Look NO! @ all of these response why. Speakers love the very best Amp driven them to Nirvana. Pass/TA Arc/etc,etc. If your eye's on a PASS LABS own it.
Guess what! Not the exact SOUND YOUR EARS WANTED. No problem. To cool, to warm
to hot of top end, To lose bass. What to do. Well interconnects, power cables, fuses,
all of these can be GAME changers. The Cable Co online will loan you al box full of each
to dial in your Nirvana return the rest you pay UPS both ways only.. All of these tweats are nothing more than than ear tuners!!
Trust me my first Audio serious system back in 1969.
Been through all of THIS is the best BS suggestors...
Mr. Pass makes very nice Solid State amps, among the best out there. Hes a cool guy !! Unfortunately, solid state amps typically require a certain amount of negative feedback, which adds an OUT OF TIME component to the music's playback.
Fortunately for music lovers, there is an inherently better device called the triode vacuum tube, that when done well, can operate without feedback and can become a better-sounding amplifier than ANY solid state device can be made into.
There are two problems with tube designs however
(1) The best performing amps will be 3 Watts or less
(2) 99.90 percent of the tube amps built, past and present, simply don't cut the mustard
The solution to number (1) above, is very easy : select the best sounding amplifier ( which is THE weakest link in the system ) as the FIRST priority in your State of the Art Hi Fi system. Then, find a really good high-efficiency speaker . I am thinking of a simple two- way, ALTEC, GPA and ALE.
The solution to number (2) above, which tube amp to buy, is very easy. There is only one person, known to me over the past dozen years, who builds the best performing tube amps ever made. He is out of Livingston, Montana , USA, and his name is Dennis Fraker. His small company ( one man ) is called Serious Stereo.
I would simply suggest, anyone who seeks the best listening experience, to visit Dennis at his place in Montana, and allow him to demo his late-2018 system for you. You will know, right away, from what you hear !!
Also, he is a very nice person to interact with, smart, caring, and honest. Look him up on the web, you can call and talk to him !! But most of all, visit and listen for yourself. The proof of the pudding .
Well, now you have the truth, at least as " I " see / experience / hear it. Go visit and listen for yourself. You will be educated.
Why nobody reviews accuphase power amps? Because the pass are better? Now I really started think about pass . Maybe I should push out my accu. And replace it with pass ??? But which model???
I am a professional A/V reviewer and have had many systems in my home and currently all three of my systems have Pass electronics. My situation may be different from those who have written in previously because when I evaluate new equipment such as speakers, I need to have a reference point to assess their voicing. The most critical thing, IMHO, is to have the opportunity to see how amplifiers and front end sources work with their speakers. There is little science here in that specs on the bench will not tell you how an amp will sound with your speakers until you actually hook it up. For those considering the purchase of a stand-alone amplifier or integrated amplifier, one of the most important criteria is reliability followed by customer care. I have had several amplifiers leave my system on those grounds alone. Since bricks and mortar audio stores are not as prevalent as they were two decades ago, it is worth while for potential customers to contact the manufacturers directly. A good company will tell you what speakers they have used in designing and testing their amplifiers. An even better company or dealer would give you a 30-day trial on a demo unit. So using the term "best" is not the right question to pose, as there will be no "best" amplifier for every system. For cakyol, $15K opens up a lot of possibility and, in my experience, the biggest bang for the buck is investing in good separates that can be individually upgraded as the need arises.
Pass labs it good, of course, but even beter is Audio Note,Gamut,Esoteric.Pass missed “something in the mid” and not so holographic an the other ones. The speakers are very inportent . Use the Ilumnia Magister in combination with. That’s pure natural music!!
Always interesting when someone tries to claim “best”. I agree with a number of the previous comments, especially that it is all about system synergy. Pass Labs build quality and customer service are legendary. I have recently auditioned a large number of amps trying to find the “right fit” for my system and my biases. These included a Dennis Had Fire-Bottle, ARC, SIT-3, Bedini, F6, Sunfire, Counterpoint, BEL and Coincident. Before I go further let me say I’m all vinyl with an Aesthetix IO sig front end, a “Truth” passive pre and VSA speakers. For me, in this kit, the 211/300b based Coincident Dragon MKll’s are sublime, followed surprisingly closely by 40+ year old class A SS Bedini’s. Unfortunately, it is very expensive and time-consuming to audition amps. I would say don’t hurry and get 30 day Right Of Returns, even if you have to pay a restocking fee. Fortunately, a number of manufacturers will allow you to test gear, but some won’t. Also, don’t overlook the stars of yesteryear.
