Audio Desk Systeme - Vinyl Cleaner – Repair of Water Pump Failure
After the water
pump of my beloved Vinyl Cleaner from Audio Desk Systeme stopped working I
searched the web and found that I’m not the only one with this problem. But
nowhere did I find a blog or post that would describe a repair procedure –
other than to mail the machine back to Germany for an expensive repair.
If your machine
is still under warranty you should of course send it back for warranty repair.
But if your machine is out of warranty (like mine) and your only option is to
spend lots of money to get it fixed, you might want to consider repairing it
yourself.
The way the
vinyl cleaner is designed does not allow any maintenance or replacement of any
component located inside the machine without destroying something. The whole
machine is glued together! Something I have not seen before to this extent –
especially not on a high dollar item like this. Only the components in the
upper compartment where the white cleaning rollers are located can be accessed
thru the opening in the top cover.
To get started
you need to separate the bottom PVC plate from the bottom of the tank. Both
plates are glued together. I used a flat pry-bar to carefully
separate the bottom plate without breaking it. Shining a flash light thru the
water sight glass you can see the blue water pump thru the drain hole of the
tank.
To get to the
water pump you need to remove the bottom of the tank (or parts of it) which is
glued to the recessed side walls.
Use a permanent
marker to draw straight lines on the tank bottom – 5 mm inbound from the side
walls. The PVC side walls are 5 mm thick. Try to cut slightly inside that line
to not cut into the recessed side walls. I used a Dremel with a cut-off wheel.
Once the bottom
of the tank is removed you have access to the water pump and all other internal
components. To disconnect the pump wires from the main board you need to remove
the front panel with on/off switch. Follow the pump cable from the tank and
disconnect both wires from the terminal.
In my case it
turned out that the pump actually did not fail - it was simply seized up. Once
I rotated the little impeller by hand and hooked it up to the 24 V DC power supply
in the sink it started to pump fine again.
In case you find your pump to be
dead and need a replacement look for “Barwig Tauchpumpe Typ 3 24 V DC”. Price
is around 18 EUR (appr. 20 USD) at amazon.de or conrad.com. Unfortunately I was
not able to find a supplier who would ship to the U.S.. You may need to be
creative – or plan your next vacation in Germany ...
If you use
aquarium grade silicone adhesive instead of strong PVC adhesive to put it all
together you will be able to undo everything easier in case you need to access
the inside of the machine again.
Feel free to email me if you have questions or need pictures.
You're quite welcome! Yes, I too have some reservations about using a silicone-based product because the residue is hard to remove. But, on the other hand, it's a widely-used product in construction, kitchens & bathrooms, also automotive and marine applications. Hopefully the next pump failure won't happen on my watch (I'm an old guy!). By now there's probably enough info in this thread to write a repair manual! :-)
Thanks for the good feedback Fred! With the pump that you found locally repairs are even easier now! Since I posted my instructions in January 2019 I was able to email further information and pictures to a good number of folks with a failed water pump. Instead of the silicone adhesive I found that dark gray gutter glue (HomeDepot) works really well. It sticks a lot better to the PVC-U and remains somewhat flexible/soft over time (like silicone). ADS uses Tangit PVC-U glue to glue everything together. This is great glue for PVC-U, but it gets really hard and does not fill cracks well since it shrinks.
I would like to express my deepest appreciation and
gratitude to Decibell for pioneering a repair method for our Audio Desk Systeme
record cleaning machines. Many of us had resigned ourselves to considering them
unrepairable and therefore worthless. Following his instructions, I was able to
successfully revive mine. Thank you, Decibell!
What I have written below should be considered an “addendum”
to his work. My purpose is only to further help anyone in our community who
might wish to undertake this repair on their own as I did.
Bottom removal:
The bottom plate serves no other purpose than to protect the
bottom of the internal tank and to hold the rubber feet. It is glued to the
tank bottom with PVC cement in 8 locations; one slightly inboard from each
corner, and one slightly inboard from the midpoint of each side, 8 total. Each
glued area is circular in shape and about the size of a 50 cent piece.
I used a putty knife with a sharpened blade and gently
tapped it into each glue point a little at a time, rotating the record cleaner
as I went, until the cover finally popped off.
Tank bottom “surgery” as described by “decibel”.
Pump replacement:
I was unable to get the exact replacement pump but did find
this one which I thought could easily be made to work.
