I would like to start a thread, similar to Orpheus’ jazz site, for lovers of classical music. I will list some of my favorite recordings, CDs as well as LP’s. While good sound is not a prime requisite, it will be a consideration. Classical music lovers please feel free to add to my lists. Discussion of musical and recording issues will be welcome.
I’ll start with a list of CDs. Records to follow in a later post.
Berlioz: Symphonie Fantastique. Chesky — Royal Phil. Orch. Freccia, conductor. Mahler: Des Knaben Wunderhorn. Vanguard Classics — Vienna Festival Orch. Prohaska, conductor. Prokofiev: Scythian Suite et. al. DG — Chicago Symphony Abbado, conductor. Brahms: Symphony #1. Chesky — London Symph. Orch. Horenstein, conductor. Stravinsky: L’Histoire du Soldat. HDTT — Ars Nova. Mandell, conductor. Rachmaninoff: Symphonic Dances. Analogue Productions. — Dallas Symph Orch. Johanos, cond. Respighi: Roman Festivals et. al. Chesky — Royal Phil. Orch. Freccia, conductor.
All of the above happen to be great sounding recordings, but, as I said, sonics is not a prerequisite.
As an add on to Len's comments above regarding Heinrich Schutz, I'd like to recommend the Ars Nova Copenhagen recordings on deCapo. There is a boxed set of the Johannes, Lukas, and Matthias Passions, along with the Christmas and Resurrection histories, and finally Die Seben Worte. https://www.amazon.com/Schutz-Narrative-Ars-Nova-Copenhagen/dp/B005MJDVWI/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_1?s=music&a... $25 for the set, and these have pretty much become my standby recordings for these works. They are sonically and artistically superb in my opinion. Also the Vox Luminis recording of Musicalishche Exequeien on Ricercar is in the same league. https://www.amazon.com/Musicalische-Exequien-Schutz/dp/B004S7ZZ5Q/ref=sr_1_5?s=music&ie=UTF8&... If works such as these are of interest, and you aren't familiar with the works of Heinrich Schutz, it would be hard to do better than to start with these recordings. My love and respect for Schutz is deep. But he is more of an acquired taste, I suppose.
Jim, When you went to hear Brendel play Scubert, you got Schubert, with many you got/get them . The "heavenly lengths" bit came from Schumann in reference to the Great C major Symphony . Few musicians were/are as learned as Brendel .I’ll look for the Arau.I had it once .
I saw a clip with Rubinstein saying the adagio to Schubert’s Quintet in C,d.956 , is the most beautiful music ever written .Lot of folks like Schubert because he wrote so many melodic " little pieces" . True enough, but according to Brahms anyway, everyone was a masterpiece .At 2 am this morning our local BBC 3 played both sides of a new Hyperion CD with Steven Isserlis on Cello,Denes Varjon on pf .One side was the Chopin Cello Sonata Op.65, the other Schubert's Arpeggione SonataD.821 .
I doubt anyone could walk away from this great recording with any opinion other than both pieces are masterworks .
jim et al I am in full agreement with your comments about Liszt, also Rachmaninoff. I have too many recordings of both to list here. For Schubert, I love Rada Lupu. The Complete Decca Solo Recordings(2010) is 10 cds, about half is Schubert. I read a story about Rachmaninoff, as composer and pianist. His piano teach Nikolai Zverev told Rachmaninoff that he should concentrate on becoming a concert pianist because he had so much talent; and that he should not waste his time studying composition or composing. Eventually Rachmaninoff won a gold medal
at his conservatory
for his composition of a one act opera, "Aleko", and Zverev was on the examination committee. Zverev gave Rachmaninoff his gold watch. Tchaikovsky attended and praised Rachmaninoff.
Did any musician in history combine performance and composition to such a high degree? And remember, he stopped composing in his early forties for decades, he said because his music was considered too old fashioned. Only then did he turn to concertizing seriously and become arguably the greatest pianist of his age. Towards the end of his life, he returned to composition to write some of his greatest music: Rhapsody on a Theme of Paganini, Symphonic Dances, Third Symphony. As late as the 1950’s the Groves Dictionary referred to his music as “warmed over Tchaikovsky!” Only lately has his time come to be recognized as one of the greats.
