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Big speakers in small room at moderate volume levels

My office is 11’W x 10’L x 9’H and is where I can listen to music for the next few years. I have a toddler and, for now, he has commanded the big spaces in the rest of the house. I have auditioned the Magico A3 and wanted to buy it but that was before I was relegated to the smallish office (I was expecting to move to a bigger room). I have removed the closet doors in this office room. The removal of the closet door gives me another 4 feet of depth to this room, though for only 1/2 width of the room. I can sit unobstructed 8 feet away from the speakers before I hit the area where the closet ends (so near field listening).

I currently I have KEF LS50 with Peachtree Nova 150. It is good and I can listen for the whole day without fatigue. I listen to FM, digital files on ROON, and my Sony SCD-1 SACD player. I want a bigger sound so I am looking at bigger speakers. I also do not want to use a sub since I am not a fan. I will also upgrade the NOVA 150 to the NOVA 500 in Spring 2019 and use with the LS50’s in a bedroom.

I came to the conclusion that my tastes would be best served by one of KEF Reference 1 or Magico A3. I was thinking that I would use the Lyngdorf 3400 in this room but I am having seconds thoughts on this now (some A’gon comments that it maybe a little dry). I am interested in solid state AB units like the Hegel H590 and Mark Levinson 585 to drive the speakers. I have heard the ML 585 and it is a fatigue free sounding unit that was a joy to listen to. I have not heard the Hegel H590 yet (but have heard other Hegels with KEF) and I am in the process of getting an audition of the H590. I have also discounted the class AB Micromega M-One 150 (with MARS room correction) because I do not want a cooling fan blowing in the room.

I must mention that I do not listen that loud when I am working and when I am working very late at night the volume is very low. The Mark Levinson and A3 combo was very good at low volumes during my demo but that was in the dealers perfect large room.

1) Am I making a mistake foregoing room correction with the 2 integrateds I am considering? Should I go with the Lyngdorf and A3 or KEF Ref 1, though I have never heard the Lyngdorf?

2) Will the Magico A3 work in this small room at moderate volumes WITHOUT room correction or will I subject myself to headaches and fatigue?

I am going to ask the dealer selling the A3’s this question when I am ready to buy but i wanted to ask on A’gon first to get some feedback. I doubt I could get the A3’s into my room for a trial but I have not asked the dealer yet.

I think (not 100% sure) the KEF Reference 1 with a non room correcting amp should work in my office space but I would prefer to buy the Magico A3 for the office. I have plans to buy another KEF model once my kid is a bit older and I can kick him out of the big room.
yyzsantabarbara
260 responses Add your response
gosta's avatar
gosta
839 posts
 
Since you’re so happy with the LS50, why don’t you try the Ref 1?
I’m right now listening to the 201/2 model in a near-field setup and crossed at 100Hz. It delivers a huge, very dynamic and very detailed/transparent sound with maybe the best mid and upper bass I’ve had. The troublesome bass solo on Rickie Lee Jones "Easy money" is just fine. Gregory Porter the same. You can "see" his a big guy...The 201 tweeter can be a little tuff on lesser recordings (I like that - more live/true feeling). The Ref 1 more polished I'm sure.

yyzsantabarbara OP
4,810 posts
 
@gosta My speakers in the last 10 years due to lack of space:

1) AudioengineUSA 2 (maybe 5 years)
2) Thiel SCS4 (2 years)
3) KEF LS50 (3 years)
4) Audience 1+1 V3 (9 months)

I finally have some space and I will not buy another stand mount. Just sick and tired of them.

gosta's avatar
gosta
839 posts
 
Alright, I can see it’s time for a floorstander :-)

Because you are sitting behind a desk, and your room isn’t that large I think you really need some room correction. I have the same situation.
A small unit that is a really great tool and a step into the RC world is the Paradigm PW amp with sub out and ARC2 RC system. Works very fine. I prefer it to the Lyngdorf because you can adjust the result, you can easily play with several adjustment files and you get to see the frequency curve before and after (true or not..). Integrates subs very fine and it’s a small cost. Find out what it can do to your present listening. It has power enough to drive the KEF 201/2 as near-fields. To get the ARC2 RC system you need to buy an Anthem or Paradigm amp or processor.

