Cheapest way to enhance SQ with digital streaming

Well the AfterDark Dela S100 has arrive and been burt-in.

Running from a  Sean Jacobs DC1 (on loan).

Just blown away with the SQ.

@sns will a $1k+ switch improve the sound over being switch free?  Any added benefit?  The price on good ones seems to have no limits.

I agree on switch front, but can we say this about all switches? Some report switches in $1k range and below are of little or no benefit, those priced much higher of great benefit.

Yep I don’t use a switch.  It’s a last resort in my mind ..only used if you have to have one. Keep it simple and save $’s

I haven't read the complete thread so forgive me if this has already been mentioned.

This didn't cost me a dime and really improved my SQ.  I'm streaming a Bluesound Node to a Hegel integrated.  There were two network switches (splitters) between my router and the node.  I removed both switches from the path and replaced with a Ethernet home run from the router directly to the Node streamer.  Bingo!  I didn't realize how much the switches were compromising the signal.  Huge improvement in the sound stage. 

Yes, I looked up the Talema data sheet, and their transformers for this size, 25W and up look different. Among those resellers, I see the same transformer with the only difference I can find is the color. Otherwise, they look exactly alike. 

Still marveling at the improvement in my tube monoblocks system with the additionof the LPS into the second FMC. Once again, I did not expect that. 

@romanesq no I purchased the Bengzi transformer which is the same as the Amazon one. Couldn’t find out any info on what is better about the Talema transformer for the extra $. Looking at pics of the inside of both LPS models they are mirror copies. Amazon is much faster at shipping and easier with returns. Both sound the same.

That's the model rebadged LPS by many others. @tksteingraber did you get the one for a little more with the Talema power supply? 

Second day running this LPS unit for both FMCs and it's easily produced the best I've heard out of my system. I thought the FMCs by themselves were a noticeable jump but the LPS is really significant and wouldn't want to be without it.  

I second this Lps.  I bought it for my pair of FMC’s and it made a very noticeable improvement. Prior to this Lps, I tried the ifi ipower wall plug Lps and it made no noticeable improvement in my system.  Fyi- This identical Lps unit can be bought under a different brand on Aliexpress for $62.

BRZHIFI SUPER 3.5A Dual Output Low Noise 25W DC Linear Regulated Power Supply 5V 9V 12V 

Early this year, I installed this inexpensive fiber solution into my tube monoblocks = system to great effect. Only recently did I finally add an LPS. I've reported on that positive impact here on only one fiber media device. A significant improvement that made me wish I had done so sooner. 

Now, I've closed out the loop with LPS flowing into both media converter boxes and didn't expect much as this was not the "dirty" side. 

Wrong yet again. Another significant bump in performance with a more profound background, great separation, and a tonally rich depth I did not know was possible.

My tube monoblocks are quite sensitive to any change but this is such a nice surprise once again. Here is the LPS I'm using to power both FMC boxes:
 

I tried fiber and initially like it for the clarity but later realized it was for lack of low end presence.

I tried several SFP's and fiber cables between an EtherRegen and SOtM switch both clocked with a Muted Ref10.  

Each SFP had a different presentation.  I found using different SFP's in the ER and SOtM balanced some of the issues from different SFP's.

In my experience the SFP's were adding a layer of edginess.  I used several Finisar SFP's and also tried the Sonore SFP's and fiber.

Hahahaha

we usually always buy physical copy, when hard earned money is spent, there had better be a cd or lip on my hands. Streaming, all this stuff is nuts.

just transfer from YouTube,

Just pulled the trigger on the Dela S100. Full upgrade.

LPS has to wait for the moment and will update the difference after burn in and intall of fibre cable.

My streaming quality is pretty bad, so I'm probably most likely to hear an improvement with these devices. At some point I might decide on a switch like the more affordable English Audio. Would a switch like that make a significant improvement and is it possible to place the switch on either side of the fiber optic?

This is why I've kept audio journal for twenty plus years, document every change. This has been extremely beneficial in moving forward rather than constant lateral or circular movement. Allows one to systematically build system with strong foundation, end of equipment churn.

