The bottom line on this whole thread is that many, but not all, devotees of Classe amps who answered here can't handle any criticism towards their enshrined objects. This is quite myopic and immature. There are constant excuses: Martin Colloms did a subjective review; Robert Reina didn't know what he was talking about; the systems are messed up. Quite frankly, if all Classe owners have to offer is excuses and attacks on every reviewer who has given lukewarm reviews to these amps, I'd rather the thread end, too.
In response to Ramstl, the McCormack amp I compared it to is a much refined design over the DNA 0.5 you owned.
I have outlined the systems I used to analyze the CA-201, and I'm sure that I zeroed in on the sonic characteristics of this amp. It isn't a matter of taste -- I am describing sonic deficiencies both I and an audiophile friend heard. FYI, I am a professional musician, pianist and vocalist, and am acutely aware of what sounds like music and what doesn't.
I think you meant "IYO" when you made your statement comparing the McCormick to Classe'. I would agree they have a different sound but as to which is better....that is for the listener to decide. I don't consider myself the final authourity on absolute matters and certainly not anyone else.
BTW, I don't believe the DNA.5 delux is outdated and vastly improved upon by McCormick. Also, for the record, I never owned the DNA .5, a very good friend of mine does and I have listen to it for hours on end and I have enjoyed it. I just like the Classe' in my system better.
That's my story and I am sticking to it ;) And, I will give someone else the last word.
Ramstl, taste and opinion are just that. However, repeatable, sonic characteristics are not the same. The Classe 201's damped out, airless, rolled-off high end was very obvious to three different listeners on highly resolving systems. So was the weak, flabby bass. These are deficiencies, not just taste issues. If I was speaking of things like, "a little brighter", "a little darker", "more upfront", "more laidback" -- those are characteristics that I could see can be interpreted as "taste."
There are people who think a Hostess cupcake tastes as good as a homemade chocolate cake made with butter and premium chocolate. Is that just a matter of taste? It's a matter of quality, and there are many who lack the discernment to know.
By the way, the DNA 0.5, while a decent amp, is tizzier and inferior in other ways to Steve's new DNA 125 . He will tell you that himself, as well as over 40 other audiophiles reviewing the DNA125 on AudioReview.
I love the Hostess cupcake analogy. Drives me crazy when some teenager (even the grownup ones) says "that's just your opinion" in response to my saying a particular cake or pie (or taco) is better than another. There are standards, and there is such a thing as quality.
You lost me, otoh, with the appeal to the authority of the "40 other audiophiles on AudioReview."
I have never knowingly listened to the expensive and well reviewed Classes, but while I have an "opinion" on the less expensive Classe amps that I have had in my home on audition (decided not to buy them), like Pops, I don't see any point to this thread either.
all talk and no music makes a bad boy very very bad.... seems to me we like to argue about points of view... which we all know about opinionss.....one mans poision is another mans cup of tea...I see the real listeners argue points very little........
TO: all the above audiogoners (won't mention names) that are bashing Kev's all important thread: is classe worth the money Being new in this field its threads like this that keeps me from being sucked in by "professional" reviewers hype as well by big full page ads and some audiogoners biased opinions. If your research reveals a weakness in a product lets hear your opinion. If you disagree no reason to attempt to discredit the questioner. Remember this is the USA NOT russia... We've all fell into pitfalls along the way ie. bought what we wish we had'nt. Its these kind of threads that lead us to a better understanding of the products out there.
Thanks, Tweekerman, for defending me and the original reason for my thread. This thread has basically served to allow others to spew upon me nastiness, condescension, and anger; which has only served to reveal their personality flaws and emotional problems. If you can't handle another opinion or questioning of the sonics of your beloved Classe product, then don't read or respond to threads about it.
I take umbrage at your denigration of snack food industry icon. It was totally uncalled for. At no time has Hostess ever made the claim that their cupcake was as good as, or even a substititute for, a chocolate cake made from premium ingredients.
Oh yeah ... and just where do I find one of your finely made cakes at 5:00am when I'm already 2 hours into a 10 hour drive & need a hit of caffeine and chocolate to wake me up? HUH? WEEELLL??? I KNOW where I can find a Hostess cupcake when I need one. They may not be great food, but they certainly are great junk food.