This “Comet” pump was the same size but the discharge tube
exited from the top instead of from the side of the pump body. All I had to do
was to remove the piece of rubber hose from the opening at the top of the tank,
cut a 1” long piece of ½” dia. clear plastic tubing found in any plumbing
supply, install it on the discharge tube of the new pump such that it extended
into the same hole as the old one. Then I used silicone aquarium sealant to
seal around this hose connection and also to bond the pump to the side of the
tank. I also put a “dollop” of silicone over the white protective cover of the
wires to secure it to the top of the tank.
When the silicone had cured (24 hrs), I ran the wiring back
through the original opening and secured it to the circuit board of the control
panel. I sealed this opening with plumbers putty.
I also used plumbers putty, available in a small, plastic
tub, to make a “ledge” for the panel cut
out of the tank bottom. After kneading the putty to make it soft and sticky, I
stuck long, flat strips of it to the inside edge of the opening such that about
¼” extended into the opening thereby creating a “ledge.” I place the removed
portion of the panel carefully on this ledge making sure the orientation was
the same as when removed and that the surface was flush with the tank bottom.
Then, using the clear silicone aquarium sealant and adhesive, I filled the gap
just slightly proud of the surface and tooled it flush using my fingertip,
allowing it to cure for 24 hrs.
After curing, I placed the record cleaner right-side-up on
small blocks, filled it with water, and checked for any leakage. I then ran a
few test cleaning cycles with an old LP to make sure all was well. Then I
drained the tank and made sure the tank bottom was completely dry.
Lastly, I reinstalled the bottom plate using the same
silicone as above and allowed it to cure for 24 hrs.
Bottom line:
Many thanks again to Decibell who developed this repair
technique that has allowed many of us to continue using their RCMs without the
huge expense of dealing with the factory.
I just received my new Pro X model the other day. I have given my old unit to a friend that wants to try and fix the old one. Please send me the instructions for repairing the water pump. I have talked to one of my subcontractors that supplies all of my custom Plexiglass products and he can separate and put it back together for my buddy. SO if you would please send me the instructions and parts list.
Well, most of us actually have this same problem - we have a daytime job. Don't look for excuses! Order a pump, get some Tangit PVC glue and gutter sealant and cut this thing open. It does not take much and it is a very rewarding project! I just received a thank you email from another user who was able to replace his failed pump.
I just figured that I would ask. I work 6 - 7 days a week and don't have time to dedicate to trying to fix it. Mine stopped pumping water last week and I was hoping it was just clogged up. I have tried several things that I have seen online. I talked to the rep in PA and he wants me to send it up to him to analyze the problem. After reading this blogged , I am sure the pump has gone up. I have cleaned close to 600 albums with it and cleaned 8 the day before it stopped working. If you ever want to try it without any responsibilities or warranties, let me know. I have had it for 5 years and I don't think that I will spend another $4500 for a new one.
Sorry 730waters - I'm not comfortable working on other machines. But I'll be glad to email you pictures and answer questions. It's not very complicated to do the repair. May be you can find a local handy man who can help you?
About three years ago I bought the AudioDesk and it broke after a year or so. Peter at The Cable Company offered me generous trade-in allowance towards a new Pro model and so I did that. Now, two years later my Pro has just quit pumping water from the reservoir to the washing area. I'll never buy another one of these again.
Hello, I know you’ve had a lot of request for pictures, but could you send me your photos of your repair job on the Audio Desk Record Cleaner. ive the same problem and no warrenty can you send it to gc1923@live.com
I am sorry for my bad explanation. The record rotates as usual. The rolling cleaning barrels rotate on their own axis correctly. The problem is the following. Usually, when the water start rising, firstly the barrels go off the record and then they are released towards the record and start to roll. Well, sometimes, after snapping, they do not apprach back the record and not roll. They are blocked. Sometimes, it is enough a little finger pressure and they approach the record and start rolling as usual. sometimes, neither the finger pressure can move them and they remain blocked, spaced 2 centimeters from record.
I am an happy owner od Audio Desk Vinyl Cleaner (not PRO) and in my opinion this is a very efficient sistema of LP washing. But I begin to have trouble with it, me too. Sometimes the rolling cleaner barrel do not touch the record but I do a light finger pression on them. Lastly they do not move at all, and I have to start again and again tilt they move. Have anyone an idea of the reason? What can I check or do to fix this problem?
