Lots of good used integrated amps and if the price is right, both buyer and seller will benefit. Hegel has alot of used but has sold alot too. Typically a good amp. Just buy right.
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Also on the Hegel pricing: used ones sell at a similar price of used AVAs, maybe 20% more. Which is very telling. The used market has a lot of $500 to a $1000 integrateds. It looks like Creek is really the winner there. Btw Leak has very similar construction than Hegel, but looks profoundly different. It’s a money pit :) |
Well, in perspective, the Hegel retailed for $3500 at the time the Set 120 was probably $1000. The Hegel, mine anyhow had more connectivity with its dac, pre outs and XLR, has 3X the power. And it had to come to the US through customs, a distributor and the retail showrooms. The Hegel cost more than the comparable Parasound Int. at the time too and those two amps were comparable although I preferred the SQ of the Hegel by a margin. There are alot of other amps of various design that were and still are much more in price. At the time I saw the Hegel as a high performance and reliable product at a still affordable price in a more high end audio product which I believe it was and probably still is. Not a budget product by any means but a good one and competitive among its peers. The VA I purchased knowing its limitations was solely due to its SQ as reported by users, and given its positive long history in business. And at a slightly used discounted price helped. When the owner, who isn't a only a one person operation passes, that may be the end of V/A as we know them. Just like Croft over in England did. Parasound was bought out. Hegel will probably pass hands too. But that happens with audio companies. Buy a good product whether the Company is there or not in a few years as its meant to be enjoyed, for as long as possible. I still think Hegel is a good product and within reach. Used prices are decent for buyers, I know its relative. The truly high end and far less accessible products even discounted are outside the reach of many. How much more that gives you, I don't know. Maybe a more you are there performance at louder SPLs, but I don;t want that either. Lots of good products that satisfy at various prices under or over a grand, which is good for all of us. |
@gano true. If you're gonna cost twice and still be made in China (Hegel)...that gives me pause. |
@seanheis1 that's a big difference I guess. But then Hegel must think that they have to give something for costing twice. Norwegianness? Sometimes when people pay more they think they get more... |
If one can consider themselves a budget audiophile, say someone who has had the typical introductory receivers, integrated and such, these 50 to 80 watt amps open some doors into a level that could satisfy for a long time. While there isn't alot there's still some, typically the larger brands but fewer among the more boutique manufacturers. So far I like it and still its an adjustment from what I have had. Paired with good speakers and a decent dac is all I need. I have the dacs covered and the Opticon for a budget speaker is pretty decent. I may get that SVS sub woofer connector which I take from the phone call converts the signal output to a voltage a powered sub can take rather than buying a better sub and without changing the power output to your speakers. I only use it for fill-in. Looking at some other speakers. From experience there's alot I can take off the list. Somewhere around the $2K mark give or take perhaps in a size and design I want. I can wait as well. No rush. I to put this amp on a short list from the reviews and talking to Frank. He seemed pumped about it. Who knows, it could become an American classic, if there is such a thing in audio. Competitor amps run much higher in price in some cases. I still stand behind the Keces E40 as a small room/office/desktop option but it drove my gear well in a LR setting as well. The CA-1 is both different and better in certain regards, and a bit more powerful. And I feel comfortable lifting 20 lbs. Budget audiophiles could look at the Keces. It's half the price and typically less used, but doesn't come up used that often. Made in Taiwan by a brand known for power conditioners when they started. Hegel like many popular brands cost. They sound good but also safe. Boring to some, exquisite to others. It is powerful but overkill for me in spite that it has the connectivity I prefer. I like it but this CA-1 is different and I like it so far too.