COUPLE OF comments- A Pass integrated amp (and many others) do not come with fixed outputs. If you have a tape/ digital recorder it's not a good choice. Pass XA amps run VERY hot. Pass ALEPH amps run VERY hot. Some of their amps must be switched on by reaching BEHIND the amplifier. This can be extremely inconvenient in some set-ups impossible. The newer faceplates are much nicer looking than the previous design which was a total waste of aluminum and money (IMO). The BIAS METER is completely unnessesary but it's still something you must pay for. The wing style speaker connectors may interfere with tightening large cables. The old 5-in-one connectors were EASY to use. (this goes for Levinson and Krell owners also). I like Rowland gear also and it runs cool. But it's expensive and the fancy "diamond cut" faceplates are easy to scratch up. But a friend has Aleph 1.2 mono blocks and although they are "not as good" as the new stuff, but OMG are they great sounding. I would NEVER recommend that he sell them. But he did have to buy a remote switching unit because the power switches are on the back panel and hard to access. High end audio is a pain in the "neck".
Checkout Michael Lavorgna's product of the year for 2018 on twitteringmachines.com
Its an amp that was released in 2005 and is very reasonably priced compared to some of the other amps you've mentioned. They are hand made to order and there is almost no advertising about them aside from when they were released over a decade ago.
I had to fire up the xa30.5 with all the chatter on Pass..... Long story short. Aside from the accolades on Pass products I am equally impressed what this man has done for the community --the average or not so average listener and even more so the DIY'er. Very few in such positions of ability and knowledge will share it with the masses and mix it up at DIY events.
If you got $15,000 to spend I would highly recommend the PS Audio BHK-300 mono amps and their matching pre-amp. The sound this combination makes is in my opinion the very best bargain in all of the high end. Best of luck.
@cakyol The cost of the amp does not quantify the improvement in sound you are getting. If class A/B is what you are considering then getting a good implementation with first 20 watts of class A into your speaker given the impedance would be nice. The rest can be class A/B, make sure the amp never reaches clipping. Some speakers need high current and good voltage swings, so amp that can do that is what you should consider.
I was looking for same and was considering the significantly less expensive and some not so famous amps by Coda, Odyssey, Parasound, ATI and ATC P2 etc.
I would wager that if you level match the above amps you may not hear any difference at normal listening levels. My preamp is Legacy Wavelet which is more expensive than the amp, it comes with room correction and are integrated to work well with Legacy Speakers.
You may want to consider Krell. I’ve had several models pushing B&W 802 and KEF. Currently, I have Krell’s 575 Solo coupled with Martin Logan 13a. A reason I mention them is that they just upgraded their line, “XD”, which has been well received by both Stereophile and Tone Audio. Like Pass, friendly and great service.
I like Nelson Pass. His stuff is good. Are and Spectral stuff is better. If you are going to spend in that range. You owe it to yourself to listen first.
One of the things you want to consider is not only build quality but service after the fact. I have a Pass Labs X250 sounds wonderful bought it second hand if I have questions I can call Pass Labs and they will answer questions as if you just made the perchase yesterday. Have communicated with Kent English a number of times always willing to help.
I also just bought a PS Audio Signiture 250 amplifier best I have ever herd for the money. Also CS is outstanding have communicated with Founder ( Paul M) he responded to my email within hours. Call an 800 for Marantz took 3 weeks to get a call back and it was the USA sales line
Also in my opinion Luxman and Macintosh do not have the build quality they had years ago. I have also heard repair on Macintosh even from a certified repair shop sucks.
Also not sure why one of the people that responded would want to keep his amp on 24/7 if someone has the answer please respond
I too have Pass Labs on my short list of amps I would like to try. Pass X260.8, as well as PS Audio BHK 300 Monos are my two short listed SS Amps. I have the BHK Pre with NOS tubes (the Tungrams recommended by Uncle Kevin). My speakers are Von Schweikert VR 5 Anniversary Mk 2s, and I am currently bi-amping with a highly modified Sonic Frontiers Power 1 SE+ on the top (KT150s) and a pair of custom built Class D Audio monoblocks for the base. The sound is superb, but I am growing tired of large power tube maintenance, cathode resisters blowing every 6 - 7 months, and would like to simplify. The input tubes of the BHK wouldn’t be a bother for me, as I know those amps would be a great match for my pre, as well as speakers. That said, I am still interested in owning a Pass. I owned Bryston 7BSST for quite a while, and although they were a great match for my older VR 3.5 speakers, they were not a good match with my VR 5 Anniversaries. Anyone here have experience running Pass X series monos with Von Schweikerts? I do not have a local dealer close to me, and the Pass Dealer that is 1.5 hours away does not sell PS Audio.
