Cables ... no longer opinion

Nope. The science is solid as it gets. No opinions necessary either way. Just the science. Goertz is NOT foil. It is very thick conductors in loose sleeves. Not a good example. Goertz is what has caused a lot of system mis matches. 

...welcome, my friends, to the debate that never ends.....
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"Cable Wars, take 2,041...*clack* "sound of popcorn*

Foils have been used by others as well such as goertz and audio magic and mapleshade and i agree they can sound amazing in the right system but i have also noticed that in some systems they can sound off putting they only seem to function with the best gear around them.

Ed Shilling of Hornshoppe Horns used copper foil ribbon speaker cables that he made for himself. Back when I had his speaker, I noticed them on a photo on his site and asked about them. He said they were better than any cable he tried and were cheap and easy to make. I never did take him up on his offer and maybe should have. That was about 25 years ago. (maybe even 30)

All the best,
Nonoise

Good stuff. PM coming.

My lord .... I just did a Google search on foil speaker cables. At one time, only Magnan made them while Downsize did. Now there are a slew of foil cables, including DIY websites. 
Word MUST have got out. I read a few articles and reviews .... almost all of the foil cables which are stacked tightly together, positive and negative runs that is, get rave reviews. Claims are more coherence, and clarity. With astonishing Dynamics, and almost perfect highs. This is the general sound advantages of foil cables. Beware though, all of them seem to use a heavy protective outer jacket. I remember Josh saying he ended up getting his tape made special, to keep it thinner than a human hair. This was one of the things that made downside cables better than the competitors. Josh believes in almost zero insulation, and came up with Brilliant Solutions for this build technique. He also used one of two connectors only. Zplug type hollow bananas, and Wireworld silver spades. He prefers Hollow bananas for everything. Claiming their low mass blows away WBT, Eichmann, and other low mass offerings in the industry. When I finally went with all downsize cables oh, I got rid of my nordost Valhalla cables throughout my whole system. I made a ton of money selling those used!

As far as my sloppy writing style ... did I mention I used to listen to music really loudly? LOL
Probably scrambled my memory of writing classes. Yes, we had those 45 years ago, lol.

No prob, millercarbon. I'm in California. In the 90s, I sold high end audio for years. Suits and ties.
We stocked Townshend products after a Rep tried to sell us on the newest snake oil ... until he left a seismic sink for us to play with. I threw it under the LP12 I kept in the store's front listening room. ALL the employees, and the owner stopped dead in their tracks when coming through the room. "What did you do to the big Vandetsteen system to make it sound so much better"? Was the question everyone inevitably asked, lol. We ordered a dozen of them for the store, and a dozen for inventory! So I've owned Max's products since 95 ish.

@Paul and Ozzy. Josh closed Downsize, because he made the funds he needed to accomplish a financial goal. He also used to send out cables for testing. After losing a pair of very special silver/gold foil speaker cables to a well respected speaker builder/company. That brought his losses to almost $4000 in loaner cables that never came back. Lastly, he was getting so many orders, he could not get any sleep even. It was all more than he wanted. Josh still makes cables. But only on a referral type basis. Existing customers ... their friends ... and people who contact him with simple orders. No entire theater's wiring type sales. He enjoys doing it to help people. But not as a full time business.
     As far as his suppliers, I can  easily ask him. I know he bought the 97/3 silver gold from a European company that makes cables for anyone who pays them. He has a cousin that works there. Moved there after his service in the Air force was up, to marry and stayed there. He is a metallurgist by trade. He bought the Teflon adhesive tape from a US company that specializes in tapes only. He had round conductors pressed to foil by an American company too. I can find out the businesses I'm sure. I do know he used Wireworld connectors exclusively in the end. I remember him testing a Dingo boot box FULL of expensive RCA connectors on the same pair of interconnect cables for weeks and weeks. There were probably 60 or more pairs he was testing. I also remember the day I visited, to find he had made a pair of interconnect cables using only solder as conductors. He had them hanging in mid air between CD player and preamp, and preamp to amplifiers. No insulation at all, and Wireworld RCA connectors. I asked what in hell he was doing .... listening to different solders to see if one sounded better !! Crazy levels of experimentation of every small detail .... Cardas quad eutetic won, and is all he uses fyi.
I can put anyone in contact with Josh. But I don't think he wants public advertising anymore at all. He had a bad car accident, and was laid up for two years. He spent the entire time testing every facet of different cable designs and materials. His goal was to find out WHAT made cables sound differently from each other, and more importantly why. His main finding? Geometry. Cable geometry changes LCR more than anything else, according to his research.

Downsized to zero. Good one. 

flaxxer, So we can chalk it all up to sloppy writing then ;) lol! excellent! Sorry, but you would not believe the number of people who do come along and, well nevermind it is clear now that is not you.    

When it comes to Max you are preaching to the choir here. With me anyway. Have only had Pods and Podiums a fairly short time but that is enough to be sure Max is the real deal.  

Max has posted his article before but the first I learned of it was when he posted it here fairly recently. Seemed clear enough to me but like I said we have all kinds and the kind we have the most of is armchair electronics engineers. We had one at one point, he was so advanced he had designed interstellar propulsion systems for starships. I know. But no. Seriously. Not making this up. Designs warp drives, teleportation devices. In his mind. Same as the ones who know more EE than Max Townshend.  

