To mesch: I'll provide an overview evaluation when I get TT spinning for a few weeks Thanks, SJ
johnnyb53, I will check out the Shelter 201. Thanks, SJ
Best sounding turntable and cartridge for $1100
I have seen a lot of turntable and cartridges packages in $1000- $1100, such as the Project RPM3 with the Sumiko BP-2 MC. Project Xperience 1 with a Sumiko Pearl MM; Rega Planar 3 with a Elys II cartridge.
I have formerly owned a Rega 3-24 with Elys II and a Project Carbon DC with Ortofon 2M Red (which I did not like at all) . Would like to try something different, but can live with the above brands depending on their overall performance
Need recommendations for turntable/cartridge new or used combo that punches far above its price of $1100. Thank you
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A smart upgrade would be a grey-market Shelter 201. I got one from these guys. Their delivery was very prompt and the item was well-packed and intact. At about $167 with free shipping, the price/performance is a no-brainer (and I have a Denon DL-160--big brother to the DL-110). The Shelter 201 walks away from *anything* in the $100-200 range, and is totally competitive at its USA price of $310. Like I said, at $167 w/free shipping it’s a no-brainer. The Absolute Sound’s rave review of the Polytable was largely conducted with a Shelter 201 cartridge. It gives my Audio Technica AT150Sa a run for the money, and walks away from the Denon DL-160. Best of all, the replacement stylus is a mere $100, making this cart ridiculously cheap to own and maintain. |
Johnnyb5, You are RIGHT ON brother. The designers of the SL1200 knew functionality and performance could be generated in a single package when properly architected and implemented. Not to mention that these tables have some of the lowest wow and flutter figures in the industry and of all time, regardless of makes, models or price. I have a VPI Aries ll and I will put either of my purchased new in box or previously owned 1200s up against it any day. In fact, they have more dynamic punch and superior pace than the VPI. Also, people tend to poo poo the arm but it too is of high quality and correctly implemented. No weakness there. The bearings are high quality and the noise and vibration isolation from the plinth is superb. No wonder these high end tables were adopted for rugged DJ use, they could stand up to the task and perform flawlessly year after year. This table is a high end table first and a DJ table second. No doubt about it. And no maker has equated the direct drive circuitry or precision machining of the 1200 series. Go ahead and deny that I know what I’m talking about. I know what I hear from MANY years of listening to records/LPs/vinyl with many different so-called high end rigs. Happy New Year! Steve |
To fjn04, Well at least I can be accused of picking on audio reviews. No doubt Reichert knows his stuff, but he presents it like a show-off. He needs to put away his lavender Lava Lamp. BTW, thanks for the endorsement of the "U Turn" turntables. It looks like a righteous product To Johhnyb53, Thank you for the information about the Pioneer SLX 1000/ AT 150SA set-up. I just bought a Moon LP-110 phono box through Music Direct on sale for $325.00. Can the Schiit Mani compete with the Moon unit?? I might consider the AT for the "U-Turn" turntable I mentioned above. However, I was thinking of replacing the Ortofon 2M RED which it can be pre-mounted with a Denon DL-110 or DL 103. BTW, there is vendor on ebay whose selling new DL-103 for $159.00 and the DL-110 for 179.00. He appears trustworthy and not a private party seller, but, who knows?? I hope ebay vets its vendors better than Uber does its drivers SJ |
wolf garcia wrote: As an old person, I've always been horrified by "scratchers"…LP Abuse! Tawdry! As a musician I actually get it though, and should get a grip and calm the heck down.Your post helped me realize something. It was the DJs and scratchers with their high wear factor that kept the record stampers running from the late '80s to the mid '00s. If they hadn't been so hard on their records, they wouldn't have needed replacements every few weeks or months. If they had gotten 10-20 years wear out of their records like we do, there wouldn't have been enough demand to keep the supply channels busy. Once LPs caught on again, there were still mastering labs and stamping machines in place to start meeting demand. As demand increased with the true vinyl renaissance, the suppliers found mothballed stampers and refurbished them. So we owe some thanks to DJs, scratchers, and hipster clubbers were so instrumental in keeping vinyl in production. Ditto for hats. These guys brought back stingy-brim fedoras, usually low cost ones made of cloth or straw. But for me, a 60-something who wears genuine fur-felt fedoras, it means nobody treats me like a weirdo because I wear fedoras. So that's two things the millenial hipsters made possible for me. |
