How does the Prima sound compared to the CEC TL51XR? |
Now thanks alot everyone. I was trying to find out some solid info on the AA Prima MK ii player. Does it sound smooth? Does it deliver bass weight and impact? Is it foward or laid back sounding? Is it bright or tilted towards high freq.?
These are all questions I have.
Looking for a good anwser in this thread is like listening to a Monty Python comedy skit. " Yes it is" " No it's not"
" Is too" " Is not". Remember the dead parrot routine? |
Yes indeed the Prima I had was definitely the older model. I do have to disagree me and my pal Trelja both own Granites. I bought mine after hearing his for a long time. We also did an A/B with an Electrocompianet EMC 1 up, which I had loved from multiple auditions. The granite was actually more extended and had more weight. The sound staging isn't the worlds best but its true its timing = PRAT is superb. It was the winner, much to my surprise. |
Mechans: Which version of the Prima are we talking about here? From your description (6922 tubes) it seems like your (dead) player was the older MK I version. The newer version uses tiny super tubes, which are soldered in. As far as I know transports for the MK I are difficult to come by; the newer MK II has as far as I know a different transport which may or may not be replaceable at this time.
Also, there is supposedly a big difference in sound between MK I and MK I according to the Soundstage reviews.
Rene |
Different strokes for different folks !
I find the Granite to have more extension, detail, PRaT and musicality in my system! And I use an Audio Aero Prima Integrated amp . I would have thought that system synergy would have been a factor. It clearly was not! |
The Granite?? I tried the 657 head to head with my Prima 2 and the Granite was the clear loser. My audio buddies and I were surprised at how poor it was in soundstaging and dynamics. It sounded shut-in and weak and we all agreed. I can see why Mechans wants his Prima back! |
Mechans ;
I too have moved from the AA Prima to a Granite . I have found that the Granite is just more of everything that the Prima was . I am curious as to what about the Prima that you prefer . What speaker and amp are you using ? |
All I can tell you is that the transport on my used Prima is totally dead according to my local audio guy. He said it would be a minor fortune to get it fixed because AA mods the transports somewhat I assume to fit the rest of it. This one has to be the older one a Philips I assume and the tube used for the output is a 6922 type. I rolled it to my liking. I can tell you this Warren I miss my Prima it made my whole system relaxed and I didn't find it forward at all. Right now I bought an older Granite which has excellent detail retrieval is musical but I miss the Prima it was sublime. I have enough clarity in the rest of my components that I don't need a super crisp CDP.
Does anyone know how I can replace the transport without going to AA? Thanks in advance.
P.S. Warren I listened very carefully once again to "broken in" Druids. Your right they are not exactly clock radios but....I start a thread to discuss that. |
Anyone here owned both the philips and the new sony transport version want to make a sound comparison? |
Sent APL a mail once,regarding pricing on the APL modded Denon,unfortuanately,got no response...Then asked a friend who owns an APL Denon to ask the person at APL to kindly answer my mail.Turns out he thought I was an African scammer ... !! Did not want to answer my mail for that reason...
No "CE" marking on the APL,so import not possible...
Regards
"Nigerian scammer" |
Just to show you that I'm teachable: I love my Prima, but indeed, digital has come a long way in the past three years, and I certainly realize that the Prima, while amazing in the $3k price range is not the end all. It's always been the source, IMHO, that is the most important component of one's sytem, with the speakers, of course, being right behind. I've been doing (there goes the upgrade itch. It's your fault Stan) oodles of homework and have been speaking with owners of the APL Denon 3910. That is going to be my next purchase this spring. You'll see a Prima for sale on the 'gon, then, if one of my friends doesn't buy it. What has been wonderful about my research is finding audiophools who have owned not only the Prima, but the Capitole MKII, as well. Have had all three to compare in their systems and went with the APL 3910. I realize another league altogether given the price. It will be awhile before I exude my impressions, but I promise not to be too nauseating...lol.. don't hurt me Stan.. peace guys, warren :-) |
So what was it that made you decide to go ahead and buy the Prima, Blue? Why did you decide to buy new as opposed to used on a'gon?
