Best turntable for the buck

Agreed, a Technics 1200 is very affordable and a pleasure to use. If you get an old one, extract the power supply and put it in an external box. Mine’s a Mk5 and it holds its own against my Well Tempered Amadeus, Garrard 301s and Linn Sondek. I recommend upgrading the arm though.

it’s apparent that $4000 is not going to bring my analog side to the level that I’m hoping for.

I don’t believe that, but you will have to be very careful not to waste it. It’s possible to spend tens of thousands on analog snake oil. In my experience once you have a low wow turntable (i.e. not a typical belt-drive, with the exception of Well Tempered) I would suggest that the biggest bottleneck is the arm. Even expensive arms take their toll on the signal and most of the loss happens at the bearing.

For example, a Linn Ekos 2 is better than a Well Tempered arm, but make sure you have a very good look around because you can do better still.

Phono stages matter a lot. I recommend spending much more on a phono stage than on a cartridge. Cartridges are consumables and $200 can get you a cartridge which will not hold back your $4000 turntable rig. For example, I play an AT VM540ML through a $3K phono stage and it’s electrifying. I’m also currently using a borrowed retipped My Sonic Lab Eminent on another deck, but I have no preference. It’s finesse versus drama and I enjoy both equally.

I think several of the suggestions on this thread may not get you to the point where you prefer your vinyl source over your digital.

Well, I got the Sutherland 20/20  installed on my system.  The good news is that it sounds fantastic right out of the box!  Night and day difference. Probably a much better choice than getting a new turntable,  

‘The bad news is that somehow, by shutting off one of my two power conditioners in preparation,  I can’t  get it to restart!  I’m going through the jungle of wires behind my set to find the plugs. It may take days.

I really didn’t know how much information was on my records.  It’s amazing that a preamp by itself could make that much difference.  I guess the rest of my setup isn’t that bad after all.

I’m just dumbfounded!

‘The bad news is that somehow, by shutting off one of my two power conditioners in preparation,  I can’t  get it to restart!  I’m going through the jungle of wires behind my set to find the plugs. It may take days

That is a bit of a “discord”?
😎

Can’t be that bad. If it is sorry. I like having a well sorted system and everything in its place.

Good luck in the jungle my man. The world of difference maybe the power conditioner being off line. 

Nice. Now you can post on our thread 

Slaw,

Yes, I think I’m going to be listening to a lot more records.

Well, I got the Sutherland 20/20  installed on my system.  The good news is that it sounds fantastic right out of the box!  Night and day difference. Probably a much better choice than getting a new turntable,

 Yes, I think I’m going to be listening to a lot more records.

It is quite pleasing to see your choice made has been able to create such a positive impression, I know how significant a impact a well chosen Phonostage can have.

I would recluse now , enjoy the Honeymoon Period and get a good few hundred hours on the Phon' and Cart'.

You have made what might be a very good next course of action known in the quotes above, amalgamate the used words from above,

 "Yes, I think I’m going to be listening to a lot more records, Night and Day".     

OP,

Yes, the impact of a great phono stage is incredible. I remember purchasing a $200 “A Recommended Component” Phonostage from Stereophile nearly 40 years ago. It sounded just terrible, I mean really bad. That started my upgrading that only slowed when I bought an Audio Research PH2… but upgraded as fast as I could afford it. The impact only slowed when I bought an $8K (I think) Audio Research PH8… but I continued upgrading and getting benefited to my current ARC REF 3. Really important!

The only downside is that the preamp reveals the flaws in bad records as much as it enhances the quality in good sounding records.
The other issue I’m having (not really a problem but a concern) is the difference in texture between the records and digital sources. Digital sources are more finely etched with better sound staging whereas analog rounds off the edges a bit, but still has wonderful detail.
‘That might be a cartridge issue.

Get a few hundred hours of use under the Phon's belt and then re-evaluate.

Also when all components are with a run in period, there is also the odd device that likes a warm up from usage prior to it letting the full potential be revealed.  

