Bomb,
Thanks for the thoughtful listen. When one thinks about the size of a Bass, it is a hell of a reflector! This is what I think we're hearing, and while it's a minor effect, I find it amazing our playback systems can pick it up.
Take care, |
Mprime,
I have the "Time Out" LP - Columbia CJ 40585 "digitally remastered directly from the original analog tapes". I listened as carefully as I could to the 2:37 --> 4:20 section. Yes, there is something that I can hear from the right-of-center position during the drums solo. I 1st thought that it was Wright playing the bass until you started this thread!
Sounds to me that the drum solo is the key piece & that Wright might not be playing the bass during the drum solo?? Hard to say but I agree that something is going on in that right-of-center position.
I talked to a friend who is more in Jazz than I am + is a Jazz/Classical guitarist. His opinion is that this Quartet is of very high caliber & that tape splicing was not done during the times this music was recorded for such a high caliber group. |
Have you identified the low note background "noise" heard at 0:56? |
Had a listen last night and even got the girlfriend involved-her hearing is much better than mine.
To our ears the clearest "shift" is indeed at 1:50 although the weight of the piano and change could be considered to be intentional as part of the recording-maybe,maybe not.
Probably not due to the age of the recording.
During the drum solo there are again as described above quite a bit going on,certainly the odd noise which isn't clear (I had to crank the volume up quite a bit to hear what Eileen could hear)-we decided most of these were probably finger noises on the bass or something.
Anyway I certainly never quite noticed that change at 1:50 before as being a tape splice................. |
Sol, I think you got it - it's about finding a reference point to evaluate equipment performance.
Mbhcid, yep, got that. It is quite subtle, but I don't know enough about the sound implications editing process to have linked the two. Interesting, because the musicians who record at my parents house have fallen into two camps. One of the pianists will play a piece two or three times straight through and pick the best overall performance for the CD. Even if there are 'mistakes,' he feels it's the works overall tennor which conveys what he feels is most important. He loaths the idea of splicing different parts together. His approach may be contrasted against a certain Duo, who will perform a work many times, and often, just a segment of that piece many times. They then like to splice together the 'best' sub-performances into an overall work. While there are stylistic differences which emerge between the two recording styles, I've never listened critically to see if this technical approach leaves a fingerprint. So you've given me something to investigate further. Cool.
Best to all, |
Mprime, if you listen closely just after the finish of the Desmond solo (1:50) you'll hear a distinct change in the tempo and what sounds like a phase shift - even the placement of the instruments in the soundstage shifts enough to let you know the recording of these two solo's took place in two different sessions.
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I´ll give it a listen. Have been looking lately for this kind of information to keep improving my system. Will comment on my findings as well. |
Mprime-I'll have a listen tonight or tomorrow and let you know what I hear.......... |
Thanks for the follow-up Wm.
Mbhcid, how do you know it's a splice @ 1:50? Not to question you, but to learn.
Thanks, |
Mprime, I've listened to this track several times at different volume levels, and there is no doubt that something a little different going on in the interval you describe, I'm just not sure what it is. I have not seen the live performance, so I cannot faithfully place the bass position, but as you're claimed - just to the right of center there is some sort of reverberation. I'm wondering if perhaps it's just an extension of kick drum thwaks?
I'll try again tonight on my Stax Omega II headphone rig which resolves quite well. |
I just replayed my 20 bit recording of Take Five listening for the "reflection" you describe. I heard only kick drum thwacks at 2:37 and again at 4:18 - neither of these relate to the tape splice i'm referring to which occurs at 1:50 following Desmond's solo, and just before the start of Morello's solo. |
Ben, thanks for responding. While I appreciate a good fart joke, and do feel this hobby can push you into utter absurdity, I would like to go through this with another member of the forum.
Anyway, the particular spot begins in Track 3, 'Take Five,' @ 2:37 and through 4:20 when Desmond reenters the mix. My 2:37 mark in the recording begins with the other players pulling back and Morello entering with a drum roll up followed by a hard thwak. Ever so slightly later, from the just right of center position, there's a reflection. Right where Wright is playing. This effect continues for minutes, to varing degrees, with a final pronounced reflection @ 4:18 just before Desmond reenters.
If this is what I think it is, then I find it amazing. While it is a reflection of *some* sort, to have it come of the bass is significant to me. For I have grown up in a family of muscians, have many as friends, and frankly, when I listen to them live, I find there to be so many secondary acoustic effects that it can be a bit much to listen to critically; I simply become overloaded with information and must focus on a particular player to keep from being distracted. That my system could picking up a second order effect of this magnitude is amazing.
So, Ben, thanks for your thoughts. And Mbhcid, if you listen critically to this, could you tell me if it is a tape splice or something else?
Best to all (particularly to Tarsando and company for the good laugh :) |
Mprime or Mbhcid-could you give the exact timing of this effect please.
Thanks... |
While attending U of Illinois, Chicago I observed the following in a mensroom stall of the arts building:
"you know you're a musician when you can fart in major thirds"... |
Ya, Brubeck farted a lot, but always on key! That's why most people don't know about it and so few systems are able to pick it up.
It's a wonderful sensation when a simple tweek allows you to smell a familiar recordiing like it was just cut...
Ahh, we're just kidding! |
I think it's Bruebeck farting. |
I believe what you are hearing is a tape splice, or at least that's what it sounds like on my system. Most likely, the engineer recorded several drum solos and the "best" solo was then spliced into the "best" piano recording. Typical studio trickery!
On a highly resolving system you can also hear the tempo change when the drum solo is "plugged in" and then again after the solo finishes.
It sounds like your tweaks may have made your system more resolving! |