@sns 

I should be able to A>B>A if I take my time.

Just have to remember to take notes with every addition, as it becomes hard to remember.

I've completely changed my system over a year, but for reasons have not yet heard these changes. 

Linear power supplies, DC cables, fuses, Dac, network switches, grounding box, electrical filters, ethernet cables, streamer, USB cable, DDC, mains purifier, amp recap/update, I2S cable, changing from wifi to ethernet, LAN isolators, Qobuz.

Will set my system up close to as it was and add items systematically, which is not my usual style. Interested to hear the changes, and the effect these increments have on the whole.

Yep, its usually the case several incremental upgrades result in an overall large upgrade. I nearly always do A>B>A comparisons to confirm I'm hearing what I think I'm hearing, especially with streaming. I've done a fair amount of experimentation with streaming equipment, expectations have never been so tested, A>B>A results exposed some 'upgrades' as not being real upgrades, lateral or backwards move on my part.

It would be interesting to hear your impressions if you took out all supplementary devices 

Interesting idea.  I will give that a try.  IME, my biggest streaming improvements over the years have been through upgrading components and digital processing.

BTW, the 45 feet of fiber vs. 45 feet of CAT8 Ethernet comparison is easy since both of those runs are already in place.

@mitch2 It would be interesting to hear your impressions if you took out all supplementary devices that are not required to get sound... just go bare bones with the server and DAC and see how it sounds.   

@mitch2 Perhaps huge and amazing may be over exuberance over an initial, formerly unheard difference, sure many of us have been here.

In going back in my mind over all streaming changes since my initial foray some seven, eight years back, there were times when a change brought about this same over exuberance. Over time I can now see changes have all been incremental, however, if I were to compare my original setup to present it would be huge and amazing difference. Perhaps you need to do this comparison in order to reaquaint yourself with the efficacy of your upgrades.

For me, the higher resolving my system, the easier it is to hear the smallest changes.

Based on your description of setup, weakest link I see is the 45' ethernet from switch to gigafoil. Moving Silent Bonn close to router, replacing standard switch would seem to be good move. I'm lucky in that my internet service comes into my dedicated listening room, but at one point had this setup at far end of room, running 25' ethernet from modem to router (which is close to audio system). I then decided to setup modem close to router via 25' longer coax, so now I could use 1m ethernet from modem to router, no ethernet longer than 1.5M in entire streaming setup. So between shorter ethernet which also meant I could use better ethernet (
various generic to Supra to AQ Cinnamon, long cables,  to AQ Vodka, short cables). Both shorter and better quality ethernet cables were meaningful upgrade for me.

"wow, the difference was huge and amazing"

I have been around the block and back on this stuff but I just don't come to the same conclusion as above.  I have 45 feet of fiber, converters, LPSs, Network Acoustics ENO and Ethernet cable, GigaFOIL v4, and the Silent Angel Bonn N8 switch.  My internet is high speed with an Orbi mesh router system and a standard switch at the main router which separates the audio stuff (the Silent Angel Bonn N8 switch is near my components). I am using Mojo Audio's DejaVu server and EVO DAC and with those components, it is my experience that any sonic difference/improvement resulting from all the digital "add-on stuff" is subtle, if any.

I decided to simplify all this "stuff" by moving the Silent Angel Bonn N8 switch near my main router, running 45 feet of Ethernet cable from that switch directly into the GigaFOIL v4 (which is near my components), and then running the Network Acoustics Ethernet cable from the GigaFOIL v4 directly into my server.  The switch, router, and GigaFOIL v4 are all on LPS. 

I am having a hard time discerning any sonic difference resulting from the simplifications.  My system sounded good before the changes and it sounds good after.  I may reintroduce the ENO and/or try moving things around a bit just for kicks but I am skeptical this stuff does much of anything, and certainly not to the levels discussed by some on these forums.  Maybe I need to listen more, or maybe the add-on stuff is more helpful for systems located in noisy environments.

