The only problem with audio and music: it a very passive hobby. Of course you could ride a stationary bike or even have sex while listening to music . But then audio/music becomes sort of secondary. So the question, do any of you have an active, non-passive hobby that is the equal to audio/music??? Just curious, or all of you just couch potatoes???
Bufus: Actually it is good that you find bewonderment in the dark skies. It is more gratifying than audio many times. What makes amateur astronomy so cool is you just need your eyes, you look up and see the whole milky way. It definitely makes you feel a sense of wonder. Oh you can go hog wild and spend a fortune on telescopes, but you need not. Plus it can very creative in an artsy kind of way with astrophotography ( probably the hardest photography to do) and it can be very precise with a definite scientific bent. I mean real science that is useful to the professional community. I personally straddle between audio and amateur astronomy. I take long draughts of both.
CDE I've been pretty lucky I guess. The shop where I buy has found buyers for me a couple of time because they want me to buy the new one. One I sold through the local paper, and one I gave to a guy who needed it but could not afford it. I sold the last one to my sister-in-laws brother. So I don't have any good advice for you. Sorry. Jla's post looked promising though.
Hey Schubertmaniac, there's at least one former RC modeler here. Twenty-five years ago I was heavily into multi-channel scale RC. Had a 12-channel Super Connie with 7' wingspan complete to wheel brakes, flaps, cabin/cockpit lighting, and retractable AirStair.
Folks, if you think tweaking is a consuming passion for audiophiles, you should try tweaking four .60 SuperTigre engines and 12 channels of (in those days) analog radio control.
Long ago and far away. Now I bike around the neighborhood on a perfectly ordinary Cannondale, train my dog, and collect books.
I rode chromoly for a couple of years before switching to aluminum. At 6'-3" and 235 I didn't trust the flexier frames. I only ride mountain bikes but I end up on the road a lot. I like to commute with them too. I started with a GT Zaskar which I rode a few seasons and then went to my first Klein. The next year I bought another and have had it for almost three years now. A personal record! Due to my size I have found the aluminum to work much better and I don't experience the pounding some riders comment about. Again probably a size issue. Now I'm down to one bike but yesterday I bought an American made (no not a harley, it's really American made) Victory cruiser. I can't hang this from the ceiling in the garage though. I guess this means whoever is coming to Vegas for CES should bring their bikes.
I gotta get more of a life! Too busy at work and the constant moving/building (new homes) that seems to go with it. Love golf. Love to cook. Love single malts. The kids are pretty much gone, but I love to watch movies with my son when he's around. Altogether too sedentary. I used to fence (foil) and take Tae Kwon Do -- but that was a while back. What to do? What to do? I'll sit back and think on it for awhile. Does anybody have any ice?
Good to see other cyclists here. I do some sport racing on a SantaCruz Superlight. I also road ride two nights a week on a Cannondale R2000 with a small group, usually a quick thirty or so. I'm also an avid windsurfer and wave sailer. Any other boardheads in here? Audio is my winter sport.
Shubertmaniac, i've got an older Harley that i'm VERY slowly modifying / rebuilding. Also have an old Corvette Stingray that i'll probably end up rebuilding the motor on next year. Used to have 6 different "muscle cars" at one time. They ranged from turbo charged small blocks to 482" big blocks with Weber's on them. Not only can that stuff get expensive ( in terms of parts and storage ), it can literally kill you if you're not careful. Having that much power and not using it was too much of a temptation for me. You would not believe the amount of tickets that i had within about a 6 year time frame. It would make your head spin. My lawyer LOVED me to say the least and i was on a "bulk rate" program with him. Now i drive a 4 cylinder / 5 speed Tempo back and forth to work and still average about 2 tickets a year : ) Sean >
Lots of cyclists. Me too. I give another vote for CroMo steel. Good old Reynolds 531 ... comfy, light, stiff enough, repairable, lasts for years. I think too many cyclists these days are carried away with gear. I always remember doing the time trials there would always be one older chap (50s) turn up on something that looked like a delivery bike, and then thoroughly trounce all of us young 'uns with our sleek racing machines.
As to Jla .. I think you're overlooking durability in aluminum and particularly carbon frames. Of course the pros don't ride steel. But the difference is that they don't have to buy their own bikes, and then ride them for 10 years, over crummy road surfaces, in traffic.
