Man, I wish every one of my customers were as nice and patient as you!
I have a pair of Alto Utopias and will only get rid of them to go up the line (bigger).
Enjoy! |
Something new to update, I can't believe this but the dealer has offered me a pair of Scala V2 for just a little more, this amount I'm guessing is mostly to cover shipping. Giving the price jump from the V1 to V2 it's more than reasonable.
I must say this dealer has treated me with so much care even with what little if any money they made on me. I really do feel like I'm getting a great deal. I'm a so excited for the V2 speakers, I can't wait! |
Jon, I'm glad you have this worked out. Now you can start looking into amplification seriously without the nagging afterthoughts to bother you. |
I think we worked out a deal that makes everyone happy. We are working out the details and should have it wrapped up soon. So far I must say the dealer has been on it as far as trying to make me happy. This was something I offered, not them and they accepted. Must say that's very cool of them.
They are going to see about compensation from the importer after I'm taken care of. I am very excited to get the system completed. Focal makes a amazining speakers and I can't wait to have components that will make these speaker really sign.
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I'm sorry, but I guess I'm just not trustworthy. I can hardly believe this dealer didn't know what they were, especially if they gave you a better deal on them than 10-15% off new pair retail price.
If you purchased these speakers as brand new in box, never played and direct from the factory after manufacturing, then its what you should get. Any chips in the paint and defects are likely due to the speakers being moved and shipped multiple times. And yes, I'm certain they haven't been in static display since manufacturing.
You should definitely receive a brand new pair of speakers shipped to you. Nothing else would be acceptable if you purchased these speakers with the common knowledge between you and the dealer that these were brand new, never opened, never played. If that makes me unreasonable and uncaring for a high end audio dealer to have that expectation, then I guess I am unreasonable. |
I wanted to give an update on the status. It took some time but I was able to find out what the real status of these speakers were.
I contacted the importer for the speakers and they were very helpful and got me all the information I needed. They were in fact demo units for Focal. I'm guessing they were used for display purposes. The driver units sounded very different when I first hooked them up. The bass was very boomy and midrange wasn't a good as I've heard in the past. After leaving them on for a week at lower levels they really started sounding good, some of the best speakers I've herd. I'm very happy with the sound and believe they were not used review units because all the drivers needed breaking in.
I in turn told the dealer the news I received and they sounded surprised and wanted to let me know they had no idea. Before everyone tells me I'm a fool for believing them, it doesn't really matter to me because they are trying their best to resolve the issue. I won't go into details, but they gave me a few offers, one being a 100% refund. I wasn't too impressed with the other two and returning the speakers is going to just waist thousands of dollars in shipping for them and I'm left with nothing. I just gave a counter offer and they are thinking it over. The last offer is, I think very fair for all parties.
I'm not sure how it will turn out but at this point returning them or if they accept my offer I think they do want to make me happy with out taking a huge hit on them which I can understand. Who's every fault this was if I'm happy in the end I think that's all that matters.
One more note, I would love to have a new pair, what I paid for in the first place. I understand this would be tons of money in shipping and me being a small business owner this really hurts the business. I have had product I've sold get a little crack in transit, I not only replace the until but I let them keep the still usable cracked unit. This is only about $60 in shipping though. It hurts me and I lose money on the sale, but I want the customer to be happy. Word of mouth is huge for me and have nothing but positive reviews online. In turn potential customers see this and feel safe buying for me. In the case of these speakers I think they would lose thousands and I'm not ready to do that to anyone trying to make a living. |
You should return these speakers and they should ship you a NEW pair in FLAWLESS condition, regardless of discount level. I can appreciate brand loyalty but frankly, you are going out of your way being way too nice! From what you write above, these were either demo or prior-owned (albeit potentially for a short period of time) and re-boxed/sold to you fraudulently or they were a new but faulty (exterior finish) pair of speakers that should never have left the factory. As far as the 'big discount'; that's a red herring in the discussion as the dealer sold you "new" speakers at a great price (his decision) that does not mean you have to settle for whatever comes out of the box. IMHO..... |
Yes, this was a previous pair I owned, not the pair I have now. I talked to the Focal dealer and he did confirm Focal do infact sell units put on display or sent out for reveiws. They sell them for a discounted price and make the dealer aware that they were used as show or review pieces.
I bought those used, private party. The guy said he bought them new but obviously that wasn't true.
The ones I have new were sold as new old stock, never opened. I do have a receipt for the Utopia speakers I have now. |
06-28-15: Yamahafirth
I was unaware Focal made speakers with the same serial numbers, one for consumers and other for reviews. This could be the case though. Funny they would use the same number twice. I even have pictures of them with serial numbers in my listening room. I was curious and looked it up and found them. :) the serial numbers do match the review.