@tksteingraber Sounds good, your results what I'd expect. Just a reminder, power cables on lps and ac feed, power conditioner will also help. Lps and same upgrades on other FMC will also help, although to lesser degree.

Even the dc cables (from lps to FMC) can have an effect, at this very moment another thread here in regard to this upgrade.

@sns ok my LPS (paid under $100) arrived today and I must say the higher quality LPS  moved the needle right out of the box.  The bass is a bit heavy but I will give it some time to break in.  Anyway it’s a keeper. Similar improvements, to a lesser degree, than what the battery power gave me that I mentioned above. Contrary I would not recommend the Ifi ipower LPS wall plug...it did nothing for my system. Amazing how an LPS can make quite a noticeable improvement on a FMC. Thanks for the suggestion to give it another go.

@tksteingraber Well that's good, proves your system resolving enough. Don't know if I mentioned in this thread, but I have tried battery power with dacs and lps for various streaming devices, always went back to ac with my BPT 3.5 Sig. power conditioner as superior. I too hear warmer/softer with battery, but this less satisfactory with time, noticeable decrease in transients, micro dynamics, music lacked excitement, involvement with battery power.

My take is battery power could likely be preferable to non optimized ac, but with dedicated lines, top notch grounding and power conditioning, ac better.

@sns Thanks for input.  Ordered the higher quality LPS to give it a try.  

On a separate topic I thought I would give battery power a try for kicks.  I already had a Solar back up power outlet (a 24 volt set up) with a pure sine-wave  inverter.  I ran a 14ga 25 ft extension cord from the outlet to my system and connected all components.  Wow....background got quieter, volume appeared louder, could hear all the separate instruments, vocals, noises much clearer and stage expanded.  What a change for no added expense.  Prior to this my system did not have noise issues and running on regular ac power does sound warmer/softer in a good way.  Just different. I think I am glad I gave it a go.  Ughhh...Now I have to figure out how to hard wire the battery power in with romex and a electrical box.

@tksteingraber The only reason lps on at least second FMC would be lack of resolving ability of entire audio system, or lps not of sufficient quality. I can hear differences with lps on only one or two FMC, with different lps,  with different power cords used with the lps, and with lps connected to battery storage device or ac power conditioner. Try a Teradak lps with decent power cord and report back.

Good to hear another success story.  The 2 generic FMC’s with fiber optic cable made a significant improvement on my system as well.  I tried adding an iFi ipower LPS plug to my FMC’s and it made no sonic improvement over the stock wall plug.  Ended up being a return.  Scratching my head as to why?  Anyone else have no improvement using a LPS on FMC’s?

Just an update from February with this inexpensive approach. I had been looking around and examining 5v linear power supplies. Finally pulled the trigger on a unit by Solupeak.

So of the two media converters with the fiber connectors, I have one on the "dirty side" as they call it. Result?

Astounding, simply astounding. I was hoping to see a little improvement but once again, it just made me regret not doing it sooner. 

Again, my system is unique but consists of 65w tube monoblocks, RME ADI-2 DAC, McIntosh LS340 speakers, using a 2011 Mac Mini running Audirvana's Studio software. 

The depth of the sound, the separation and black space all take another major leap. I'll add that my setup is especially sensitive to changes, even a small tube can offer some nice change/improvement. 

Also running a LPS on the RME DAC. That was very nice but this is more than I could have imagined. It's going to be a spell digesting this one. 

Thanks again to @sns  and @romney80 as this is a superlative low investment for big bang results. Thanks to everyone else who also shared their experience. 

I use glass Toslink optical from Amazon for connecting my TV audio to my HiFi system, and it sounds excellent. I'm actually amazed how good it sounds through my DAC/audio system, given the bitrate/sample rate.

@esarhaddon I don't run Toslink, only network optical cables. I'm using optical cables  Small Green Computer sells with Sonore equipment, assume they are polished.

I do recall reading something about differences in optical cables some years ago on Audiophilestyle forum, forgot about this until your post.

