist is well known to me, Malcolm Binns, but I was surprised to find the rousing accompaniment was provided by none other than the Milton Keynes Chamber Orchestra (!!!).  This may be lost on those of you (the fortunate) who have never been to Milton Keynes.  Fine recording too, full bodied and very present, though the solo piano in the filler Fantasia could sound a little tinny in places, likely the fault of the instrument itself, as the recording seems otherwise very faithful.

Twolefteats,

You know, I’ve been thinking of leaving for a while myself.
This hobby is such a pernicious thing.  It really paralyzes you from enjoying the music most times.  
Like every addiction, it’s very hard to break

I think the cure might be to leave Audiogon for a while.  The more I'm on here, the more I'm thinking about the sonic presentation.  Sitting here right now with Sterndale Bennett Piano Concerto #1 (Lyrita), telling myself to focus on the music (haven't played the CD for ever) vs. the soundstage, pretty good, and the relative image/volume of the piano relative to the orchestra behind it, which is a bit big.  It's only half working... )-;

It’s not just you. I think most folks here have the problem to one degree or another. You’ve just changed hobbies from music to audio. Time to get back into music - perhaps its time to explore and expand your interests in new (and some old) music. I’ll bet, despite your background, that there is a lot of stuff out there that you have yet to experience in more than a passing mode. Worked for me anyway. That and a dose of reality about what I could actually achieve with audio in my home. Except for a tube change now and then I’m pretty happy. Good luck.

Come now, all of us here on Audiogon are always playing with their systems. It's that 'what if I do this/that' that is always in the back of their mind.
For me, I have to say I have very little to change-I love my system that much-Which is saying something.😄

In a similar vein, I wish I could accept my system for what it is and stop worrying

“Is it good enough?”

On another thread I complained about my obsession with sound blocking out my love of music.  Especially now that I’ve upgraded my set with several new components, it’s a real problem for me.
I really wish I could go back to listening to my table radio, on which, when I was younger, I learned much of the classical repertoire.
Does anyone else here have a similar problem?
Or is it just me?

That is what I hate about Qobuz the pauses, in work like Also Sprach Zarathustra there are so many micro pauses that it gets to the point no matter how good the performance that I abandon it. The same happens in Ein Heldenlieben and many others , now we don't have these micro pauses when we are at a concert so I don't want it at home.

I have to amend my assessment of pauses between tracks in the various streaming services.
Upon further listening, I found that all the services had the pauses in varying degrees, unfortunately.

I’ve copied this post of mine from another thread because it might be useful here:

Some observations about the different streaming services for classical music:

The best of course is IDAGIO because it is designed for classical.
In classical works oftentimes there is no gap in between the tracks.
Idagio, Qobuz and Spotify don’t insert any gaps, Tidal does.  That ruins the continuity of the music.  On Tidal, also, it is very difficult  to find specific works by composers.  Their search engine just doesn’t do that job well.   Again, the best is IDAGIO, as it has many search engines.  The other two services do a fair job.
 I, at first thought SQ was the best in Tidal, but in classical music anyway, they all seem pretty equal.

If you're in the mood for a really stirring, Liszt-ian piano concerto, try Henselt on Hyperion.  Hamelin is also one of my favorite pianists.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_T1arhfVE1oThis is not Classical music per se but it is considered one of the greatest American military march’s and is played world wide as music for musics sake .
I often heard it in Japan and Germany .
The reason I am linking it is this rendition is done by a big band of German
teens . I didn’t think this level was possible by any teens !
P.S. Bernstein and NY Phil . recorded it as well .

Gottschalk anyone?

I just purchased a new Gottschalk (and Cuba) for solo piano by Antonio Iturrioz on the Steinway label (I love this label for its solo piano music compilations!) Nice disc but not so much for the Gottschalk unless you want a ’slow and dreamy’ one.

But this disc caused me to get out a pair of Gottschalk’s CD I haven’t listened to in a while, a CD (Vol 1) "The Banjo", dedicated to solo piano music by performed by Eugene List and Vol 2 "A Night in the Tropics" which includes the Grande Tarantelle performed by List, Maurice Abravanel and the Utah State Orchestra and more music for solo piano by List.

Outstanding music! I recommend it, especially if you like lively music more than sleep. FWIW I think List owns this music! This is an old set of recordings re-mastered for CD. Good, but not SOTA by any means. But, truly, it really is about this music.

One reason I bought a pre-amp with a phase switch .

twoleftears, glad you liked this CD. After recommending something its nice to hear that some one tried it out and agreed.