sunnyjim: Why not the Pioneer PLX 1000? which retails for $679.00. It looks solid and well made, and got the blessings of that blowhard Herb Reichert who reviews for Stereophile.That was another option I would consider. Take a $679 PLX-1000, add an Audio Technica AT150Sa for $323.69 plus this economical but very effective cherrywood headshell, plus a good phono preamp (e.g., Schiit Mani for $129) and you should have a bangin’, musically involving system. I have the AT150Sa mounted to that very cherrywood headshell, and the results are magic. Gone is any bright glare, replaced by a seductive organic presentation. I marvel at the sound and musicality of everything I play through that setup--jazz, pop vocals, large scale orchestral, etc. BTW, whether you use a pitch control to tune the recording to your instrument is beside the point, which is that THE SL 12X0 SERIES WAS NOT DESIGNED FOR DANCE CLUBS AND SCRATCHERS. It was designed for audiophiles to restore the intended pitch and tempo, and for pitch-matching for musicians. |
I have a friend who loves his "U -Turn" although I haven’t heard one myself. They’re inexpensive and they’re made in my current home state of MA (!). If they made them in China they would be free. LOL- That really is funny. I make it a point never to bring any negativity to these forums, but I have to agree with SJ about Reichert’s reviews. Everything is so hypnotically mesmerizing in a Lava Lamp sort of way. I just have to STOP reading them. Happy New Year! |
To Johnnyb53, I am sure every point you make is true. However, I am not going to play along with the band. Why not the Pioneer PLX 1000? which retails for $679.00. It looks solid and well made, and got the blessings of that blowhard Herb Reichert who reviews for Stereophile It is also less expensive than Technics SL1200 GAE also reviewed in Stereophile. Thanks for the comments. SJ |
sunnyjim sez: I am not sure I want to go the modded TT route. It will or could be expensive, and do I really want a table that has dance club speed and pitch controller.I’m really getting tired of this myth. The Technics SL12x0 series WAS NOT designed as a dance club turntable. It was designed as a high end broadcast and home machine, and later *adopted* by the dance club set for its drive, ruggedness, and yes, speed and pitch matching. But there are home use applications for the speed control too. Not every album was cut at an exact 33-1/3 rpm. A famous example is side one of Miles Davis’ "Kind of Blue." In the Comments section of Michael Fremer’s review of the new Technics SL1200 GAE, when a detractor stated that the speed adjustments "were for DJs and scratchers," Fremer answered: Or...It’s also handy for musicians who want to play along with records, and either have to pitch-match to the instrument or the other way around. If your piano is out of tune, you’re better off adjusting the speed/pitch control. |
Thanks to all who have responded and provided many good TT options. However, I ran across and ad for "U-Turn Audio turntables" on a Stereophile newsletter. I have never heard of this company, but their website is impressive and offers a slide show of the manufacturing process of their tables located in Woburn, Massachusetts. They offer a few models and a "custom option" where the buyer can pick and choose features. I priced out their "Orbit Plus" table with Red plinth, acrylic platter, cueing lift, and a Grado Black cartridge (comes with dustcover and phono cables) The total price was $349.00; and $369.00 with the Ortofon 2M RED.. No matter I could replace either at some point with something much better. The pricing seems very reasonable. Has anyone auditioned or owned one of these tables. If so, would you know how the U-Turn table might compare to the Music Hall 5.1 table with their own Magic 3 cartridges.?? There are several on sale on AG, and also by some internet vendors, like Music Direct, and Soundstage Direct Thanks, SJ |
I was surprised to see an ad for Audioengine line of "turntable". They look nice, and the pricing is reasonable, but the models "Orbit Plus" and "Orbit Special" are pre-packed with "the same old same old": Ortofon OM5e on the Plus and the universal 2M RED on the Orbit Special Neither cartridge sends me into "orbit" Does anyone own or auditioned one of these "bad boys" ?? Thanks, SJ |
In my opinion, you're better off allocating as much as your comfortable with towards the cartridge. I believe you estimated 20% listening would be vinyl. With clean, undamaged lp's, retipping should be many years down the road. I have the version 1 Virtuoso on my Aries Scout, and the sound quality is fantastic. Like you, I have a low tolerance for brightness in a system. Have you considered the Pioneer PLX-1000? While I haven't heard it, there seems to be pretty decent feedback online. While not in vogue these days, a Grado Platinum or Sonata (I've owned both), might be worth considering. |
Of all the options you have mentioned I believe this is the best one if you can stilll get the package for $1000, not so sure for $1599! As I stated in a previous post, my Virtuoso retip was $150 3 or 4 years ago and $250 for the 2nd retip earlier this year I do hope you inform us when you've made your purchase. |
