Bricasti M1 DAC vs PS Audio Direct Stream DAC

Coli,
I use a Bryston BDP-2 connected via WireWorld Gold Starlight 7.

I get an absolutely huge soundstage with my M1. Perhaps it is more breakin or my High Fidelity cables?

Interesting, Ricred1 what is your source?

After one day of listening I submit the positives with the M1 compared to the DSD is the bass, dynamics, and not as forward sounding. What I'm disappointed about is the soundstage...in comparison to the DSD's soundstage, the M1's soundstage isn't as wide or dimensional and I hope the M1 improves. Even if it does improve, I don't think there's going to be a night and day difference, but I could be wrong. I hope additional playing convinces me it was worth the trade.

Hey Steve from Empirical Audio. I saw in your awesome room you had Clayton Audio M300 monoblocks at the Newport show last year. Great system and I am thinking about moving from CJ Premier 12 mono block tubes to those monster class a amps. Wanted to know what you thought about them and if a tube guys like me would like them and if you think they would sound nice direct from my Bricasti. Most people think and myself included that the Bricasti is great direct and wanted your professional opinion. Thanks

I recall that you had some concerns about making the change without being able to audition the M1 first in your system, and I'm now pleased to hear that your initial impressions are so favorable. It will only get better with break-in! You can continue to run the DAC locked onto a digital signal even with your amp turned off to help accelerate the break-in process. Just enjoy the tunes, it's a great DAC.

I have it connected and my initial thoughts are I know I don't need a preamp. I don't know how much break-in will change the sound, but I'm :)!

For PCM files Minimum Phase filter 0 is usually best, but some users also like MP filter 2. For DSD files it's a bit more complicated. DSD filter 0 is actually unfiltered, so ultrasonic noise from the DSD process is passed through unattenuated. DSD filters 1 and 2 provide different levels of noise filtering, so you really should try each in your system to determine the preferred setting. Enjoy your new M1 DAC!

I'll receive my M1 today. What is the recommended filter setting and/or what filter have you found that works best?

Fsmithjack,

Be patient and watch the after market.

My Bricasti M1 has shipped and I will have it on Wednesday. I look forward to providing feedback

I have heard Berkeley DACs a bunch of times but not their new Reference DAC but I bet it sounds amazing. Pretty expensive though I think...

Fsmithjack,

Have you heard the Berkeley Reference DAC?

Fsmithjack, Okay, understood & fair enough. So to your question "Was just wondering if a tube lover would like these amps..."

Yes! Having previously owned BAT VK150SEs, Atmasphere MA1s, Dehavilland Aries 845s, Berning ZH270, VTL ST80 and probably some other that is slipping my mind, the Lamm hybrids have plenty of appeal to tube lovers.

Benefits include the expected impact on dynamics and low end control and the ability to drive almost any speaker (claimed down to 1ohm load although I never tried that!). However most noticeable and commented on by guests is realistic rendering of drums, something that isn't particularly high on my priority list, but with these amps adds an uncanny rendering that is always a pleasant surprise.

Above comments based on use in my posted system including driving Nola Viper Reference IIIs. Also worth noting using Amperex Bugle Boys 6922s and have also enjoyed Brimars & Tungsrams. Suspect Tungsol 7308s and Telefunkens would also show their unique strengths given the opportunity. Cheers,
Spencer

Hi Spencer, Not sure I can highjack my own thread but I get your point.

I threw it out there on here because I listed my entire system earlier and have spoke about my amps as well and a bunch of the guys/gals that have provided input to this thread have opinion's I really value. In the event any of them knew anything about the Lamm amps I thought to take a shot in the dark here rather than starting a new thread in the amps section where I may not have gotten to them but I agree that I should just keep it to the DACS so my bad there...

That said with the 2 DACs at hand the DS and the M1 there is no long session needed imo.

I went into that in detail earlier on so no need to beat a dead horse on that point.

The DSD is a fantastic DAC and IMO the absolute best in its price range and it is much better than many more expensive ones as well but the M1 is lot more money. All that extra money gives the designer a distinct advantage and he doesn't have to deal with the bean counters nipping at the parts bin like the less expensive ones do.

The M1 is the best digital I have ever heard and once broken in I found it breath taking.

I love this quote which sums up how I feel:

Once I hit play, those cocky words "game over" did do a full frontal assault number quite without volition. When you're in the presence of better than you're used to by a significant enough margin, it takes no time at all to recognize it.

A customer with a DS recently borrowed the Bricasti M1 and emailed me almost immediately upon hooking it up, shortly afterward deciding he wants an M1.