It's in the legs ... not the frame material at the amateur level.
I may be an amateur astronomer??? I never miss any eclipses, meteorite showers, etc. Yet, I do not own a telescope. I just enjoy it from eye level. Unfortunately, if I get any money, I'm quick to spend it on audio so there is none left for a telescope.
Surprised: NO amateur astronomers NO Lionel train collectors NO coin or stamp collectors No reenactors civil war or otherwise No R/C modelers No model railroaders No sailors or sailboat racers No motorcylcists HD or otherwise No antique car collectors or restorers, though a few racers No recreational boaters, though a few ski No gardeners No recreational flyers, wing or rotor NO furniture restorers or builders
Most of the responses were not hobbies but sports, which is ok, but I was more interested in hobbies, which in my mind is doing something creative. Getting in shape and having a a good time with it is a positive pursuit but not a hobby.
Hi J: Nice to see more racers around here. Hey I wasn't talkin about the tiny group of folks who race. Like I said, if your intersted in a wheel length after a few hour and have done the work on a bike to actually take advantage of the design go for it. So of course that's what's the pro's drive. Very few riderrs have much of sprint left in them after a couple hours of hard pace. Just racers really or folks who used to race. But those racing frames for the average guy it's like going out and getting a formula one chassis to drive around town in when you only have a 50 horse power engine. Anyway, I wasn't talking about frames for someone with your time in the saddle. bang for the buck I still think steel is great and for a 47 yr old such as myself out of the competition it is as good a choice as any - but that means there are other good choices too.
Road bike -- hand built Peter Mooney circa 1993 -- steel is real
Touring bike -- last of the handbuilt Treks, circa 1986 -- a dozen countries, countless miles, no original parts left except frame
Mountain bike -- Kona titanium frame, up to date parts as of about 1999 -- ti is great for a frame you don't want to break -- I broke my previous lugged aluminum frame
Tandem -- last of the tig-welded Santana Sovereigns -- again, steel
Folding bike -- Comotion Espresso with an S&S coupler -- fixed up as an interesting cross-bike -- had a custom builder put braze ons for cantilevers, Scott AT3 bars, friction barends, and the first generation Marzocchi 700c shock -- used it a bunch when I travelled for work, now it's 3000 miles away in my Mom's garage for the times I visit her
fixed gear -- piece of junk $100 Univega road bike with a lock wheel
beater bike -- funky painted old Rockhopper -- this is the bike that sees the most use now
I have a one year old, and I just bought a tot-trailer. Hopefully this purchase will signal the rekindling of my life on the bike.
7 bikes, 6 are steel. I guess you can see where my sentiments are.
On other fronts -- I play a lot of racquet sports -- badminton is the latest. I swim. I hike a bit. I like to sweat.
Audio passive? Do any of you dance? Not like ballroom, but more like Tom Cruise in Risky Business? I can't sit still for about half of what I play.
I am no expert in martial arts, but I think Bruce developed Jeet Kun Do by combining the close hand to hand combat techniques of Chinese martial arts with the powerful kicks of Korean Tai Kwan Do.
Regarding my knee... it's a mystery... but the truth is out there... actually I think he is in Cupertino now.
I have been lucky enough to race on several teams that have been sponsored by various bike companies. Case in point, I am now on my 12th frame. I started on steel when I was a junior (loved my Eddy Merck) and continued to ride steel on and off until about 6 years ago. First off, steel is heavy. Sure Columbus Nimo is light stuff if you are sub 150 lbs., but due to the lack of structural integrity and expense, it is no longer available. I have always appreciated the fine craft of hand-built brazed steel frames, but ride some of the new compact aluminum or carbon bikes available and I guarentee that you will find it hard to switch back to steel. Over the last 4 years I have ridden various Cannondales and Trek OCLV frames. The last bike I rode was one of the last Schwinn Fastbacks made in the USA and it was amazing....light and stiff + great ride (17lbs buit w/ Dura Ace). Recently, I have had the opportunity to ride a Giant compact TCR aluminum team frame (just like pro cycling team Once does in Europe) The Giant has the ride qualities of carbon w/ the stiffness of aluminum. The overall road feel is very light, smooth and quick. The bike tracks extremelly well for its agressive design although to some, it may not seem as solid of a ride as steel. Personally, I think this has to due with the fact that steel is heavier. The stock Dura Ace bike weighs 16 lbs and is very stiff due to the compact rear triangle. Rode 4.5 hours yesterday and was far from being beat up. Steel may be the real thing to some, but show up to any regional race in the US or check out what the pro peloton is riding in Europe and I doubt you will see many steel frames at all. It took some time for me to finally admit it, but I would rather ride a top of the line mass produced Giant than a steel made DeRosa. But keep in mind for $4,000 (frame/fork only) you can ride a DeRosa King, which BTW is a carbon fibre compact design. Cycling is a lot like audio....has all the ingredients for the old analog vs. digital debate.
