So if we made a experiment where a group of seasoned audiophiles had to choose which speaker is best over all, 6 brands all hidden behinda curtain. 5 top dawgs in the xover box low sens design and 1 of the high sens PS design. How do you think the results will come out? But we will not tell the group what speakers are behind the curtains, They will have no idea 1 of the speakers is Point Source. How do you think the, or lets say which 1 speaker do you think would come out on top? No lets do this, Lets give the group a list of 5 speaker brands, Walsh, Wilson, Tannoy, and 2 others which are very popular, like Joseph with the Seas. and 1 more, The mystery speaker is not listed, so they have no idea what speaker it is. The ? speaker is the high sens Point Source. Now Richard Gray hosts this *guess which speaker event* as he is a master of these types of gimmicks and has seasoned audiophiles fooled every single time. Which speaker do you think will make top of the list in results?? I know. The Mystery Speaker. Then Richard pulls the curtain and reveals the winner. SURPRISEE Got ya The Hifi Guy
Where are the Goners who enjoy talking about the eight amps they bought so far in 2021? They are posturing as members of the rich and famous. So lease a space of 5.000 sqft somewhere central like Denver or Phoenix and I will volunteer gather all the equipment required from makers who want to participate. PM me if anyone is serious about this.
Long time ago my brother auditioned speakers in audio store. Salesman stated that first speaker is so good, that basically there is no need for anything else and it sounded good indeed. Then he presented more expensive one just in case "if my brother’s hearing apparatus is superior". This speaker sounded better than the first one. Then he presented top of the line speaker that sounded wonderful. He left my brother in silence for 5 min. serving other client and then offered one more speaker that is less expensive, but as good sounding as the top of the line one - a real bargain. It sounded great and my brother bought it. He found later that it was the first one he listened to. It was twenty years ago, but he still likes them (Cabasse).
There are so many factors involved, including suggestion (placebo effect), passing time, amount of time in between, music piece etc. that it is difficult to tell the difference. I’m pretty sure all speakers don’t sound the same, so Richard Gray’s experiment shows only uselessness of the method.
Look High quality midrange has been around since the 1929 Field Coil, Colortura made in the USA, Chicago. I've not heard such pure midrange in any modern speaker. Sure not all FC's post this 1929 were as pure in midrange, All I am saying is high quality midrange started as a Field Coil and now its going full circle back to Field Coils. Back to where it all began. In 20 years every speaker will be FC;s, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qrqv5nOjLuw
music piece etc. that it is difficult to tell the difference.
Oh for sure, Some retailers have the sound room so perfectly set up, you'd buy a set of Bose. Test cds make a huge impression on the unsuspecting, room treatment, thick carpet, Its a trap. It took sometime to get a understanding in these cheap full range, At the 1st I loved brand X,,,well then onto to brand Y,,hummm, Y was superior, last I added a david Louis, 4 inch, blew away the other 3 full range. Now I can hear the DL is OK, not worth any more than the $200 I paid, = You get what you pay for. But surely these DL 4;s offer a (much) better sound stage than your average xover box thing. There is something about these full range technology which require no xover, that allows more of the music to pass effortlessly through the speaker. xover things can not compete. I am quite sure the David Louis higher end speakers are even better, But I'm not interested in 2nd rate any longer. I am going for The ~~top dawgs~ At this point , why settle for less? Cost me about $500-$600 in the FR testing experiement. With that completed, now i am fully convinced high sens/full range is the only speaker for my music. Will they beat out the Seas Excel in the bass? Can't say. Or the Magnoxov horn in the highs?
We have to keep experiementing til we find the ideal equation. And we share our findings here. If there was a dome tweeter that made mids like the 1929 Colortura, I;'d have it in my system. Only a high sens can reproduce these fine mids.
Look there was a time longgg agio when the Audiogoners were like into the latest/newest/best in its class components. Things were different back then. Although I will say this forum has been heavily biased towards the box/xover things. My testimiony is those things are dinasuars. This judgement is based on 40 yrs off/on interest in all things hifi audio. The final component to making my sysytem truly world class high fidelity is just months away, Would have been sooner had I not made a very poor decision to jump into a tube fliiping business. Buy low/sell higher. Lost $1200-$1500. + The upgrades to the Thors set me back $1200++. Some of this may be salvagable, as if the Vox do not put out bass that can surpass the W18E001's, well the Dual W18's will be the bass section.