Has any one owned a Marantz 15S1 turntable with the Clearaudio Virtuoso Wood cartridge. The cartridge is now $950 at retail. Seems like a lot of cartridge for this level of table which was made by Clearaudio for Marantz The "last" retail of the combo was $1599 before it was discontinued. Music Direct had a few "factory refurbed" ones on sale $1000 on Black Friday. Does anyone know how it might compare to some of the other tables mentioned in this thread?? Thanks, SJ |
To mb1audio02, Thank you for the heads up about the audio publication via Vandersteen's website. ****************************************************************** I have checked out the Sota Moonbean table . I think they are working on III version. at $850 The table comes with a OEM Rega 202 (?) tonearm and they will set buyers up with a cartridge, like Ortofon 2M Blue, etc ,etc However, there are two problems if you buy direct from them, they don't discount or very little And their dealers are scared to discount Next, their upgrade policy is not an important benefit for me. I am too old to take advantage of it. Even though a dustcover is not a priroity, Sota does not offer one. The table may be ranked high, but it looks cheaply made, and I am not sure it offers good value. However, thank you for the recommendation. . . |
" Back to my previous query, I’m still thinking about that Pro-Ject "The Classic" table as I can change the cart to something I like (for example, Needle Doc gives you 50 bucks off if you want to bag the Silver thing), it has a lid (unlike the Pro-Ject RM tables), it has BALLS (it does…6 of ’em I think), and it seems cheap-ish for what it is. More reviews are in order to help me decide so GET GOING AUDIO COMMUNITY…my Linn Basik won’t last forever." I wish I had 6 balls. Its just not fair. Anyway, It wouldn't be a bad idea to give Cable Company a call. They have a really good selection of vinyl products. See if they can send you some demo's under their loaner program. |
Back to my previous query, I’m still thinking about that Pro-Ject "The Classic" table as I can change the cart to something I like (for example, Needle Doc gives you 50 bucks off if you want to bag the Silver thing), it has a lid (unlike the Pro-Ject RM tables), it has BALLS (it does…6 of ’em I think), and it seems cheap-ish for what it is. More reviews are in order to help me decide so GET GOING AUDIO COMMUNITY…my Linn Basik won’t last forever. |
A really good TT in your price range that many people seem to overlook, is the Sota Moonbeam. Sells for about $800 with an arm. Use the rest for a cart. Sota offers 2 things that I like very much. First is upgrades. They're upgrade selection is probably the best in the industry. Second is trade in policy. They allow you to trade in your TT on a better model, for life. I don't think any other manufacturer has a policy like that. If you don't have a local dealer, Cable Company sells them. They may even have a demo unit to send you. |
@sunnyjim Yes, I agree about not preferring speed/pitch adjustments, and disabling that is one of the common mods. The motor is very robust and one of the strengths of the 1200. Remember this wasn't built for the DJ market, it was designed as a mid-to-highend table and was adopted by DJs etc. because it was so reliable, speed-stable and durably built. These are all good reasons for the modder/tweaker community to embrace it over most others. Only doing a total plinth replacement and more on a SP10, Garrard 301/401 or Lenco 75 is a likely better option for going from something that can evolve into a great table from modest beginnings. The 1200 is the only of these that fits many budgets and that's why there's such a community of shared experience to make it feasible on the cheap. Okay, I'm done ;-) Cheers, Spencer |
sunnyjim, This is off topic, but I noticed you do a lot of research on gear before making a purchase. Also, in another thread of your's, I'm pretty sure I mentioned that you should find some old copies of The Audio Perfectionist Journal because they talk about your Ayre CD player. Its not in print anymore because the person who published it died a couple of years ago. As it turns out, Vandersteen got permission to make the journal available to anyone who wants it. He lists all the issues for free on his website. Aside from reviewing your Ayre, APJ in my opinion, is the best resource for high end audio I've ever seen. By far. You definately want to check it out. http://vandersteen.com//audio-perfectionist-journal |
To sbank. I have seen a couple of used SL-1200 on AG, ebay, and The Music Room. I am NOT blowing off your suggestion and don't think you are crazy either. I am not sure I want to go the modded TT route. It will or could be expensive, and do I really want a table that has dance club speed and pitch controller. Technics should build the same table without the speed and pitch control, and put the dollars into a better tonearm or drive motor.. The TT would be less expensive, and could still compete with tables in its price range, it not higher. Thanks again |