Bufus, did you happen to hear the results from the latest Pride event in Japan August 28th? It had a mixture of Pride and K1 kickboxing rules, some brutal knockouts. The pay-per-view for this event is scheduled to premier this weekend Sept. 1st, I'll be in Cabo so I'll have to Tivo it. Also, did you see the recent broadcast of the Vitor Belfort vs. Chuck Liddell fight at UFC 37.5? Awesome fight.
Nrchy, I'd be interested to hear how your TKD studio assimilated some of the Tao of Jeet Kune Do into it's practice. The gym I studied at was the IMB Academy in Torrance, CA. which is also very close to many of the Gracie and Machado BJJ schools. Richard Bustillo the head of IMB was an original Bruce Lee student at his Los Angeles Chinatown school in the '60's. Although I got to a level where I was able to train with the senior students [just barely] I rarely had the chance to practice Jun Fan [Bruce Lee's given name], which are the techniques based on his early teachings. We did a lot of Muay Thai, Jiu Jitsu and Kali. Training there it was difficult to remember what NOT being injured felt like.
OK Viggen, you've gotta tell the forum members the story about your knee injury, and especially the fix.
Good point on the skiing - that's my winter avocation. Working for the 4th largest ski area operator in the US gets me plenty of free slopetime when I can take it. Eastern-based but we have resorts out west so that's where I go when I can. Heli-skiing in canada - that sounds sweet (insert jealousy here). Best for me so far is a couple trips to Grand Targhee, snowcat skiing - that ruled. Jackson Hole is right around the corner so logged some vert there too while I was out west.
SEX,CYCLING,had a conalgo,campangolo components till I got hurt.Did about 200 miles a week,it can be insance riding along with crazy drivers.Photography,coin collecting,so off most of that though.still have my bike though but I sold the Conalgo.I collect watches and my wife and I go dancing at ROSELANd yes we still dance the HUSTLE and mambo.Also my wife and I roller skate,not inline,the old school skates,quads.And now that I'm a homeowner,have to do the gardening and other things to keep the place nice for my audio.Audio is not passive if youre into listening to LPs.Cheers.
As I said in my last post, my other hobby is scuba diving. When I am not working, or sitting in front of the stereo, I can usually be found underwater. Diving has allowed me to travel the world, and gives me a lot of things to dream about, when I listen to music. I have a lot of videos of our trips, so I get visual stimulation at the same time.
Chrome moly gives the best ride. And you can just feel those hand-filed, skeletonized, long-point lugs caressing that double-butted Columbus tubing. Lovingly assembled by skilled Italian artisans in a small 6-man factory with stains of blood, sweat, and Barolo on the concrete floor. Trophies from Campione del Mundo line the workbenches. You can feel every bit of the heritage through the hard leather Sella saddle and the supple Cinelli bars. The wind rushes by your ears as you glide through the shifts of your magnesium Campagnolo drivetrain. Your legs drive harder as you engage the 53-tooth chainring and push for 35mph. Visions of Eddy Mercks flash through your mind as you stand up in the saddle and sprint for the finish, bottom bracket flexing in rhythm to the drive....... But, I digress. Got a little carried away. Biking is cool.
"Clueless, does titanium really ride that much better than my Klein aluminum?"
It's been a while since I've been in the market and, I have to admit, I have a tendency to like old stuff. I have never given up steel for bike frames and tubes (SETS) for audio. I would never argue that they are the “best.” Just that they do a wonderful job and are not “proprietary” and so are inexpensive. Great bang for the buck.
