Anyone bought a Gryphon Diablo 333?

Heard both the 333 and 300 side by side today, my impressions mirror yours @kairosman I did not audition the Essence combo.

The 333 was better, but not much, more different than better for my tastes. And definitely not better enough at DOUBLE the price. High-end hifi right now is overvalued. Kinda like the S&P 500.

The Essence stack was clearly better, but again more different than better. The 300 is warmer than either the 333 or the Essence stack, which suits my system better.

Just my 2 cents, your mileage may differ.

@kairosman What were your impressions, was the 333 better than your D300?

What were your impressions of the 333? Also, would you mind sharing the contact info for your dealer with the used 300 for sale?

Going to audition the 333 and Essence stack at my dealer this week.

As an aside, I have a 300 I paid $18K for new 2 years ago, saw a 300 used for $11K btw, wow 👌 anyone just starting out in the deep end of the hifi world would be hard pressed to get something as good for $11K.

Late to the party, but FYI @nyev I wound up getting another Makua for my Essence system as an upgrade to the Essence preamp. (I now have two Makuas, the other one with internal DAC in my second home.) The system sounded very good with the Essence pre but the Makua is more resolving and dimensional - even my non-audiophile wife called it “more 3D.” I also compared my Tambaqui + Makua to the Makua with internal DAC and it’s basically the same save the influence of the interconnects and power cord on the Tambaqui - in my system I had a slight preference for the slightly rounder, fuller sound of the Tambaqui with Furutech cords, but the internal DAC had a more, well, direct and incisive sound with slightly better resolution. At some point I need to find time to get through my backlog of reviews and write all this up…

my god yes

As in the essence is better than the 333?

Heard the 333 with a Magico/DCS rig and it was totally blown away when compared to the Essence pre/amp. I could not believe the difference, not even close. The essence amp is insanely underrated. 

Any updated impressions on this amp?

@nyev Thank you for sharing that. I'm sure it's difficult to go further if your power was fluctuating. I appreciate it. And yes, I know you have ultimately felt direct to the wall with the amp is the way to go. It sound like in most cases that is true, especially when a dedicated line is in place.

@62truck , I was curious about the Puritan as there was one in the system when I was auditioning my Audiovector R6’s. And a friend was recommending it as well. So that was it really.  

I think both the Torus and Puritan are great, however I personally prioritized the bigger and freer midrange of the Puritan over the higher resolution and refinement of the Torus.  The Torus may be more focused and “pinpointed” with imaging.  It’s tough for me to go to greater details, because during my testing, the quality of my AC power was also fluctuating.  So while I definitely noted differences, the main difference that I could confidently attribute to each product is the ones that I noted.  Also, just to clarify I do prefer my amp connected directly to the wall (dedicated circuit).

 

@nyev That is great to hear your system is providing you so much sonic enjoyment! That is interesting to learn about your experiences with the isolation products under both components and the speakers. When I added Magico pods to my speakers they improved in clarity and cohesion. I should look into the Townshe d platform for my Gryphon. Although the 333 does have spikes (with discs) pre-installed by default. I have an HRS platform but it is currently configured for a lower weight so I would need to have it re-calibrated by HRS or dealer.

That is interesting to hear about the Puritan. Other than the Torus, that is the power product I have been interested in learning more about. I’ve definitely seen people talking about plugging bigger amps into the RM but I’m happy to hear you like the Essence into the Puritan, too. It sounds like the mids are better with the Puritan but resolution is better with the RM. Are there any other details you can think of? Many thanks. May I ask what prompted you to trade the RM for the Puritan?

Hi @62truck, great to hear from you and congrats on the A5’s! I am enjoying my Mola Mola Makua and Gryphon Essence immensely as well.  I ended up moving to a Puritan PSM-156 instead of the Torus.  They both were quite good and the Torus may have provided a hair more resolution but I found the Puritan just a hair more free-flowing with bigger and bolder mids. I do feel like there are some benefits hooking the amp up to either device. But ultimately I prefer it just slightly more when the amp is connected directly to its own dedicated 20A AC circuit. Just sounds a bit more natural to me.

