Choosing a new turntable

Perhaps many of you have read that the majority of stylus sent in for checking or re-building are worn on 1 side. IOW, anti-skate is/was off enough (too little/too much) for a long enough time to wear one side (and put more force on one side of your LP’sgrooves).

Who sends these stylus in? Us, not the normal dude.

Extract: the majority of us could not hear it, or be aware of the imbalance and improper imaging that condition causes. Can the majority hear a joint in a wire? I certainly cannot. I certainly can hear proper anti-skate and balance and imaging.

Reed and Schroeder are ones with separate plates for easier cartridge mount, then attached by a single screw, then delicate wires inviting trouble.

 

lewm

you are correct, it also occured to me they are old designs, many on that list are making fixed these days

my point is they all made their reputations with these removable headshell designs. reviewed, recommended, on approved lists ....

I think it  is based on a technical truth, competing with current trends, but they might shift again.

How in the world can they make a wooden tonearm, yet persist in fixed cartridges, yet some mount to a plate attached with a single screw, then subject us to exposed delicate wires.

modern trends change like preamp and amp should be separate: change back to integrated which is a receiver without a radio (and no features often).

receiver, integrated: true advantage: less interconnects, the purist separates add a  'joint' or two, or three: far more subject to trouble than a tightly fastened headshell.

everything is relevant, to what extent?

I advocate not giving up flexibility for a theoretical difference you probably cannot hear.

In relation to Roksan TT's, I can't but not attach them to the reason why bearing modifications become so popular in the UK in the Nineties and onwards since.

The Company might be the Godfather of very accurately interfaces for machining bearings and having a quality control that maintained the Spindle / Bush interface was kept to very low microns, resulting a extremely true axis.

It was a common perspective that the presentation of these TT's was very attractive, beguiling in their attraction to competitors TT's. 

The quality of the Bearing on the Roksan TT was attributed to this particular sonic and creating an attraction that was a very competitive and improved over other mechanical interfaces encountered from competitors.

Roksan as a business model did not capture and ensnare their customers as did the Linn's, Naims and Pink Triangle, informing their captured prey, all methods of listening used until now are wrong and lets us re-educate you to become better audio enthusiasts and show you clearly where to direct funds.

I would assume the much more commonly seem magazine media were met with an alternative version of how a product should be represented by them, in the eyes of  Linn, Naim, or Pink Triangle and the likes of Roksan were never to be given the place the quality of the product they were producing deserved. 

For myself, I am happy they showed others the benefits of creating a very tight tolerance mechanical interface and the value of a true axis rotation. Mechanical minded individuals commenced with their own versions of this, and I was a recipient of early produced work from the early 90's and am still involved being very encouraging to see this area of work undertaken for a mechanical interface  maintained by individuals being inquisitive and wanting that extra special experience.

Additionally, I am instrumental in seeing this area of a mechanical interface continued as a evolving R&D today. There are a few very good skill sets sailing close to the wind on this subject and I am to look on, to see where they are bearing, it is getting this area closer to being correct, that enables plenty more dots to be connected on the trail to a much improved Cartridge Styli > Groove Modulation Interface. 

Add Kuzma to arms with removable headshells.

Not that I want to perpetuate an argument about head shells, but I always thought Reed and Schroeder tone arms are in a group that have non-detachable head shells. At least that applies to my own Reed tonearm, and any Schroeder tonearm I have ever seen in person. And your list is largely a chronological one. There was a time in pre-CD history when every tone arm had a detachable headshell, except maybe the Triplanar (late 1980s) might have been the first to have a non-detachable head shell. Since the turn of this century, there are many newer tone arms that have non-detachable head shells. That anti-feature seems more likely in the most expensive examples, oddly enough. Not that I care either way.

I think what you see on the Schroeder, the single screw, allows for adjustment of headshell offset angle, not for headshell removal. Same for Reed.

A search on hishark

The following arm makers have models with removable headshells, some removable plates secured by only 1 screw

Hifishark 3-16-24 tonearms with removable headshells

SME

Technics, all the beloved 1200’s, S arm for BP-500 Base

Thorens

Micro- seiki

SAEC

Fidelity Research

EAT

Glanz

Ikeda

Ortofon

Dynavector

Garrard

EMT

Audiocraft

Reed, detatchable plate, (several others have detachable plates, allowing pre-mounting of cartridge, then secured, often by a single screw).

Schroder: separate plate attached with one screw

Pro-Ject Signature 12”

Sumiko

……………………….

Others? I stopped looking

Following one other discussion re dust covers, there was an informal poll here, and most of us declared a preference for no dust cover. To a novice I’d say try it both ways and choose for yourself. It’s easy to do.