Any-hoot If we held a ~~Guess the speaker~~~ audition, its my guess the 2 high sens would have stood out. And if we did a 2nd such Guess Test, with the big guns, speakers over $20k - $100k. WEll now we are into the big horn deals, (which are not wife friendly),,,and brought in the the 2 labs making Feild Coils, my guess is they would place top in the Big Dawgs class. End results would be: Shootout twix the top horns vs Field Coils, Big box/xover things will be shown clearly as *impaired, faulty imaging*. Honestly.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ You mean a summation of all I am trying to get across 1929 Colortura Field Coil, Most perfect mids Klangfilm other FC came along. Some not so successful. Now enter xovers. Inefficient, wet blankets 2015, enters in new high sens designs from 3 labs, 2 in Germany, 1 in Japan Hardly made frontt page news. Audiophiles fear what they do not understand. Stuck in old ways, old beliefs. As long as the $$ keep flowing into xover box things, FC may never become avaliable at a price we can all afford. Plesae buy High Sens, this way you are helping the new 21st C speakers to become more avaliable at a better price. Translated. You are holding back technology from offering us more selection and a better price.
First off, you can't listen to speakers through curtains, second off the speakers will not be optimally positioned. They are very likely to have different requirements. Third of all, speakers have such varying characteristics that it is almost always going to come down to taste. Which varies from one listener to another.
Auditioning speakers is totally up to the individual and it seems most people gravitate to the most, the most high end, the most bass, the most presence, etc. It is unusual for a person who is not a very experienced listener to select a balanced speaker that has exceptional imaging. It is the speaker that attracts the least attention.
Having said all that rubbish a great loudspeaker system pumped up with a lot of power playing Waiting for Columbus at 95 dB is a special thing to hear.
I just wrote Tampa Audio show, sadly they canceled 2021, but in 2022 I suggested they invite both AER and Vox at whatever cost,. = Will be the biggest draw/most popular rooms, Long lines could get unruly, Advised make a sign up list, this way no one has to wait in long lines and fight to get ahead of the others. So 2022 is your chance to hear the big guns in high sens speakers.
Shows don't pay people to display. Manufacturers, distributors, and dealers pay the show organizers to display. I have been to a number of shows and have never seen unruliness over any room. Plus, the brands you are talking about have been at shows I have attended. They were no more in demand than any other room. Just because you have lost your mind over them doesn't mean everyone else will.
If we madea survey of top 1000 audiogon members with this Q Are you interested in Highs ens, Full Range speakerS? 1) NO, not at all 2) Somewhat 3) Yes 900 in #1 50 in #2 50 in #3 Fast forward 10 yrs from now, 2031 1 300 nah's 2 300 yes very interested 3 400 I already own a pair As the poet wrote so accurately **The Times they are a changin..*
" I’ve not heard such pure midrange in any modern speaker." care to list the speakers youve had in the past? its quite obvious you havent own much, and you make your SQ opinion on youtube vids
"
Plesae buy High Sens, this way you are helping the new 21st C speakers to become more avaliable at a better price." you have to be a troll to say such weird claims
Actually The Town crier. FR/High sens mids are completely totally opposites, \ Black N White, Either /OR, 20 yrs ago i initiated a Speaker Shootout at the OK Corral, Odd I recall, FR /High sens were hardly ever mentioned AND never ever completely explained. Its like the dark ages, 500/800 Goth times, Where news takes years to travel, and when news does finally get to where its going, its all tistorted news. Here is the simple clear undenyable truth Mids from a xover design can not compete isa spaeker shootout with a high tech FR/High sens, Can't, Trust me, if we made this comapre with the worlds best 3 top xover midarnge vs either Vox or AER, Your xover mids would fail the UNBIASED testing. Where are you going to find honest fair judging critics???? Not that I know of any,,Ohh Stereophile,,yeah, they always get it so accurate... I am speaking pure musical zero distortion mids, there is no xover speaker ever that will stand the high sens testing. Trust me, I got 40 yrs listening. I know a speaker when I hear one. I block the bass and highs when testing. . Its only mids I am interested in.
Look I really am only looking for comments from those members who have actually heard with their own ears a high sens new high tech speaker, All others, read, but please withold your snidey smirks. Go listen to one, THEN come back and a make a comment Thanks THe Hifi Guy
High sensitivity would most likely affect your perceptions if the demo or comparison was not precisely level calibrated. Even 1/2 dB of additional [SPL] output is enough to COMPLETELY convince you one speaker sounds better than another. You'd put money on it - you'd even buy the winner.