FWIW, although this is not part of this thread we have discussed its elsewhere recently in another thread and I thought perhaps you would like to know. Re soundstaging and the appearance of sound occurring outside of your speakers, this occurs from the presence of 'out of phase' sounds in the recording. For a similar affect, listening to a TV with or without a audiophile set up involved, especially with out, you often hear ambient noises (doors slamming, planes, cars going by etc) coming from all about your room. This is the same out of phase information. The effect is very similar to what you might hear if you were to just reverse the cable connectors on one set of speakers in your system, i.e. you get sound from all about you, but have no focused center image. 

Tonight: Dvorak piano concerto.  I can't imagine there can be much better ambassadors for a piece than Sviatoslav Richter and Carlos Kleiber.  That being said, I think I see why it hasn't caught on more--not as inspired, or at least not as catchy, as the Grieg or the Tchaikovsky, for example.  Still, a very pleasant listen; soundstage quite distant.

Volodos, Mompou.

Wonderful!  Incredible touch in the soft passages.

Very natural piano sound, tremendous dynamic contrasts.

I don't remember who recommended it, but my thanks to whoever in this thread recommended Arrau/Haitink for the Beethoven ## 4 and 5.  Listening very happily now.

By the way, if anyone says decently set up systems can't project a soundstage outside the left and right speakers, listen to this recording.  The orchestra is spread from several feet left of left to several feet right of right.  

OK, Perahia/Abbado complete Schumann works for piano/orchestra.  Just listened now.  This is by some measure my favorite version of the concerto.  Excellent!

my latest "discovery"
Victor Ryachikov plays Mikhail Glinda, Complete Piano Music (3 cd)
Ryachikov writes:
For a long time the works that Glinka wrote for piano have been considered methodical and suitable only for study at music schools. I believe this is a wrong attitude.
To the attentive listener this music is redolent with feeling and delicate nuance. It is music full of love, tenderness, expression and humour; music of elegant simplicity and nobility. When played by pupils it can often seem primitive, even pompous.
This is because it needs a simplicity and naturalness that is very difficult to
achieve. It is as difficult to play as is the music of Mozart. My primary wish is for Giinka's piano music to return to the concert stage. I have been playing this music for many years and in many parts of the world and it never fails to touch people's souls. The pieces also complement excellently the works of other great composers in a programme. A love for this music, once born, never dies. Many of the pieces featured among these recordings are little known and are recorded here for the first time.

@jcazador

JC I have been listening to Radu Lupu’s boxset and must say it is most enjoyable. At this very moment I am listening to Schumann’s Kinderzenen and it is stunning to listen to , the extrovert movements are gloriously virtuosic. Although it won’t supplant my version by Claudio Arrau it is most definitely able to stand side by side to it. It is very nice to hear the digital transfers that have been expertly cleaned up , there is not a trace of tape hiss anywhere. I don’t know about the rest of you but I always thought Decca didn’t serve him too well as the record pressings I had of him were noisy and had an opaque cloud over them but these digital transfers now do him justice. Also a lot of the recordings were produced in the Kingsway Hall in London one of the best halls in the world for recording but how Decca could fog that glorious acoustc I fail to understand. I shall return to these performances with regularity.I have been reading your comments about Moritz Rosentahl and did you know that he was never recorded until he was in his 70s but the playing never sounded tired. Although Liszt said that his best pupils were Tausig and d’Albert he always refered to Rosentahl when one of his students was flagging and then Rosentahl would take control of the keyboard to spectacular affect. I feel that Rosentahl was the precursor to Godowsky as when he was young difficulties in execution just didn’t exist. Unfortunately Tausig died when he was very young so we don’t even have acoustic performances to guage from but from statements from other pupils who heard him they said his tecnique was even better in some areas than Liszts. d’Albert lost his concert tecnique because he only wanted to write operas and the handful of piano rolls he left are very poor.Once again thanks for the tip about Lupu.

@jcazador, I found your link and wanted to play it through my Bluesound, but only the Chopin Concerto #1 came up.
I have to say it is unbelievable. How they got rid of all the noise, yet keep the sonic atmosphere is a testament to human ingenuity. Though when I listen to music recorded in pre WWII Germany, I am stunned by the sound quality they captured even then. 
@twoleftears ,
Steven Hough is one talented guy. 
Richard (RVpiano) came to listen to my system and I played the Hummel Concerto #2- something he played in his earlier years- and we both enjoyed his performance- Mr. Hough's, that is.
Bob