@rvpiano congrats. Regarding your comment about 'rounded edges':

Of course this may be a cart or table issue. It is even be possible it is just different than your digital ( without hearing it I could not presume which is closer to 'real'...). Commonly though it could be related to the need to fine tune cart setup &/or loading at the preamp. Maybe both. Takes time to experiment.

+1 @solypsa 

Actually, it’s a developing proposition. Since I’ve only had the phon 1 and 1/2 days!, my changes in perception are happening moment to moment. I think some breaking in is taking place, as I’m listening constantly. At any rate I’m liking records more and more as I listen.

OP,
“the preamp reveals the flaws in bad records as much as it enhances the quality in good sounding records.‘

“The other issue I’m having (not really a problem but a concern) is the difference in texture between the records and digital sources.”

Both of these are valid and completely fixable problems. How sensitive your system is to bad recordings is a function of how far over to the scrape details / lean side of things your system is… quality of turntable, the “kind of sound” your cartridge has, phono stage, preamp and amp. The Sutherland 20/20 is not really on the cool side, although it is very detailed. So, I would first take a look at the cartridge. Is it described as really detailed? Maybe look for one that is described as musical / natural. Of course, upgrading your table will help as well. Tubed phonostages and preamps can be more natural and warm and not highlight the details (they are still there) and make all but the worst recordings sound better.

i am just trying to say, this is a completely known thing and can be changed. If not now, by your next choice. I struggled with this many times as I built my systems… I learned not to buy stuff that was billed as really highly detailed (at all costs).

As for the second one. Let me say this is the same, completely fixable. The character of my system through digital and analog is exactly the same. This is by design (a lot of years of learning). My Phonostage, and DAC are made by the same company and are at the same level. Also, I have a very good streamer (hence every natural and detailed) and I chose a natural sounding (Koetsu) cartridge. While you might be able to accomplish the sound matching with different companies for the Phono Stage and DAC…it would be challenging.

The other important quality of my system is that all components are ARC tubed equipment. The presentation is very natural… you get all the details… but the details are not over emphasized… it is the overemphasis of details that highlights many recordings in a bad light.

Let me give an example from my own history. I had a great mostly solid state system. When I would put on a classical recording and there was no sound yet (the symphony had not yet started playing)… I would instantly hear the venue… the little sounds reflecting off of the walls and ceilings and the noise floor of my gear. When I do that with my current system I hear mostly silence. Out of nothing comes the music when they start. This identifies what I am calling detail overemphasis. When I go to the symphony… the venue does not slap me in the face… it is there, I can hear it… like my current system.

Many people evaluate a systems performance by how obvious little detailed are (I used to) and not on how realistic proportional the sounds are.  You end up with less musical, picky systems.  You end up listening to the system instead of the music. 

Give this some thought. You have to relate it to your own experiences to grok it in fullness.

ghdprentice,

Thanks so much for sharing your voyage through the seas of audio.
‘Very valuable information.
As I’m listening to the new preamp I’m liking it more and more. It seems, on my system at least, analog and digital have different flavors, both of which I’m enjoying greatly. I wish, like you, I could equalize them, but, for now, I’m appreciating both for what they do.

‘For the time being I’m a happy camper.

OP,

Yes, high end audio is a journey that is best celebrated at every stage.

Nferre66 +1

I had let my collection of 2000+ near mint LPs fall into disuse before buying this Phon. 
‘Now I’m really enjoying them.

@rvpiano

The importance of a high quality phono stage is often ignored.  The phono preamp may have the toughest job on all of audio- amplification of a tiny signal while adding as little noise as possible. On top of that it needs to provide accurate RIAA equalization.

Ron Sutherland really knows his stuff. You’ve bought a very high quality unit that should satisfy for many many years to come. It’ll also easily keep up (or ahead of) improvements in the rest of your playback chain, should you decide to upgrade in the future.

I have the mmf-2.2, it's a giant lemon. The tonearm lift broke in 2 months. I have had so many problems and so little fun, I'd stay away from it