My AD had been sitting unused for a year following the pump stopping (4th AD failure and first failure of replacement machine). After recently looking at a friends AD that was having problems [it stopped rotating the records in the drying cycle] I changed his drive bands and flushed it through several times with with hot water and a soft cleaner [it was mighty dirty inside] to try and get it working, and it did. So I flushed mine through and low and behold the pump started working again. So far it has worked a 100 cycles since. The learning is that pumps stick and might be persuaded to unstick, drive bands wear and can make you think you have a different problem, and you need keep your AD clean if you want clean records.
decibell, My audiodesk systeme Glass machine has just failed too. Could you send me pictures, as well please. I want to have a go at this and re-engineer the thing properly so it doesn't fail so quickly but also so that I can repair it easily when it goes again...... Thanks and best regards, Matt
Wouldn't it be nice if we can get Reiner Glaess to revise his design and incorporate a removable bottom plate and tank cover to be able to access all internal components without having to physically cut anything open?
Reiner, you just lost another potential customer! If you read this, please consider a design change! Your machine is great, as long as it works. But people shy away from it due to the fact that it is not repairable (without using a cutting tool). Imagine the engine hood of your car cannot be opened without cutting into it ...
Thanks for sharing your opinion hiendmmoe! That's why I posted these repair procedures here - to give those handy people that already have one of these machines another option.
I’ve had several people I know try to get these units serviced. They’re not serviceable and the only way to recover some of your losses is to reinvest more money into a new one at cost. I wouldn’t touch this product; even the latest version which is suppose to be more reliable. At $4500. You would think it would last a good 20 years without issues. Yes I heard the sonic improvements, but for my money reliability and serviceability are of equal importance.
It’s not a big deal now that all the hard work is done to just pull the bottom off and replace the pump if needed ,,I bought 2 spare pumps for down the road,,( yes im hoarding pumps,,Not TP ) LOL
Interesting idea! If the pump turns out to fail more frequently this could be a way to make it more accessible. However, once the bottom plate and tank bottom are attached with silicone and/or gutter sealant, removing them will be much easier than with an original machine. So far my cleaner performs fine after the repair I did a few months ago.
Found a pump on Amazon ,,Same as I took out ,,Did the repair and all is good,,Thanks for the info to do the job,, Copy and paste on Amazon ,, AUBIG DC40A-1245 Low Noise Brushless Fountain Aquarium 12V DC Mini Water Pump Inlet & Outlet 0.55 Inches Power Cord 35 Inches Black 3.2X2.4X1.8 Inches
Thanks for your post. I have the same model,not the new one Pro model. I wish to know which is the procedure to change the default water pump. I send you a message and my email asking you for photos and instructions to open the sealed with silicon bottom side. Also asking which is the replacement reference unit. Greetings,
Thanks for this thread - I have found it most helpful - I will now take a soft mallet to try and remove the bottom plate of my Audio Desk Systeme Record Cleaner.
The water stopped flowing through my machine so I think it is safe to assume it is the pump.
Alas as this is the 4th failure in not quite 7 years. The first was under warranty while the next two repairs cost me over 1000euros - of which the second bill was 750euros only months after a previous repair with a similar fault. At least this time I got 3 years use and c 2200 records cleaned.
But I can’t see myself shelling out again for such unreliable kit unless I want to go back to work. Kind of ****** off.
decibell thanks for this really useful post on repairing the audio desk. My first died on me and was a pump failure. Replaced with the Pro at discounted price. After three years, the pump has died again - a totally unreliable product in my view for the money paid. German engineering at its worst! I'm not going to get another one even at a heavily discounted price so its DIY time. Would really appreciate some pictures/videos and other instructions that will be useful on this treacherous repair journey. PS not particularly light handed on repair jobs of this sort. Many thanks in advance.
@acresverde Thank you for the flowers! Always glad to help! Glaess possibly designed his cleaner the way he did to protect his idea. Unfortunately the price for this unmaintainability is paid by the owner - once it needs maintenance/repair. It is unfortunate that he does not handle repair cases to the full satisfaction of his customers. It is an extremely useful machine - when it works. But he makes it difficult to recommend his product ....
Your post is a model for why fora like these should exist. Anyone who owns one of these machines should be grateful that someone (you) was ambitious and tenacious enough to tackle such a problem and then "bother" to post about. No snarkiness, pomposity or mean spirited attack...just useful, well intended information.
So a bit more on The Gläss business principles... As I said earlier my (non-Pro) machine was sent for repairs and deemed un-repairable by Gläss. I was offered to buy a new Pro model for half the price of a new one. Currently in Sweden the (list) price for a new model is 34,725 SEK (approx 3,625 US$), so I get a new Pro one for approx 1,811 US$. But the kicker is, according to the dealer, it’s either buy the new machine at the "discounted" price and they’ll (Gläss or the rep, in Denmark, not sure) will keep the old "un-repairable" machine. If I want the old machine back, the deal is off. So what am I supposed to do? Still cheaper than a new Degritter, but extortion-like business practice.