Pass gets lots of accolades and praise, so they must be good! I have really no experience with them. I have a Luxman L-590AxII integrated. It's full class A power. Sounds spectacular and has a built in phono stage, which is also excellent. Others I considered were the Esoteric F-07 integrated. I see, maybe it's new, Mark Levinson - No 5805 Integrated. It has phono and digital inputs.
These are all available at Music Direct. No I don't work for them. I mention them because they have a generous 60 day return policy and they make returns easy. This is essential for trying whatever you decide to purchase; you need to try it in your system. It is the only way to know, if a piece is right for you.
With that budget, I second duckworp’s recommendation. If you can find a good 2nd hand Vitus SIA-025Mk2 Class A integrated, that is a very musical, warm sounding amp which will drive your speakers with authority. I own the SIA-025 Mk1 and it is a peach of an amp. If you’re buying new, I can recommend the Vitus RI-101 which is $15.6kUS. It is a powerful, natural/organic and musical sounding amp. I really like it. The new RI-101 is also closer to the SIA-025 than the old RI-100.
Re: Pass, I’ve heard the Pass XA-250.8/XP-20 combo and clearly preferred the SIA-025 running in Class A. I’d even take the RI-101 over that combo. But remember, we all hear things differently and this is just my opinion.
I have a Perla Audio integrated that sounds similar to the Pass .8 amps. The big difference is that the Perla uses 5W at standby vs like 250W for the Pass. It’s also not covered in giant heat sinks, and is Class AB.
i know some don’t care about this, but after hearing the Perla amp it kind of made the hulking and power hungry Pass amp that’s heavily A biased feel antiquated.
I had my choices down to two integrated amps, I passed on the PASS INT 250 after hearing the T+A 2500R integrated. It just did everything better and looked better. Even though I really liked it, I was able to trade the 2500R for their higher end T+A PA300HV Integrated which was used. Outstanding amp for the money, in an entirely different league than the PASS. I recently heard the new Luxman integrated driving the new Wilson Audio Sasha DAW’s...killer amp. I would take the new Luxman or a T+A amp any day over the PASS int 250.
@cakyol see if you can audition and compare to Jbl 4367. I think you’ll be surprised how much better the 4367 can perform compared to the other speakers in the synthesis range.
You ask "best ever"? Perhaps for your ear, perhaps not. I considered Passes 150 wpc integrated, and auditioned it...twice! Then I heard the Technical Brain integrated and was floored, I've owned more highend gear than I care to admit (Tube. SS. mono blocks) but for my room/speakers nothing has ever sounded like this Tech Brain integrated & phono stage It would be ideal to use a "multiple step process" before you let go of that hard earned green. Take the Pass home to your system and listen to what it sounds like in your environment, and, you will probably love it, especially if it's a rather large step up from the electronics you now own...the second step would be to return the Pass and try another amp in the same range. See how you react to a few different designs. You might be surprised, then again, you may realize the Pass is what you like...the one you pick will be the "best ever". Your speakers are the mouth piece of your system, so the "basic sound" is something that will not change...it's all the other things that will...tonal tilt, warmth, detail, sound stage...your looking to change the heart of your system. Pass is a strong one!
Not sure if anyone mentioned this (probably), but not every amp is a great fit for the speakers you have. So 'best' really can not apply to any single piece of gear.
We sell Wilson, Sonus Faber, KEF, and others and have been Bryston dealer for years, but grew up on Classe' and Mark Levinson. When we took an older PASS 250.5 in on trade and it simply bested our brand new (but burned in) Bryston 14B3 on a pair of Sonus Faber Il Cremonese's, we became a PASS dealer. We've been pairing PASS with most Wilson's and have not found a bad combination of speakers to run with them. We also demo all speakers over $10K with a pass amp and often sell the amp too.
I typically avoid the forums as a dealer so as to not promote ourselves, but we really do like the PASS products (despite the fact our current order of gear will ship Feb 2019 :-(
That is such a hard question to answer, I had a Pass X350 and it was quite sterile sounding, beautiful build quality but not for my system at the time. Your question is impossible to answer as it depends on your personal taste and your system. There is no such thing as a best component, it’s too subjective. You should be asking yourself what do you like the best as that’s all that matters!!!
But I wanna keep my Had amp...I like it...and have decided to send the 4 grand to Almarg as that seems fair. However, there was a temporary weird crackling sound from my speakers which I now realize was Kosst "underscore" Amojan crunching their numbers.