The change that really blew me away is when I got a Townshend platform under my Gryphon amplifier.  Everything opened up, the soundstages became bigger and grander, and imaging improved.  I’ve used IsoAcoustics and Herbie’s products in the past but this goes way further, and the best part is it doesn’t impart a tonal signature of its own like other vibration control products do.

I have a second platform on the way for the Makua preamp and I will be purchasing others as well.

Finally, one other tweak - I had my Audiovector R6 Arrete’s on their spikes sitting in Herbie’s spike decoupling gliders and this worked quite well.  However I tried putting 1.5” thick granite pedestals under each speaker and this really improved things further. Under the granite I put 5 Herbie’s fat dots to interface the granite with the hardwood floor.  Where there were slight levelling issues I stuffed a cut up sheet of paper under the foot and that seemed to work well.  In the end I have better clarity, more nuanced detail in the upper registers, and like with the  Townshends, a bit bigger soundstage and better imaging.  
 

Things are sounding fantastic now!

@nyev 

How goes everything these days? I’m intrigued to hear what your latest thoughts and experiences are. 
 

Also, have you tried hooking your Essence up to your Torus RM 20? I have been reading up on that piece and see lots of people actually get positive results with not just their low-current gear, but also amplifiers. I know you had originally liked the 300 on the RM 20 but after your recent gear changes, went back to the wall for your 300 (prior to bringing in the Essence).

 

Thanks in advance!

 

I still am loving the 333. I moved up to A5’s, and added Tyr 2 speaker cables. Loving everything so far. 

@kennyc yes the Mola Mola gear all looks to be top notch.  I was only willing to take a gamble on the preamp based on my experiences having owned the standalone Tambaqui which has been fantastic, feeding my Diablo 300 as a standalone DAC and without it using its digital volume control.  The reviews led me to believe the sound signature (or lack thereof) to be the same with the preamp.

The Mola class D amplifiers look very interesting but have not had the opportunity to hear.  These don’t seem to be anywhere as popular as the Tambaqui, likely due to people’s preconceived notions around Class D, however, from the reviews which I have no reason to doubt (as they all have similar comments), it seems Mola’s amps may be quite special.

The build quality and software is also truly unique in terms of how well done it is, and the quality of life type of convenience and flexibility features the software offers is just fantastic.  Given how bare bones the front face of the unit is (which I love), it’s unexpected to see how fully fleshed out the configurability options are from the app.  You can tell they really cared about this in the design and that their products are the result of a labour of love.

Same with the Gryphon, but IMO I think Mola has a slight lead on build and physical design (I have never been a fan of Gryphon’s use of acrylic on their front faces), and also with how truly flexible their products are through the very slick app.

 

 

@ricky64 , not sure if you’ve read the same, but I’ve read quite a few articles stating why DAC’s with digital volume controls going direct to amplifiers will lack dynamics, depth, and body, while being “edgy”.  Christiaan from HiFi Advice has an article on this topic (a reviewer I respect quite a bit), as do others.  Apparently has to do with software manipulation of the source signal prior to converting to analog, when a digital volume control is used.
 

 

@nyev , glad to hear the pre is working so well for you. Not sure the exact science of it, but the MMT directly into the Essence amp suffers greatly compared to having a pre amp in the chain. 

@nyev 

I’ve only heard of Mola Mola TAMBAQUI DAC until your post about the Makua preamp, so I researched both the Makua preamp and the KALUGA MONO POWER AMPLIFIER.  The Makua reviews were impressive and their optional DAC and phono are surprisingly very high sonic quality.  The Kalua was also a surprise- as massive but controlled feedback yields an “effortless” sound in which I’m after.  Last time I heard “effortless” was when I heard Gryphon Commander + APEX at an audio show, but it’s way past my budget.  Thanks for sharing.  

@62truck , I received the reterminated Dragon back and installed it last night, and my system performance went down - there was a loss in clarity and dynamics vs the stock cable.  I replaced the stock cable to be sure, and noticed that the bass was a touch cleaner on the Dragon but the top end was clearer, more present and dynamic with the stock cord!

 

It must be that that both ends which are new need to be burned in, or simply that the cable needs to resettle after being moved around and likely having the DBS system disrupted.  I’ve noticed that all of my new AQ power cords have not sounded good for the first 20 or so days of on-time, so maybe it’ll take some time again.  Not good that the stock cable sounds better (aside from the bass) at this time but hey at least it’s proof that power cords make a difference, lol.

