analysis plus oval 12 for $198 for an 8 feet pair |
I've seen that some others have recommended Reality and I have to wholeheartadly agree with them. Based on my experience I know of no cable under $1000 that will even touch this cable, it is that good.
---Perhaps Gregg Straley needs to raise the price of his cables to get more attention?....but he's not about taking as much money as he can even though his cables are better than quite a few seriously expensive offerings. |
I was lucky enough to find a used pair of Alphacore MI2's online for under $200 - sound great so far. I'm noticing depth and decay that was missing before. (Decay is a good thing to my ears...) I'm also noticing some sibilance which I think might just be what my electrical system sounds like - running all stock power cords - I think I need to clean up the power to get rid of the sibilance. I wonder if the flat version of the alpha is picking up RFI? What can I do - wrap them in aluminum foil?!
I'm running Alpha on top and kimber 4VS on bottom of Joseph Audio RM22si's - (why, because I had an extra pair and I like biwiring...)
I've written alphacore about the missing zoebel networks and gotten no response so far... |
I went with the JPS Supconductor FX. A dealer just loaned me a pair. I knew absolutely nothing about them -never heard of them before. I trialed one pair of interconnects for a weekend, and they sounded fabulous -and not that much money either. So, I ordered a pair. I played them in my system for a month, and decide to order a second pair. No regrets. I know my ears. These cables sound fantasic, and I found the prices to be quite modest. And I accepted the first pair without burn-in.
I played Gregg's cables for at least 100 hours -no improvement. Then he sent me well burned in cables -no improvement. I tried numerous permutations (I was a test engineer 20 yrs ago, so I'm very methodical about isolating a problem). Same result - no improvement in sound. I was thoroughly depressed, and slightly disgusted. I had $800 worth of cables in my living room, and couldn't get one set of cables to sound good.
I even spoke live with Listener57 recently. We discussed possibilities as to why I believe the cables didn't perform, but came to no definitive conclusions.
The net: I know what sounds good in my system. And I have a fairly discriminating ear. For whatever reason, the Reality Cables didn't perform well in my system. And, believe me, no one was more disappointed than myself. You are the folks whose threads I read about these cables, and thus the primary reason for my initial purchase of Reality Cables. Trust me, I read every single one of your threads prior to purchase. I usually find the collective wisdom of the audiogon population to be generally right on the mark. In this case, we simply have a strong difference of opinion.
The net: I moved on and found some other cables I like more -and still at a reasonable price.
Lesson learned: never buy a large quantity of anything like this without first-hand experience. That was my fault. I ordered four sets of cables with no first-hand listening experience. Next time - order one set of cables, evaluate, and take it from there. |
I just bought a pair of 3m Audience Maestro's off AudioXsell for $175. These have a retail of almost $400. I was using Cardas Cross and in my system these Maestro's kick the Cardas's rear. I have much better bass, transparency, and dynamics. They are still not even broken in yet but very satisfied with them. |
Angel,
Thanks for the tip on the jps supcondutor fx.
What kind of design are they? |
Gdoodle,
I found that many great companies have trouble with their communication. It's almost impossible to reach John Bedini, Richard Vandersteen don't even have email address for public, etc.
The best way to get RC Link (zobel network) is to call Alphacore directly 1-800-836-5920 and ask for Sandu Pescaru. |
Vitalik,
Thanks for the tip. Will give them a call. |
I will second S.D. Campbell on his selection of Kimber 4TC. I have owned it and 8TC as well and felt that the 8TC was much more problematic, particularly with regard to the abudance of bass with this cable. I have found the 4TC to be very neutral, neither hiper-detailed nor lacking in resolution and it is full-range, with excellent extension at both extremes. Excellent evidence of an excellent cable is that as I have seen my system change, the cable never got in the way of revealing the changes in sonic characteristics. I have never felt the need to upgrade the speaker cable. Insofar as my experience with interconnects and JPS Superconductor, although I haven't tried their speaker cable, my guess is that it is a worthy competitor in the budget range as well. My interconnect experience tells me that it might not be as neutral as 4TC, but it is reasonably smooth, a very solid mid-bass, dynamic and clean. To my ears, it has a slight emphasis in the upper mids - not enough to be unpleasant, but enough to be noticeable if you are aware of these things.
This can actually help some recordings by adding a little life, or if your system is on the dark side, it can be just the remedy to breathe a little life in the system. If you are looking for natural sound, you can spend a lot more and not do any better. I have tested many megabuck as well as hightly regarded, moderately-priced cables in my system (predominantly interconnects) and found that they do nothing but overemphasize one part of the frequency spectrum or another and call it an improvement. I think that you are right to go with excellent budget cables. If you want to look around at expensive cable later, you haven't lost much by owning a good budget cable that can be resold without losing any money.