So anyway like I said Max's paper got me interested. But there is only so much a guy can do, and only so fast. Been going through a number of things the last few years. Most recently Pods and Podiums. Now working on getting some F1. Or Isolda. Would be nice to have both to compare. Working on it.

Right now I have Synergistic Research Element Copper Tungsten Silver, not stock either they started with Tesla and have been modified a lot. Way better now than stock. Way better. Just really good speaker cables. Supposedly F1 are even better still.

We will see. That is why I went off. Was already looking into this pretty good, and then along comes this which seemed at first to be another one messing around where he shouldn't. Good to know we are on the same page. Not a lot of us here have this stuff. Are you UK or US or??

Hi Flaxxer, interesting post re the foil cables. It appears Downsize Cables have downsized to zero, there’s no active website or useful info that I can find out on the net. That being the case and my desire to read up on foil cables who is your cable supplier as you mentioned they were also advocates of the foil designs. Thanks in advance Paul

Just for the record, Max Townshend is a hero to me. I used his seismic sinks in the early 90s with great results, under a Linn lp12. In my opinion, his speaker isolation platforms are the best product ever designed as an accessory. Accelerometers do not lie. The difference a speaker makes on one of these platforms is astounding! Anytime you can take the resonant frequency  of a vibrating loudspeaker, and take the vibrations to zero, you have changed the game for the better! Does anyone still believe I have anything against Max, or want to ride his coattails? I kind of doubt it, since I spent many thousands of dollars with his company. Some of you guys need something to do. The pandemic has definitely brought out your conspiracy theory mindset!

@djones51 .... you can make a set of foil cables for under $50. I would definitely try it, if you're ever looking for different speakers cables.

@millercarbon ... yes, I have an agenda against Max, LOL. I simply was trying to link the article PS audio provided. I was not trying to discredit Max for God's sakes. I own quite a bit of Townshend Audio products. I'm not trying to sell anything. I'm not trying to prove or discredit anything. I'm trying to show there is a test where this has been proven out. Regardless of who the original author is. Please do not try to make it out like I'm trying to start problems. I was trying to help. Anyone who doesn't subscribe to this chain of thoughts can go along listening to inferior sound as long as they want. I did for 33 years. I probably spent $300,000 cables over that time. At one time in the 90s oh, I had over $100,000 worth of Tara labs RSC cable. I had 12 ft quad wired full range speakers. This alone was $70,000. I wish I had that money back. I posted this hoping someone else may not have to spend that much money to find out what I did. Max , may you get all the glory and praise! I'm not looking for any! I'm just trying to post something helpful.

If I ever have a need for speaker cables again I'll keep geometry in mind.

@mastering92 ... ALL cables are filters. And all cables can be used to tailor sound to a system. In the 80s and 90s, high-end equipment was not so neutral. We depended on cables to bring them into neutrality. The Stacked foil cables are simply LESS of a filter. PS audio test results prove this. I I have played with all of the Furutech cable, Oyaide, etc .... they are all just simple plain cables. They follow 50 years of audio cables design. They have the same flaws other similar cables have. The PS audio article we'll also show you this. It's all about the geometry. Once again it is all about the geometry. No cable of any kind can sound extremely good with the wrong geometry. This is due to simple LC and R measurements. Stack foils I have the best LC and R measurements

PS Audio- hilarious!

Look at it again- it clearly says

Max Townshend is the CEO of UK-based Townshend Audio, manufacturer of isolation devices, electronics and cables since 1975. The idea that different cables can sound different in an audio system has been a source of debate and controversy for a long time. Many audiophiles, and yes, manufacturers including Townshend, insist that different cables can make a difference in an audio system. Others dismiss this as marketing hype or snake oil. Here, Max Townshend describes an experiment for identifying differences between speaker cables.

Max Townshend. Not PS Audio! Also at the end it says,

"This article is printed with permission of Townshend Audio."  

This article by Max Townshend is very old, like ten years at least. Max himself posted the whole thing here last year. There's nothing in it about "Downsize" whatever that is. The way the OP tries to link them is deceptive and misleading.

The underlying technology is solid, which makes it a real shame the OP has to come along and sort of discredit it with this deception. The last time this was posted Max got nothing but grief from posers and wanna-bee engineers.  

As for me, I do not pretend to understand the engineering anywhere near well enough to know whether it works or not. My approach is always "the proof is in the pudding". I am working on getting some of these to find out for myself. Only way to know for sure.

Meantime, if the OP made an honest mistake, fine. Let us know. It sure sounds to me though like a deliberate attempt to go for a free ride on Max Townshend's coat tails.  

What say you, flaxxer?

Is there a website for Downsize cables? Because I couldn't find one.

ozzy

The only difference that speaker cables - (or any cable for that matter) can make is negative. Cables are not supposed to be filters for how your music sounds.

I’ve seen studio monitors hooked up with thinner speaker cable - the brand was Furutech. The sound was amazing.It looks just like any regular speaker cable...but I only trust this brand because of Japanese quality control.