I have never ridden a Klein frame for a long period of time (an entire season). I have ridden them for days at a time. This was at least 5 years ago however. It depends on what you mean by “better.” The Klein I rode was a great criterium bike and that is the general comment I heard about them at that time. It was stiff and light and handled really well in a sprint. I would not have wanted it as my training bike because the downside is that the very same stiffness that transfers the energy you put into the crank into the wheel so efficiently also, for the most part, transfers all the road vibrations right up your rear end and up your back. After x days in the saddle you get fatigued if you are not in really good shape for riding. The basic idea of tradeoffs and compromise in frame design is very similar to what you find in audio design. You can’t have it all. If you watch most people get off of a bike after 3 hours in the saddle you realize from the way they walk that they are feeling the road. They need comfort and a frame that absorbs the road shock, not a sprinting machine. Unless you are in exceptionally good shape and are interested in winning a sprint by a wheel length after a few hours of riding there is really no need for the additional stiffness. In general aluminum seems to be unforgiving. I hear that they are getting better though and really I can’t speak to your bike.
I like steel. If you read the reviews of the best $4,000 titanium frames (that’s right 4k for a frame alone) what do they say? Usually that they “ride like steel.” What are you gaining with titanium? About 1 ½ pounds or so on the frame, if that? Is a pound going to make that much difference in your ride? What’s in your saddle pack? How much water are you carrying? Did you eat chips last night that you are carrying around with you now? If you want to drop weight take it off your wheels. Your wheels are moving weight. Take it off your legs. They are moving too. A pound or two is incredibly insignificant if it is on the frame and if the bike is ridden the way most people ride. Most folk do not accelerate (sprint) much after a couple hours out and yet this is really the only time the light stiff stuff excels. The rest of the time – riding in a pace line at 22 mph for a few hours, it does no good, and in fact just beats you up.
In the old days I had one frame I used to race and another one to train on for this reason. It is ridicules the amount of totally out of shape recreational riders buying frames designed for Lance Armstrong and Greg Lamond. I actually had a part interest in a cycling shop at one time and left the business because it became impossible to sell folks what the industry was asking us to sell.
In any event, titanium, in general, will ride softer than aluminum, and if shaped correctly will be stiff (it is very soft and weak if used in simple round/oval tubes). But the shaping is a ridiculously expensive approach for the average rider.
IMHO the truth is that steel cannot be beat for most riders but it is not proprietary and they cannot possibly sell steel frames at the price of the latest gizmo material marketed as the “Tour de France” frame set. This aspect of the marketing in cycling reminds me so much of audio hype too that it is scary.
I admit I am rather opioninated on the subject but at least the opinion comes from riding and not reading "Bicycling Magazine." I logged in 100,000 miles on the bike some years back and stopped counting. J1a will likely object and I'm sure his point will be a valid one.
Why are there so many bikers on this forum? We should start a bikergon, althought I doubt it wouldn't be nearly as interesting as audiogon.
Speaking of active sports, I was fanatical about basketball and baseball. But a slight knee injury has banished me from playing competitively, so biking is my only real work out now.
Other than golf, my other hobby is also music. I sing in a couple professional choir groups (large and small chamber).
This is actually the most rewarding. It has brought me in contact with people like Dave Brubeck, The Kings Singers, and Peter Schickele (PDQ Bach and Schickele Mix on NPR).
We are performing for the third time with Dave Brubeck in Baltimore this coming March. We made a recording with Dave last year (not out yet).
I should add that although I view audio as being a passive hobby....I don't consider myself a passive listener. Sure, I have music going in the house almost all the time, but there are those moments when I do listen critically.
Clueless...good to see that you are riding....7000 miles a year...way to go.
I'm with J1a Cycling Used to race in the good old days and I'm still good for about 7000 miles a year all in the warmer part of the year. In the winter XC skiing is nice too. I use to golf some.
It's good to have other hobbies because you quickly realize that we audio folk are not any different than other hobbiests. A whole slew of jargon developes. The arcane discussions about titanium, hollow cranks, dimple flight patterns can compare with the best of what we do!