To Wolf Garcia, I have seem this model in Audio Advisor, and Sound StageDirect. But neither is dealing at this time, and even if they did, it would be only 5%. The cartridge billed as the "Silver" Ortofon implies it is a member of their 2M line. Possibly, but I think it might be more like a half step above the 2M RED, but lower performance than the 2M Blue which I owned and sold because it scoops up LP surface noise like a vacuum cleaner. I think you would be better served for a hundred dollars, at $999 with the "bare bones" RPM 3 pre-packed with a Sumiko BP-2 MC which has received very good reviews. However, be careful, because Project looks like they are backing off of prepacking the table with that spike, and reserving it for the more expensive RPM 5. I saw some evidence of this change in the new Music Direct catalogue . Good Luck, SJ |
I've been looking at the Pro-Ject "The Classic" (among other tables) as a replacement for my "it's gonna die someday" trusty Linn Basic/Akito rig. Anybody buy one of these yet? Reviews are pretty good and they got some Euro award…comes with a silver wired Ortofon MM cartridge…blah blah…too new to be discounted yet, but the list of around a grand seems fair. Curious. |
To fjn Where did you audition the Wax Engine turntable?? I found there website, but they have no dealer in the USA. Also, the company is in China and any factory direct sale could entail expensive shipping, and possibly import and/or brokerage fees. I sent them an e-mail about two tables in their line: "Wax Engine": and :"Isolde" I am not hopeful that these tables are worth the money or possible hassles of buying directly from a foreign manufacture which I never heard of before today. Thanks |
sunnyjim.... IMO, a properly set-up HW-19 Mk III (remove the spring suspension and use pucks, level the system, etc.) will outperform anything remotely close in price, new or used, except for a HW-19 Mk IV (typically a few hundred more). Arms are important, but pretty much all the true Mk IIIs have good arms. They are good tables and had good arms installed. And the really great thing about VPI tables is that VPI is still around and supporting their products. |
You may want to check out the Merrill Gem Dandy with the Jelco 750. Put's you a tad out of your $ range, but..... Another thought for less money, would be the WAX Engine table. I've only heard the Wax, and was impressed. I know you're done with vintage, but the Thorens TD145 you had, I believe is the auto-return version of the 160. In that model, you had no other arm options. I would love to hear a Jelco 750 on a TD160 or 160S. Sunnyjim- regarding your thoughts in your initial post: You say you can live with the brands you once had. I don't know either well enough to pass judgment, but I would aim for something beyond which you can live with. Admittedly, I also have a reluctance to dive in to a vintage table. If I do, it will likely be the 160/160S.... I did it with Altec Valencia's 846A's, and have NO regrets, but that's a story for another thread. Cheers, and best of luck! |
Though the Roundtable might be a good value at $300, I highly doubt it will perform as well as most tables in the $1k range. Since you seem to be looking for new instead of used, I highly recommend trying a Pioneer PLX1000 if you don't have an aversion to direct drives. You might be able to find a NOS VPI Traveler for close to $1100 or you might also consider a VPI Player. |
In my world, lower output is a good thing, fewer windings equal less mass and more transparency..... If my only option was HO, I would abandon MC altogether and go with Soundsmith MI or an Ortofon MM like the 2M Red or Bronze, but the quintet is lower in cost..... My solution with my current cartridge which is .1MV is a Hashimoto HM7 stepup transformer, run into my phono pre @ 47k which is giving me the most transparent and organic analog I've ever heard......but I'm sure there are phono pres out there that will handle .3MV just fine.... Thanks |
I had a Clearaudio Virtuoso [mentioned a couple of responses above.] Soundsmith retipping cost $150 for the bare bones installation a couple of years ago and took over three months. Just this year I had another stylus assembly installed for $250 by the Needle Clinic in Bellevue, Wa,. with a turn around time of just two weeks. I found many user and other reviews of the Roundtable on the internet just by clicking the Music Fidelity Roundtable. reviews. |
To stewart0722. Thank you for heads up about MH 5.1. TT Also, I read a few reviews about Ortofon Qunitet Red but never was convinced it was as good as you comment. The only concern is its low output at 0.3 mV . I a brand new Moon LP110 phono stage that is MM/MC. However, I would have to check if it can handle that output; I would want to crank CJ's preamp volume control up to 4'oclock high to get it loud.