LenI agree wholeheartedly re, Arpegionne Sonata and with your thoughts regarding Schubert as a whole. When Arrau was interviewed once he was asked who was the most difficult composer to play and he instantly said Schubert and the interviewer said that Schubert had written only one piece that was remotely virtuosic The Wanderer Fantasy. Arrau then countered that his music was too easy to turn into schmaltz and also too easy to counter the schmaltz and play very coldly.I agree with that remark in that many years ago I purchased a CD of Polinni doing late Schubert piano sonatas and played it just a couple of times as I found it wonderfully played but cold as ice. That's the problem with Schubert there ar too many people that play him cold. I also agree with your comments about Brendel, also look out for his book Musical thoughts and afterthoughts, a very good read. jcazadorI must look out for the Radu Lupu recordings that you recomended, I love Lupu's Brahms but have never heard his Scubert, in fact I think I'll fire up Qobuz tonight and have a listen. Yes I read that story about Rachmaninov also , he certainly was a towering force of nature and we shall never see his like again. to all,We have been talking about Rachmaninov and his compositions but who today has lifted up his mantle , my thoughts ? none. I get really depressed when I think of our new composers because the more I hear from them the less I like. The piano music they write is awfull and they can't or won't write a tune into there works , try asking one of them to write a fugue. No when Rachmaninov died piano composition died also , I'll even go further and say that when Shostakovitch died western classical music died also.Agree or disagree as you like but those are my thoughts.
Rachmaninov: Études-tableaux
STEVEN OSBORNE piano
That is a new record the Hyperion label have just released and I was at a concert given by Osborne last year and he played more or less all the music on this CD and it was most enjoyable.
JC Thanks for those listings I'll certainly look into them. Isn't it strange though that Radu Lupu never became universally popular in the way Perahia and Brendel did. I think as a person he was quite insular and never pushed himself.
Just received the Sudbin album. Stunning SACD sound! As I’ve said, aside from the B minor Sonata, a brilliant masterpiece, Liszt is not really my cup of tea. But he does play Liszt brilliantly (shallow though I think the music is.)
A very good performance of Gaspard de la Nuit. (Pogorelich is my favorite in this.)
A dazzling performer, I think Sudbin could use more tonal color and imagination in his playing.
While the rest of the world listens to Michael Jackson singing Rudolph the Red Nose , we classical fans have a huge choice of music that actually does celebrate the Birth of Christ . My personal favorite is a great that doesn't seem to get much attention these days , Michael Praetorius . Pick up anything that says Praetorius and Christmas and you can't go wrong .Couple of my go-to are, Christmas Music: Hyperion CDA 66200Westminster Cathedral Ch. , Parley of Instruments , Hill . Renaissance Christmas Music , BIS CD 1035 , Viva Voce .Of course with Hyperion and BIS the sound will be good .
I have been listening to Jenny Lin a lot lately. Her Mompou, and her Silvestrov album "Nostalghia". My kind of music, serene, peaceful, what they call "devotional" in some other cultures. Highly recommended if you like that sort of music. Also like her Stravinsky album, which I have not heretofore appreciated. And now downloading her "Preludes to a Revolution".
Jim I share your views on death of classical composition, about Rachmaninoff and Shostakovich. I download modern composers, and delete them. I had a teacher who said "if it is not in tune, and it is not in time, then it is not music". I also agree that Osborne's
Rachmaninov: Études-tableaux
is wonderful.
JCThanks for your thoughts I was starting to think I was alone in my musings about the state of music but I'm glad to see I am not. In my country when we go to a concert we are always "treated" to some new composition by some "clown" just out of compositional school. Without resorting to expletives I can only summarise by saying listen to the amount of applause that is garnered after the piece finishes and how oh yes ! the half empty concert hall fills up miraculously after that piece.I think I shall rest my case.
Every time I hear a young composer expound upon composition , and I hear or read a lot of them, I come away with the same conclusion . People who grow up in a rock culture simply rarely make good instrumental composers of classical music . I was in a famous French philosopher’s class once upon a time .She said , "There will never be another Mozart. No one growing up in a modern society can ever have the concentration of mind available to him in the 1700’s ." Stuck in my mind for last 50 years .