You're being sarcastic, right? You obviously wound up with the review pair, which would have been shipped, set up, and played through multiple times around the country. Hardly qualifies as "NOS." Do you have anything in writing to prove the retailer preented these as NOS? Seems to me Focal could step in and make things uncomfortable for him. |
I'm really have been looking at either Devialet 400 mono units or Pass Labs XA100.5 monos and the XP20 pre.
The Devialet I can try from my local dealer. The Pass Labs I have yet to go see some in person.
They are so different but both look like great choices. |
I'm starting over from scratch. All I have are the speakers and Forté amp, this was used only for break-in of the speakers. The only thing I know I'll be using and have as well are Synergistic Research cables.
|
Deceiver777,
Question:
What's worse than a conspiracy theorist?
Answer:
Nothing.
Thanks for that.
|
"06-28-15: Yamahafirth
It's more frustrating for me because I like Focal products. I don't know how this happened. Was it a slip up from the team at Focal and just didn't see the blemishes? Maybe we're actually demos. Not knowing is frustrating."
Its the dealer, not Focal. And possibly the importer. If the dealer didn't have the speakers but knew you were serious about buying them, he may have asked the importer to find him some speakers that were "like new". Stuff like that happens all the time.
"I'm looking to get amps first, then a pre and last a source. I'm doing the source last because I'm not sure which way I want to go. So far I'm looking at:
Audio Research Ref 75
Devialet 200/400
Pass labs (same pricing)
Rogue Audio Apollo monos"
What's the rest of your system? |
It's more frustrating for me because I like Focal products. I don't know how this happened. Was it a slip up from the team at Focal and just didn't see the blemishes? Maybe we're actually demos. Not knowing is frustrating. It's like your neighbor scratching your car by accident it and not telling you. You don't want to blame him/her but you would always wonder.
I was unaware Focal made speakers with the same serial numbers, one for consumers and other for reviews. This could be the case though. Funny they would use the same number twice. I even have pictures of them with serial numbers in my listening room. I was curious and looked it up and found them. :) the serial numbers do match the review.
Anyway, I don't feel I would have paid as much as I did for demo pair. I past up a pair on Audiogon that I found that were $7,000 cheaper than what I paid for mine. Given they were used, but $7,000 I would have saved would have bought me cables, amp, ect.
I would be happy with some touch up paint and maybe an extra tweeter. The tweeters are exposed and all it take is a slip dusting and it would be nice to replace a dented tweeter.
As far as the front end, I would like to get a turn table, nothing fancy. My CD collection is much larger so that would be the first step. I am really looking in hi res content on a solid state hard drive or even an Aurender unit.
I would like to thank all who have had positive input to this tread. This would be my first one ever on any web site. It's nice to get other people opinions.
Anyone out there have Focal Utopias? I'm curious on anyone liking or disliking gear used with them. I'm looking to get amps first, then a pre and last a source. I'm doing the source last because I'm not sure which way I want to go. So far I'm looking at:
Audio Research Ref 75
Devialet 200/400
Pass labs (same pricing)
Rogue Audio Apollo monos
Thanks all again.
|
You should get 100% satisfaction with a $30000 purchase from an authorized dealer.
That's the bottom line. |
Zd542: All well and good, and if the OP can get redress from Focal, then fine.
I'm just saying that if the product is now 95% like new and is satisfactory for the money spent, it might be less stressful to just enjoy the speakers.
OTOH, if he has the energy and bandwidth to see it through, go for it. He might have a better chance if Focal agrees with the OP and the vendor stands to lose the Focal franchise if he doesn't come clean and fix it. |
"06-27-15: Johnnyb53
Do you think the discount you got is sufficient to cover both a discontinued model and demo units?
Another way to look at it, if you had bought a pre-owned pair of v1 Scalas in 9/10 or 8.5/10 condition, would you have paid about the same or significantly less?"
He really shouldn't have to settle for that. The OP was sold a new pair of speakers. NOS is still new. They should be in the same exact condition as the current model. Also, the discount is irrelevant for a couple of reasons. He should still get a full warranty regardless of price because the speakers were sold as new. Not only that, JM Labs did make their full markup on the speakers even though they were sold at a discount at the retail level. A dealer had to buy them at dealer cost. If the speakers get sold for less than retail, its the dealer who settles for a lesser profit. JM Labs got paid the full amount for those speakers. They shouldn't have a problem when it comes to warranty issues. |
Deceiver777,
Question:
What's worse than a conspiracy theorist?
Answer:
Nothing.
|
I think you should go see a Doctor....
|
Do you think the discount you got is sufficient to cover both a discontinued model and demo units?