 

@nyev I am glad to hear your new Essence and Makua are treating you so well! I enjoyed reading your write-up thus far and look forward to hearing more as they continue to burn-in and as your re-terminated Dragon gets put back into your system.

@ricky64 , my Makua arrived, and yes the holographic presentation is truly great. All issues addressed and there are major improvements on every performance dimension I can think of over the Tambaqui feeding the Essence directly. I really wasn’t expecting this degree of improvement. And this was right from the first cold power-up of the Makua on Saturday night. It’s early days but I really don’t feel the need to look at other preamps now. Yes, it’s very transparent but as I mentioned before my speakers are warmer and more relaxed, so the sound is very, very easy to listen to for extended periods. The sound is much more dynamic and incisive, but is also very full-bodied, and the images within the soundstage are specifically placed yet fully fleshed out into a natural presentation. And the bass is fantastic too - very energetic, defined and palpable.

I expect the sound and my perceptions to change over the next 4 weeks or so, but right now I feel like I’m getting way more performance than I anticipated. And that performance is in service to the music and not for the sake of performance which is fantastic. I’m not typically one to convince myself that I like something simply because I bought it. More times than not I am more like “ah crap, this wasn’t right….”, even to a fault. But not this time, at least at this point. The gamble seems to have paid off.  In musical enjoyment that is; most certainly not financially!

@roccl007 thank you for relaying your account of the Diablo 333 and I suspect the reviews won’t come until Gryphon sends units to reviewers and they have had at least a few weeks or preferably longer to evaluate. I’ve heard a few reviewers say they currently have 333’s on the way to them (Terry at Pursuit of Perfect System is one) so I expect reviews to come within the next couple of months.  

IMO I wouldn’t be too alarmed about Gryphon’s mention of shutdown during overheating, this is likely simply standard safety and self-protection management that is good to see in a well designed product.
 

To add a little substance to this forum here are some comments and reflections about GRYPHON DIABLO 333. I finally had the opportunity to meet the beast on Friday, March 22, 2024 at the Montreal audio show.

 

Thanks for the follow up. My experience with the Essence is that the 3D soundstage/depth was very impressive. So, I don't think the amp itself is the limiting factor here. Component interactions are complex and fascinating!

Oh, one thing, I definitely notice quite a significant improvement after warming it up in high bias mode for quite a while.  Not quite sure of the actual time yet but it’s over an hour for sure, at least by my ears.  In the first hour and for some time after, even after switching from being warmed up in low bias, the image isn’t quite settled and I don’t get the full resolution in the high frequencies.  But after it gets there, wow.  I knew this going in so not a surprise.  The Diablo 300 definitely warms up faster but it’s not the quoted 45min.  But as stated above, it’s not like it doesn’t sound good when first powered up.  It just gets quite a bit better.

@62truck, @ricky64, I received the Essence in Tuesday and have been running it in continuously (despite Gryphon’s manual indicating it is fully run in in the factory).

As absolutely fantastic as the Diablo 300 is, I do think the Essence is a step up in all respects, as it should be. Aside from watts of course. This is even with my Tambaqui feeding the Essence directly.

Unexpectedly given what others have written about the Essence having less bass than the Diablo, while this is true to a much smaller degree than I anticipated, the bass from the Essence has a tone to it that seems more alive or something. Not sure how to describe, but it’s very satisfying. And the midrange and higher frequencies are a touch more laid back and a touch bigger. Very nice, and easy to listen to - not that the Diablo isn’t. In Class A mode the sound is more resolute, fuller and more present, yet with transparency and separation maintained. Timing is very, very good with very satisfying snappy impact too.

The only flaw I perceive that I expect will be resolved with the Makua is that I am getting far less soundstage depth as compared with the Diablo 300. Due to using my Tambaqui’s digital volume control I suspect. But part of this is attributable to the fact that I’m using the generic power cord on the Essence. My Audioquest Dragon cord is on its way back to me from AQ after being converted to the 20A C19 connector that the Essence requires.

