Classical Music for Aficionados

I've always turned to Karajan for Sibelius 5, but I'm really liking the Simon Rattle version, which I have on a disc paired with 7.  A real winner.

@jim204 your excellent PS Audio Direct Stream DAC buffers and then reclocks the digital data. Any jitter earlier in the stream will not make any difference.

@phomchick Again I'm afraid I have to disagree with you because
 the direct Steam DAC still suffers from the Garbage in Garbage out principal. As an example my friend suffered from the principal   that it did not matter what the digital source was you could not get better quality by giving it a better source and bits was bits syndrome. I told him to come down with his digital gear( a laptop and a desktop ) and we would play his gear against mine. We agreed to stream a piece and play also from a hard drive. As I had thought his laptop put up a  dull uninvolving sound and his desktop was a little better. I then played my laptop and he was saying a see I told you so with his eyes . I then connected up my PC and it was a different ball game completely, my machine demonstrated much better dynamics and far more detail to the files. Now we were both musicians and we know how instruments sound and he was in complete agreement that my source sounded so much better.

jimwhat instrument(s) do you play? 
guessing: piano

No unfortunately not piano but classical guitar and Renaissence  Lute for about forty years.

Jim
please describe your guitars and lutes
i play an old Guild F30 flat top steel string, have others, fancier,
but the Guild plays so easy I seldom play any other
i play simple stuff, dylan, beatles, fingerstyle (no pick)
got a piano last year, an old Yamaha U1
learning to read!
it would be wonderful to play classical music,
but I started so late in life

Hi Jeremy, I had a few guitars in the years I was playing . I had two wonderful Lowden guitars , a jumbo one ( boy that thing could project and one that was the same size as the Martin D19 which was a lovely guitar to play. I also had a few nice classical guitars of which my favourite was a bespoke one made by William Kelday the man who makes guitars for Tony McManus the Scottish fingerstyle guitarist. In 1973 when I was taking lessons in classical style guitar I found out that I liked to play renaissance lute music and at the time to buy a lute was totally prohibitive as they could only be made as one offs and the cost was sky high. I did not let that deter me so I managed to get some plans and some tone woods and made my own seven course lute. It actually turned out not too bad and I then started playing William Byrd, Francis Cutting ,John Dowland and my idol JS Bach. I played those instruments for many years and I still have the lute lying unused in a cupboard for a good few years. I gave up some years ago when I was discovered to have diabetes and due to peripheral neuropathy I couldn't feel the strings beneath my fingers so I had to give up playing altogether.I now only listen to music but have to admit that it is piano music most of all that I am interested in.

If you got a year playing the majestic Renaissance music Jim , you did and got more than 99% of the human race !
I am very impressed and wish I had 10%  of the creative heart you have.

Thank you Len that is very kind of you.

Your Martin D19 is a surprise, as it is steel string.  And I thought you classical guitarists always played nylon string!I have a Martin 00028, which I love, best sounding guitar I have ever played.  Just a little smaller than your Martin  D.

Yes Jeremy you are right about the steel string guitars , but I had them as I liked to play many styles of guitar music as well as the classical . One of my favourite things to do was capo three frets up and play lute music on the steel stringed instruments, it gave a wonderful ring to the music.

Beautiful guitars made here:
http://www.grimesguitars.com/

@jcazador Yes Jeremy they are indeed lovely guitars ( I would love to hear how the ones with sound holes at the front sound like )
As an aside I am this moment listening to a gorgeous Handel’s Messiah from Emmanuelle Haim and Le Concert D’Astre . It,s a facsimile of a performance Handel organised at Covent Garden in London. In it the Alto was a counter Tenor and I must admit I do like it though we are all more used to female altos but I do indeed think there is cause to put it beside the Dublin editions.

Jim et al
here is Keola Beamer playing prototype "Beamer" model that Grimes named after him

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZEjLt9X9zY&list=PLUuz7DoKnenUt7o22xU4X7XP6kAcTRlUA

http://www.grimesguitars.com/the-beamer-steel-string/

rvpiano

any thoughts on Pablo Casals Brahams Piano Trio 1 (SONY SMK 58994 CD) and Schubert C Major String Quartet (SONY SMK 58992 CD) ?