Another way to look at it, if you had bought a pre-owned pair of v1 Scalas in 9/10 or 8.5/10 condition, would you have paid about the same or significantly less?
If about the same, enjoy the speakers. It looks like your buff-out took care of most of it.
Good idea to upgrade your upstream components. As a fellow owner of low cost vintage amps, you can do a lot better than the Forte.
Any chance you'd consider getting a turntable front end? |
I have a big discount ----------------
From that you must be start this thread.
And for stereophile Focal delivered speakers with any kind of serial number - it's produced only for test not for the customer. Serial number can be mutch with your speakers - but it's not the same speakers. |
Thanks for the response.
I think these days you have to spend $50,000 to get your speakers delivered in wooden vampire boxes. Lol.
I know Focal do sell "demo" units that have been on display and used for either show purposes or sent out to be reveiwed. I know this because I had a pair of Focal Electras I bought used that were in Stereophile. They listed the serial numbers in the review and matched the pair I had. So it does happen, Focal does sell "open" speakers.
I DID SAY THIS EARLIER, I DID RECEIVE A BIG DISCOUNT on these speakers, not because of them being opened but from being an out going model do to the V2. I guess it didn't charge that the fact they do have defects. |
I also agree with Henrycai. There is no way these are new and even B stock would be better packed by Focal. They also would not send them out with chipped paint unless this was an "as is" sale. Obviously these speakers have been out of the box before and if you bought them knowing this, you really have no complaint, because you wouldn't have paid retail for these. OTOH, if you bought these as "new" and paid accordingly, these need to go back, regardless of how shiny you can get them. Biggest concern would be resale value, plus you may have some hidden structural integrity issues down the line, depending upon how the paint got chipped, etc. Good luck. |
One thing that troubles me about this(actually there are several things that trouble me)is that you mention "cardboard"...I have to believe that these speakers must have originally shipped in wooden crates with a protective mold to insulate the speakers.I have a pair of original design Focal Utopia's from the 90's and they were crated and shipped from France.Two big wooden Crates like a Vampire movie,big as coffins.When I bought these at a bankruptcy auction,bascially new for 6,000.00,they had no defects even though they had been stored for years after little use the condition of the enclosure was darn near pristine.
It is hard to believe that Focal would ship a delicate,expensive speaker in cardboard.Maybe I am missing some new cardboard that superman could not violate?
Another point,and to me this is the biggie on this deal....start negotiating with the seller for a monetary compensation for the speaker damage or they will be returned at his expense.We are talking 5 grand here bare bones compensation,at least,that is where I would start and if it goes nowhere get those speakers ready to go down his throat or up his whatever.If you are not a good negotiator,find someone who is,and get the ball rolling.
You need to get mad behind this and it sounds like you are treating this like a fender bender in a supermarket parking lot.Bottom line,your costly purchase has been greatly devalued right out of the box for ant resale.Go forward with nails out! |
Agree with Henrycai completely.
If these were new, they were B stock. Does Focal even do that? |
What is wrong with this acoustics , I think it repainted and dealer earned on the resale of the used speakers , call him and let him come and takes this stuff to his house and listen to - and brings you a new from factory .
It reminds me of a dead car Mercedes , and then recovery and repainted - the same price the same business . |
I am sorry to say but I really have to agree with Henrycai.
This sounds like you received either a demo pair that was used in a dealer's listening room, or a pair that came from a previous owner who took them out of the box and returned them for unknown reason's because a company like Focal who I much admire would never ever box up a pair in the condition you described. I have been down this road before and can say if one opens a box and the products just doesn't look right, it probably isn't. If it was me, I would insist the dealer take them back and give you another brand new Factory sealed pair. You will then feel great again like 10 tons was just taken off your shoulders.
Man, I wouldn't mind owning that model you have.
Best of Luck to you. |
In the last photo, the paint towards the back of the speaker seems to be crazed, as if by extremes of temperature maybe. I think that is the most serious problem, and it would bother me. |
I am sorry you are going thru this, but if they were new
you would not be going thru this...The dealer can say what
he wants...thats does not make it true...those speakers
were out of the box n someone repacked them...it can be
done....I would Demand my money...n never buy from this
dealer again....you need to stop kidding yourself..wishing
they were new...won't make them new...good luck...
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I'm sending some links to show what I'm talking about.
This is the orange peel:
http://i744.photobucket.com/albums/xx89/yamahafirth/image.jpg4.jpg
http://i744.photobucket.com/albums/xx89/yamahafirth/image.jpg5.jpg
This is the chip and paint imperfection:
http://i744.photobucket.com/albums/xx89/yamahafirth/image.jpg1.jpg
http://i744.photobucket.com/albums/xx89/yamahafirth/image.jpg3.jpg
http://i744.photobucket.com/albums/xx89/yamahafirth/image.jpg2.jpg |
I called the dealer and they told me they were NOS Focal had and sold to them, I'm guessing at a discount. The box was unopened because it's stapled shut and it's very easy to tell if they were opened once before.
