Audio Research LS/Ref or Primaluna EVO Preamp

Sean I ended up with the EVO 400 and from my understanding it is the same as the 300 only difference is XLR which I wanted. I can tell you it is a upgrade from the LS26.  A dealer was telling me that people were trading ARC Ref series preamps for the EVO 400.  I was wanting a LS28 or Ref 3 possibly but he said the LS28 while an upgrade over the LS26 was not THAT substantial.  So far I am very satisfied with the EVO 400 as it does everything better and the 1st place I noticed was in the bass. If I had a complaint with the LS26, that it was a little weak in deeper bass. Of course that is my opinion. The LS26 is a very good preamp but the Primaluna is without a doubt better. 

This is a very interesting thread.  I have the LS26 and have been thinking of upgrading.  I was considering the Cary SLP 98 or 05.  And also the PrimaLuna EVO 300.

Is that going to be a substantial upgrade from the ARC LS26?  I want more of the tube magic but still retain details.

If I was Beavis or Butthead, Kevin would be God. Lol

I do get a kick out of some of his video speaker reviews though.

Thanks Greg for your post. I'm thinking the EVO probably has their house sound as they voice their equipment to the warm side. 90% of listeners prefer it that way but like you said changing tubes can change the flavor somewhat.   

I used to own a Dialogue Premium integrated purchased from Kevin. Rolled many tubes in it and definitely liked its overall presentation but ended up going back to separates. BAT and now ARC. The Ref 110 is the best amp I've ever owned.  Needed it to drive my Thiel 2.7.  

Jjss49 you bring up some valid points especially dealing with the public can be frustrating and exhausting.  I would hate to be in his shoes most of the time having to answer dumbass questions and attitudes.  However,  I'll disagree with your discount statement simply because Upscale usually does offer some sort of price break or so they have in the past on bigger items. Its just good business and people will buy again because they were treated well. Why do you think I called them about both preamps? Satisfied returning customer.  It is what it is and I probably shouldn't have vented on a discussion board 🤷  Upscale does very well and you can't please everyone ALL the time haha. 

If you like the ARC sound, I'd go up the ladder with ARC.  I've only heard one of the previous Primaluna integrateds at a dealer.  It had an intoxicating syrupy sound at first, but after a while, I didn't like how much the sound was colored.  I prefer the neutrality of the ARC house sound.  One of the nice things about the Primaluna is you can roll all kinds of tubes in it.  I believe the one I heard was using EL34s.  I don't know if the newer EVO units have the same house sound.  

I also own a LS26 as well as a Modwright LS100.  The LS100 is in my main system and shares many of the traits of the LS26, but with maybe just a hint more of a "tubey" sound.

retail is a tough business, retail for high end hifi is especially tough... so much education to do, so many naive/idiotic questions (just look at this forum), so many tire kickers just taking advantage, not respecting retailers’ time and energy - when you have done it as long as kevin has, one can see how he can become short and impatient sometimes

in his case with primaluna it is especially complicated as he is importer/national distributor (and part owner too, as i understand it) for the brand as well having his historic upscale audio as a southern california based retail store - so it creates a lot of channel conflict with other dealers whom sell the line...

...how this is typically handled is for each retailer to have their own designated geographic territory - but just like people and covid, borders are artificial and porous, product and customers don’t stay in their lanes, actively cross over, so defined territories really cannot be enforced... for example,i bought my primaluna amp from a dealer in florida who posted an ad on one of the internet equipment sites, i do not live in that state, in fact, nowhere close to it...  

if i were kevin’s shoes, i would think the profit from the importer/distributor level handling all the USA unit sales is much greater than his retailer’s profit for the few units sold through his store, so i too would say ’no discount’ from upscale, in order to protect his total margins earned from products sold through all other retailers... and this sounds like that is exactly the position he is taking at retail...

I don’t know too many dealers that are willing to carry a product if the importer and distributor undercut them on price. It makes for a complicated relationship and limits the price flexibility. 

I’ve bought a few things from Upscale. Kevin can be patient and nice and he can also be a dismissive dick. Probably depends on how many stupid questions he’s heard that day. Try not to take it personally.

I've usually had good luck with Kevin and Upscale but I do know we all have our good and bad days.  In the past few months I've bought a Dynavector 20x2L and a Manley Chinook phono preamp.  However,  a couple days ago I was talking to an online sales guy there inquiring about a Ref 3 and EVO 400. Told him I am a returning customer and what kind of discount could I receive.  He said sorry we can't give a discount on either item. I thought are you kidding me and typed WOW ok.  Ended up buying a EVO from another dealer and he gave me a substantial discount on a new one. It was a no brainer.   Not sure if this salesman was conferring with Kevin or a manager but I doubt I'll do business again.  Very disappointed because I've always had good luck with them.  Kat was wonderful to deal with and I've had some good conversations with Kevin in the past. 

I thought about PL EVO and demoed it a few times. At the time I had a ARC LS15 and was looking to upgrade it. Demoed a used LS25 and it was what I wanted and needed for my system so I bought the LS25. I have had a few experiences with Kevin and none have been a pleasure. Not even when I called him and was asked about a piece of gear he had for sale. I worked in the industry for over 15 years and never dealt with someone so rude and nasty, even when I was looking to buy tubes he told to me to just buy off the internet. Kevin Deal is a total A**HOLE and he will never get any of my money.

Just curious has anyone purchased a EVO from Upscale and did you get a discount?  

Stereo5 how would you describe EVOs sound and/ or presentation? 

I have heard the new Prima Luna and like the sound very much.  I never liked the ARC presentation, so my vote would be for the Prima Luna.  They also hold their value quite well.

ref 3 > evo 400
all day long
esp into arc ref amp