This is a very old hi fi demo trick where a highly skilled sales person can control the outcome of any demo by subtle level differences. Often the salesperson is unaware of these differences themselves, unless they have had extensive listening training/experience. With most hi fi gear unable to repeat the same exact L/R level over and over because pots (volume controls) are mechanical wipers that can vary, the only way around it is precise stepped attenuators that are mostly 1/2dB or more. It may not be enough precision as 1/4dB across a large portion of the audio spectrum is definitely audible.
This is the exact problem of passive crossovers, they cannot account for sensitivity variance of production that is always more than 1/4 to 1/2 dB, its often more than 1 to 3 dB. Cheap machine made drivers often have a "acceptable variance" of 6dB. Passive crossovers cannot be controlled precisely enough to adjust for this variance. You are literally swapping out parts in the passive crossover trying to match levels and youo wont get there perfectly, only within a dB or 2. Your perception "this speaker is brighter than the one I heard in the store may actually be true because the drivers vary every so slightly in sensitivity (the more sensitive one sounding like it has better low end and high end). The manufacturer themselves cannot adjust for this, they just try and get close.
Precise level control in a shoot out is extremely difficult with the obvious varying sensitivity of multiple complete speaker systems. Most preamps do not have enough resolution to adjust in 1/4 dB increments. Most switchers are not good enough themselves to get precise (+/-1/4dB) level control. Audio memory does not last long enough to manually switch cables over and have it be an accurate A/B. So shootouts are useless without an inordinate amount of time being spent on precision level calibration.
With room effects changing every single speaker in the room, the differences in position of each speaker are the smoking gun that position ALONE is responsible for many significant spectral changes that you perceive as "qualities". Room influences of speaker position or YOUR position are responsible for many of the "I swear to God I hear more/less xyz" that we attribute to various system components.
Look I really am only looking for comments from those members who have actually heard with their own ears a high sens new high tech speaker, All others, read, but please withold your snidey smirks. Go listen to one, THEN come back and a make a comment
Tekton Moab here. High sens? 98dB, check! New high tech? MTM array, check! What do you want to know?
" Go listen to one, THEN come back and a make a comment" just to make this clear, you never heard Voxativ, AER, PHL, Supravox, totl fostex. so you never had in your room any wideband speakers. wow.
’’I am speaking pure musical zero distortion mids,’’ but you never heard them
"there is no xover speaker ever that will stand the high sens testing." to know for sure, one would have to listen to every passive, then every active speakers, then listen to all the best wideband design, you cannot even say what youve owned cause all youve had for 20 years its those Troel design. time for you to go out and listen rather then make such claims.
"Trust me, I got 40 yrs listening." I would be worried if someone trust you
"I know a speaker when I hear one" lol, on youtube
Im almost sure you are either a troll or Kenjit.
"
If we madea survey of top 1000 audiogon members with this Q Are you interested in Highs ens, Full Range speakerS? 1) NO, not at all 2) Somewhat 3) Yes 900 in #1 50 in #2 50 in #3 Fast forward 10 yrs from now, 2031 1 300 nah's 2 300 yes very interested 3 400 I already own a pair As the poet wrote so accurately **The Times they are a changin..* "
NEWS BREAK Say my tech geek who has actually built the amps for 2 of his clients here in New Orleans, designed for Field Coils, Quote: **a FC does not do anything more than what a good Magnet (Neo) can do* OK no issue there. Of course the 2 FC's he has heard are not Vox. OK so lets skip the FC for right now. Of course I have heard various cheap chinese *full Range*, and all beat out the Seas in most areas. Trust me I don't need to acutally hear a high quality FR/High Sens,. based on my 40 yrs exp , I know already what a speaker will sound like just by looking at the design, materials used, specs. I have zero doubt the finest mids in any speaker design in the world are those of AER and Voxativ. I have ~~40~~ years of knowledge and experience. Back in 1975 a friend and I gave thumbs up to the Electro Voice Alpha 1's vs Macintosh massive 20++ speaker design. I've heard countless box designs. None have impressed me in mids like these cheap chinese junk , have. That said, they do have fatigue. Which AER and Vox has none of. I've read the testimonies on both drivers. All agree these 2 labs have the highest fidelity in any speaker they have ever heard in their entire audiophile experience. Why would they lie? You folks are just resisting change, failing to embrace the new technology. Why the rejection? I started the longest, at least one of the longest threads here on Agon, back in 2001ish, andNow some 20 yrs later I have found the answer I've been looking for. Full Range/High Sens, is EXACTLY the answer to my searching. Clues here and there past months have paid off. Spent hours and hours of reseach. And its paid off, ] Big time.