Happy Listening!

Jeremy , I listened to the Beamer guitar and yes it does have a nice sweet tone but I did find the playing a wee bit "Twee"

Keola Beamer is among the most sentimental Hawaiian guitarists.  His most well known recordings are very prepared, e.g., Honolulu City Lights.
My personal taste favors the more improvisational style, and my favorite today is Led Kaapani.  I also love his voice, including that delicate "almost yodeling" popular in the old Hawaiian style.
And he also plays uke.
Here is a series of Led live performances (and it is not all Hawaiian music):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_6Tkab-L3c&list=PL429498FD3C9B3ACE&index=6

@jcazador   Jeremy if you want to hear a really great guitarist then find on you tube Martin Taylor, I can only say what he does on a guitar defies belief. He plays jazz guitar but I got over that hurdle very quickly. I have seen him personally 5 times and he always leaves you wanting more. If you don't believe me then check out the stuff he plays on his Yamaha custom guitar. It has an autograph on it from Chet Atkins and it says "Martin you are the best, Chet Atkins"

thanks Jim
downloading some now

@jcazador       Jeremy while I am listening to it I shall tell you what, it's Mariam Batsishvili and she is playing Liszt and Chopin pieces and she is mesmerising. I know it is no use mentioning to @Schubert  and @rvpiano as they hate all things "Liszt" sorry guys just having a little fun. Now back to the recording it is the only recording I could find on Idagio but I'm quite sure that will be remedied soon. She can only be described as a true poet and she has a technical facility the equal of any. I was sold on the first track of her album ' it was the Liszt Benediction that got my mind made up. I could hear a technique truly the equal of Volodos but she uses her virtuosity solely at the service of the music. Her tone palate reminds me of Claudio Arrau and she plays Liszt's Consolation in D flat major as if Horowitz was on the piano stool. I have found a lot of videos on You Tube giving us a lot more examples of her art, she plays the Bach-Busoni Chaconne in D Minor with a virtuosity that is truly stunning.
There is also an account of her Liszt Piano Concerto No 1 that focusses on her playing manner and there are shots from above of her hands and her octaves are stunning and so precise. This girl is going to go very far and she is only 25 years old. Oh one more thing her persona on stage is in no way flamboyant and she hasn't succumbed to manager tricks to sex her up , she wears a lovely tailored trouser suit which does not detract the listeners in any way ( what a breath of fresh air ). I also now have a recording she made of a recital she gave in Liverpool which BBC Radio 3 had recorded and very illuminating it is, she gives us a technically perfect Bach Chromatic Fantasy and Fugue then a beautifully balanced Mozart Piano Sonata and in the second half she gives us the Liszt Piano Sonata in B Minor . That particular piece I have many copies of with different pianists playing from all different eras and my favourite for as many years as I can remember is Arrau in his analogue set for Phillips which was digitised in the Eighties and Phillips did a retrospective of his career with them and did a lot of boxes of him playing different composers. Our little Georgian wunderkind is going to be up there now with Arrau. Oh and she has a wicked sense of humour also at the end of the Liverpool concer and B Minor Sonata she came on stage and announce that after the Liszt she would give us something mare simple and not so serious. She played The Paganini-Liszt transcription of La Campanella , she brought the house down.

thanks Jim
found the Chopin/Liszt recording, downloading now
cannot find any others yet

Jim
found Martin Taylor instructional videos, very inspirational,
so glad to see he plays fingerstyle,
but I fear my fingers are too old and weak

and thanks for Mariam, I sent you some old material on her
my favorite pianists of those beautiful devotional Liszt pieces
remain: Freire and Barenboim

As we  go into Christmas  I would like  to play what I consider one  of the
greatest Carols of modern time that  is underplayed as are many  pieces
by this great composer .
It's not easy to sing but the American choir  does so very well .
https://youtu.be/SE0aIQp9V4s?t=3

Classical Aficionados: Which recording / version of Gershwin's Rhapsody in Blue do you recommend?  I'm looking for two standout (and different) versions for system evaluation. Thanks!

[I have searched online, but would love feedback from those active in the thread / knowledgeable about this composition]

Andre Previn recorded it, also Julius Katchen II.
Earl Wild recorded an acclaimed album of his Gershwin
transcriptions, but I don't think it includes Rhapsody in Blue.