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Van Alstine is factory direct. With Hegel, you have a US distributor markup and a 50 point dealer markup. If Van Alstine attempted to sell in Europe at dealers....prices would double. We are lucky in America that we can buy Van Alstine, Odyssey, & Schiit amps at such low prices. I would exhaust those types of options before looking at imported amps sold at dealers. |
@agwca there are a few hubs of audio brain power and manufacturing in the US, tend to be coastal CA, the Boston area, and the twin cities. So I have no doubt it’s a solid amp, being from Minnesota. I made a list of about 6 amps in the 1000-ish range and based on the reviews the AVA jumped out. I didn’t know why Hegel was marked up, but you explained it. On a second thought the phono input makes sense to people who occasionally listen to vinyl and for people like me who occasionally would use a DAC, an optical input would make more sense (Hegel) Looking at this forum and my favorite hifi youtube channels, the price is a bit too high for budget audiophiles and too low for serious spenders. And when I say too high, I don’t mean by much. But you got a good deal on it, one that I would have probably jumped on. I think there is a lack of choices in the small output (<60 Watts), minimalist with high SQ integrated segment under a $1000. I know ~$1000 is not much these days, but for a dad in a family with a lot bills, a college student, a middle class single person with rent, etc. it’ a choice between new tires on the car or trip to grandma, or new laptop for the kid, there is no $1000 lying around. It might not happen until a big break financially. I think Schiit does exactly what I am talking about, lower priced, high quality, modular setup. It’s the design that’s not my style but I assume they are doing great. |
I kind of agree with Gano on the amps looks and connectivity. It looks good in real life but minimalist. I would have preferred a different array of connectivity. Made a modular compartment for Phono stage if anything, keeping it an RCA input. I like the SQ but its being evaluated currently on lower end mid gear, depending on how one sees it. I always felt the Hegel was overkill but on 807Ws it did well, but its an easy speaker to drive. The Keces, Hegel and seemingly the CA-1 never seems lifeless like the typical brands I previously had could. I had a HK 3490 years ago and in the daytime, could sound kind of flat, like dullish but livened up at night time listening when are ears hear differently, that I believe can be explained scientifically. So far, I feel the Ca-1 fits between the Keces and Hegel, closer to the Hegel. The Hegel designed in Norway but built in China, I do not think we saved anything as Hegel charges as much as possible to keep the marketing chain and their business healthy. It's markup. Not going to say it would be double if built in Norway. If that were the case it couldn't compete. The CA-1 to me isn't a giant killer but a good sounding articulate performer. It won't be everyone's preferred choice. If you want a smooth. relaxed presentation look elsewhere. If you want excitement and transparency, comparatively speaking it could be a good choice. Especially if you add a dac and only listen to movies and CDs. Simple and yes, it sounds good. I'm sure it could compete with more expensive gear in certain cases and with certain gear. Don't know how it measures and I just went back and forth with Nemo regarding the Totem Bisons between the reviews and how it measured, trying to figure out how it sounds and whether it could be paired with this amp. That didn't resolve any concerns but I look at measurements to at least come up with some data for expectation. He doesn't. But his gear isn't my gear and his room isn''t my room. Same for ears and preferences. Seemingly, the little Keces may not be powerful enough for Totems and I wanted to find a replacement for the Hegel as its 40lbs...I want something capable but lighter. Some have stated that they had gear costing thousands and when they heard the CA-1 it impressed them. As an amplifier is designed to amplify, why don't they essentially sound the same? Probably due to build and component quality for SNR, distortion, power on demand output, etc., and they do have different flavors. If it does sound better or at least as good as more expensive gear then I am done. Seems like reliability is good and should last for most of my life, what remains. So, 20 years perhaps? Also, I am hesitant to buy really expensive gear as my needs in SPLs wouldn't utilize what i paying for, in amps, speakers, etc. Sure, there are pieces I would like to have and if used at an affordable price I might jump. But in the 1000 to $2000 price category, there's alot of choices out there, new or used. I think this amp competes, for whatever that's worth. I think the CA-1 is a solid, albeit simple performer. Given that, I do wish it were a bit smaller, say a few inches less wide. Other than that and my connectivity preferences, it's good, especially for what I paid. Say a higher end sounding but still (audiophile) "budget" amp which if it ever needs service seems simple enough to have worked on, hopefully. And kind of neat to have a US made Van Alstine in the system.