To your fullrange list I would add the PMC Fact 12 and why not the Tannoy DC 10T (for another presentation). The new Yamaha on your list is very exciting. Actually I’m an ATC fan....so why not the 150 SL... (they easily disappear in the room :-))

How are the Audience 1+1 V3? I’ve been having thoughts about them.
yyzsantabarbara OP
4,810 posts
 
@gosta In my posts on this tread I have been going back and forth stating I need to get a stand mount or floor stander. The reason being when I started setting up the LS50’s in my office the sound was fatiguing. So I was under the impression that l would be resigned to another small stand mount. However, as I have added acoustic treatments and done the other things mentioned I realize that I can get a small floor stander in this room. I have no doubt about that now.

One thing I will get is a preamp with DSP as a safety net device to integrate the floor stander in the office. I have mentioned 3 DSP units that I am considering based on feature set and ease of DSP use. They are Lyngdorf 3400, Linn Selekt DSM, and the Anthem STR. I will be doing a DSP shootout soon at an audio deal who has a small conference room with glass panels. We will put the rather large Paradigm Persona 5F in there and fire away. That dealer is actually very interested in hearing the results themselves.

I recently found out that the Linn unit will not have a "high quality" analog board (it does have an analog board), I also have a tuner and SACD player. So the Linn drops down a lot in consideration. I would have to jump up to the much more expensive Linn units to get the better analog board. So the Lyngdorf and the Anthem STR are the front runners now based on feature set. I would be throwing money away with the Lyngdorf because when I auditioned it I did not like the amp section but I did love the preamp section. We did not test DSP that day. The Anthem has the perfect feature set and if the sound is within range of the Lyngdorf then that would be a great choice. I also heard an all digital setup of the Linn + DSP in a big room and it sounded very good.

The Audience 1+1 V3 is an amazing sounding speaker. It sounds better than the KEF LS50. So why sell that and keep the KEF’s? It was because the imaging was driving me crazy when I sat off-axis, the LS50 was better at this. Now after tuning my room with the treatments and other things, I think I maybe able to get the Audience imaging fixed but at that time I did not know how to fix it. The thing that is amazing about the Audience is the clarity you get in the sound. It is actually a bit like the Vivid speaker, maybe even better. You sometimes felt like you were in the studio with the musicians, especially with my Benchmark AHB2 amp.

I wrote a bit more detail on the Audience to someone else that asked. I will see where that is and send you.

oldtiger
19 posts
 
Room Perfect is amazing!  It will benefit you when you can  move to a bigger room. I recommend Lindorff  for this reason! 
yyzsantabarbara OP
4,810 posts
 
@oldtiger I listened to the Lynbgdorf 2170 (a old demo unit so burned in) and I loved the preamp section. I did not like the amp section and used an external SimAudio amp to hear the beauty of the preamp section. I did not listen to the DSP, but that is in the future shootout.

yyzsantabarbara OP
4,810 posts
 
I have not done my DSP shootout yet due to funds taking longer to magically appear. However, during this time I have been conversing with some folks who have owned the Lyngdorf and the Anthem. My conversation with the dealer on the Linn Selekt had put it at the bottom of the list due to the lack of "high quality" analog input support. They also have no intention of comping out with a better analog board, like Lyngdorf has done.

The summery from all these discussions with A'gon users was that the Anthem STR preamp is likely going be my choice. The feature set of the Anthem is fantastic along with the 2 analog XLR inputs that can go direct without DSP processing (as an option). If the sound quality of the DSP is the same across the 3 units the Anthem is the easy choice.  The Lyngdorf as a preamp is great and it has better support for the analog inputs (compared to the Linn) so I am going to give that unit a good listen. However, the amp section of the Lyngdorf is out in my consideration (kind of wasting money there if I get it).

Now the choice of the speakers is also coming more into focus.