I'm glad you like your FR speakers. That is what I used (Lowther) for 20 plus years in my system & enjoyed them very much. I moved on from them though. First to Tekton, then Wilson, & now B&W. That stated, speakers are just part of the system & I have no doubt you could make FR speakers sound better than "conventional speakers" IF you're using a low powered tube amplifier during your "blindfold test" for all the speakers being tested. That is after all what makes a FR speaker shine. If however you used a quality high end 300 WPC SS amplifier (or mono blocks) in your test, the Tekton, Wilson, or high end B&W speakers would excel. This doesn't mean your FR speakers are losers (they are not), just that the system was wrong for them.
" Why the rejection?" I’ll talk for myself. I have owned and heard some of the most reknowned wideband drivers ever built. I do agree they excel in the mids. but every wideband Ive ever had or heard, needed at the minimum a supertweeter for over 8khz and subs crossed quite high. so while they are magic in the mids, they have no balls nor any super HF. Contrary to you, while I appreciate pure mids, not to the extent that ill accept to have the purest mids without enough bass. just like in headphone world. the Raal sr-1 are widely known as the most transparent in the mids. yet people eventually move on cause they seriously lacks bass.
I cannot live with a pure wideband, I need a supertweeter and woofer or subs, turning that system effectively into a 3-way.
Some might be able to live with say a 8" wideband without any bass of HF support, but many cant.
" You folks are just resisting change, failing to embrace the new technology." wideband along horns are the opposite of new tech, they were the first speaker desings.
" Full Range/High Sens, is EXACTLY the answer to my searching." glad your happy! personally i found happiness in a diy hi-eff 3-way with 15’’ woofers
using a low powered tube amplifier during your "blindfold test" for all the speakers being tested. That is after all what makes a FR speaker shine
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Yes it may bea issue **all things being equal** as you point out , high sens really shine best with SET's. So indeed , we will need 2 amplifications. For good or bad, I plan to pair the high sens with the Defy7. Not sure how thats going to work out til its all set up. maybe not a match made in heaven, they'll just have to learn to get along. I will keep all posted on the results. Folks who live in my area are welcomed to have a listen. Sometime in Sept should be up and running. If you care to, bring your speakers.
Here is a example of bass response ina high sens speaker, Of course I would never pay $$$$ for this speaker, when I can order the single driver and build my own design for alottt less. The bass at 5:44 has my lil comp speakers rattling like a SUB WOOFER and about to vibrate off the desk. Folks this bass is all you need = sub not needed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrIa6Z2Akjg
The power of High sens drivers, WOW My intent was to employ as a midrange, but hey is the bass is there, out comes the Seas dual W18E001/with gorgeous Mundor Supreme caps. One heck of a shootout there, Single driver bass vs DUAL!!! W18E001's/Mundorf SESGO+ Supreme Silver. Will keep you guys posted on that fast gun draw.
YES! Using youtube to judge anything except, perhaps, appearance makes no sense at all. On top of that, making any kind of universal judgment based on anything less than extensive personal experience is also nonsense.
I agree with you that most wide range drivers are best used in multi-way systems. Such systems, done right, will retain the immediacy and great presence in the midrange while sounding fuller, smoother and more refined than most single driver systems. I think having the crossovers come into play well outside the heart of the midrange is a big help.
I first used YouTube videos to listen to Koetsu Black Goldline before buying. Let There Be Sound! lists the components used. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4m3UTQkUVU Listening to several of these allowed me to compare this Koetsu with some others, as well as hearing the Herron phono stage.
Here is my system https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/8367 Every single component you see was purchased on the basis of reviews and/or YouTube "auditions". None of this has been brought home for audition. I have never in all that time (now well over 16 years) felt the need to send anything back. Far from it, everything has performed well beyond expectations.
Study this system. When I say every single thing, I mean every single thing. Conqueror tone arm. Verus motor controller. Herron phono stage. Melody amp. Tekton speakers. And a whole slew of tweaks too numerous to mention.
Next I would invite you to read the listener comments.