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I don't feel comfortable stating it is better than something twice the price as that something at twice the price might not live up to its worth itself. I would say, you are getting performance for your price. Sans connectivity and add ons. I guess thinking its holding up to the Hegel from memory says something, but unit I compare it. That was a $3500 integrated back a few years but gave you a good dac at least for CDs and Bluray rates. Perhaps upgrading the fuses could add to the SQ.? I do not know abut the quality of the internals. Seems alot of people are liking this unit but as all things, there has to be system synergy and a sound you want. The seller gave a good enough discount for a unit only a little more than a few months old and I jumped on it. At full retail, well that's not typically my MO. Need to listen to some horns to hear how it does those. I do have my old 807Ws sitting and waiting to be mailed out which were great at showing micro details and textures which could make the evaluation easier but, waiting for a potential buyer to get back to me. It does ramp up my little Dalis and Triangles though, enough to appreciate with good separation.
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I am listening to this on small Opticon 1s, looking at other speakers to figure out if they’ll work well and regardless, wouldn’t know until actually hooked up abd in my room. What I am getting as compared to my Keces E40 on material (and now with no sub) is I think I am hearing more spatial effect say if actors or musicians were recorded in a room that gives that effect. It seems to be more resolving and transparent which my Hegel h160 does but perhaps a bit more spatial, not sure about that yet or tone either until I compare. Is it better than the Keces? It definitely is different sounding and better in at least transparency and resolving the detail. It seems fast too. Little overhang on anything and does’t add anything to low mids or upper bass, or at least the mids seem more ramped up in comparison. In the end an articulate and exciting listen without being tiring at least to me. I am listening for glare when there are sibilants and while there is sibilance, probably appropriate to what’s in the recording and does’t have the sH glare of the Hegel or isn’t really standing out as much. Which is more transparent I haven’t compared yet or even on enough music but it does ramp up the little Opticons. The fact that I like it so far and am not nit picking like I did with the Musical Fidelity M2Si such as bloated, slow bass, grain in the mids and some of the highs, says something to me. Similar power, in that it comes across as having grunt but wish the turn of the dial was slower in power output but it isn’t difficult to dial in like say a NAD. Also at lowest levels, both speakers output equally to what I hear instead of hearing one before I hear the other. As to being more spatial, holographic, the Hegel is regarded by some to sound more flattish but I never thought it was a flat stage. But I am noticing spatial cues when I thought they either were not there or more subdued on the other two amps I have. Unless I really hear something that comes across as holographic sounding and not artificially so, I can’t say how much its doing it but its not a flat wall of sound but imaging seems good. I think most of the stage is at the speaker plane and comes out into the room. Perhaps a little behind. I never understood how some could say they hear things beyond the wall as it’s never been my experience. Behind the speaker plane, yes but not the wall. At least sitting from a distance. Up close in the nearfield I do get that, behind the speakers. But I get that on all 3 amps. I typically don't like speakers that do not have that ability. So far I think this is an amp for a less exciting or more neutral speaker and could be too much for say something like a Monitor Audio Silver 100 I had, always having to adjust volume due to spikes in SPL or not having enough to articulate something in the track. Unless someone likes and can tolerate that assualt on one’s senses. I like hearing the subtle. As to tone, its not like a tube but not colorless but not sure its neutral in that regard. Not as smooth as the Hegel but no grit, just a prominence that makes it an exciting listen. Could be more is coming through at certain frequencies. Still, haven’t listened to enough material to say 100% of what I am stating. The Keces are a more relaxing listen but I never felt it wasn’t engaging. The Hegel adds weight and excitement and so does the CA-1 but not sure yet how close, better or less so than the Hegel until I hook it up and with the same dac, the D70s. The internal dac in the Hegel is less warm than the D70s with a bit better separation perhaps due to the bloom in the lows the D70s. But I think it will be close to the Hegel. I guess that says something. Also, there are alot of amps out there. Some class A is said to sound romantic and some think its boring. This CA-1 is not boring. I thought I read the first 10 watts could be class A but nothing really published in that regard and I would be surprised if it were. It’s a rather Spartan amp, 3 RCA open inputs if you don’t use phono. I really only need a couple so would have liked a pre out for my small sub but its workable. The Hegel gives you more, especially an XLR, 2 pre outs and digital connectivity in a pretty decent dac. I bought it due to Van Alstine’s reputation, hearing mostly great things from users with VA equipment over the years and the hype of this amp. I can see if someone prefers the Set 120 to this if its made to sound more tube-ish but this amp does sound good in its own regard. Not for everyone, what is. There’s alot out there in gear and figure if something wasn’t performing or reliable, it would be stated. As to reviews, I think they have their own preferences and ride a line between building interest and not ticking off the brands themselves. Some I feel are honest, some not or at least I don’t get anything from them. Build quality, well it feels solid. The knobs are the least robust but good enough, nice to have heavy gauge thick steel but they’re fine. Still working this unit out in my head and heart.
