The Ps Audio Directstream is the best sounding, to my memory, digital to analog converter I've owned thus far. Just when you think the sound of this unit is a certain way, Ps Audio releases a firmware update for free. After updating the unit, you hear things in the recordings that were not present before. Very reasonably priced on the used market. Quite simply, if one has the means to purchase one, a no brainer.
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If you want to run directly to your amps, one thing to be careful of with the DS is the relatively low output voltage. I don't have a pre and that was a problem for me. During my demo I had to use it on the high voltage setting and still ran out of range if I wanted to listen loudly. The noise floor also becomes much more evident when listening on that setting. |
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audiotroy....the DS dac’s hardware is still,and always has been, a top notch design. Ted Smith is not the dummy you seem to think he is...It has been favorably compared sonically to units twice the price and has over the last five years received a tremendous amount of “over the top reviews” from some of the best rags in the industry in which a lot of reviewers have used it as their reference. The dac’s you keep mentioning that you carry are way more expensive than the DS. So to have you make that comparison speaks volumes of the sonic greatness of the DS or you wouldn’t keep bringing it up... And because you are clueless as to what Teds firmware updates accomplish...each successive update Ted implements in his dac...reduces jitter(and noise floor)to the point of making a great sounding dac design sound better then the previous one... Get over yourself!!! |
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I like the PS DSD DAC with Snowmass. I didn’t like Redcloud nearly as much. The magic of this DAC is likely in the transformer output. Like tubes, transformers aren’t the best measuring devices but somehow in some configurations they add clarity or enhance the sound. It may be galvanic isolation, perfect balance (great CMRR) or a tendency to have less IMD at higher frequencies or typical 3rd harmonic transformer distortion ( think power chord ). Whatever it is that transformers do - they most definitely have their charm - many of the best studio vocal microphones are transformer coupled to the mixing desk. I agree that multiple firmware updates that change the sound suggest that it was released a bit too early (a work in progress). I would hope it is now stabilized. I believe Snowmass is 4x DSD on the output. It will be interesting to see if Ted’s new DAC can improve things further or if this DAC was some kind of fluke...certainly the transformer output should ideally be placed further away from power and other circuits. If anything this DAC sounds a bit laid back but still punchy - could it be tape-like in the way it distorts but without hiss? Tape is treasured by audio professionals and it suffers from magnetic flux hysteresis and saturation much in the way a transformer does? |
I agree that multiple firmware updates that change the sound suggest that it was released a bit too early (a work in progress). I would hope it is now stabilized.By this logic, should never release iPhone, Linux, Windows ... because there're constant bug fix updates. With hardware implementation, V2 upgrade. Nothing is bug free!!! |
Sheesh audiotroy..... PS Audio offers a tremendous value by way of a free upgrade path that..."without a doubt"...brings "more enjoyment" to any owner...and you consider it a "work in progress"? It’s not a work in progress....its called "value for money" and a totally innovative design in the audio arts. It may not be the best sounding dac in the world...but for money spent...it is a fantastic music making machine in every way...and thousands of people must agree with me... by the sheer virtue of opening up their wallets for purchase... If you want to spend huge sums of money on a dac that will be,by your standard of thinking,a boat anchor in five years...by all means... go right ahead. |
Tell the boat anchor to tbe Perfect Wave guys through the magic of firmware did tbe Perfect Wave magically morph into the Direct Stream? No different hardware. Direct Stream to Direct Stream verson 2 seems like also a hardware change will be required as well. Seems like firmware can only take you so far doesnt it? Joecasey in many techology platforms an older 3-5 year cell phone can be updated to run the latest Os however usually the experience isnt fantastic as people want a faster cpu more memory and greater battery life hence the desire to explore the updates that only really occur with new and more advanced hardware |
Joecasey in many techology platforms an older 3-5 year cell phone can be updated to run the latest Os however usually the experience isnt fantastic as people want a faster cpu more memory and greater battery life hence the desire to explore the updates that only really occur with new and more advanced hardwareAgree but extends life of a product. What happens when firmware implemented in hardware has bugs? Audiophile market is too small to attract money, best and brightest. If you want latest technology, checkout big market products such as TVs. They all have ethernet connection for updates. Nobody builds strictly in hardware. OLD technology! |