The dealer is helping me by contacting Focal on my behalf. |
Are you kidding me...sounds like you recived a DEMO PAIR..
wake UP
|
The dealer has been very nice. I am calling them to let them know. Unfortunately they are across the country and can't pop in. :(
I did contact Focal and they walked me through how to get the hazy areas off. Just for anyone else have issues with lacquered speakers here is what I did by the advise of the manufacturer.
First I dusted them well, making sure the areas I was going to buff were clean. Next I took a very light 3M rubbing compound and lightly but throughly hand buffed it with a very soft cloth. I let it dry and then buffed off any compound remaining.
Next I took Meguiar's cleaning wax and again applied with a little more pressure with a round application pad. Again waiting for it to dry and buffing it off with a special buffing towel.
I must say the speakers are 95% better. All the hazy areas are now gone. Overall the speaker looks wet also having much more depth. I'm guessing this something I'll never have to do again as long as I take care to not make any marks of my own.
The only thing left I can do is use a glaze wax. I have some high end glaze I used for my classic car from years ago. It's made to be used with dark paints so it should work fine. I'm not sure I want to use it considering the speakers already look much better.
I am very happy with the service I received from the dealer. They bent over backwards to make it possible for me to own these. I think the guy doing to quality control, one G. Cesa is to blame. I own a small business and it's hard having people representing you that are only there for a pay check. That's why I still do most of the work myself. Lol
I'm going to see if I can get some touch up paint for the areas that are chipped. I'm hoping Focal can help. :)
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You need to speak to your dealer. For them to deliver a pair of speakers like that and not unbox them and set them up for you is unheard of. Also, even if a home delivery was not done, its standard practice for the dealer to unbox the speakers before he gives them to the customer, just to check for damage. You didn't get these speakers from Best Buy.
This is the 2nd post like this in the last few weeks. I tell you exactly what I told the other poster. Call your dealer and tell him to get his ass back to your house and fix this immediately. After all, you did give him $30,000. If you take it upon yourself to try and fix whatever damage there is, you're crazy. They'll probably use it as an excuse to void your warranty. |
Thank you for the responses. They did make a long journey to get to me. They went from the east coast to me on the west coast. I should have listed this before but I ended up paying a good amount less because the Scala V2 were released and these being the V1 they wanted to sell them quickly.
I guess it doesn't change the fact they were new and retail for the $30,000. The dealer has been very nice and I will give them a call to bring up the blemishes. I know they didn't make much on them. I was thinking dealing straight with Focal. |
I wanted to apologize for the late night post. Now that I have had a good nights rest I see a several things I would change, lol.
I did get a quick response back from Focal and they went over how to polish out the hazy marks. This being the only thing I brought up with them because I know the paint defects can't be fixed without having them painted again.
Again this is not a thread bashing on Focal, I love their products. I have never received a product from them with blemishes before and wanted to see if anyone else has had an issue like this.
I can say the speakers make beautiful sounding music. I am running them with an old 50 watt class A Forté amp and a iPad. I know it's bad, but even with these I can tell they a truly great sounding speakers. I did end up pulling out my Oppo 105 to hear what a mid level unit would sound like and was very surprised how much better they sounded over the iPad with the Oppo unit and a well known SACD. They were already better than my last Focal Electras with powerful amp and tons of other gear. I did incorpate my Oppo 105 into my last system and it sounded very lean and was a little too digital sounding. I can say it sounds much fuller and more even through out the bandwidth with the Utopia speakers.
I am now on the hunt for an full system to accompany my Focals. At first I was leaning towards my typical big monos, Pass Labs or Rogue Audio Apollos. Along with a pre and a SACD player. Now I'm thinking to run Devialet 400 units and an Aurender X100L music server and my normal go to cabling and power distribution, Synergistic Research.
With the Devialet I use less than half as many cables, just four power (one supplied with the Synergistic power cell) cables, a set of speaker cables and a USB cable. |
IMO, a $30,000 should be perfect, cosmetically. The dealer earns his 40 points by making you happy with your purchase. I would be in touch with him (I assume he isn't local to you?), not Focal. |
I think that you are being very nice about this, maybe too nice. I don't consider myself a difficult customer who expects perfection, and all things made by humans will have small imperfections, but you mention quite a few . Chips of any kind or size in a brand new speaker would be unacceptable, not to mention all of the other defects that you listed.
I would ask the dealer to intercede with Focal on your behalf, and get you a new pair of speakers. That is a lot of money, and you deserve to be happy with them. |