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@agwca that's very thorough. The Hegel costs more than twice. So I am not sure you are calling this a great value or not. (By great I mean fantastic in comparison to similar amps. Is it as good as an amp twice the price?) I think the phono input is a mistake as well as the lack of pre out. It looks like a minimalist amp but exactly those two things would make it minimalist and practical for the budget audiophile. The design is also borderline unbearable for me, with a tiny bit more effort it could have been ok to look at (subjective of course)
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thanks @seanheis1 I am out of sync with part time audiophiles, don't get them usually |
@grislybutter I use Van Alstine SET 120 Power amp. Check out part time audiophiles review of it. Re: CA1. I have not heard it. From how folks are describing it, it is not the sound that I chase ;-) |
@gano curious what your questions were? |
Finally hooked it up albeit to small Dali Opticon 1 speakers. I have two other integrateds, a small Keces E40 and a Hegel h160. On the small Dali speakers, (on TV show soundtracks I am familiar with) the Keces may sound a bit fuller sounding on the low mids but more rounded in the mids and treble. It might be the sound in speech sounds different on the CA-1 as I notice more accentuation on details throughout the frequency curve. The CA-1 seems to have a bit more resolution, definitely a bit more details coming though so seemingly more transparent. From what I remember the differences between the Hegel and the Keces, the Hegel is more energetic as is the CA-1 but retains a bit of fullness in the lower mids probably from damping factor. I don't know yet which is more transparent and at what frequencies those frequencies come across as better or preferred. I will compare with the Hegel down the road. The CA-1 is also hooked up to a Topping D70s dac which is more rounded sounding to the one in the Hegel. So some swapping between equipment will have to be done. So far, I get the sense the CA-1 can be described as neutral, perhaps a bit on the cooler side, transparent though not sure if it's more than you get with the better but similarly priced gear. The frequencies are not overly smoothed but sound more natural than not given how TV shows are recorded and processed. Sibilants are there but so far while prominent, may show less glare than the Hegel which is also fairly transparent. I am liking what I hear so far with the CA-1. I did try it on music and its more energetic, exciting than the Keces. I think separation and dynamic reach are good and voice and piano has a liveliness like the Hegel. As I stated, the Keces is more rounded but very musical. The Hegel is livelier, adds attack and weight to make piano strikes sound more lifelike in comparison but both presentations please. I think the CA-1 is somewhere in-between and closer to the performance of the Hegel. Do not know which is better, preferred or how different as of yet or more musical for me to my preferences. Lots of listening has to be done as of yet. I'm going to listen for textures, separation, space and effect when its in the recording, etc. The Keces does space well and so does the CA-1 from what I heard so far, perhaps a bit more in that regard. Voices are different and I am adjusting as I have listened to the Keces quite a bit today. The SPL level I get with the Keces at 12 o clock I get with the CA-1 about 10 o clock position. Its more powerful and suspect more current output too. It has livened up the small Dalis. The Opticon 1 is regarded as bright by some but I hear it as more neutral and I do not like dark, overly warm, less transparent speakers but have a limit towards brightness too. The Keces is regarded as slightly warm, the Hegel slightly cool but I feel neutral and I think the CA-1 is neutral in similar regard to the Hegel, perhaps some will find it slightly cooler. The upper mids may be a bit more accentuated adding to this slight coolness but it seems fairly transparent. There are more micro-details in the CA-1 vs the Keces but I know the Hegel is good at microdetails but don't know how different