@jcazador, I found your link and wanted to play it through my Bluesound, but only the Chopin Concerto #1 came up. I have to say it is unbelievable. How they got rid of all the noise, yet keep the sonic atmosphere is a testament to human ingenuity. Though when I listen to music recorded in pre WWII Germany, I am stunned by the sound quality they captured even then. @twoleftears , Steven Hough is one talented guy. Richard (RVpiano) came to listen to my system and I played the Hummel Concerto #2- something he played in his earlier years- and we both enjoyed his performance- Mr. Hough's, that is. Bob
JC I have been listening to Radu Lupu’s boxset and must say it is most enjoyable. At this very moment I am listening to Schumann’s Kinderzenen and it is stunning to listen to , the extrovert movements are gloriously virtuosic. Although it won’t supplant my version by Claudio Arrau it is most definitely able to stand side by side to it. It is very nice to hear the digital transfers that have been expertly cleaned up , there is not a trace of tape hiss anywhere. I don’t know about the rest of you but I always thought Decca didn’t serve him too well as the record pressings I had of him were noisy and had an opaque cloud over them but these digital transfers now do him justice. Also a lot of the recordings were produced in the Kingsway Hall in London one of the best halls in the world for recording but how Decca could fog that glorious acoustc I fail to understand. I shall return to these performances with regularity.I have been reading your comments about Moritz Rosentahl and did you know that he was never recorded until he was in his 70s but the playing never sounded tired. Although Liszt said that his best pupils were Tausig and d’Albert he always refered to Rosentahl when one of his students was flagging and then Rosentahl would take control of the keyboard to spectacular affect. I feel that Rosentahl was the precursor to Godowsky as when he was young difficulties in execution just didn’t exist. Unfortunately Tausig died when he was very young so we don’t even have acoustic performances to guage from but from statements from other pupils who heard him they said his tecnique was even better in some areas than Liszts. d’Albert lost his concert tecnique because he only wanted to write operas and the handful of piano rolls he left are very poor.Once again thanks for the tip about Lupu.
my latest "discovery" Victor Ryachikov plays Mikhail Glinda, Complete Piano Music (3 cd) Ryachikov writes: For a long time the works that Glinka wrote for piano have been considered methodical and suitable only for study at music schools. I believe this is a wrong attitude. To the attentive listener this music is redolent with feeling and delicate nuance. It is music full of love, tenderness, expression and humour; music of elegant simplicity and nobility. When played by pupils it can often seem primitive, even pompous. This is because it needs a simplicity and naturalness that is very difficult to achieve. It is as difficult to play as is the music of Mozart. My primary wish is for Giinka's piano music to return to the concert stage. I have been playing this music for many years and in many parts of the world and it never fails to touch people's souls. The pieces also complement excellently the works of other great composers in a programme. A love for this music, once born, never dies. Many of the pieces featured among these recordings are little known and are recorded here for the first time.
OK, Perahia/Abbado complete Schumann works for piano/orchestra. Just listened now. This is by some measure my favorite version of the concerto. Excellent!
I don't remember who recommended it, but my thanks to whoever in this thread recommended Arrau/Haitink for the Beethoven ## 4 and 5. Listening very happily now.
By the way, if anyone says decently set up systems can't project a soundstage outside the left and right speakers, listen to this recording. The orchestra is spread from several feet left of left to several feet right of right.
Tonight: Dvorak piano concerto. I can't imagine there can be much better ambassadors for a piece than Sviatoslav Richter and Carlos Kleiber. That being said, I think I see why it hasn't caught on more--not as inspired, or at least not as catchy, as the Grieg or the Tchaikovsky, for example. Still, a very pleasant listen; soundstage quite distant.
twoleftears, glad you liked this CD. After recommending something its nice to hear that some one tried it out and agreed.
FWIW, although this is not part of this thread we have discussed its elsewhere recently in another thread and I thought perhaps you would like to know. Re soundstaging and the appearance of sound occurring outside of your speakers, this occurs from the presence of 'out of phase' sounds in the recording. For a similar affect, listening to a TV with or without a audiophile set up involved, especially with out, you often hear ambient noises (doors slamming, planes, cars going by etc) coming from all about your room. This is the same out of phase information. The effect is very similar to what you might hear if you were to just reverse the cable connectors on one set of speakers in your system, i.e. you get sound from all about you, but have no focused center image.
I just purchased a new Gottschalk (and Cuba) for solo piano by Antonio Iturrioz on the Steinway label (I love this label for its solo piano music compilations!) Nice disc but not so much for the Gottschalk unless you want a ’slow and dreamy’ one.
But this disc caused me to get out a pair of Gottschalk’s CD I haven’t listened to in a while, a CD (Vol 1) "The Banjo", dedicated to solo piano music by performed by Eugene List and Vol 2 "A Night in the Tropics" which includes the Grande Tarantelle performed by List, Maurice Abravanel and the Utah State Orchestra and more music for solo piano by List.
Outstanding music! I recommend it, especially if you like lively music more than sleep. FWIW I think List owns this music! This is an old set of recordings re-mastered for CD. Good, but not SOTA by any means. But, truly, it really is about this music.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_T1arhfVE1oThis is not Classical music per se but it is considered one of the greatest American military march’s and is played world wide as music for musics sake . I often heard it in Japan and Germany . The reason I am linking it is this rendition is done by a big band of German teens . I didn’t think this level was possible by any teens ! P.S. Bernstein and NY Phil . recorded it as well .