A do-it-all FPGA or chip in a DAC is far from "ideal" in my opinion for several reasons: First, they are resource constrained compared to the processing even a modest and cheap PC (that is leveraging economies of scale) can do. You can get far more advanced and powerful filters, and YOUR CHOICE of filter with the push of a button when you're doing the processing server side. With Directstream you either like the sound of the current firmware filter or you're forced to "downgrade" to an older firmware that has been "destroyed in sound quality" by the latest one according to forum posters. Silly in my opinion. Secondly, when doing this processing server side you are moving the signal processing/filtering and its electrical noise AWAY from the noise-sensitive analog signal and even into another room if you'd like; always a good thing. Unfortunately many Boomer audiophiles still use AOL to "download their emails" so these solutions like PS Audio's magic firmware "upgrades" will continue to thrive. The future of DACs will be NOS mode with filtering done server side, giving you a wide array of filtering options to suit your taste. T+A is already all over this in their flagship design that will now accept a 1024 DSD signal and simply do nothing to harm the pristine bits that were processed on the server. |
Thank you Emcdade a voice of reason. We are not against the PS audio Direct Stream, but we have seen this behavior before, where a product didn’t perform correctly or didn’t sound as good as it should, and then was magically fixed via a firmware update. This begs the question why a firmware fix was required in the first place? Our point made was that market leaders in digital raraly ever need to create a firmware update because their product was right in the first place this is called a mature design. Our other point was that many of the PS audio lovers here fail to take into consideration that in all technology and performance based products there will always come a time when the hardware will need to be supplianted in order to evolve a product into its next and far greater self. Take flat panel TV, first 480i, then 480p, then 720p, then 1080p, then 3D then 4k and of course the Plasma vs LCD wars, and the real breakthroughs which was LG rethinking display technlogy which created OLED and this also forced Samsung into developing Quantum dot and QLED which wil be Samsungs first true counter to OLED’s superior technlogy over both Plasama and conventional LCD technologies. Technlogical innovation requires ever pushing hardware into new areas there will always be a software component but one needs to understand that sooner or later the next generation of performance will only be possible by newer and more advanced hardware. Our company sells many types of dacs and streamers for some people it is ultmate sound quality, for others it is convenience of having a great streamer/dac for others it is having completely modular fully upgradable infrastructure. People shouldn’t be so stuck on thinking that one component will last them a lifetime as who doesn’t love playing with a new toy? Dave and Troy Audio Doctor NJ |
Ted smith has been pretty transparent there are limitations in the poser supply and output transformers, however he has Ben able to continuously refine the current hardware platform. I just helped a friend set-up a new out of the box DirectStream DAC with the latest Firmware Windom. The unit was stiff as board and fairly suddenly came to life after 50 hours of operation. At first the sound was VERY relaxed and lack key detail. Then all of a sudden the sound character changed for the better, and WOW! Listening to a DSF file of Creedence’s Susie Q, the portion where John Fogerty is singing through a cone had a level clarity that knocked us off the couch. The detail is shocking what is pulled out of the noise floor. The user interface is atrocious and the unit is difficult to set-up for streaming. I can expand on that if anyone’s interested. Overall the unit is well worth the money and the current firmware version doesn’t resemble the unit shipped 5 years ago. PS Audio is about to release a whole new product they are nicknaming TSS for Ted Smith Signature edition. It’s likely to be half again more expensive but include Jensen output transformers and entirely new power supply. It plays 24/192 and DSF files brilliantly. It really shines making Red Book 14/44K files sound better than they should. |
I can’t seem to get much info on price other than it’ll likely be a $12-$15k DAC at least. The thing with Directstream that gives me pause is how high the THD has been measured in the past. I don’t know if these firmware updates are able to address the noise floor, but that’s one of the things that make it concerning. Also, aside from the TSS DAC, there may be a DS 2 that’s a little more in line price wise with the original. I’ll say that looking at the amount of deals for DS as it comes to the end of its life cycle is intriguing. Network card installed with Windom for $3-4k. |
I too moved on from the DS dac and Dmp transport. Seems that you can’t give away PS Audio equipment any more. I sold both units for less than half retail and was happy to sell them at that price. The re-sale prices will just continue to drop. Direct buy only is going to make PSA equipment a bad investment imho... |