SNS; Also when looking at TOSLINK fiber cables look at the materials and the stiffness. Too stiff of a cable makes them hard to manage, many consumer reports will mention this. and the ends, I DO NOT like plastic connectors. Not that a gold plated end on a TOSLINK cable will enhance the sound but they don't wear out and change as much with things like temp or humidity. The longer cable I mentioned I got is an off-brand named FOSPOWER, but they lay and rout nicely and have a nice snap when inserting them. Mine had 'Polished' ends. The one connected to my SACD player is a Cardas and it is sufficient. There is a brand named 'Glass' that looks nice, but I know nothing about them other than their brag of using actually glass. I saw one thing you want to watch for. and TOSLINK ad that states it uses only the finest Oxygen free copper in it. You know you are in trouble with this one.

For SNS, As far as cables go, I find the product descriptions on AMAZON quite nice, I also have a subscription to the AudioAdvisor catalog which has a few dedicated retailers they like. I have found that Pangea, Audioquest, Cardas, and even Kimber (but they have a long list of haters) are names you usually won't go wrong within the 'Cables' and you can get about any price range you want. I usually look up something on Amazon and then contact the dealer listed directly. Something else is what you are connecting this up too. I was in a So-Called High-End store yesterday looking at an Anthem AV rec, and everything was nice and they had all of the best stuff except the speakers they had connected were Cheap Junk baby towers that were flat, dead, and had no presence at all. I won't mention any nmaes here, but it ruined everything. that and they had thin walls without any sound dampening and I was overwhelmed by every other display room that was being used at the moment. I won't EVER go back.

@esarhaddon Good catch, completely forgot about that. Who makes the good polished plastic and/or glass optical cables? I'd like to try this.

I would caution you on expecting a Fiber Optic cable to be GLASS. Now recently some better manufacturers are starting to put out these cables in the glass but if they don't specify glass, you can bet it is Plastic. and even that isn't so bad unless you get the cheap stuff. By that, I mean how they treat the ends of the plastic fiber. Is it just heated and smudged on a flat surface or is it POLISHED in a special process? it can make a huge difference. Also, Plastic is not as good as glass in long runs. I am using a 20 ft cable and it is Plastic but it has polished ends and does fine. There could also be some problems with Jitter, but I don' know if I have ever experienced jitter in either a S/PDIF cable or from disk players.

@romney80 

S100 by AfterDark technically is a re-branded Melco with upgrades and a choice of clocks.

 DELA S100 - Audiophile Network Hubs #日本製 - AfterDark (adark.co)

vs

A double stacked Buffalo GS 2016 with clock customized.

AfterDark. Project ClayX Buffalo BS-GS2016 Cascade x Giesemann OCXO Bl (adark.co)

See the rabbit hole I am digging ;) 

To keep on topic, I wonder how these expensive switches compare to the cheap FMC, Cost vs SQ ? 

@clive101 

I also have Finistar and they do uplift quite a lot from regular ones. From my understanding Melco S-100 and Telegartner M12 switch are top echelons in the network switch category. I would love to hear people who have Melco S-100 or M-12 switch. If you do buy them, please keep us posted about your observations. 

Yes, certainly seems like topic is going from "cheapest way" to expensive switches, but since these come under category of clean ethernet, I guess it is alright, as long there is lot of learning. 

@romney80 again thank you.

just been looking at the Afterdark Network switches and upgraded version of the Melco S 100.

Has anyone experience of these or similar...but a little off topic as not cheap.

But I did order two Finisar and some fibre cable.... apparently top class.

I will post my findings when they arrive.

@clive101 Thanks. Yes, once you start this route, it is a rabbit hole but you will find the journey very revealing, exciting (with some frustrations and hiccups in between) but  will get you were you want. 

I have tried etheregen, sotm, English electric, ubiquiti network switches in my system, individually and in all combinations of 2 and 3s (including the sequence in which they are in series). My take and for my taste, more the switches in chain, lesser the noise but there are some changes in musicality which I did not like it. I ended up just using sotm (Router to ubiquiti switch > sotm via fiber > streamer via ethernet). Still, in digital chain, fiber optic and network switch (of your choice and taste) gets best out of your system. Of course, I have seen people using multiple switches in chain, but it is not my preference. 