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I heard from a dealer friend that he has a mint Music Hall 5.1 for 500.00 Don't know if it has the stock cartridge, but if so, it's an elliptical w/ replaceable stylii. The price would of course allow you to put whatever on it...... I have a backup cartidge, the Ortofon Quintet Red and I have actually placed it for a couple of weeks on a VPI HR-X while I was waiting for a Transfig Proteus to come in and that little red filled the whole room with great music.......it's not for sale.... I now have the Proteus on an Oracle Delphi MK VI 2nd Gen table...... but I still love the Quintet Red.....for the $$ the guy with the Music Hall trade in is referenceanalog.com, he's also a VPI dealer..... |
To boofer, You make good points. But, I just don't want to invest in this table, and later find out, I made an underwhelming choice, and so must start over.. As I said before, it looks solid; and also uses magnetic anti-skating which is a minor feature, but I prefer over "the hook- line and sinker" anti-skating I saw the short paragraph in the HI-FI Choice review. However, if you have the links to some of the other reviews that would be helpful I could not find any others. If I did go for it, I would probably and almost immediately mount the high output Denon DL-110 MC To, bpoletti. Thanks for the recommendation; I have recently seen a few VPI HW 19Jr., but almost none of the MK III. Also with the Denon spike it may go over my prescribed budget. Do you think, the VPI MKIII with the Denon might be superior in sound quality than say Music Hall 5.3 with Ortofon 2M Blue cartridge, or even the Project 1Xpression. The 2Xpression looks very nice and received several good reviews, but I have not seen a used one on AG, or E-bay. Audio Advisor offer it for $1599 with a Sumiko BP-2 MC. But, they offer a crapping 10 percent discount, and won't budge on price I often wonder if many internet sellers think they can sell at retail because of holiday day buying frenzy. Thanks SJ
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I'm coming in here a little late. I might suggest a used VPI HW-19 Mk III. A real Mk III with a steel chassis, not one of those upgraded Jr.'s sitting on MDF. Many of the used ones have very nice arms, Premier FT-3 and -4, a few Jelco SA 750D, maybe a modded AQ. I agree with dodgealum on the OC9. I'm using an OC9/II. Properly set up, the stylus will last a long time. A LONG TIME. And that would be my choice of the phono stage can handle a low output mc cart. Otherwise, the Denon DL-110 might be a strong second choice. I have not heard one myself, but people I trust have said it's a good high output mc cart. |
The Music Hall Roundtable originally came as a 3 part system,. but the components could be sold separately Hi Fi Choice gave it a pretty good review, and there are many other good reviews on the internet. Music Direct even has a demo for $199, and there is free shipping. Although probably a step down from your previous turntables, if you are only playing 20% LPs, this may be a good idea. I read where the Denon 110 has even been used on this table with good results. |
To Helomech, Thank you for the recommendation. I did consider the Marantz 15S1 TT . I believe the refurbished model was $995.00 on "Black Friday" However, the Clearaudio Virtuoso cartridge retails for $900. I can only guess what the replacement stylus on retipping would cost.... between $400-$500. I am not sure what the marketing strategy was putting such an expensive spike on this table. The Clearaudio Performer V2 MM at $400 dollars, or even the Artist V2 MM at $600 would or should kick the price down on a new 15S1. For example,$1200 with the Artist MM, and 1000.00 with the Performer MM: and a "refurbished" 15S1 TT with the latter cartridge might have sold for say $800-850 But who knows what marketing strategies and juggling cartridges were the focus of these manufacturers. Maybe, Marantz got a price break on the Clearaudio Virtuoso V2 MM to make the table more appealing to customers. Just some hardcore arithmetic based on retail pricing might reveal their thoughts. That is,.......... $1500 (TT) minus $900 === $600 as the basic retail value of the TT. I realize this is probably not how the actual selling price is arrived at, because of the other parameters in bi-marketing a product by two separate manufacturers, but it might come close It is a shame that Marantz did not offer the table without cartridge, so the buyers could chose how much they want to spend for a spike Thanks to all, SJ |