Right. Except there aren't any. There are no bits on a CD. What you think are bits are really pits and land. Low and high. The pits and land are different lengths, the length corresponding to a word or string of bits. So a pit or land does not correspond to a 1 or a 0 it corresponds to a whole string of 1's and 0's. Since the length of the pit or land is what determines the string then timing matters which means when you really get right down to it its analog not digital.
Bad analog, at that. So of course they will sound inferior. But that was not your question. You asked, will the old unit sound "as" inferior. In other words, is one digital less crappy than another, or are they all equally crappy? Unfortunately here the news is even worse. The only way to know is try and hear for yourself. Just to let you know in advance, this is bound to be unpleasant. But as Mike says you play the cards you're dealt.
|
If the old pioneer is working properly and you go through the same dac it should work fine. I think the weak link of that player was the slow write speed. |
millercarbon There are no bits on a CD. What you think are bits are really pits and land ... Since the length of the pit or land is what determines the string then timing matters which means when you really get right down to it its analog not digital. This is especially convoluted pretzel logic. A CD is not analog. It contains a non-continuous, discrete string of data that is not an "analog" of any signal, but a mathematical representation of a signal. That’s what digital is. The timing issue - for the purpose of resolving data - is functionally perfect. Timing data is included in the data string and any error is trivial compared to even the best analog. That’s why you can install even a complex computer OS from a digital disc without issue. The data is absolutely the same every time. I’m not saying digital is perfect, by the way, and getting digital data from disc to DAC and out to analog is not a trivial task when fidelity is the goal. But CD is not analog. Not even close. The only way to know is try and hear for yourself. I agree there. That is always, always, always the case. |
steve59
In theory bits are bits right? There are differences, read error correction is not the same and can vary quite considerably between CD transports, and an error is replaced (guessed) by what came before it, a 1 or 0 and it only gets it right 50% of the time. As well as the amount of jitter out of that spidf output, which I had a jitter counter to read it and they are very different. Better transports have less read errors, and better jitter on their outputs. If you want another good cheap CD transport, get a Cambridge Audio CXC very good, not the best, but you have to pay big bucks for those and not that much better. Cheers George |
Thanks for the replies. I have the option of burning them to my pc to load into my streamer, but I’m not ready to give up the cd format completely yet. |
I have the option of burning Don’t burn, much more errors come with doing this, that why they nearly always sound brighter, and less easy to listen to. Left-original store bought stamped CD Center and right both burnt, one gold blank the other normal https://ibb.co/grHv6z7Now you can see why the error increases the pits/lands are deformed. Cheers George |
My opinion based on owning many CD transports is NO, they are not all created equal.
|
@steve59,
I understand you are not quite ready to give up on CD’s yet. I would use Pioneer player in the interim and invest in a high quality streamer with internal hard drive so you can enjoy bit perfect rips of your CD’s.
There are plenty of software programs (Express Rip, Audiograbber) and standalone high quality ripper like Innuos Zen Mini MK3 or Vault 2i that will make exact copies of your original CD’s.
My 800 plus CD’s rips stored on my Aurender N10 sounds just as good as my original CD’s. |
I would use Pioneer player in the interim and invest in a high quality streamer with internal hard drive so you can enjoy bit perfect rips of your CD’s. This will only be close to bit perfect if he uses a good CD transport, other wise there’ll be errors and jitter transferred to the HD. Then there’s write and read back errors from the HD, probably powered by an smp, so noise to add to that also. I’ve yet to hear a streamer/hd sound as good as a proper CD transport playing the same CD. Cheers George |
|
steve59
there has never been a better time to keep your CDs and enjoy a newer cd player/transport. Utilize the Pioneer Elite in the short term while auditioning other options. Post an impression or opinion on Jupiter vs PDR-10RW.
Happy Listening!
|
For whichever transport you use ensuring the disc is spinning absolutely level is a start in the right direction. Also painting the tray turquoise is a good idea.
|
“This will only be close to bit perfect if he uses a good CD transport, other wise there’ll be errors and jitter transferred to the HD.
Then there’s write and read back errors from the HD, probably powered by an smp, so noise to add to that also.
I’ve yet to hear a streamer/hd sound as good as a proper CD transport playing the same CD“
@georgehifi
I see no point in engaging folks who speaks from ignorance. You have been peddling your BS 80’s views over and over. Open your mind my friend and go listen to a decent streaming setup at your friend’s place or a dealer.
|
I see no point in engaging folks who speaks from ignorance.
Contradictions/oxymoron , so why engage me, seems you you don’t know which way is up🤦♂️ Open your mind my friend and go listen to a decent streaming setup at your friend’s place or a dealer. Don’t have to, they bring there streaming stuff here and put it in my system, and then are shocked when the same is played on my CD transport. So go peddle yourself🤦♂️ I am a fuse adopter with a digital front end. My system has combination of SR Black’s and HiFi Tuning Supreme Au/Ag and Cu Fuses. And real rich coming from a fuser |
Interesting how a simple question can lead to controversy!
@steve59 in answer to your question: get yourself a reasonably good player, preferably used, and use the transport function, teac have good transports btw— or do as suggested above, buy a reasonably priced transport.
Later on you'll will probably migrate to a music library & streaming, but for now, enjoy your music.
|
Interesting how a simple question can lead to controversy! Look who started it, a fuser 🤷♂️ |
“Don’t have to, they bring there streaming stuff here and put it in my system, and then are shocked when the same is played on my CD transport.“
Thanks for the laughs...enjoy your boombox 😆 |
If you have a decent DAC, the Cambridge transport (circa $350-400) is an excellent choice. I use one, plus a Bryston BDA-2 in the secondary system.
If you want superb Redbook playback, the Bryston BCD-3 is a superb player spinner, although a bit pricey. |
I bought a roon nucleus last year and have a sub to tidal. my pre/dac can do the first fold and if I finally understand this a dac inside my dsp speakers does the 2nd fold. I managed to get much of my library loaded into the hdd but still have several that are unavailable on tidal and my rega no longer can read. The jupiter was better than average in its day, but the last year or so it sounded to me like streaming sounded better, which when you consider all my digital goes thru the same dac makes me wonder if I can trust my ears and the reason I posed the question initially. |
Honestly, If it sounds better to your ears, you don’t need anyone’s validation.
Enjoy the much improved and modern world of high quality digital streaming and bit perfect cd rips. |
My reason for posting is that I have a decent quantity of discs I can’t get on tidal and since my reference transport kicked the bucket I wanted to know what you guys, in your own experience find using different transports. I’m not comparing streaming to playing discs, not directly anyhow.
When I transfer the cd's to the hard drive plugged into my streamer(nucleus)I think the most accurate burn will sound best. I'll leave the player on the rack but quit using it once the music is transferred. |