Why not more than 2 weeks ago, they saved my life during a trip to Colorado Springs. It was 7:00am & I had been on the road for 2-1/2 hours, was on low power and had to fill up the truck. After tending to the diesel duties I went into the Texaco quick stop store, and there...in front of my eyes...fresh, right off the truck...gleaming in their cellophane wrappers...joy of joys...happy..happy...HOSTESS CUP CAKES. Grab two packages..a large coffee...put some tunes in the CD player...put the cruise control on 80 ...sit back..relax and enjoy the feast...OH yeah, babe...
Xenon Now thats very good. I just ran out and bought a whole case of those Hostess cakes. Awesome!! The keyboard is covered in chocolate crumbs and ...i'm feeling abit, excuse me...bloated.. On to subject at hand. I,m sure classe makes a fine product. However if you go to audioreview and plug in Electro's EMC1 cdp , you'll find 33 beautiful gut soulful praises of this player. Hardly 1 bad word! I,m confident this superior craftsmanship is present in their amps as well. So if MR. Kevziek said the above about Electrocompaniet's amps, my first reaction would be anger. I would post "are you sure about what you're saying maybe you need to change the associated equipment and/or get your hearing checked" Then again i may totally ignore him. Most Electro. owners would ignore him as well. I find most "professional" reviewers comments confusing, at times not the truth. But i think they are learning. Read the review in Dec. issue of sterophile by Fremer on the Kora Cosmos($6K) vs. Audio research VTM200($11K) Kora took the prize. There may be something out there as good as AND maybe less expensive than the Kora,i don't know. Thats why i research on Audiogon. And thats why i like Kev's thread. Like i say sometimes you can spend more and get less and sometimes you can spend less and get the least. (least = repairs) Tah Tah
Why are you getting so defensive and sensitive, Kevziek? Can't you take criticism of the internal validity of your findings? They are far from empirical. The fact is auditioning is more of a bottom-up process than most care to admit, and you certainly did not rule out bias in yours'.
I too have auditioned Classe along with other amps, in a quality system. And I was a professional musician. I know there are faults of the CA series and am sure there are better values than the 201, but I have found that it still competes with other price-like amps. I
It is not that I bow down to my amp, I just do not like the polarized, biased way this thread has started and has kept going. I also have no idea what you are after. Someone gives posts what they think, and you rebut them with Stereophile article. You listen to one, and shock of shocks, you don't like it. And the hole thing starts again. It is worth nothing, just like most other threads 'exploring' the inherent 'quality' of major-brand components. On their face, they may not be a bad idea, but I never seen one yield much benefit. You may have to email me with any personally directed comment. I'm done reading this thread.
Don't mean to be a party pooper, but there is a little money to be made in posting public reviews on audio equipment. I think it's called hack writing. Not that all manufacturers or dealers indulge in this sort of free cyber sales approach... but some do.
I wouldn't believe Kevziek's opinion any more than I would 75 audio or videophiles raving about the product of the century. Sonics, and the same goes for visuals, are a matter of taste. Appreciation and pleasure are immeasurable and unquantifiable.
In 1992, I purchased one of the last Classe' Tens (125wpc) designed by the legendary Dave Reich, whose amps bore the designation DR. The last DRs--DR-10, DR-15 and DR-25 (Ten, Fifteen and Twenty-Five)--are still considered some of the best-sounding ever to come out of Lachine or elsewhere. The DR-10 continues to drive our system, while speakers, preamps, CD players, transports, DACs, tuners, wire and cable, and accessories have come and gone. There've been many other amps in the house for extended audition as a possible replacement. Except for two, one SS, the other tubed, and both costing 7-8 times the DR-10, none have equaled the Classe' in OVERALL presentation or have been better in enough areas to warrant a change. This includes a number of later and latest Classe' amps. The remainder of our system: Avalon Arcus, c-j 14LS/Mullard, Accuphase CD player and tuner, Luminous Audio Technology ICs, Symo speaker cable, Shunyata Viper PCs and Hydra. When a better OVERALL amp is available to me at a reasonable price, I'll most definitely consider buying it. Until then, the venerable DR-10 stays.
Guys stop the argument. Don't compare cheap classe with more expensive one. Even with the same circuit, it will never sound the same. Try the Classe fifteen and tell me what you think. Read the reviews. Stereophile. Thanks.