Happy Listening! |
Have the new AA Prima cd player up and running.Connected balanced via Ridge Street Audio Poiema !! XLRs to my Gryphon Callisto 2100,driving my beloved Merlin VSM-MMs.
I think the Prima is FANTASTIC !! Quite a statement, considering it replaced the Mark Levinson 37 and 36s combination .... |
Thanks for all replies. Just got news that the Prima MKIII does not have volume control. |
While the Prima MK I CDP did have an analog volume control, the Prima CDP MK II did NOT have a digital or analog volume control. I am not sure about the newer MK III (?) version of the CDP with the new faceplate.
The Prima MKII DAC does have volume control. |
I own the Prima MK II SE DAC and it is a wonderful piece that does have volume control. Probably more like the Capitole II than the Prima CD player. |
I can't imagine the Prima not having volumn control. |
Hi All,
Does the new prima has volume control?
It wasn't mentioned in their website.
Thank you. |
Vertigo, you once again confirm a strong consensus on the Prima. |
Vertigo: As an owner of a Sony C333ES and Prima Mk2, I have to say I totally agree with all your comments on the comparison of your XA777ES vs. your Prima. In my world, I clearly prefer the Prima's style over the Sony's. |
I can answer my own question above as I recently acquired the AA prima. compared to the stock xa777es the prima's soundstage was only slightly smaller with a sound that was slightly less room filling but big enough that it was still very very enjoyable. the xa777es did have better tonal balance (ie more seamless across the frequencies)but I dont know whether that is only because relative to prima the sony was far more dull with less sparkle and excitement and in that, the whole musical presentation "appears" more seamless. the sony is really good and i like what it can do but my personal tastes edged out and preferred the prima. easily. the sony to me seemed more "brainy" while the prima more "heart" without being tubey. The prima seemed closer to being a "musical instrument" and the sony more closer to being a "machine"
the sony was very resolving but it didnt lift the information to the level of emotion and music as could the prima. This is a bigger fault imo than a slightly smaller soundstage and a little less tonal balance. both machines are "great" and i suppose I could live with either but having "tasted" the prima I like what it does and so it will stay in my system and be enjoyed. |
This is how I deal with knowing, or suspecting, that there are cdps out there for the same price that may be better. If I'm grooving with mine, it (the Prima in this case) is a keeper. I think I have a ridiculous pair of tympanics as far as being on the picky side. If it works for me, that is all that matters. Sometimes I get, yeah, a bit ridiculously zealous passing the audiophoolish word. Now, believe me, if I get the upgrade itch (anyone know about that?) you can bet that I'll think about replacing my Prima. For now it (my entire system) meets my tympanic needs. Proud of me?-- I didn't mention you know what.... peace, warren |
I had AA Prima MKII DAC and replaced it a week ago by Metronome C1A mkIII, the latter being MUCH more musical (in my system) |
Yes, don't worry and be happy as all of this is fun! The Prima may be perfect sounding to another who likes a different sound. This hobby is all about what you like to hear.
If you try the Prima and like it, then keep it and enjoy. If you find it lacks body, send it back and try another. That simple. Even better, buy it used for the right price and sell if you want to try another. If you buy right you wont lose money and can try another. I love this site just for this reason.
So many have raved about the Prima I had to try it. My experience was not like theirs. I sold it after two months hoping it would "change". Rooms can also impact the sound of a system and front end dramatically. A system that works great in one room will have "issues" in another.
Just try and enjoy like other posters have said. Great to try your two top choices side by side and decide. Sell the loser or send it back as part of a trial!