as its been weeks since my last listen but feel the resolution remains better in the Hegel. I think it plays closer to the Hegel's league or at least something in between my two amps. But depending on music, mood, I could prefer to listen to one or the other. No slouches here. I have listened to other amps which were too gritty, loose bass, too much in the upper mids, vagueness, and so far I feel the CA-1 amp avoids these pitfalls. If anything, and its too early to tell, maybe a bit more low end heft would be nice but I haven't listened to enough well recorded music to say its an issue or really any different than either the other two and its hard to tell on small monitors. I have another set of speakers with more warmth I will try later. So far I am intrigued by the amp. Sounds more right than wrong and I hear wrong right away at least for me. It seems powerful. More than the Keces, Just put on Nick Cave, the album No More Shall We Part and its good. Along the lines of what I expect and somewhere in between my other two amps. More lively compared to the Keces, and still a bit more rounded say on piano strikes versus the Hegel. Seemingly more detail than the Keces, not sure yet with the Hegel but I feel it will be close. I think the Hegel is still a better performer from what I remember, maybe better separation, a bit more palpable in voices but its closer. I can see why some might prefer the tonality of the CA-1 versus the Hegel but the Hegel adds some life to notes but can sometimes seem harsh too, depending. Real like performances can sound harsh as well. Try listening to someone pounding piano keys in a room. Someone stated they had this amp but opted for the class A Musical Fidelity A-1 which is going to present a bit differently. Just a preference and may sound fuller, smoother or preferred in one's room and speakers. My initial feeling is this is a good amp at its price point and perhaps a bit above but I can't say it's the best for the price (so much out there) or a giant killer (there really are none). It does show harmony when its in the music and I am pleased with that. I don't think its as smooth as a class A or tube, but it's a solid performer from what I am hearing. I wouldn't pair it with a bright speaker but neutral and slightly warm would work fine. It's a comparatively sparse amp with only 4 inputs, one being for turntables. I would have like one of the RCA jacks to have been a pre out for more easily adding a sub. If it had a true balanced XLR or at least XLR inputs to utilize on many dacs, it would have been a plus too. Still, it's adequate for my needs. Simple, easy and sounds good. Rides a balance between still being smooth, clarity and liveliness to be listenable for extended periods. For an easier listen if desired, I have the Keces but I feel I could listen for extended sessions without issue. Not relaxing, more engaging. Heck all 3 are good at getting one to foot tap. This rant is more me working out what am hearing. I bought this used where the seller reduced his price substantially and not being but a few months old, I jumped on it. Otherwise, someone else would be writing this and without the verbosity I have. Steve G seemed to indicate he preferred the Set 120 which may have been designed to sound more like a single ended amp? Perhaps the Set 120 was a bit warmer, been years since he heard so I wouldn't take it was better as the CA-1 is a solid performer that could work with many speakers and source equipment. Definitely has clarity, with sufficient resolution and detail. As for musicality, depends on what you are after I suppose. I am enjoying it so far. Is it worth the full price?...only you can decide that. I think so but I was patient and got lucky which is more my style anyhow. Missed a few too. There's alot of integrated out there right now. Also looked at Iota SA40, among a few others but wanted this based on Van Alstine's long reputation for sound quality, reliability and just the right amount of quirkiness to not be a run of the mill brand and still considered compact. The Hegel is a beast. Overkill for me right now too. Probably look to list it. Now...what to do about small speaker upgrading?