I suspect upsampling everything to high rate DSD and then downsampling, using filters you have to make, PCM sources such as 96 kHz may be very compromised.

Dealer disclosure.

Fsmithjack,

Respectfully suggest you start a new thread on the amp topic rather than hijack this one.

FWIW, I own a pair of the Lamm M2.1 hybrids you mention and would be happy to discuss them on another thread or by PM if you prefer.

Back to the DACs, the M1 is one of the best I've heard. Would think it would be close between the two and would require a long listen on same rig to draw a meaningful conclusion. Cheers
Spencer

There is a pair of Lamm 2.1 Hybrids that are mostly SS with one 6922 in each mono block. Any of you guys familiar with these? Was just wondering if a tube lover would like these amps and thought to reach out to you guys. Thanks

I can say in my current system my pre does add weight and body which I like and prefer but there are trade offs. Like most things in audio there is always a what goes up must come down thing but this is Bricasti with a pre vs Bricasti w/o pre with my super warm amps the pre leans them out a bit but not compared to DS. With the DS in my system I found my ARC essential and no comparison to not having it with the DS. With Bricasti the pre is more of a preference. Take it or leave it as one adds here and takes there type of thing and its just about a push with a tad leaning toward pre for now... I bet with a better transport I would prefer no pre even with current amps but that's my gut not proof talking. Looking forward to a more neutral and substantial amp direct and for that matter with a upgraded transport then we should be cooking with gas : )...

Fsmithjack,

I'm doing fine. I'm still nervously awaiting the arrival of my M1. I will have it at the beginning of next week. As you know, I don't have a preamp and decided to sell the DSD instead of purchasing a preamp. I hope the M1 is my answer and it provides a fuller, more natural sound than the DSD direct.

Ricred1

How are you? I like the Bricasti M1 Direct to the amps so much that I am making a deal to trade my amps and my pre which I really like for better amps to drive direct. I am headed down non pre lane. I think with my current amps and pre I would say I like it a tad better with my pre but I think its because my pre is better than my amps. My amps are a bit too warm. Always welcomed and enjoyed their warmth but that was with brighter gear. Kinda needed that warmth to deal with brighter, not as resolved gear. I now am after a more neutral amp to get a closer more intimate sound. This is all from a pre lover. The pre used to be my favorite item but really because it helped pick up source imo. I am not sure I can call it heading down no pre lane because the M1 really is a DAC/Pre combo. It is not a popped in volume control by any stretch rather it is an outstanding well executed, duel mono output stage that has me putting my ARC Reference pre up on the trading block. I can always add a pre later if I go through pre withdrawals but my Bricasti is still breaking in and still sounding better. I think before I will revisit the pre I want to make a good run at improving my transport. Looking forward to that when I scrape up some more funds :)

I don't see anything wrong with saying one DAC is just plain better than another.

For example, no one has qualms about saying the DirectStream is better than the PWD Mkii in absolutely every way, even though they're substantially different topologies. Similarly, saying the REF75 is in all ways superior to the REF110, I suspect, would be perfectly acceptable as well.

If that's right, then why is it an issue to claim the M1 is far superior to the DS?

I am always suspect when someone uses the phrase "kills it" when describing sound differences between two comparable pieces of equipment. I personally think transport to DAC synergy is very important to obtaining good sound. I think the Linux based Antipodes-gear is fantastic using the Ipeng interface. Initially I had the Antipodes DS Reference which is fantastic heard the DX version and immediately upgraded my unit. I like the flac file format Antipodes uses, it also helped me with my little Astell & Kern AK 120 as I used the flac files backed up from my Antipodes and loaded them to the 120.
I am sure the Bricasti is a better sounding DAC based on the reviews, but I'm going to stick with the PS DS because of the upgrade path and their ability to close the gap on the competition very quickly. I also put some Synergistic ECTs and a big red fuse, switched out a Verastarr Grand Illusion copper cable and inserted their silver Grand Illusion Signature, which for me took the sound up a whole mother level. I'm sure if I inserted the Bricasti it would be mind blowing, for me right now the PSA DS and Antipodes DX is a phenominal combination. I heard Steve's Empirical DAC at a show and the system sounded phenominal to say the least, I am willing to bet it will give all the Dacs in this thread a run for their money

Fsmithjack,
Is your M1 connected directly to your amp? If so, or if you have tried it direct, I would love to hear your thoughts?