Bill |
Abal, "likes repel" ouch! |
>>Stan sounds like warren<<
Yes and no. Yes in the sense I am firm in my beliefs based on what I hear. No in the reality that I accept the fact that there is a plethora of players around the Prima's price point; many of which are simply better. I also concede that system dependency is a salient issue. However there are quite a few players that will outperform the Prima if A/B'd in any given system. Thank you. |
Stan sounds like Warren...too funny. Likes repel, sure enough. |
Man Warren, I have never seen you foaming at the mouth before. :) All this subjective talk doesn't amount to a hill of beans anyway. We love our Primas and that's that so don't worry about the others. |
Warren stop feeling sorry for yourself because the Prima is not the best player at its' price point. That's the issue here and you can't deal with it. I'm not "fooling" anyone as you suggest; my impressions are objective, as opposed to yours, who as a Prima owner are tainted by your own subjectivity and bias. As I said earlier, I have no dog in this fight but you do correct? So stop the silliness and give the other players a listen before taking such a hard-nosed unrelenting posture. Thank you and good luck. |
Stan, I asked of you for specific info about your experiences. You gave me nothing but circumlocution. Now, Bill gives an astute, cogent response, and you jump on it. Your experiences are the same? Give me a break. Who are you fooling here? |
Bluebull, don't get nervous about what Bill is saying. It is all, down that audio highway, very subjective. The best advice he gave you? Listen before you purchase. I feel very different about the Prima, though I haven't heard the variety of cdps he has, in the same rig. I'm a tough sell, but the Prima delivers in my system. The others may deliver as well. Perhaps more, but I'm satisfied for now....in this hobby, everything is temporary....for now, I'm good. You got quite a high class problem choosing from the above list of cdps that have been mentioned. |
Grannyring, that is a very astute and honest appraisal. Your findings are very similiar to mine. If you have a chance to hear the Canary you will find it better balanced than the Prima plus the bottom end is far more solid. It is one of the finest players at its' price point. My only complaint is lack of full functions on the remote. However the same can be said of the Prima and others in this price range. |
Bluebull, I have owned the Prima and have compared it at lenght to many other good players and DAC's. Check my feedback and see I am a long time and active audiofool.
My system (systems) were well matched and good for comparing various front ends. We all have opinions to be sure. We all have a sonic personality we like and thus we are all right.
I can honestly (IMHO) say the Prima is not the best in its price class as several other players in my home were better and by a good margin. I found it tilted up sounding and in the end fatiguing to my ears. Yes, a little forward and a little less body then I like. I like meat with my potatoes.
The Prima needs more meat and balance top to bottom. Perhaps the lack of meat made the sound seem tilted up or forward.
It is a very good player and my comments are about degrees of performance only. A used Opus 21 is better in every sonic way. I found the Cary 308T to have better dynamics, more meat/body and it is less money used or new.The Metronome CD players and DAC's are also better performers. I owned the C20 Signature DAC and that bested the Cary and Prima and reaaly gave the Opus 21 a run for the money. The older Metronome tubed Signature players can be had for a song used and they are wonderful sounding.
My current Muse Thalia CD/DVD player also bests the Prima from top to bottom. It is not tubed, but has XLR and no need for a preamp if you want. $1000 used on Agon.
I had the AA Capitole Signature version in my home two months ago and it is the finest player I have heard. That unit has meat, body, detail, huge stage - everything! The Prima is not 80-90% as good. They have very different sound and share only the company name.
Make sure you get a trial period if you go for the Prima.
Bill |
Bob, I look forward to your impressions, especially since you owned the Prima. I hope that baby delivers for you...warren |
Hey Warrenh,
FWIW, 6 Moons has one now for review, I guess we can
all wait to see. I went ahead and bought one yesterday,
(I know that's taking a chance but!?) and am selling
my present cdp. I hope it's not a mistake, but from
what little I can gather it sounds like the Canary
CD100 will be a real winner. I took a chance based on
what I heard from the CA 160 mono blocks I once had.
I also for the record "recently" owned the AA Prima, Rega Jupiter 2000,
Eastern Electric Mini Max, (auditioned and took back). Oh yea, I also had the 3.1x, but still liked the 2.1x better.