Glaess recommends Tangit glue from Henkel for the PVC-U housing. PVC cement from Homedepot will probably work as well. Gutter sealant or strong silicone glue to secure the motor to the side wall. After you have cut the bottom open, you need to glue some small support angles to the inside of the housing to support the tank bottom in the right position since it is not resting on a rim anymore. Glue the tank bottom in place and glue the bottom plate to the outside walls so it creates a second seal. If anybody needs pictures feel free to email me direct.
You might find a similar replacement pump at an aquarium supply store. They may even have tools and solvents/ adhesives to work with the plastics more successfully.
About to perform the surgery as soon as I get mine back (see sad story below). Can I get some pics that shows the "innards" so I don’t go wrong? Have had the first generation of the AudioDesk cleaner for several years and it’s been a pretty bad experience. When it worked, it was great but ...
After about a year the capstans rotating the record died. Sent of for repairs in Germany (I’m in Sweden), took about 2 months and cost about 5000 SEK (approx $500). About 4 months ago the waterpump died, sent it off for repairs again, only to be informed last week (it took freakin 4 months!) that it is "too old to be repaired", but they offered to sell me a new (now the "Pro" model) for half the retail price (approx $1800). Don’t even know if I’ll get my old machine back. Though it seems to be completely glued together, I thought I’d give it a try to replace the pump myself. Nothing to loose ... Dealer said that through the years he had about 30% of the first generation AudioDesk cleaners returned for repairs.
Supposedly the current AudioDesk "Pro" model is more reliable, but I think I’m done with the Gläss Audiodesk as a company.
Lookng at Degritter now as a promising alternative.
Update. I finally opened up my unit and the water pump is dead not seized. It now appears AD uses several models on water pumps. Mine is black and appears to be China made OEM pumps which are easily replaceable. The bottom like is the water pump is easy to replace once you have gotten into the innards of the unit.
The issue with emptying the AD tank if not in use is the float can get stuck to the bottom and won’t budge. I have had that issue and was only remedied by leaving water in the tank for a period of time.
What makes the pump stop working if it is immersed in water for a prolong period of time? Would be good to understand.
Make sure you use the AD unit relatively often, like once a week. Or empty the tank if not in use. If it sits a few weeks with water in it the pump gets unhappy and will eventually break. This is a problem with the first models more than the second Pro version which has an upgraded pump. I made the upgrade myself and I’m very happy with new AD unit but it’s still good practice to keep the water circulating or empty it.
Everyone I know who was an early adopter of the vinyl desk had problems. It’s shameful the company is not taking care of those people even though it’s out of warranty. It’s obvious there were design flaws and the pro model was brought in to address this.
From my experience, AD units unfortunately are more prone to issues regardless of model but I also have the KLAudio unit which while a lot less reported issues, do have occasion problems as well. The difference for me at least is KLAudio is much more responsive and field service is actually possible.
@decibell - this is good information and worthwhile for someone who has an out of warranty unit that cannot be traded in for an upgrade. @jwpstayman is fortunate- Robert Stein at Ultra Systems, the distributor here in the States, has generally tried to accommodate customers with problems. I had one of the earlier AD units, before the new "Pro" model, which is supposed to be better, but I think all of these units (not just the AD) will eventually fail. I did talk to the distributor of Elma in the States about field replaceable parts and was told that was a non-starter-- I don't know if the ultrasonic transducers can be found on the open market-- i have to believe that unless there is some special tuning that is employed, that would be the other remaining 'part' that fails here. (The AD is obviously more complicated, with not only a drive system to spin the LP and a blower to dry the record, but also those rollers used as part of the wash cycle). As to Loricraft v ultrasonic, I have a Monks Omni- same principle --and still find that ultrasonic brings something extra to the cleaning process, so I use both. Thanks for the post, decibell.
@decibell Would appreciate some photos, in particular the part about accessing the water pump as I have the same issue and was quoted about USD900 to repair via dealer.
noromance - ok, my "repair investment". I still have my machine and am intending to use it for many years to come. Boxing the unit up, bringing it to FedEx, paying for shipping and for an out of warranty repair is the comparison I tried to make.
You must have a verified phone number and physical address in order to post in the Audiogon Forums. Please return to Audiogon.com and complete this step. If you have any questions please contact Support.