Responding to CAkids comment…. The DirectStream DAC has a very long break in Period. A week is insufficient for the deck to really come into its own. Listening for a week I was disappointed with the presentation of the direct stream DAC but could hear the potential. Into the second week the DAC really woke up. Some have claimed in other reviews it takes as long as 200 or 300 hours or longer for it to fully break in. |
I owed the PS Audio Direct stream dac senior and direct stream player back in early 2017 , purchased new from Kevin Deal of Upscale Audio for what I thought was a smokin good deal . Both were purchased for less then the price of the asking figure of a single PS Audio component. With their screwy strategy of jacked up list prices and getting 40 plus percent off the bat from a dealer I jumped on it . However maybe I had bought a pair of lemons because I experienced a few very annoying screen glitches so after using them for about three months I bought a Denafrips terminator which quickly replaced the PS Audio dac senior for performance and value. |
I have wondered the same thing, and for a while I'd been messaging the sellers, asking why they were moving on, and the consistent reply was "moving up the food chain." So to me the explanation is simple - many were sold esp in the last 3-5 years, many of these ended up with an audiophile committed to their never ending pursuit of something better, hence a market glut. If you think that the best long term measure of owner satisfaction is current used fair market price vs original list price, and also agree that the prices of the best used gear rarely drop below 50% of their original list price, and realizing that the original list price for the DSD is very much inflated due to their marketing strategies (very lucrative trade-ins, low sale prices from dealers before they went direct, etc), you'd conclude that this DAC is still considered to be a sought after component. BTW my math here is a $6000 original list price and current used market value $3500 +/- $500. My 2cents - thanks OP for starting this thread! |
so much heat here on this thread, so little light as pointed out below, 6k list, units selling at 3-3.5k...what’s the problem for an expensive dac that is a reasonable depreciated value ted smith updates these, extends their lifespan - they sound very nice, very smooth and rich yes there is limit to software updates given a hardware platform, eventually all units get superceded with newer ones problems, if you want to call them that, is: 1. ps audio directstreams have been out there quite a few years now, good company good customer service, good marketing, so they have sold quite a few of these, so there are many out there to be traded (can’t say this for more ’niche-y’ gear) 2. there are some very good sounding dacs, close to or equal to a DS Dac, for quite a bit less money now... even the used price 3. there is scuttlebutt out there that ps audio is superceding the DS at some point in the near future 4. half the people who play with this stuff never sit still and enjoy what they have, they swap they trade they ’upgrade’ their stuff all the time, this is especially true for dacs as streaming becomes more popular each day 5. some other folks must simply have the newest hottest thing out there to be happy... fills that inner need, to feel bleeding edge or successful or hip, or whatever they call it... on the porsche forums there comes a slew of 981 cayman gt4's for sale when the 781 ’newer better’ version starts customer deliveries... does that make the 981 2016 model a lousy car all of a sudden? c’mon boys and girls... that 981 was the one that everyone wanted 4 years ago and we were cursing dealers for marking them up to customers and cursing porsche a.g. for making just a single model year run???? |
Jjss49 Sure there’s truth in what you say I personally know a component flipper forever chasing down that feel and flavour of the month . For me I would of happily kept the PS Audio pair if it operated as it should have . Purchasing the Denafrips Terminator dac was partly out of frustration with the Direct Stream senior , being a early adopter prior to the online Denafrips fan clubs erupted on the seen my interest was mainly with r2r dac technology and moving away from chip based dacs , the Terminator on paper looked great. Today with some of the prices of digital front ends and wanting longevity of ownership I would prefer a server with separate dac that are both hardware updatable like better ⏰ and what have you including firmware updates thrown in for good measure ,... |
With regard to the PS Audio break-in period: If a unit takes 200 to 300 hours to sound good, then I don’t want it. For me, that’s 6 months or more of listening to sub-optimum sound. Units that take that long to break in should be burned in by the manufacturer or dealer, IMO.A week or so of listening would be acceptable. |
I’m my own case the break in happened about 12 hours when a Seismic shift in the sound. Beyond that is diminishing rates of return. No one needs to listen for 3-6 months to get the broken in sounds. The DAC just needs to be running. Cycle some dynamic range music of shuffle for a week. That’s approaching 200 hours. The SDS DAC sounds terrific in 10+ hours. |
The modded Directstream MK1 is one of the best sounding DAC's. Even better than the "NEW" MK2. See the new info here: https://forum.audiogon.com/posts/2608487
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