As I'm sure most of you know this but just in case for those that may not know or are new to ps audio direct stream downloads you should create a new empty folder on your computer / desktop and then save the update and put it in this folder. Then make sure you use a proper software tool to unzip/extract the files from this folder. Only after they are properly extracted should you then transfer those extracted only files on the little memory card that you are going to put in the DAC. I had read many people tried using the unzipped files as the download and it won't work that way... You mush unzip them first and It's just little thing but I wanted to mention it as may be helpful...

Zugisland,

Have you tried the DS DAC?

Congrats I've owned the brucastibfor 2 years now and think nothing can beat it! Plus Brian Z is absolutely customer friendly Vic

Aolmrd1241,

A number of people have had problems installing the PP FW. I think there was some corruption of some kind somewhere but I have no idea what this might have been. I am just glad that things have finally worked out with PP.

Hello Sabai. Glad to hear you are now enjoying the PP OS. Can you explain how a reinstall of PP can make such a drastic change when you were committed to 1.2.1? Do you think that your previous try's were corrupted in some way? Thanks...

Hey guys for those of you using a computer with usb cables. I know I need to improve my transport and upgrade from a pc and plan to when I have more funds but I have a nice cheap tweak/mod for you guys to try if you haven't already.

I have been using the JRiver MC 19 and Jplay. Jplay was a nice add and then I was using the fee Fidelizer. I thought that was a little bump in SQ but I decided to upgrade to Fidelizer pro it was like $60 and they built and emailed it to me in like 3 hours. It was a nice little upgrade for sure and real cheap and I wanted to share with you guys. A well worthwhile little add for cheap. It basically turns a bunch of non audio stuff off on your pc and I really like it and wanted to share with you guys.

Glad the pikes peak is working well for you. I found the pikes peak to be a real nice upgrade in my system. I really like it.. Congrats...

Aolmrd1241,

I have reinstalled the Pikes Peak FW and all is very well now with this upgrade.

I felt the exact same as you. As I wrote about it earlier and was kind of the reason I started this thread. There is nothing subtle or even remotely close about these two DACS. It took a 100 hours or so for the M1 to start changing / improving and man did it change / improve. I still can not believe how good this M1 is and maybe its just my mind at this point but I swear it is still getting better and better. It pulverizes the DS I hate to speak this way because I loved my DS and it was better than so many other DACs I heard in its price and ones that are a lot more. The DS is a great DAC and so good that I thought really how much better can a DAC be? The DS is great / fantastic and it takes an all world / some say the best at any price to better it plus it cost almost twice as much so it should be better. All the other DACs near its price lose to the DS hands down IMO but the Bicasti is not in its price and not in its performance range and you'll see and be super happy. Its also a lot warmer DAC which will help even more with your SS based system...

On another note I was listening to the incredible Lampi Big7. The Bricasti is better. It is different but that doesn't matter the Bricasti is better..

I posted this previously in an older thread. This may be the more current and appropriate one. So, please excuse the duplication.

There are numerous ventilation openings throughout the Bricasti casework. This leads me to believe that the unit runs very hot. Can anyone confirm how much heat the unit produces at idle? For example, how long are you able to hold your hand on it?

I am asking because this affects not only placement but circuit longevity. Many DAC's have no ventilation openings because they are not required.

Ricred1, you are reading and worrying too much. Step away from the computer, listen, and relax. :-)

See my post 2-10-15. Told you PS was all hype. I buy everything wholesale and try it. So my pride of purchase does not get in the way of the truth. The chase is the big fun in this hobby anyway. After the music, of course.

I know it's crazy but the more I read the reviews, the more I feel I'm going to be let down by the Bricasti M1. Yes, I've had the opportunity to listen to the M1; however not in my own system. The fear isn't that it won't sound good, but that it isn't significantly better than the DSD.

Essentialaudio,
Thanks for the heads up. Unfortunately, won't be anywhere near the windy city come April. Will most certainly miss those great sunset views from the John Hancock when I was last there.
Cheers! J.

Jon2020, thanks for the links. I had not seen the Australian review.

Bricasti's Brian Zolner and Damon Gramont will be here in Chicago at the AXPONA show in late April, showing in room 422.

And another :-

http://www.audiostream.com/content/bricasti-design-m1-dac

Here's another review :-

https://files.acrobat.com/a/preview/f11523ec-209f-4462-a057-ccbee428e8a1

Thanks, essentialaudio, for the link.
Great review from an independent pro.

If the Bricasti M1 is half as good as the hype, I'll be very happy and it will be my last purchase for several years.

Hey Essentialaudio

Thanks so much !!!

I had no idea about this brand new review.