One that I don't have experience with is Goertz Alpha-Core. I see that many have mentioned it favorably here. |
Anglesmtn, the JPS superconductor fx ic in my system sounded bloated and heavy in the bottom end. These to me seemed to roll off the highs to much. Very smooth on top but did not have that clean sparkly sound. They reminded me of the Audio Metallurgy GA-0 with better imaging. I never even would have thought to give these a mention based on price to performance. The Paul Speltz Anti ic's had a cleaner sound with more sparkle and sounded more life like on top. They are a bargain hands down. The Reality Cable ic's just made mince meat out of anything I have tried. The sound just exploded out of my JM Lab ElectraÂ’s. The soundstage grew way outside of the speakers. If anything at all these cables brought an enormous amount of life into this system.
The crashing of cymbals is just startling real with great weight through the frequencies. I would call these very neutral because there is not one frequency I could detect that takes over. The JPS SCFX to me is just not as balanced. You are right about ordering one set of cables and evaluating them and I started with the speaker cables first. This is just more proof that cables are definitely system dependent and synergy is the key to making one happy. I am glad you found your synergy. I guess we better get back to talking about speaker cables now. |
My system is big planars and all tubes (pre, monoblocks, CD). I appreciate alot of air in my system. The old stuff was 15 year old Monster Cable ICs and Kimber speaker cables (black and grey twine), and some more recent Supernal biwired speaker cables (unshielded). The system presented alot of air around instruments and voices. I did come to notice that the cables also presented some unwanted noise -maybe not so much noise.... rather a lack of crispness and clarity.
The Reality Cables immediately took the life right out of my system -first IC, second IC, then rolling in the biwired speaker cables. The system seemed completely dead. I thought something was wrong. I checked circuit breakers, etc. I checked the cable direction. I checked and evaluated dozens of different test cases. I rolled the cables out of the system in reverse order. The life came right back into my system. I thought perhaps the cables needed burnin, so I ran them round the clock for a week. No difference. Gregg then sent balanced ICs as well as SS ICs for evaluation. Same result - no life. After almost two weeks, I finally gave up.
I think that maybe there is some electrical uniqueness that presents itself between the VTLs, the Maggies, and the Reality gear that simply doesn't make for a successful combination. Listener57 conjectured that maybe Gregg was using this certain noice reducing film (sorry, I can't remember the name) that caused everything to sound so deadened. At the end of the day, I don't really know why the cables didn't perform. But I felt like I did everything in my power to give the Reality gear every chance for success.
For me, the JPS gear (purple sheath, RCA jacks - the cheaper stuff) was quiet, crisp and clear. I felt that many reference tracks I listen to (typically jazz, vocal, instrumental) for evaluation came to life in a refreshing way that I hadn't heard before. Maggies can play highs very high. I noticed that the JPS helped tone down the excess noise in the highs. And I felt that the JPS made hard rock sections a bit punchier or full bodied.... which I like as Maggies are not necessarily known for deep, heavy bass sections.
I'm sure there are better cables than JPS. Over time, I might like to try the Red Dawns or other loftier gear just for grins. But at this time, the JPS seems to be hitting the mark with my system. This experience has taught me just how much difference that cables can make in tuning a system.
Jp1208, it's interesting that the characteristics that make for a shortcoming in your system makes for a benefit in mine. |
Rayhall: The 8TC's are half the impedance of the 4TC's, meaning that a stable amplifier should be delivering more power with improved transients across the band into identical speaker loads.
If you ran into low frequency problems when going from 4TC up to the 8TC, my guess is that either the amplifier was having a hard time with the change in impedance ( 4TC's higher impedance acting as a buffer to the amp ) and / or your system componentry leans toward the warm side and you prefer a slightly leaner tonal balance. Might have been a combo of these two factors too. Obviously, one has to choose and use what they like best within the confines of their system. Sean
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Angelsmtn, The effect of ERS cloth
(see musicdirect.com)wrapping to reduce undesirable EMI/RFI may have changed something so that unique lack of synergy with your particular components.
This is usually a desirable product, and I think I recall this is used by Gregg, as well as other designers, during the product optimization process.
Glad you found something that works in your system, although I always find Reality to sound so wonderful in each of my systems. |
What about these Morrow speaker cables? I have seen some positive user reviews. How do they compare to say, Reality, Alpha Core MI-2, Audio Art SC-5, Anti-cables?