P.S. I generally don't listen to my home system "passively." In other words, if there are any other distractions in the house or I'm cleaning up, cooking, etc., I don't bother listening. I only fire up the home system when I can dedicate my full attention to it. I listen to most of my music in the car because I have a 30 minute drive to work.
Snow skiing and bicycle racing. Actually I don't race anymore, but I did for a long time. I still ride regularly and can still hold my own with the B riders. Snow skiing, never competed--was never really that good, but enjoy it emensly. I have been Heli skiing in Canada--that was pretty incredible.
I have audio systems in just about every room in the house including my woodshop. Most of the time I listen passively. Don't get me wrong; I do the turn out the lights and listen seriously bit occasionally. But, for the most part I listen while cleaning the house, cooking, surfing the net, working on the car, etc. The great part about hifi though, is that occasional moment when your doing something else and all of a sudden you pop your head up and say "hey, I never heard that before", or "this version of the song sure does flow better". You Agon people know what I'm taking about: that moment of inspiration or musical nirvana. That's what audio is all about.
P.S. - I spent more on audio gear than I did on my new home!
I've always enjoyed telemark skiing until I too, sretched out the ACL in my right knee. Whitewater canoeing, pool, hiking, scuba diving, and photography all fill the gap when I'm not listening to music.
I definitely view audio as a passive hobby. I ride and race my road bike roughly 300 + miles a week in the spring and summer, but look forward to fall and winter when I have more time to listen to music and play around with the system. Seems to work for me since I love both hobbies so much.
I tend to view audio as an active hobby. I like to tweek stuff and figure out stuff and take things apart, ect. It is actually a real exercise for the brain. The results are gratifying. I think I enjoy taking a cheaper component and trying to make it sound good. I don't know if I actually accomplish much with the time spent (as oppossed to just buying better stuff, It might work out to .25$ an hour). Don't get me wrong, I enjoy spending money just as much as the next guy, but if I couldn't take it apart, I wouldn't feel I was getting my money's worth. I guess what I'm saying is the enjoyment is in the trying, not trying so I can get the maximum enjoyment. I do listen passively quite often though, like when I am actively trying to pick up after myself. That's when the active/passive debate is most blured.
I love hiking to high mountain lakes here in Colorado and flyfishing for Cutthroat and Brook trout. There's just something about being at 13,000 feet and having a lake all to yourself. Unfortunately it is a seasonal hobby. I definitely spend much more time listening to music in the winter but after dealing with people all day at work, I am ready to go into my "decompression chamber". I am also a big C.U. football fan. Go Buffs!! Sdcampbell, thanks for taking Neuheisel off of our hands (just kiddin'). Hope your Huskies do well.
I was a sportbike rider. I had a daughter and sold the bike. I used the money to buy a widescreen high definition television. I was also into Karate/Weightlifting/Jiu-jitsu and then I broke cartlidge and tore my ACL (ligament) in my knee. That pretty much ended that hobby. I still watch the UFC and Pride fighting competitions. My only active hobbies at this point are chasing my daugher around and mowing the yard with a push mower!!!!!!
Car racing: SCCA, COMSCC, BMWCCA - it's about as expensive as audio and you have to work on the gear (the cars) way more than rolling tubes, etc. A hell of a blast, no doubt.
I enjoy hunting, fishing, walking, and scuba diving, and am an avid Univ of Washington Husky football fan. Infact, I'm flying from Seattle to Ann Arbor tomorrow to see the opening game of the season against Michigan -- GO DAWGS!!
Actually I got out of the hobby for several years because it was too sedentary. I began mountain biking about eight years ago and studying a form of Tae Kwon Do styled after the philosophy (intercepting fist) Bruce Lee taught in his studio. I love to get out there, sweat, and get sore. Then I come home and plop down in front of the stereo. Women are only a hobby when you use them, not when you care about them. I don't know how physical it is, but I'm getting a big American made motorcycle. It will hopefully take up some time and give some exercise.
Well my other hobby is women, which also happens to be my job, the irony! I enjoy cars and shooting(guns) so the only real activity I see is in the sack- boy I got it rough well only if I am lucky. Cheers!
You must have a verified phone number and physical address in order to post in the Audiogon Forums. Please return to Audiogon.com and complete this step. If you have any questions please contact Support.