@jcazador Thank you.  Previn, based on my prior reading, is recommended given his jazz roots. I will look into Julius Katchen II's recordings of Rhapsody. Thanks for your response!

[Side note...I just missed the Previn years with the Pittsburgh Symphony...lived there during the Maazel years]

Hi David you may like to try this one out it's from Benjamin Grosvenor and I say this as it is full of explosive Virtuosity and I find it very satisfying and it has some nice fill ups from Saint-Saens and Ravel. Grosvenor is a very young man but don't let that hold you back because he has a stunning technique.

I enjoy Michael Tilson Thomas's version with the LA Phil. Reminds me more of the sound of music as it was played in the 20's. That aside, I really enjoy Litton's with the Bergen Phil. Recording quality is excellent and the sound is more forward than some of the others, alive and dramatic. 

Of (some of) the others I have, and briefly listened to, I like Bernstein's with the NY Phil, Previn's with the LSO (not the PSO, for acoustic reasons). Much as I like Earl Wild I didn't care for the recording with Feidler. 

I'd be happy with just the first two, but I would include Litton's version with the Dallas SO where he plays and conducts (as does Thomas). I just like  this program a lot. 

Idil Biret
Listening to her Schubert/Liszt transcriptions, so beautiful.
I am not a fan of leider (or opera) so really appreciate these "naked" melodies.
It is on a 9cd compilation that Biret did for the 200th anniversary of Liszt.

@jim204  @twoleftears  @newbee   Thank you very much. I'm excited and looking forward to listening to all of your recommendations.

Jeremy I too like The Biret Schubert/Liszt transcriptions but have to say I love the Jorge Bollet ones even more ,he injects an old world charm to them but make no mistake he could always keep up with the big boys as his Earl King will testify.

thanks Jim
i love Bolet's renditions too

Helen Grimaud, Memory ECHO
ugh
Hélène Grimaud Releases ‘Memory Echo’ Remixed by Nitin Sawhney

Pianist Hélène Grimaud collaborated with Nitin Sawhney on ‘Memory Echo’ featuring remixes of Satie, Debussy, Rachmaninov and new works.

Published on

November 7, 2019

Pianist Hélène Grimaud collaborated with composer and producer Nitin Sawhney on their new digital release Memory Echo. Sawhney and Grimaud returned to music and ideas they began exploring in 2018 for Grimaud’s Memory album where she explored piano miniatures. On Memory Echo Sawhney has woven together four of his original compositions performed by Hélène Grimaud – The Fourth Window, Picturebook, Time and Breathing Light – with remixes of Satie’s ‘Gnossienne No.1’, Debussy’s ‘Clair De Lune’ and Rachmaninov’s ‘Vocalise’. By refining the essence of his collaboration with pianist Hélène Grimaud Nitin Sawhney has developed her extraordinary Memory album even further.

Sawhney’s remixes and new works complement the lyricism of Hélène Grimaud’s artistry. Each track evokes echoes of Memory with a subtle blend of electronics, acoustic sounds, mantra-like vocals and minimalist melodic riffs.

Elisabeth Leonskaja 
wow, the real deal
listening to her Chopin nocturnes
never heard of her until today
originally from Tblisi, studied in Moscow
recorded with Richter
married to Kagan
http://www.leonskaja.com/home1
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elisabeth_Leonskaja

Yes Jeremy as you say "the real deal" and I was listening to BBC broadcasts of her in the seventies and eighties. A great tecnique and sumptuous tone.

To all who addressed my query regarding Rhapsody in Blue...

I’ve been able to find all of your recommended recordings. Next up, sorting through album recording quality (access is via Tidal and Qobuz).

I’ll report back in a few days.

Thanks again for your help.

Want to add that I’m really enjoying the Gershwin Plays Gershwin solo piano version from 1924.

Here is additional information for those who, like myself, are not at aficionado levels.... : )

http://www.openculture.com/2016/02/the-original-recording-of-rhapsody-in-blue-1924.html

http://www.classicalnotes.net/classics/gershwin.html

Bruckner retrospective.  Missing the student symphony in F, I started with no. 0 and am up to no. 3.  Have to say he hit his stride with no. 2 and continued with 3.  Looking forward to the "Romantic".