Anyway, you may not get your answer here, as there is just
not enough info floating around yet, but I assume a 6 moons
review will answer some of our questions. I do hope it's a
good one believe me. |
I suppose it is going to be impossible to get a direct answer from you. "simply better?" That is your audiophile critique? "fragile egos?" Stan, my man, give me a break. I'm open to anything, but "blown away?" No price, no nothing. I'd love to hear your experiences with the Prima. Since I know this cdp intimately, I, hopefully, will see what page you're on. No cogent (perhaps that's expecting to much) response, but simply: simply better? The insanity of all this, is that I expected different from you. My fault... :) |
Stanhifi,
Just wondering where I can get some info on the Canary
cdp? I have held on to my Audio Note 2.1x now for a couple
of years and had the Prima right before it. I love the
AN 2.1x and don't want to change until I find a
significant upgrade.
How much is Canary. I had the CA 160 monos for a short
period. (Fantastic!)
Canary makes great stuff. |
It sounds better very simply. You've been a strong proponent and very defensive of the Prima as evidenced by your plethora of posts on the subject. Unlike you, I have no dog in this fight. It might be difficult for fragile egos, but the Prima is not the best cd player at its' price. |
Since you have listened (for extended periods of time with various music selections and the same power cords, ICs,amp, cabling, etc.) to both, do you mind explaining specifically how the Canary "blows away" the Prima. I have owned mine for three years and am always amazed at the Prima's sound. |
Vertigo. I can't answer your question, but I have to say that my Sony XA777ES with superclock II mod is the only non tubed CD player in my price range that I'll listen to. I keep trying to replace it with a tubed output CD player, but everytime I listen to other players as good as they are in the price range I like the Sony better. I'm only talking about redbook. It is very smooth not digital sounding. And the low level detail is just amazing and hard to give up. It's also not analytical like some very detailed players.
I bought it modded so I can't speak for it's original sound. I will say however that with this modest mod (superclock II), I prefer it's sound to a stock SCD-1. I just wanted to give impressions. |
The Capitole MkII is a very nice component but it is by no means a reference player. Indeed it bests the Prima but not by the large difference in price.
"Blown away" was my metaphor for the combination of sonics and price. That being said, the Canary blows away the Prima. |
I love that "blown away" Stan. But you're the man..the Prima doesn't get blown away by the Capitole MkII..."blown away?" |
The Prima is nice but gets blown away by the new and similiarly priced Canary CD-100. It uses 6922 output tubes which allows the owner to upgrade significantly. |
Can anyone comment on how it compares with a stock sony xa777es? |
Hey,Warren,you really like the Prima ! Thats a good sign for me ...I am deciding soon.
Waiting for the verdict from someone who's Prima II is breaking in at the moment... |
you're fishing Rene. After a couple of cds, you know what you gotta know about that remote. I least I do... |
O.K. there's one critizism to the Prima that I will even agree on:
The remote has to many buttons that have no function:
Display, CD, Pre/Amp, CD/Pre, Ch up, Ch down, Vol up, Vol down, Phase
;)
Rene |
you'll be ready for a new cdp, particulary if you are an audiophool, before those tubes go... |
The 6021W subminiature tube have a fairly long lifetime (20000 hours). Assuming you leave it on 24 hours 365 day =8760 h, the tubes will last for 2.5 years. At that point you there is no warranty left and you (or a friend) can safely solder new ones into the player yourself. If the player is still under waranty you might want to sent it back to the distributor. In the worst case shipping it to the US distributor and back should not be more than $150 roundtrip, which is still less than what most people spent on tube rolling in three years.
Also one more comment: I have had pretty good experience with the Audio Aero distributor (Globe Audio). I got my Prima as a DEMO from the dealer with a slightly dented cover. Globe Audio send me a new replacement directly from Canada to the US, no shipping charges. Also, they always answered my questions with great detail and promptly. Nice to have someone standing behind the products they sell, which is particularly important with overseas products.
Happy listening.
Rene |
I have heard that you have to send the Prima to the factory to replace the output tubes. Is this correct? If so, it seems to be a bit of a hassle. |