Finally, you might want to reconsider your use of the word, "nonsense".
murphythecat170 posts06-26-2021 9:22pm" Why the rejection?" I’ll talk for myself. I have owned and heard some of the most reknowned wideband drivers ever built. I do agree they excel in the mids. but every wideband Ive ever had or heard, needed at the minimum a supertweeter for over 8khz and subs crossed quite high. so while they are magic in the mids, they have no balls nor any super HF. Contrary to you, while I appreciate pure mids, not to the extent that ill accept to have the purest mids without enough bass.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Now we are getting somewhere. Someone why has owned and is willing to offer his critique of the strengths and weaknesses of *wide band/FR/High sens silnger drivers*
~~~Excel in the mids~~~ As I've mentioned , my cd/LP collection is all classical. Thus my criterion that a speaker voices midrange, from say,, 1khz-10khz with the highest possible fidelity. Picking up the subtle nuances spread throughout a classical recording. Actually I can **almost** live with this cheap 4 inch chinese *wide band*, caveat here is , needs bass and a high end 12k+ hz tweeter. The bass in the Seas W18's although sens is low at 87, will work for my needs, = cello section, kettle drums. Highs,, well I can find some horn to take care of the 12k+ hz's. Its always beeen a issue to find the midrange section that my classical music requires to note all the tinest nuances within a full range orchestra. Upon experimenting with various cheap chinese single drivers,,seems this design holds the promise to present my classical music like it should be presented.
This is the purpose of this topic. Midrange. If we placea curtain over vaious speakers, the higher sens, will come out ahead as most notable in the midrange. As noted by lonemountain above, where he states **the higher esns will be noted as a superior image vs the xover/low sens** I am paraphrasing his ideas.
Again, if the bass is weak in the wide band which is under consideration , I am prepared to keep the Seas W18E001's as bass. If the 12K+ hz, I find are rolled off, , again, the Magnovox horn will work out.
~IF~ the wide band that I am looking at, voices midrange 1K-10K with the fidelity I hope for/expect/demand,,,then the reseach/testing will have paid off. Others may choose to follow my path, or at least consider some of my ideas and go on their own project to a **Frankenstein*.
YES! Using youtube to judge anything except, perhaps, appearance makes no sense at all. On top of that, making any kind of universal judgment based on anything less than extensive personal experience is also nonsense.
I agree with you that most wide range drivers are best used in multi-way systems. Such systems, done right, will retain the immediacy and great presence in the midrange while sounding fuller, smoother and more refined than most single driver systems. I think having the crossovers come into play well outside the heart of the midrange is a big help.
~~~~~~~~ YT allows at least a hint of what to expect.
Ok ~~wide band are best used ina muti-way systems~~ I am prepared to employ the Seas W18's as bass, Magnovox horn for highs, both offering pretty good bass/highs.
~~Great presence in the midrange~~~
This has been my quest for a very long time, racking my brain hour after hour on Seas web site to figure a solution to voicing midrange , wtth depth, height, rich details.. My hunch after testing various cheap wide band, is that the higher end wide band seems to be the answer for vocing full symphony orchestra. I did speak witha local tech geek today, he feels, its possible the single wide band may fall short of delivering full orchestar, = might fall apart under the load. I did mention, there is not 1 YT vid should any wide band with a performance of a full orchestra symphony in full force. Will this single driver get all discombobalated/flustered in ~~crunch time~~?? All the YT uploads on wide band involve easy jazz, music which any speaker can pull off with some degree of success.
You know, I just cked out a massive 3 way Edgar Horn system with 15 inch sub on Youtube, pity we did not get to hear it perform. Anyway, after watching the owner give his history of this massive 4 way *ultimate* FullEST range speaker, I got to thinking, of what requirements do I need to voice the music I listen to, classical. Much of my collection is chamber, solo instrument, small orchestra, all the way to full symphony sound stage. This style of music is not so dependent on sub fq's , nor super high hz's. Jazz, both light, and heavy swing full orchestra jazz, does present different spectrums in the soundstage fq range. Plenty of drums, bass guitar, here the bass and tweeter will be pushed to demands which a *wide band* may not deliver to meet the satisfactions of the audiophile. I get that. The *meat and potatoes* fq's of classical music fall solid and heavy in the midrange hz's. It is this midrange hz's hich according to some reviews, where wide band single drivers really shine. My search for this *golden voice* of midrange may be finally over. Only IF I can get the KT88 PP amplification to work with this higher sens wide band driver. When I get the wide band, I will borrow 2 other amps from my local tech, his EL34 modded single mono blocks Dynaco mark4's, pair of EL34 each mono with a single 12AU7 and another larger type pre tube, can't recall the number. THe other amp will be his DIY 250 SET amp.