Even with the temporary loss in soundstage depth I’d easily pick this current setup over the Diablo - as great as the Diablo is. I plan to do some back and forth comparisons between the two tomorrow. Tonight I’m just chilling out listening with the Essence currently listening to Kind of Blue, which I thought of playing after seeing another recent thread with the title of this classic. So good. And a full, rich, warm and laid back but also detailed and lively sound - not what I was expecting with the Tambaqui going direct into the amp.

 

 

 

 

@62truck , there are two buttons under the front of the Essence amp, one that controls the bias level and one that controls the lights. On some photos of the Essence you can see two blue lights shining below the amp. These lights signal where the buttons are. If you have the Gryphon pre, I believe you can change the bias on the remote, but I won’t have that option, unless I program a third party remote I guess. The other thing only available with the Gryphon pre is the “green bias” mode, but from the description I don’t think I’d ever use that (basically low bias up to a programmable volume level and high bias after if i understand it correctly).

Still three weeks or so before delivery for me I think.

Glad you are enjoying your 333!!!  

 

 

@ricky64 How easy (or difficult) is it to change the bias level if you don't have a Gryphon preamp? Is there a switch on the amp?...I'm always wondered that.

 

@nyev I am excited to hear your thoughts once the Essence and Makua arrive and get setup. I have my fingers crossed it gives you the sound you want!

 

This past weekend, I was able to move (with the help of a visiting friend) my 333 from its temporary spot to its place on the rack. While this was always the goal, the speaker placement is now compromised with the now-too-short speaker cables. I'm hoping to bring in new cables shortly, however.

For those interested, the 333 has been burning in very nicely. I seem to have a hard time turning it off at the end of each session....."just one more song" :D

This has never bothered me that much. It does sound better after warmup, but it still sounds good when switched on You also just have the option of listening (or leaving it) in Class AB if you wish. I think "Many Hours" is a bit of an exaggeration.

One advantage that the Diablo 333 (and my current Diablo 300 for that matter) has over the Essence is that I’ve read that the warmup time for the Essence in Class A mode is rather long.  Many hours.  However Gryphon has said that it takes only 30min to warm up after it’s already been warmed up (presumably for hours) in AB mode.  I’m okay with this.

@ricky64 , what has your experience been with respect to warmup time with your Essence in a class A mode?

You have a really nice system. Given you made the move to warmer speakers, I think the makua may do the trick. I suspect it will open the soundstage and increase bass and dynamics. The Essence while neutral, definitely is not analytical sounding. So I would be optimistic about your choices!

@ricky64 , this may be a flawed approach but currently I’m doing all I can to keep the DAC inside the analog preamp. This is because I have all Audioquest Dragon power cords and one very pricey Dragon interconnect. At this point, I am all Dragoned out and really want to avoid more massive cost that unfortunately has been worth it, at least to me.

My Audiovectors are quite easy to drive at 91.5dB and they have three bass drivers (one 6.5” driver on the front baffle, one 6.5” downward facing driver and a second 8” downward facing driver).

So I’m really hoping that the Makua will do the trick with adequate body and heft, but we’ll see.

Unfortunately I’ll only have a stock cable with the Essence amp for about a month while my Audioquest Dragon cord is being converted to a 20A C19 connector at Audioquest.

 

 

 

Hi,

I've looked at this, but struggled with the asking price. I did get a discount on the Accuphase. I think you could probably get an amazing pre, keep the MMT, and have quite a bit left over compared to the 3100. 

@ricky64 , in your preamp journey, did you ever try the T+A SDV 3100 HV?  It’s the same price as your Accuphase I think, and seems interesting as the embedded DAC in theory should be at the Tambaqui level or even better. And the preamp is analog.  
 

 

 

 

@ricky64 , thank you, and congrats on finding the right components to make your system click!  I’ve heard others also say how the Essence amp can be that chameleon that takes on the character of other components.  You saying that just now makes me realize that if the Makua doesn’t work out, another path aside from the Diablo 333 is a different preamp.  I’d say my speakers with current speakers in the current system have a bit too much image density actually, with them being a touch too full bodied. Not sure if this is what you meant by image density but  thanks again!

By the way I’ve tried the MU1, but currently have the Innuos Zenith Mk3 and PhoenixUSB reclocker.

 

 

@Nyev; Wow, yes, we were on parallel paths. My speakers are Rockport Atria ii's. I was always puzzled, as they should have plenty of bass. I even added a sub to my system, which now that I have my pre, is sitting turned off. 

I listened to several pre's in the system. I had listened to the Makua in the system a couple of years ago, and it didn't add the image density I was looking for. That being said, I was have issues with a Roon nuc streamer at that time, which I replaced with a Grimm Mu1, so the system is  different since I listened to the Makua. I wound up getting an Accuphase C3900. With the Essence I get a big soundstage, very punchy bass, rich textural detail, and still have some airiness (I had an Accuphase integrated years ago that was a bit too warm and rolled off. The C3900 adds a touch of warmth without a lot of consequences, to my ear).  I think the Makua might work. I did note that on some other forums, people had success adding a tube pre to the Essence. I listened to a top tube pre, and preferred the Accuphase. Please keep me posted on your results, I would be very interested. One thing I can say for sure...the Essence is a winner. It is a bit of a chameleon, and can be warm, dynamic, and punchy, or transparent and airy dependent on what it is fed. Depending on speakers and room, I think it can be end game.

@ricky64 another thing, in case you’ve heard the Makua/Tambaqui combo with the Essence and found it to be too lean for your speakers or worse, no need to hold back and be polite - I’m not the sort to think just because I bought something that it’s going to be great!  I’d rather be informed by someone with experience:)

@ricky64 I’ve ALMOST followed your path, just recently. I too have a Tambaqui. And with my new Audiovector R6 Arrete speakers, I actually now feel that the Diablo 300 has a touch too much bass and that touch of darkness - the same qualities that I felt really complemented my last speakers (B&W 803 D2). Compared to the B&W’s my Audiovectors are more warm and relaxed sounding, but detailed with a lot of bass. The upper mids and treble are not accentuated like they were with the B&W’s which had far less bass.

So with this change, I am looking for a touch more neutrality than I have now, and not the Diablo sound anymore (it’s not as extreme as I’m making it sound and in fact it pairs with many modern speakers extremely well). A contact told me the Gryphon distributor told him that the 333 still has that Diablo 300 darkness but is now a bit closer to neutral like the Apex and Essence.

With that info and with my new warmer sounding speakers, I have an Essence stereo amp on the way. And since I like my Tambaqui but wanted the advantage of an analog preamp without adding another box, I have a Makua on the way with a Tambaqui inside it.

It’s a gamble as I now will have three very neutral components across the Essence amp, Makua, and embedded Tambaqui. But I’m hoping this will be a good match for my slightly warm and full-bodied Audiovector speakers (at least in comparison to the B&W’s). I know for sure this combo will not be bright sounding as the Makua and Tambaqui have that hint of liquid smoothness while being neutral and detailed, but I also know this combo would not have worked AT ALL with the B&W’s!

Despite the high cost, I am okay if it doesn’t work out - I would likely sell and “fall back” to a Diablo 333. But I’m hopeful everything will work out!

Interesting comment about Gryphon Pre’s. Any reference on this comments or is this more a word of mouth thing? I hadn’t heard this before.

Also @ricky64 , which speakers and preamp do you have?

 

 

 

@roccl007 , I think I know what you mean by the slightly syrupy sound, related to the Diablo 300.  Not a negative on its own but I could seem how this could be compounded by other components with a similar effect.

Best of luck with the Diablo 333 and my guess is it will be to your liking.  I base this on a forum post that details the sound quite a bit.  The post is on a forum with the letter p, also s, and it also it has the word audio in it.  Sorry this forum won’t let me say it.  It’s in the thread “your latest upgrade part 2”.

The poster said the midrange is warmer, easier to listen to and cleaner sounding vs the 300, and says the upgrade is well worth it (no surprise!).

 

I will be interested in following this. I’ve owned an Essence Stereo for several years, and was using a Tambaqui directly into it. I was considering getting an Antileon as the sound I was getting was overly transparent. Pretty, precise, nice depth, but weak bass, dynamics, and lacking tonal density to really feel convincing. Turns out, I just needed a pre amp. In gathering data, I noted that many in the industry feel that Gryphon amps are at the top of the heap, but the pres are not held is high esteem. Also, many feel that a tube amp is desirable with the Essence. I wound up buying a very expensive solid state pre (that has just a touch of warmth) and have the sound quality I desire. The Essence amp is pretty amazing, and is really influenced by the component feeding it. I do wonder though if a 333 would have gotten me there at a lower cost. It will bet interesting as the reviews come in on how people compare Essence separates, Essence amp with a different pre, the 333, and the 300.

Hello everyone, here I would not answer Kairosman's or Nyev's questions but you probably know that the Gryphon Diablo 333 will be in Montreal for the weekend of 22 March  2024 in a Canadian premiere (Montreal Audio Fest).

Here is an excerpt from Absolute Sound: "The new Diablo 333 will be on active display in Bliss Acoustics' Montreal Room 2, drivingAudioNec EVO-3 Speakers. Nagra's Reference Anniversary Turntable with Nagra Reference Cartridge and Nagra HD Phono, Playback Designs MPS-8 SACD Player/DAC and Aurender N 20 Network Player, Modulum Racks, CAD GC 3.1 Ground Control, Luna Cables Rouge Series and Stillpoints Aperture II Acoustic Panels complete this "Super System."

I myself am the proud owner of a Gryphon Diablo 300 paired with a LUXMAN DA 10-X player. Recently I sold a superb pair of Sonus Faber Guarneri Evolution.

I was very satisfied but I found that the sound of the Sonus Faber was going a little too much in the same direction as the slightly syrupy Gryphon (the total of both). I sold the Sonus and I'm aiming for FOCAL SCALA V2 (of which I heard the latest EVO version). For the moment I'm listening on VIRGO 25 (back up) and it performs better like that especially since I acquired AUDIOQUEST DRAGON SOURCE and HIGH CURRENT power cord. I now hear the true sound of the devices and I have rediscovered the Audio Physic.

To conclude, I will be happy to shake hands with the Dragan Reljic, Owner of Bliss Acoustics (Where my Gryphon comes from) during this weekend and I would have an attentive ear to the sound of the GRYPHON 333 (hoping that this one will be burn in). I hope that the audiophile media will be able to make a short analysis of it. I find it deplorable that no specialized magazine has yet made it a test bench? Then will it be worth the difference of nearly $10,000 Can. To be continued

@nyev Thank you for sharing your experiences on the isolation feet and power cord upgrades. It's always great to hear how these things work out in real-world scenarios. I have not heard of these Herbie Fat Dots. I am reading up on them more and will likely try out a set for my digital player. Just need to determine which size is a good fit for my Lumin T2.

I do lust after an HC Dragon for the 333 down the road!

@62truck , also, to put the scale of improvement into perspective, I had recently upgraded from Audioquest Hurricane to Dragon power cords on 3 of 4 of my source components with the 4th component having a Firebird powering it.  The improvement was worth the cost (to me).  But there is no question that the inexpensive tweaks above made far more difference.  That said, the upgrades to the dragons may have been needed to make these tweaks so effective.  Lots of variables!

@62truck , I think my tweaks fall into the category of, it works for me and may or may not work in your scenario as they are dependent on a variety of variables.  But for what it’s worth, I switched from using Herbie’s Tenderfeet under my components to Herbie’s Giant Fat Dots, inserted under stock component feet.  These made small incremental improvements and I liked the sound better. But what really transformed everything beyond belief is when I installed the dots under my Innuos PhoenixUSB reclocker.  The level of stability, resolution, and overall noise free sound was astounding.  
 

The other thing I changed was plugging my Diablo directly into my second, unused, 20A dedicated circuit.  I had tried this years back and it sounded better plugged into my Torus RM20.  But I have new cabling, components and speakers now, and now my system sounds far better with the Diablo straight to the wall.  More natural mids and overall more free and flowing; easier to listen to.
 

 

 

@nyev That is great to hear. What sort of tweaks/changes have you made? 
Would love to know!

Due to some recent vibration control and other tweaks in my Diablo 300 and my system is sounding far better than it ever has before….   Really sounds quite stunning now, more natural, flowing and higher resolution.  I’m excited by the potential of the 333 but the thought of messing with this magic that is happening, is a bit worrisome.. 

 

 

Yes that's why they are doing a fire sale, no idea why they've parted ways but can't be easy to replace Gryphon with something comparable.

@kairosman that dealer is no longer carrying Gryphon for some reason or other.  Very odd.