I’ve copied this post of mine from another thread because it might be useful here:
Some observations about the different streaming services for classical music:
The best of course is IDAGIO because it is designed for classical. In classical works oftentimes there is no gap in between the tracks. Idagio, Qobuz and Spotify don’t insert any gaps, Tidal does. That ruins the continuity of the music. On Tidal, also, it is very difficult to find specific works by composers. Their search engine just doesn’t do that job well. Again, the best is IDAGIO, as it has many search engines. The other two services do a fair job. I, at first thought SQ was the best in Tidal, but in classical music anyway, they all seem pretty equal.
I have to amend my assessment of pauses between tracks in the various streaming services. Upon further listening, I found that all the services had the pauses in varying degrees, unfortunately.
That is what I hate about Qobuz the pauses, in work like Also Sprach Zarathustra there are so many micro pauses that it gets to the point no matter how good the performance that I abandon it. The same happens in Ein Heldenlieben and many others , now we don't have these micro pauses when we are at a concert so I don't want it at home.
On another thread I complained about my obsession with sound blocking out my love of music. Especially now that I’ve upgraded my set with several new components, it’s a real problem for me. I really wish I could go back to listening to my table radio, on which, when I was younger, I learned much of the classical repertoire. Does anyone else here have a similar problem? Or is it just me?
Come now, all of us here on Audiogon are always playing with their systems. It's that 'what if I do this/that' that is always in the back of their mind. For me, I have to say I have very little to change-I love my system that much-Which is saying something.😄
It’s not just you. I think most folks here have the problem to one degree or another. You’ve just changed hobbies from music to audio. Time to get back into music - perhaps its time to explore and expand your interests in new (and some old) music. I’ll bet, despite your background, that there is a lot of stuff out there that you have yet to experience in more than a passing mode. Worked for me anyway. That and a dose of reality about what I could actually achieve with audio in my home. Except for a tube change now and then I’m pretty happy. Good luck.
I think the cure might be to leave Audiogon for a while. The more I'm on here, the more I'm thinking about the sonic presentation. Sitting here right now with Sterndale Bennett Piano Concerto #1 (Lyrita), telling myself to focus on the music (haven't played the CD for ever) vs. the soundstage, pretty good, and the relative image/volume of the piano relative to the orchestra behind it, which is a bit big. It's only half working... )-;
You know, I’ve been thinking of leaving for a while myself. This hobby is such a pernicious thing. It really paralyzes you from enjoying the music most times. Like every addiction, it’s very hard to break
After Christmas, I do indeed feel like twoleftEATS.
So, of the five Sterndale Bennett concertos, the vote goes to #4.
Curiously, the recording I have isn't on Hyperion but Unicorn-Kanchana. The pianist is well known to me, Malcolm Binns, but I was surprised to find the rousing accompaniment was provided by none other than the Milton Keynes Chamber Orchestra (!!!). This may be lost on those of you (the fortunate) who have never been to Milton Keynes. Fine recording too, full bodied and very present, though the solo piano in the filler Fantasia could sound a little tinny in places, likely the fault of the instrument itself, as the recording seems otherwise very faithful.
I really do think I am going to leave this forum for a while. I’ve recently invested many thousands of dollars in various upgrades and feel my system is not sounding as transparent it should. It does, however, sound very musical, but so does Bose. I really don’t know which end is up at this point. So, it’s probably best to get my head out of the sound business for the time being and try to enjoy the music.
I think I’ve made a quick recovery. I’m enjoying the music now. Listening to the aforementioned Schumann Symphony #2 with Heinz Holliger on IDAGIO, which now sounds better than the CD, amazingly. In classical, anyway, IDAGIO is as good sounding as Tidal premium. After this, will check out Litolff.
Happy New Year all now listening to Imogen Cooper, Brahms Theme and Variations from String Sextet, Op. 18 wonderful, and I thought I did not like Brahms! Chandos 10755
I heard Ms. Cooper play Brahms and Haydn live last year in the superb acoustics of Macalester College music hall in St.Paul .A VERY powerful player and a very fine artist ! I have noticed people seem to appreciate Brahms later in life as he is not as bombastic and is more refined than most of the other great composers . But once the veil is lifted his greatness just grows and grows on you . rvp, a dose of Schumann AND Holliger could raise the dead !
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