@sns Much appreciated!

@goofyfoot I'd rather run longer optical than ethernet cable, less signal loss, optical also immune to emi/rfi, so first FMC close to modem, second close to Pi. Power at least the second with lps.

Also, there's an affordable switch from English Electric which is owned by Chord. It's getting good reviews. It may be worth taking a look at.

This sounds worth trying, as I've never been all that happy with the sound that I get from streaming. Admittedly, I'm not that technically savvy. I have a standard modem on the second floor and from there, I run an ethernet cable to my Bryston Pi in the attic and then from the Pi, I run a USB cable to my Ayre DAC. Would I just connect the first of those boxes at the end of the ethernet, close to the Pi or would the first box be closer to the modem?

Continuing experimentation with optical continues causing me to reassess its value in all instances. I've been using generic FMC, with lps and quality power cables prior to server for past month or so, thought I had pretty good handle on sound quality. So went back to router with lps, nice power cord straight into server (optical remains post server), much better sound quality sans FMC. This back to original configuration, always like to do A>B>A comparisons to check for confirmation bias.

IME, the two FMC, while having slightly lower noise floor, in the sense I could hear lowest level info slightly easier. it was at expense of more analytical presentation. More hifi than sense of realism I get without FMC. Transparency really took a hit with the FMC, more closed in, veiled sound quality, Decreased sound stage size, less image dimensionality, less air around performers, all contributed to less sense of performers in room.

My take is generic FMC may take more than give. Less than optimal implementation of optical for reasons given in my last post, added complexity with streaming chain may also be liability.

@romney80 Thank you for the FMC advice, greatly appreciated.

But you have just sent me down a rabbit hole 😉

While I hate to say this, as generic FMC can be very nice upgrade, one can still further optimize optical. Generic FMC use pretty lousy clocks and noisy regulators, last FMC in chain injects it's own noise into network, and this, most likely close to dac which is worst place to inject noise. So, we replace last FMC with Sonore Optical Module, much better Femto clock and four low noise linear regulators, less noise, better timing for less jitter. I have one coming supposedly in July (chip issues), I expect good things.

Just goes to show for every upgrade in streaming, there is yet another upgrade. Streaming  and network optimization has yet to reach a static optimal solution.

@audphile1 good to hear your assessment. I have gone a great deal in this and everything matters, including a separate 20 amp line, wall socket, power cables, ethernet wire, ethernet switch, SFP module. Some are small improvements and some are big ones. Depends on system and your preference in tonality. I like to have black background with low noise. Have never stopped trying different components in chain and still find the optical fiber to be the best bang for buck. 

@sns I got both units plugged into my Puritan PSM156. 
And yes planning on picking up a better Ethernet cable at some point.
Pretty amazed after another listen this afternoon. Less shouty and more relaxed presentation and it just sounds sweeter and more detailed.
Crazy stuff…but I think these units are benefiting from break in. Had them running about 20hrs. 

@audphile1 Even with FMC, ethernet cable quality still matters, your experience illustrates that. Using your best ethernet cable closest to dac makes sense. Upgrade all your ethernet and be prepared for further gains. Upgrading from Supra and various other ethernet to AQ Vodka was well worth it for me.

Further gains with generic FMC can be had with even better lps, power cords, and connection to power conditioners.

The links didn’t post correctly…here are the items:

Pack of 2 Gigabit Ethernet Multi-Mode LC Fiber Media Converter (SFP SX Transceivers Included), up to 550M, MMF, 10/100/1000Base-Tx to 1000Base-SX
 

LC to LC Fiber Cable Multimode Fiber Patch Cable, AllChinaFiber Duplex Fiber Optic Cable 62.5/125 OFNR (6FT, OM1, Orange)

Monoprice Cat8 Ethernet Network Cable - 0.5 feet - Black | 2GHz, 40G, 24AWG, S/FTP - Entegrade Series