It looks like it's just a couple days old or so from March 2015 and its a must read IMO.

For my fellow Agon comrades that may not have the time or inclination to read the entire review here is a cliff notes version with a few exerts to give you the gist of it... I really like the down to earth conversational style of this Dagogo review.

By: Ed Momkus | March 2015 Dagogo

" I will start this review of the Bricasti Design Model 1 USB DAC by taking out all of the suspense. The M1 is one of the best DACs available on the market at any price. In fact, when used in the right system it is actually a bargain, since it allows you to eliminate a preamp. It also gives tweakers a huge range of filter options that adjust the sound. Finally, it’s a great looking piece of equipment that you’ll be proud to feature on your equipment stand. The M1 is so good that there is no need for a long review – there’s simply nothing in the way of a weakness. Any DAC that’s “better” is not better because of a shortcoming in the M1. Now that’s out of the way, let’s get to the details."

"Whatever Bricasti did to achieve it, the M1’s digital volume control is excellent. "

" I bought and sold several well-regarded DACs and developed the opinion that audiophile DACs fell into one of two camps: (1) fast, excellent PRAT, “detailed” sounding (although that’s not a good description, as we will see) and “ethereal”; and (2) powerful, dynamic, full-bodied and somewhat impressionistic."

" In my system the Bricasti M1 completely obliterates the distinction between these two DAC camps. "

" The tonality of every difficult instrument to reproduce – pianos, violins, cymbals, etc. – was excellent. Every instrument, including vocals of every type, sounded natural. Tony Bennet, Diana Krall, Pavarotti, Mick Jagger, Patricia Barber and every other famous voice I played sounded very good and lifelike. At no time did anything sound like something else, and there was no confusion between upper standup bass and the lower registers of the cello, electric bass and electric guitar, mellotron and organ, etc. Quite refreshing."

"Finally, a note on power cords and footers. One of the pleasant things I noted about the Bricasti M1is that it sounded very good with a range of PCs. In addition, the existing feet of the M1 do a great job on their own. I eventually opted against using any aftermarket cones or discs. This can really make it easier to justify the purchase. I did not need to search for a “perfect” matching power cord or footers, both which would add considerably to the overall cost."

" the Bricasti M1 is an elite DAC regardless of price. Instead, I was looking for an analogy outside the audiophile world. I came across a review of the Bricasti where the reviewer stated that “the M1 is an understated performer, one that doesn’t necessarily scream for attention.” I understand exactly what he meant, though I would add some clarification. The Bricasti M1 is “understated” in the sense that Jackie Robinson made baseball look easy and Stevie Ray Vaughn made playing blues guitar look easy. They may have made it look easy, but you knew you were in the presence of greatness. That’s the Bricasti M1."

Ricred1 has a real well designed amp from a great and very well respected designer. Both are spec'd well within each others optimal performance envelopes. I agree that hearing is Always best and the safest but much harder to do these days than before... I have heard both just not together but I think Ricred1is amp will sound GREAT with the M1 IMO...

Bill,
Thanks for the info and you are correct, the only way to know is to try it. I have decided to sell my DSD and purchase a M1.

Ricred1 - I can tell you that Bricasti has demoed their M1 DAC directly driving their new mono power amps at recent shows, and the sound has been reported by several reviewers as one of the best of the shows. So it has the capability to perform exceptionally well as a preamp - in the proper system. It will depend upon how well it matches the power amp you're using, as far as its input impedance and sensitivity. Unfortunately the only way to really know how well it will work in a specific system is to try it, as to whether you will like it as much as having an active linestage. Hope this helps at least a little bit with your search! Good listening.

Ricred1, you may be interested in the recently published review of the Bricasti M1 on Dagogo.

I'm guilty! I'm the one who reached out to Fsmithjack regarding the Bricasti M1. I'm currently using my DSD connected directly to my amplifier. I had a Parasound JC2 preamp, but I thought the DSD direct was more transparent and sold the JC2. In hindsight, I realize that with the DSD direct I'm loosing dynamics, the sound isn't as full, and it's a little bright. My dilemma is to keep the DSD and get a new preamp or sell the DSD and purchase a new DAC. My concern...how well does the M1 function as a preamp? I guess I will know in a couple of weeks!

Fsmith - I doubt if you will find any server or PCI card that will beat a well-designed USB interface.

You are better off to get an Antipodes server and use USB from it. This actually beats most PC and Mac.

If you want to lower the jitter of the USB interface in the Bricasti, use an Off-Ramp, Dynamo supply and my BNC-BNC coax cable.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio