Being "thrifty" is maybe part of the reason they can afford to pay market prices but don't.
So I guess you condone this practice? |
Bottom feeders love to do that Dude! |
@Mapman
With all due respect, I don't think how much money you have should determine how much you pay for a particular piece of equipment. I think it's inherently in the best interest of the buyer to pay the least, and the seller to get the most. If you buy a car/food/house/etc, they don't ask for your income and price the item accordingly. I don't think you can get mad at somebody for not paying more than what everybody else pays, just because they have money. IMHO. |
Invenio78...cars? Not priced accordingly to income or credit? The hell they aren't. Dealerships will work the price down as far as they can for a person with poor credit rather than someone willing to finance (to get a lower cost) then pay the loan off after the first payment, or pay cash like I always did. I had more than one salesman expect me to wait so that they could get the same car for a person with a history of late payments, and even admit to me that he'd get a better price than me just so they'd get a sale. I waited 5 minutes and walked off the lot and had 15 messages when I got home. I went elseware to buy the Cobra Mustang. Lowballers and bottom feeders will ask for anything they think they can get for free, just like a bum that is not willing to work. Doctors included. |
I totally agree with Invenio78. |
Polk432, Invenio78 DIDN'T mention CREDIT. Why are you puuting words in his mouth? Poorer credit=higher risk so should pay more and the problem is??
There was a study that people with higher income tend to be more frugal, use coupons ... maybe reason they make and have more $$.
Well said Invenio78! |
@Polk432
Once again, I humbly disagree. The dealer at the dealership doesn't care how much money you have, they only care how much money they can get out of you (short term or long term). Audio equipment is almost never purchased on loans or financing so it's a difficult comparison. If you walk into a dealership and say I am willing to pay $20k for that car, not one penny more and walk out leaving your phone number, the seller will not care whether your a millionaire or have exactly $20k to your name (presuming the buyer is not willing to go higher). If the sale is worth it for the seller, he'll sell to either person. If he won't make money off the deal, then he won't sell. My other examples of food, housing, and goods is also similar. I think all buyers (regardless of income) should be allowed to try and get something for the least amount possible. To say, "you can't bargain" because you have the money is somewhat unusual (especially when the seller specifically lists the item as to take lower offers). I think almost every reader of this forum has at least $1000 in the bank. Does that mean they can't (shouldn't) try to bargain down an item that is listed at $500 with a "make an offer" button? If you don't want to take offers below a certain amount, then just start the listing at that price without taking lower offers.
Once again, I respect all opinions that may be contrary to mine. |
Polk432,
I do not follow your logic. The car dealer will make the sale to the customer that results in the greatest revenue to him/her, and does not care the income or net worth of the buyer.
Not clear on the rant about the doctor, but honestly, hi-end audio gear is pretty darn non-essential. Nobody is "owed" some arbitrary amount for this stuff. And the high-disposable-income-guy certainly has no obligation to overpay for these luxury items. |
I'm amazed at what some people think 10 year old CDP's (with 10yo transports) are worth. Meridian 508.24's for $1300? Laughable. I bought one (used) here 6 years ago for $1100 (sold it a week later for the same price, BTW)
But hey, buyer beware. Remember the little jar of rocks that you put on a table in your listening room and "was a game changer!" and Audiogon ran their ads! I lost a lot of respect for admin here after that point .....
Laughable. |
It's an old adage that the way the rich stay rich is to spend as little as they can thereby keeping most of their money. Just human nature to see how little a person can pay for something. Not condoneing lowball offers, thats just the way it is. |
The car dealership has to lower the price for people with slow or bad credit in order to get the person approved for the loan, so that person was offered a lower price than I was offered in order for the dealership to make the sale. I went elseware to make my purchase. Dealerships make money selling money, not cars. They told me this although I already knew that. Nothing wrong in trying to bargin. I've never and will never pay retail for anything. I'll just walk away. Most people won't though. I'm just against lowballers thinking they can get whatever they want for next to nothing. The only reason I've ever financed a car was to get a lower sales price. As soon as I get the first statement I pay the loan off. If I can't, I'll just go without. |
Knghifi, I thought I saw car mentioned somewhere. It doesn't take a study to know that a lot of the rich are that way due to sacrifce. The poor made as much money but lived beyond their means. Poor credit should mean more for the borrower to pay back, but in my case the guy with bad credit was getting a lower final purchase price than me. I used to buy new Mustangs every 2 years. The dealerships do whatever they can to get a sale, but should not give someone else not as worthy a better deal just because they think I'm a lay down. They found out when I went elseware. I got lots of better offers then, but it was too late. The 3rd week of January is a very good time to look for a new car because it is the slowest (or one of) month for car sales. |
Polk432, It doesn't take a study to know that a lot of the rich are that way due to sacrifce. The poor made as much money but lived beyond their means. The study was about families with higher incomes and not the same but one save while the other live beyond their means. I have several friends that own auto dealerships and they tell me there are basically 3 ways for them to make money on a sale. 1. sell for higher than cost 2. financing 3. options. Ideally is to make money on all 3 but one will work. I think if the person with poor credit gets a lower purchasing price, they probably paid for it in financing. If you have a better credit, they will have to make a profit on you through higher price or some options. The 3rd week of January is a very good time to look for a new car because it is the slowest (or one of) month for car sales. I heard usually end of the month. The best time is when they are close to a bonus. One of my friend was at the dealership when they needed 2 more sales to reach 25 for a bonus. He was 24 and got it at cost. The only reason I've ever financed a car was to get a lower sales price. As soon as I get the first statement I pay the loan off. If I can't, I'll just go without. The problem is the loan is amortized so you paid a big chunk of interest in the 1st payment. I found out the hard way many many years ago when I bought a Mustang 5.0 and got it at cost with no options but I had to get financing in order to complete the deal. Paid off after 1 payment and it was all interest so a better deal was to buy some extended warranty option instead. I love car shopping and pay cash. I do my homework and have a FAIR price I'm willing to pay. I tell the salesman, it doesn't matter how many times you talk to your manager, this is my best price and most of the time, it works. |