There "is" a Nelson Pass designed vintage SS amp that for the money and to me that is "Crazy good" sounding. The "Nakamichi PA-7", is one of his "Stasis" designs he did for them and are built like tanks and rated "200Wpc. @8Ohm" and down to 2Ohm very stable as well in my experience. OR, the last year of that model was 225Wpc. Those are marked, Pa-7ii. "No roman numerals on this keyboard!" I have one rig put together using nine of them. "Tri-amped mains plus surrounds and a bi-amped center for watching movies". But I do need to either turn the heat down or off in the winter about half-way through a movie! They are a nice design for a class A/B and reliable. They seem to run about $1200-1500 for a nice one, But I have seen them for 4-600 as well. But the nice one's? "As in mint cosmetically and serviced". I think they are a hell of a deal as long as serviced by a good rep. company. Most were bought of course by guy's that still take allot of pride in them. One I bought even had the orig. top removed and a vented plexiglass top installed so you can see that giant "Nakamichi" labeled, toroidal transformer in the front that is about 9" in dia. and the four big caps. It's my favorite one of the bunch. I do get lots of comments from friends on it. But it's not to impress anyone but, "Lil 'ole me! And they do a good job of that. In fact the "Firefight" at the end of the movie, "The Accountant"? My friends still gossip about that as we watched it the room with that rig! Amazing! And, Just think of all the good that the $13,500 that you saved would do for your favorite charity! Or you could start your own!
I've heard a top end Pass System and I'm .... mystified. I'm sorry but they don't do it for me. They're not even as good as Parasound Halo line. To my ears they are thin and not particularly revealing.
If I had the money and space I'd buy Ayre and never ever look at Pass again.
There are a number of great amplifiers out there, both tube and solid state, for a range of prices. I have been lucky enough to have many of them from ARC and CJ tubes to a number of Rowland, Levinson, Krell and, yes, Pass Labs amps including most recently the XA100.5's. I have not owned the 0.8 series Pass amps yet. Having said that, a critical factor for most amps remains the speaker-amp interaction. I have ML CLX's and Pass Labs has recommended the larger X 0.8 amps which they feel are better suited to driving the CLX's than the XA series due to its need for higher voltage and amperage as well as its punishing impedance curve. Your taste in music and in what aspects of music reproduction are most important to you are obviously critical as well; no amp or speaker is perfect. This sounds trite, but I really think that you need to hear your speakers with the amps under consideration. Others have opinions, but you may not share them.
One of their greatest strengths is that while they may not be the "perfect" pairing with a given set of speakers, they typically sound damn good with everything. So, as far as an investment that is nice to know.
I've run my 250.8 with power hogs, and with easy loads. I've swapped out amps on the same speakers. Typically, the pass still sounds the best.
The 250.8 however I believe is one of Nelsons best designs. I like it better than the 350.8 when I've heard it.
Regarding the SIT3, an important point to note is that it has an extremely low gain (for a power amp) of only 11.5 db. Power amp gains are typically in the mid to high 20s. Most Pass Labs amps have gains of 26 db for example, although most of the other First Watt amps have gains in the teens.
Consequently it can be calculated that the SIT3 will require a single-ended input (it does not provide a balanced input) of about 3.2 volts to be driven to its maximum power capability of 18 watts into 8 ohms. If a digital source having a volume control is used without an active preamp it will almost certainly not be able to provide that much voltage, even with the volume control at max. And in many and perhaps most cases vinyl or other analog sources won't be able to do so even when used in conjunction with an active preamp.
I considered purchasing a SIT3 recently, but that factor made it a non-starter for my system. I went with a Pass Labs XA25 instead, which I have been delighted with.
Didn’t I just mention the SIT amp? Are you trying to make me feel sad? I've read a lot of reviews of that thing but I’m stuck!..I REALLY like my Had amp...it just sounds so good...and the tubes glow...plays plenty LOUD if need be simply since my speakers are (supposedly) 99db...Why? Why? I’ll just have to think of something else to do with four thousand dollars...*sigh*...
I’ve always liked Nelson Pass and his designs but unfortunately I’m tied to a little Dennis Had single ended tube amp driving efficient speakers...I can’t break loose...that new 25 watt Pass amp seems SO cool...but I fool myself into thinking tubes are just better sounding...maybe the SIT First Watt amp...no...I can’t do it...damn.
Pass are superb, there is better. for less, shop around, listen and learn. I went with McCormack. —-and no turning back now. Im hooked on Steve’s house sound. Passed up a Pass mono pair for the McCormack monos’, could not be happier, your ears will tell you what you like, when the goosebumps hit......you will know. Enjoy the hunt.
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