As to headshell or no headshell, in theory it’s obvious a straight shot from cartridge to phono input is best. In practice I don’t hear a difference for higher output cartridges but perhaps it makes a small difference for the very lowest output cartridges. Difficult to say because you’re never doing it both ways with the very same tonearm. If there is an audible difference it’s so close I don’t fret over it.

mijostyn

 

"@elliottbnewcombjr I hate to pop your bubble,

You are not popping my or anyone’s bubble, just exposing your different beliefs/preferences.

My preferences:

"but one great tonearm is way better than two cheap ones"."

NO one said CHEAP Tonearms. However, the arm with REMOVABLE Headshell is the one for MONO Cartridge AND Alternates. The main arm, preferably long, can be fixed or removable.

3 Tonearms, one dedicated to MONO, that arm does not need to be ’superior’ relative to the others, just a respected arm to have a MONO cartridge ready to play mono lp’s in seconds. FAR better than a single arm, playing Mono LP’s with a Fixed Stereo Cartridge, even if your Preamp has Mono Mode. Easily heard by anyone.

"Dust covers should be isolated and hinged so they can be used during play. A good thick acrylic dust cover can attenuate sound up to 10 dB at some frequencies further isolating the cartridge from sound."

Who in their right mind would want to 'attenuate' SOME frequencies by 10db? Attenuate various frequencies to various extent????

Right? Wrong? MANY people say ’dust cover off’, to avoid reflected microphonics. No way do I believe a dustcover down is either proper or better. How many of these crazy looking expensive turntables of great renown even have dust covers? And if the do, they are custom monster ’surrounds’, certainly not hinged. Not played when on, actually impossible to start an LP and put those monster ’surrounds’ in place.

 

"Removable head shells are a terrible thing to do to a cartridge and it’s meager signal. Every contact degrades the signal just a little."

Soooooo many great highly respected tonearms have removable headshells, this argument is theoretical, ’purist’ in nature, not evidenced by those many hi-end makers. In another thread, a quick look at hifishark tonearms for sale: I listed a long list of ’famous’ tonearm makers with removable headshells. The current batch of mid-priced TTs with arms with fixed cartridges do a dis-service to their owners IMO.

"The right way to wire a tonearm is a single cable cartridge clips to RCAs or XLRs at the phono stage end. The Schroder CB is an example of such an arm."

Yes perhaps, at least ’purist’ thinking: but no way are the MAJORITY going to purchase the limitations that involves. I had wires soldered to phono cable, a total pain, and when re-wired to VPI mini-din junction box, I heard no degradation.

I seriously doubt two absolutely identical setups, totally revealing: the only difference not having a joint in-line that a difference could be heard. Even by a bat.

"The Thorens TD 1600 is a turntable with an isolated dust cover done the right way. The dust cover is mounted to the plinth not the chassis carrying the tonearm and platter."

I would lift it off for play, hope the hinges are the drop in type.

Thank you for your recommendations, I will keep that in mind , good day!

@elliottbnewcombjr I hate to pop your bubble, but one great tonearm is way better than two cheap ones. Dust covers should be isolated and hinged so they can be used during play. A good thick acrylic dust cover can attenuate sound up to 10 dB at some frequencies further isolating the cartridge from sound. Removable head shells are a terrible thing to do to a cartridge and it's meager signal. Every contact degrades the signal just a little. The right way to wire a tonearm is a single cable cartridge clips to RCAs or XLRs at the phono stage end. The Schroder CB is an example of such an arm. The Thorens TD 1600 is a turntable with an isolated dust cover done the right way. The dust cover is mounted to the plinth not the chassis carrying the tonearm and platter. 

@vicdior Of the three turntables you have chosen the MoFi MasterDeck is the best as long as you place it on an isolation platform with a hinged dustcover. I suggest you look at the Thorens TD1600. It has a great dust cover, it is properly suspended and isolated and it has a fine tonearm. 

Turntables are vibration measuring devices and they do not care where the vibration is coming from. There is always a large amount of vibration in the environment at low frequencies. I call this environmental rumble which you can easily see if you have a turntable that is not properly isolated. Place the stylus down on a stationary record, turn the volume all the way up and watch the woofer or subwoofer. It should remain absolutely stationary, any movement is a problem. The only way to isolate a turntable from environmental rumble is to suspend the chassis that carries the tonearm and platter. The suspension should have a resonance frequency below 3 Hz. 