I sold the Legacy Classics a while back, but I still am using the old Tara Labs RSC Prime bi-wires in the family room with my Legacy Signature IIs. Will any of these offer me an upgrade in clarity over the RSC Prime? |
Jim Speltz - Anti Cables speaker cables, right here on audiogon. $10 per foot per pair, $200 could get you a 20 foot pair! |
I would also put Pear Comice cables on your short list. |
I just noticed and can't believe I responded to a 2 year old post!! Just wondering, Do posts ever get dropped?? |
OK, I went with a set of Morrow Audio SP2 Reference Speaker Cable. They say it needs 200 hours to fully break in; I'm not sure about this whole break in thing with cables.
The first thing that I noticed about these cables is how light they are. I mean they don't seem to weigh anything. I don't see how they can carry enough current for big bass sound.
So, what I did was to run the Morrow cables to the high frequency posts of the speakers, and then I ran a set of Goertz Alpha Core MI-2 to the low frequency posts. This way, I know I am getting enough juice to the low frequency posts. I guess this is what they call a shotgun bi-wire hookup. Also, I plan to later switch the cables at the speaker posts, and see if I prefer the Morrow or the Goertz sound on the high frequencies.
At this point, I have maybe 20 hours on the Morrow cables. Again the current setup is replacing my 10 year old bi-wire set of Tara Labs RSC Prime cables.
So far, it does seem the mids and highs are very clear with the Morrows on the high frequency posts. I listened a bit to a SACD and am pretty impressed. I will have to do a bunch more listening and continue to break in the cables for a while before making any firmer conclusions. |
Nordost flat 2 or 4 are great cables in this range...2 comes in bulk that your local dealer can terminate or you could do it yourself...i have listened/auditioned many cables in this range...and most everything sounds the same..ie...they dont improve the sound... |
Yep, I must now have maybe a couple hundred hours on the Morrows, and there is definitely a greater sense of palpability of instruments such as drums and guitar than with the Tara Labs. The high frequencies seem to come through better, but not with any apparent increase in stridency or harshness. Strings and orchestra sound very good, and I don't seem to notice any of this "silver glare" that people talk about.
I think I really like this setup. I do still want to reverse the cables, that is, run the Goertz MI2 to the HF terminals of the speakers, with the Morrows then going to the LF terminals. Then, I will mainly compare the highs and mids. |
Anti-Cable will surprise the heck out of you. |
Transparent Cable is awesome! Even the enrty -level cable around $200... |
As a follow up, I tried switching the Morrows to the LF speaker inputs, and the Goertz MI2 to the HF inputs. That didn't last long. There was an obvious loss of HF detail and clarity. Everything seems more natural and clearer with the Morrows on the HF inputs.
The only caveat is that the Morrows are bare wire(as recommended by Morrow), while the MI2 have banana connectors, which may or not be affecting the signal.
Based on this, I think I am going to order a short run of the Morrow for my center channel. |
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Well, I did pick up a run of Morrow SP2(bare wire ends as Morrow suggests) for my center channel. I must say, this is the best and clearest my center speaker has been so far.
Actually, I bi-amped the center speaker by running the Morrow to the HF posts, and some old Esoteric heavy gauge to the LF posts. I had previously been using a set of Alpha Core MI2. The Morrow is immediately noticeably clearer, and without any added harshness or sibilance that I can detect. Again, the MI2 may be at a disadvantage due to being terminated with bananas vs bare wire on the Morrow. I might like to try some MI2 with bare terminations. |
Vic Morrow was great in "Combat". |
let me share an experience, which may seem off topic, but illustrates an important principle.
a fiend was rummaging through a box of interconnect and digital cable. he came upon a digital cable, consontructed as follows:
two parallel runs of enameled wire, 34 gauge, separated by 3/4 inch weather stripping and crimped to a pair of radio shack cheap plastic connectors.
in his system we compared the enameled cable to others and his system sounded terrific with his home-made enameled cable.
then he found a pair of interconnects. wire was around the same gauge , covered by a plastic jacket and the parallel runs were separated by the same 3/4 felt. hooked them up and again the cables acquitted themselves very well.
the point is that the idea of the "best" of anyting is a limited term, because it does not take into account many brands that have not been mentioned.
in addition, it is possible to construct your own which may be better than many of the suggestions.
obviously, if you construct your own, it is time consuming and there may be many rejects.
i would just listen to as many cables in your price range as possible, and learn as much as you can about wire and any information pertaining to speaker amplifier interactions with cable that may lead to unpleasant results. |