As we all know the EL34 has this special character for voicing mids superior to the KT88, and ideal for high sens wide band drivers. I will test with various styles of music, to see how these 3 tubes presents music in each style. Stay tuned.
Low string on a cello = 65hz There you have it, the 20hz-40hz, not really needed to voice full symphony orchestra. Kettle drums, eh, , 40hz will be just fine. All is shaping up to be my 1st time with a ~~real deal~~ high fidelity speaker. Now if I could just sell my Cayin cd17/Mundorf Caps = speakers ordered. Stay tuned folks The Hifi Guy
Blindfold testing is not a good way of testing. You need set up a room with a transparent screen with appropriate lighting so you can’t see the speaker behind it. Take your recordings of say piano, human voice, drums etc and pick the most accurate for lows mids and highs and I doubt you will find a complete speaker. Always compromises.
If you go into a room with something covering your eyes the brain reacts differently so in turn affects your mood and hearing.
Also, I don’t like blind tests. Best to set up gear like say if you want to test for cable differences you ask the subject how you like your music ( with say Nordost Odin). Listen as long as you want. Ask the person to leave and have a quick drink of of water outside where your accomplice switches out the cable (that you can’t see) to Belden. Later come back in and listen to same music selection again to see if the person says anything. If they say sounds great then little to no differences. But if they say doesn’t sound the same something is not quite right then you have your answer. Don’t buy into BS you have to do quick switching. For example if you are trained in playing piano and if it’s off key or tempo, timbre is off or something is different you will spot it like that. That’s why when auditioning you bring your own music. And if you can’t hear anything different then the $10k interconnect has little to no difference. Enjoy ☺️
That’s why when auditioning you bring your own music. And if you can’t hear anything different then the $10k interconnect has little to no difference. Enjoy ☺️
Yes agree, The olds of old, going to a show room all set perfectly, with the best sounding test cds, Blew us all away,,**yeah I'll take a pair*** later on,,,hummm, lol,,,not really sure i like these speakers,,,hummm,,,lol What we all should have done, was to bring our own speakers and shootout with the dealers speakers.. This way we can compare how the the promo speaker really sounds, HYped, pumped up,,, we will hear more clearly. I am wide band fan. . Can;t be any other speaker. For me, wide band sound is *thinking outside the box* *Opening the cages and letting the doves fly free*
The idea of a true blind test is just a hypothetical; it is not something that could be implemented for gleaning any meaningful information. Just on speaker setup alone, it takes MANY hours just to set up one pair of speakers, and movement of just an inch or two can result in major changes in sound (if one is moving into or out of a node). There really can be only one pair sitting in an "ideal" spot. Also, speakers interact with each other so that the sound of one pair in a room is quite different from that with many other pairs in the room. There are a host of other issues that make this sort of comparison problematic.
Since you believe that one can make comparisons by viewing youtube videos, why don't you do videos (dark of course, so their is no image) with each speaker set up ideally in the same room? That way each viewer can spend as much time on each blind video as the listener want to hear and the listener can make a choice when comfortable with his or her judgment. You can then compile the results of preferences. That way we will have some sort of valid information--which speaker sounds best when heard as a crappy youtube video.
All I am trying to get across is the idea High sens wide band sound completely, totally different voicing vs xover designs. Thats all I am saying here. Line up 10 xover and 1 wide band. Anyone with even a moderate sensibility to audiophile quality spaekers, will be able to detect which of the 1 speakes is the wide band/high sensitivity. That is my point. I am not at all saying the 10 xover designs are not audiophile quality, just saying the voicing is completely different in the midrange, 1500khz - 6k hz
Voicing implies intent and there is very little intent in that regard. The driver manufacturers are designing to specific parameters. The final loudspeaker system designer may be trying to make the system sound a certain way but in very few instances do the modify the driver. And, in most instances they are not listening to the loudspeaker, they are measuring it. Competent designers know how to juggle measured parameters t make a speaker sound a certain way within the limitations of the design. Full range dynamic drivers have some severe limitations that will keep them from producing the results one can get with a multi driver system. Just a fact of life. This is why manufacturers who are intent on making SOTA loudspeaker do not use full range drivers with the exception of ESLs.
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