David_ten,

While on vacation, i never received emails from this thread.  So here is a belated recommendation:  On HDTT, is  sonically the best Gerswin disc and maybe the best sounding CD of any kind I own: Jerome Lowenthal with Maurice Abravanel and the Utah Symphony Orchestra. It can be obtained as a download, but I bought It as a gold disc from them.  It will really show off a high resolution system.
Now, I have to figure out why I’m not getting emails from Audiogon.
I’ve missed some interesting posts.

Jim204,

I listened to Mariam’s Liszt Benediction, and find it quite beautiful.
Maybe she’s the one to turn me around about Liszt.

Chopin/Godowsky/Bolet
now listening to Bolet playing Godowsky's arrangement of Chopin Etudes
wonderful
I have listened to others play this (eg Hamelin) but vastly prefer this recording by Bolet
It is included in the 55 cd compilation "Decca Sound - The Piano Edition"
The recordings that I have by Godowsky himself are not as satisfying technically

Mariam plays a kinder and gentler List.  Evidently the album showcased by Idagio  is inspired by Chopin.  Not as shallowly bombastic as the Liszt I’ve grown to dislike.

rvpiano
re Liszt
I am not into the "crash and bang" side of classical music, including some of Liszt.  But Liszt wrote some of the most beautiful peaceful music ever.

suggestions:

Barenboim, Notturni - Consolations - Sonetti de Petrarca
https://www.amazon.com/Liszt-Consolations-Petrarca-Rigoletto-Paraphrase/dp/B000V6Q7SC

Nelson Freire, Franz Liszt 1811-1886Harmonies du soir, S 139/11
decca 478 2728

Leslie Howard, Harmonies poetiques et religiieuses
on hyperion

Barenboin, On My New Piano includes Harmonies P&R
on DG

Jcazador,

I must admit, even as a pianist, I’ve given Liszt a wide berth.  Aside from the Mephisto Waltz, which I performed as a concession to audiences but disliked, i played almost no Liszt.  
I am listening to some of your suggestions and finding some gems.
Thank you.

RV,   I am so glad you are giving Liszt a try as he wrote ( in my opinion ) some of the most beautiful piano music of all time and yes he also wrote some bombastic show pieces to show off his technique. After all it was an age when everyone was vying for the top rung of the ladder and Liszt had to do the same if he wanted to be up there with the rest. A little piece to note is a letter Chopin wrote to a friend and it goes something like " I don't know how I am writing on this page but I am totally consumed by Liszt a few meters away playing my Etudes , Oh how I wish I could steal his technique and way he plays my music". That was Chopin's Op.10 Studies dedicated to Liszt. On the century's most inspired music, in the 18th century it has to be Bach's Goldberg Variations and for the 19th century I would have to go for Liszt's Sonata in B Minor. All I can say just now is thank goodness we now have young pianists of the Calibre of Volodos and some of these young lionesses that can safely surmount the enormous difficuties of his music and present it in a way that gives us a coesive whole that does not look like they are just trying to get through it with as many notes as intact as possible.

@jcazador     Jeremy I have just read your account of the Chopin Godowsky Studies. By not being up technically to Bolet's recordings do you mean Godowsky's technique or the technical imperfections of the recorded sound then. I have read of Bolet going back to his young days when he was a student of Josef Hoffman and how everyone was in awe of Godowsky's technique even Hoffman an Rachmaninov had said that he could do things on the piano that no normal human being could do.

Yes Jim, Godowsky is legendary for his technique, agree.I was referring to the technical aspect of the recordings that I have heard (not to the way the piano was played).I have read that Godowsky's small audience performances were the best of anyone ever, but that he did not play as well in a concert hall, or when recording.  Call it stage fright?  Not for me to say, never heard him, wish I could have.
I have also read that many accomplished pianists do not perform some of his works because they are so difficult. 

Jim,

Yes, I’m aware of Chopin’s admiration and envy of Liszt’s technique.
And, I agree and have always thought Liszt’s B minor Sonata a supreme masterpiece. By a wide margin, the foremost romantic piano sonata, surpassing Chopin’s own and Brahms’ youthful efforts.