Classe amps are amazing! If you have the coin, jump on a nice pair of blocs or a stereo amp.
They were my first choice last year, but when the 650W McCormack DNA-750's showed up, for an amazing price, THAT was a no brainer!!!! I do plan on a pair of Classe amps before the dirt nap.
If they were on dope in 2002, they probably aren't anymore. You two new guys are arguing with ghosts of the past. These posts are 14 years old and only one person (the OP) seemed to have anything but praise for Classe' amps.
now, back to the Classe' discussion. I have not heard a bad amp from this company. My only quip would be that the newer stuff is junk-sourced to china.
I do like the older models CA 300 amp ETC, New units very well made "But" the prices are up there . I paid 3 Grand for the 300 I sold the unit , I still dream about the unit . Kicking myself in the Tokus
Heard them back in the 80s. They bored me. I met Ken Kessler, the reviewer, and asked him how could he possibly like such dull sounding amps. He said he felt they were neutral and that is the way music sounded. Could never understand it.
Not arguing your opinion, but many (including me) used the early Classe’ class A/B amps via the XLR inputs. Dave Reich designed the DR-9 with single-ended inputs and later succumbed to pressure from Glen Grue to add XLR inputs. Reich did so in a less-than-ideal way, using a cheap opamp in the XLR circuitry. This continued for years in the DR-10, DR-15, and DR-25 and even in the later Fifteen and Twenty Five models after Reich left Classe’. I can personally attest to the lack of dynamics and liveliness of these amps using the XLR inputs. The result was that they were often described as "dark sounding". A different story completely using the single-ended (RCA) inputs IME.
Is it possible that you were also a victim to this in your auditions of the '80s?
I had a McCormack DNA-1 and a Classe CA-300. The McCormack was obviously faster and probably a more open sound, but the CA-300 was more of a stable brute of an amp for some Martin Logans. My son-in-law now has the CA-300. The CA-300 was much better than the CA-200 with low impedance speakers.
Dave, it is possible. My dealer enthused about them but he never used them himself! It may be my taste- I like a very open, live sound. The Decca/401/tubes/ESL mob!
Fair enough, noromance. I have a DR-25 I bought new and two used DR-9s purchased recently from different sellers with the intention of running them dual bridged mono. One was fitted with a refurb kit from Classe’ a couple years ago, the other bone-stock original.
I know exactly what you mean about the DR-25 and the untouched DR-9 lacking the last degree of openness and lively sound. This other DR-9 with the refurb kit is another animal. Extremely open, fast, and lively and superbly musical. Among the best I have heard. Go figure...
Just found this resurrected thread and thought a good opportunity to ask if any of you have experience with the Classe CT-2300. A couple years back I bought this amp and matching CT-SSP pre/pro, found used on audiogon and built before they moved manufacturing to China.
It is my understanding this is a true balanced design amplifier and I am using 2.5 meter balanced silver anti-cable interconnects. I did try single ended silver anti-cables and found them inferior. I have been making many changes mostly power cords and outlets and my system is sounding very good!
The guy I bought that amp from said that he had the Classe' refurb kit (bought directly from Classe' Audio) installed. Best I can tell from visually examining this amp vs the other two "originals", the refurb kit consists of new large power caps and all new power transistors. The "refurb" power transistors have Motorola vendor markings on them whereas the originals did not (it was intentionally removed by Classe' on the originals).
Well after laughing for the last 15 minutes reading threads from 15 years ago I have to chime in for more comments to come for the next 15 years to come. 1. I use to sell Classe Audio in the 80's,never heard a bad one.( and that's a lot of them ) 2. They sound dark,not what so ever.Find the right speakers and cables. 3. I still own a pair of DR-9 ( used as mono blocks ) and a DR-6 preamp. 4. My soundstage is wide and DEEEP and very stable. 5. DR-9 used as Mono blocks sound better than a stereo amp mode. 6. You can buy DR-9 for less than a $1,000.00 what a steal. So my amps are 30 years old and still kicking hard ,what do people want more than that.Clear, powerful and sweet products.
I had a pair of DR8 amps and a DR5 Pre-amp I bought from Lyric way back, recently gave them to a friend since I was not using them, he drives Maggie 3.? speakers with them, and he and I marveled at the beauty in the sound.
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