3 out of the 4 cars I bought were for cash. The loan companies hate people that don't finance or pay off early. I now have a mint condition SLK 230 Benz 2001 with 6,375. originals on it. It should last me the rest of my life and gets 22cty 32-33 hwy. Like I said most dealerships make money selling money and the last week or end of month is best because the salesmen have quotas to meet in order to receive a bonus. The person with poor credit will make up for it with a higher interest rate, but should not get a better bottom line price than someone that is responsible. |
The person with poor credit will make up for it with a higher interest rate, but should not get a better bottom line price than someone that is responsible. One simple explanation is the poor credit customer is a SUPERIOR negotiator. The dealer does't care who got a better deal but they made PROFITS on both deals. When you include financing in a transaction, one needs to compare the total including all the accrued interest and not just the sale prices. |
The person with poor credit will make up for it with a higher interest rate, but should not get a better bottom line price than someone that is responsible. I have 2 rusted Yugos with no engine that I want to dump. One sold for $50 and the other for $1000000. Should I lose any sleep which buyer got a better deal? Caveat Emptor and the best consumer is the educated consumer! |
I can get and did get a better deal on the last Mustang GT I bought but I went elseware to get it and got the better price since I took cash with me. 2007. I sold it almost 3 years later while it was still certified and sold it outright for 18K, invested half of it into my stereo and the other half in gold. Drove my minivan for a while then dumped the gold and added the money to my 18k and ended up with no money into the Mustang. I am an educated consumer @ 58 and retired when I was 49, so there isn't much I have to beware of (except the sound of solid state) Now I have a Benz Komperssor with 6,380 miles on it that will last me the rest of my life. 4 Mustangs in 8 years was enough for me, but it was at least a little fun. |
Sellers are also being ridiculous. I have seen a few amplifiers that didn't sell. When they were re-listed, the asking price was higher rather than lower than the original. A rational person would then offer a percent off the ORIGINAL asking price.
Do these sellers think we are stupid and don't do our homework??? Even with an expired listing, you can find the original by doing a google search. |
To Crwindy's post
I've seen sellers do the same thing. They will re-list an item higher than before. My theory is they are trying to catch people who don't visit the site frequently. I remember a seller selling a preamp starting at $600 then it went to as low as $250 when the listing was able to expire. Then after it ended a new listing started $700.
To me there is some gamesmanship now with buying and selling here. There are sellers that want as much money they can get and there are some buyers who want a deal or pay as little as possible. I'm sure there is some wiggle room with both parties but the buyer is going to try and see what they can get away with first. It's part of the game. Heaven forbid someone pay fair market value.
I haven't sold here in awhile but before when I listed at what I thought was fair MV from researching I still got some headscratching offers.
For me. If I see if something I like I'll put in an offer based on how much I want or am able to pay. If the seller doesn't like my offer then they can decline it. |
"Sellers are also being ridiculous. I have seen a few amplifiers that didn't sell. When they were re-listed, the asking price was higher rather than lower than the original"
Seems to me this is common practice in a retail stores. The price goes up after the sale is over.
The seller can do whatever he wants. The item belongs to him. He wasn't put here just to satisfy low ballers. |
With the internet there is an aspect of anonymity. It is similar to the the driver that cuts you off then gives you a dirty look and a hand gesture, the finger. The same person would not do that in line at a grocery store.
Years ago before the internet there was a paper called the Want Ad Press.
Buyers would contact sellers on the phone and make an appointment at sellers home. There are also buyers that are not happy unless they haggle the price down even if it is very reasonable to begin with.
A buyer came with his son to by a hard to find item which his son really wanted.
Dad tried to talk me way down for a half hour on an already great deal.
It became insulting. I finally said that it was no longer for sale. He then agreed to my original asking price, where I explained that I had decided to keep it. (I just didn't want to sell to him at that point) He then began arguing that I HAD to sell it since It had been advertised.
I politely asked him to leave, which he refused. I gave an option of physically throwing him out or having the Police escort him out. He called back after he got home to again offer to buy at my original asking price.
I think he wanted to teach his Son how to haggle. That lesson backfired. |
"The seller can do whatever he wants. The item belongs to him. He wasn't put here just to satisfy low ballers."
Same goes for the buyer.
Question for the people that are insulted by "low ball" offers: What is a "low ball" offer to you? less 10%, 20%, 30%?
When I get a low offer it's not inulting to me and I don't get defensive. I just say no. It's easy. I am not sure why a low offer is insulting or offensive to some of you. |
Orelayer,
"Same goes for the buyer"
Like I said, the seller owns the item. It might be a buyers market right now, but the seller is still in command. I think a lot of buyers think all sellers are in some financial trouble and need to sell the item. Not so. Read the post above yours. |