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@agwca it's a business, they don't owe me anything. If they want to sell, they post an email address that someone checks at least once every other day. In one week, I got zero response to 3 emails. I know that small businesses are not full of IT gurus, and they are busy with so many things, and a move can be stressful although reading emails shouldn't be a challenge in 2024. I would love to hear what you think, this amp was on the top of my list. The lack of preamp is somewhat annoying, and the design is as minimalist as they come, but sound quality above all..... |
@gano true. i know how frustrating it can be when you're in that position, anxious and ready to pull the trigger. again, good luck! |
thanks @shtinkydog! It could have been many reasons why my email was ignored, went to junk, busy week, moving, maybe I will circle back. |
@gano understandably, that's very discouraging. that being said, i got the complete flip side of what you got. when i was looking at replacing my preamp, frank himself was the only one out of 3 manufacturers that got back to me. i bought the preamp from him. odyssey, and i forget who else, never bothered to reply. i hope it works out for you. |
About to find out myself. Picked one up but hadn't the time to install. Only using on small speakers, easy to drive speakers and wonder how it would do on something needing more current. Looking at other small but next step up speakers, not an easy task with size constraints. Audio Note AN-K SPe...nice! |
I've had the CA1 for a couple of months and believe it is a great all-around performer for its price. I found it to be sensitive to speaker type, impedance, etc. I is a nice balance between my 5 watt class A tube and Vera Audio P150/600 Purfi-based class D amps. Transparent with reasonable sound stage and power. I have not tried the phono stage. I currently listen to it via Audio Note AN-K SPe speakers. |
I get this today and will put it in my system the next day or 2. If anything, I kind of wish it had pre outs. I could live with two rca inputs for source plus a pre out would make hooking up a sub for fill'in simpler. Ideally, it would have a truly balanced XLR, an RCA pre out or perhaps a subout with adjustable cutoff as subs are popular today versus when VA first started. The XLR would add to the cost though. Still, that be my personal design desires. I could live without a phono stage myself but alot of people are into vinyl. As long as the SQ is there, mission accomplished.
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to newtozu: In case my message failed, and re: the Musical Fidelity A1... I can appreciate preferences. Looked at that one too and may revisit someday. I had a M2si which I tried and couldn't stand. Loose bass, grainy upper mids, not smooth at all and lacked depth. Probably OK for some Rock but not for alot of what I listened to. Prefer smooth, musical but still transparent. Will try the CA-1. For the prices, not expecting a $10K+ experience but don't need to at my listening levels. Also looked at similarly priced tube gear, the new Galion amp but then I'd need a suitable pre, pehaps a couple of others such as the Iota VX40. The CA-1 seemed to stand out and I picked up at a used price I couldn't say no too. See what happens.
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Sorry. Meant @newtozu |
Interested in how the amp performs and to hear it keeps up with more expensive gear is positive even if there's no measurements, info on system matching, room, etc. My goal is to achieve maximum value in smaller gear, coming from Hegel amps which played very well and going down to a small class ab Keces E40 while it doesn''t quite have both the smoothness and liveliness of my Hegel, its close enough with the speakers I use and conditions I listen to music at. The Hegel just makes for example music sound a bit livelier, more energetic without hash or shrillness giving piano notes and such a bit more life, etc., and differences would be even more noticeable on higher end speakers particularly if they require alot of power. The Keces is a tad warmer and more rounded on the top end but still resolving and transparent enough. But I don't want heavy, bulky gear anymore and something smaller, lighter but that still plays well can be just right. I have the Keces driving a pair of Dali Opticon 1s with a sub and while not hi end, is a really nice experience at the SPLs I listen at. If I were to jump up, I have considered a few more expensive but small stand mounts and the one which piques my interest is the Closer Ogy. A quality 50 watt is more than enough power and if well designed for SQ, would be end game for me. So I will continue to watch others' experiences with the CA-1. Probably would not even need a sub in that case given its a transmission line speaker. Don't want to get into tube gear and not keen on class D at the moment. It's great that there's a reasonably priced simple integrated that could fit the bill. Its not the only one but alot of others I've considered are significantly more. If found used, sure they would still be priced at what the CA-1 costs new. Just need to decide if I want to make the jump. Liking the budget gear I have now but, tempted to jump up.
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I've had the CA-1 for two weeks. It is simply a revelation. I've spent over 50k on gear the last few years. I won't get into all the amps I've had, but powering my Zu Soul 6s, I think I've come the closest to whatever I believe is absolute sound with the CA-1. I ABd it in a system with the $6600 Stereophile class A rated Moonriver 404 reference, and the Moonriver's owner immediately agreed the $1599 CA-1 was superior in all aspects. This thing scales into far more expensive systems. It is end-game for $1599. Put your Schiit down and place an order. |