The best value in a mid priced turntable is the Thorens TD 1600. It has a fine suspension, an isolated dust cover that should be used during play and a fine tonearm. Next up would be a SOTA Sapphire with a Kuzma  4 Point 9. 

The Wand tonearm is a terrible design. It is a unipivot arm, the worst bearing configuration. It is being used because it is cheap. The Wand arm tube is a little pipe organ. Again, this is a simple cheap way of doing an arm wand. It is also ugly as h-ll. The turntable also suffers from some bad design choices. The oversized platter keeps you from using a 9" tonearm. 9" is the optimum length for a tonearm. Longer arms have higher moments of inertia and higher effective masses. Longer arm wands are not as stiff as shorter ones. Tracking angle error is a little higher, but the benefits outweigh this resulting in a better tracking and sounding tonearm. Longer arms are made because lay instinct demands them and manufacturers have to sell product. 

As far as Vintage, I will be selling my Roksan Xerxes 1989 with Artemiz tone arm and a black Corus cartridge soon. I loved the TT but it is a delicate TT  for me ,so not too patient in handling best left to someone who’s knowledgeable with vintage gear. That is the reason I m looking to buy a recent good turntable.

Thanks for all your comments, am leading towards the Wand. A friend of mine has one and he’s very impressed by it. Apparently, price- value you get much more for your money.He has it with the Hana Umami Blue Cartridge. I will listen to it shortly.

Thorens/SME similar appearance to your 3 options

ebay, search for:

Vintage Thorens TD520 3012-R Turntable With Power Adapter Operation Confirmed

2 out of 3,

2. removable headshell, the renowned SME 3012 arm (I loved my 3009 on Thorens TD124)

3. dustcover

drilled or undrilled armboards readily available.

 

 

pindac

I can understand your recommendation for Panzerholz or other variations/names of the material as being great for TT plinth, Seems as you say, some makers are ’rushing in’ to get on board.

however, if TT’s with other materials have already achieved excellent recognition as superior, then I would look to other factors, (or my suggestion, features), to choose, not the least of which is appearance.

btw, Dr. Fiekert Analogue 12, every time I see it, I am impressed by it’s compact two arm design as well as appearance. Sadly it is nearly double the price of the Woodpecker.

if you are doing a search, the spelling is e before i   Dr. Feickert

I would suggest a investigation of the Wand 14.4 TT, even though the Company is not forthcoming with being brand specific, a inquiry could be made to discover if it is a Board produced as a Phenolic Resin Impregnated Densified Wood?

The TT Structure and the description given for the Plywood as being German Plywood and the Wand Phonostage description of the devices casing which is seemingly a identical material, having the description as being acoustically inert, strongly suggests this material is a Delignit product and could be Panzerholz or one of the products produced by them that is very similar. 

I am a advocate of Densified Woods such as a Panzerholz, many TT enthusiasts are using it for a long time now. The growing popularity has now spilled over to the place where other TT manufactures are adopting this material and even the most recent £60K Linn TT now has this material type being used. 

Advisable to hold of until the Spec' for the 14.3 Structural materials is better known, as a option for a TT, could be discovered to be in front of you, that through the design to use a particular structural material, is producing TT, that is nipping at the heels of much much more expensive models using the same Tech to overcome typical issues needing resolving with a TT's function.

Linn States, whilst concealing the materials trade name:

" The sonic improvement comes by way of Linn’s all-new Bedrok™ plinth technology; formed of orthogonal layers of beech placed under extreme pressure to create an entirely new, solid and massive material. The consequent ultra-dense wood has negligible resonance and offers a superior isolating housing for the turntable’s mechanism. "

Clearaudio makes TT's up $30K Panzerholz is used and make the following as a claim, and have no issues with revealing the Brand of the material responsible:

 " Its resonance-optimized chassis shape is based on the proven success of Clearaudio’s three-point design — a combination of Panzerholz, aluminum layers, and aluminum pods. " 

Not in the market for a new/'lovingly used' tt. but the jump to Hana M/C carts is a boon for use M/C fans that love the simplicity of it.  And a lower re-entry $....

Thanks! 👍

Thanks for your opinion. The Wand can have 2 arms and I believe it comes with a dust cover as well. Sound Quality is exceptional according to all the reviews. I also like the others too and will research some more before deciding.They all have their strong points.

Let’s assume all 3 are acceptable for ’quality’

for me it come’s down to functionality:

1. 2nd tonearm possible?

2. removable headshell (on one arm at least)

3. dust cover. (removable during play preferred, plan on a place for it when off).

different model, 2 arms

 

only one arm, fixed cartridge

 

 

two arms

 

 

I would choose the Dr's, and have a dust cover made