1) Paradigm Person 3F (can be had from $6300 - $10000). This is my first choice and an Anthem STR pre + amp + 3F is what a lot of folks have and they all love it. The smallish forward facing woofers on the 3F maybe better than side firing woofers.

2) The Vivid Kaya 45 is one I know i would like. I liked the Kaya 90 a lot. However, the side firing woofers maybe a bad choice in my small room. Anybody have an opinion on side firing woofers. I had some NHT 2.5 that had side firing woofers on them and they needed some space on the side (20 years ago).

https://www.soundstageultra.com/index.php/equipment-menu/865-vivid-audio-kaya-45-loudspeakers

3) The Yamaha NS5000, I have a feeling this is too big a speaker for the room, but this speaker is now STRONGLY rumored to be coming to the USA. At least I could have an easier time auditioning it. My understanding is the chemical is used in the exterior lacquer needs to pass California import rules. So they may change the lacquer used. Don't quote me on this, but this was the feedback I got from a few guys with knowledge on the Yamaha.

So if anyone is interested in chiming in on the side firing woofer and a small room please do so. Remember the room is acoustically treated.





yyzsantabarbara OP
4,810 posts
 
It has been a while since I updated my quest for my office system. I have been busy with work and life but I have not ignored the advice posted here. 

One set of advice was to give a monitor speaker a second chance, specifically the TAD Me1. Well I did that in Los Angeles this week  after I dropped my dad of at LAX so he could fly back to Toronto (YYZ). I also wanted to hear the Luxman gear that I was always thinking would be a good candidate for me.

The posters here were correct, the TAD Me1 is a great monitor speaker, superb. It also has limited bass but enough bass I would think for my room. The demo was in a large space and the bass was not helped because the walls were not close, but in my room the bass will get reinforced by the room. However, the big deal is that I do not think I need DSP with the TAD Me1, unlike the other floor standers I am considering.

I asked my dad to go to the store in Toronto that carries both the Persona 3F and Yamaha NS 5000 and give his opinion (maybe next week). I read the posts (on another site) of someone would had gone to this store and compared both and he was not enamored with the Yamaha, which is surprising relative to all the glowing reviews.

One thing I did finalize during the recent demo was deciding on which amp to get. I have been mentioning since the beginning of this thread that the Luxman m900u could be the dark horse candidate. After finally hearing it with the Luxman c900u preamp and a Luxman CD/DAC the decision was easy. I am getting the m900u. I also heard the Luxman 509x integrated  but the seperates were too good.

I do like this reviewer and his review on the Luxman m900u is spot on.
https://www.soundstagehifi.com/index.php/equipment-reviews/838-luxman-m-900u-stereo-mono-amplifier

My 3 speaker choices are:

1) Paradigm Persona 3F
2) TAD Me1 (TAD raised price from $10k to $15K again, ridiculous) 
3) Yamaha NS 5000 (should be in USA this summer)

Dropping the Vivid Kaya 45 speaker from consideration since I don't want to deal with side firing woofers.

I have not figured out which preamp, other than the Luxman c900u,  would work well. This could come down to cost and the number of boxes. If my lottery ticket stock investment comes through it will be the Luxman c900u and separate DAC.


rego
378 posts
 
My recommendation would be to Place the Workstation in the best and desired Position.
Then build around the listening position.
Set up in a like manner as a mixing console.
TuneTot sounds amazing for entirely uncorrelated size.
$7000 plus used.
Paired with Octave V80 at RMAF 2018 Demo.
Will work in a smallish room / impress in a larger space.
Checkout Wilson Site and Analog Planet for info.
Currently my local HiFi shop has Featured AR Reference With Sasha.
Room 35'x20' wide (approximate) with mains spaced wide.
Tip Top Sound.
Paradigm and Luxman are on track for no disappointment.


gosta's avatar
gosta
839 posts
 
Audiovector S1 Avantgarde Arréte is another favourite. Preferrably crossed at 100 to subs (as no small monitor really has capacity to play good bass in a normal room).
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