Any opinions on the AMR Digital Processor 777 Dac?

Drubin,
I fully expected a similar response, of course.

You're a good sport, Sabai.

Drubin,
Thanks -- I try to be. In my younger years I used to enjoy baseball, football, hockey and many other sports.

I have owned the 777 for over half year. I have tried tube rolling, different BNC to RCA adapters....the improvement is just not significant. Two months ago, I replaced one of the BNC inputs with RCA(Cardas Rhodium) connector. The result is more focus, sweeter, more detail, more transparent.... Then I went further and replaced the plastic XLR output connectors with the much robust metal Neutric ones. The outcome has even more impact in the sonic improvement than the digital BNC input replacement. This killer combination of these two little mods is so significant that it bring its performance to a whole NEW level. IMHO it is a MUST for all the 777 owners. Enjoy!

My honest opinion of the AMR after four listening sessions with it, including one in my own system, is that is is way overrated. Its not bad, and its features are great, but I actually PREFERRED the Metrum Octave, as did my buddy the AMR owner who sold his and bought a stock Metrum, chuckling all the way to the bank.

Lots of hype, but it is NOT special, IMO. The met rum had better weight, texture and impact.... the amr may have had better air less PRaT, though it was admittedly a splash sweeter.

So Gopher, in your opinion, which dac would be an upgrade from Metrum Octave? I currently have Metrum and looking to make a change. I do not need a lot of features (volumn control, USB in, etc) as long as there's a couple of SPDIF ins and RCA outs (XLR would be nice but not required).

Gopher (Fred) is a great guy but I will have to disagree about the DP-777. I ended up purchasing one just over 1 year ago so I feel like I have a handle on it at this point(I'm the original poster of this thread). My opinion is not worth any more than Fred's but I would highly recommend an audition for yourself. I hate when people spew hyperbole about a product so I won't. I will say, however, that I haven't had a single thought in the last year about dacs and can't think of a single thing it is missing that I desire (well maybe DSD).It is unfailingly musical, has an outstanding linestage, and incredible functionality. I've loved the dac so much I've purchased the 777 integrated amp, phono preamp, 2 AMR power cords, and numerous AMR fuses. To make a hot dog analogy, AMR is "all meat and no fillers" in my opinion.

Gopher,
I love the TWL PC's for some things but definitely not all. Once I took the TWL cord off the AMR and put on a HiDiamond Power3 cord the AMR came to life even more. It was a sleepy lil thing with the cords I think you use. But with a more suitable PC, it 'woke up!'
FWIW I also tried it with a Sablon Gran Corona PC but the HD3 is what really worked for it.
The difference here IME was not small. Added texture, bass and openness...
I understand your "preference" but do not see this unit getting any unnecessary or exaggerated "hype" like you say it is. Just this thread of happy owners. different flavors for different systems.

Schw06, how's the line stage on DP-777? I currently have Pass XP-10 line stage and wondering if DP-777 can replace XP-10 + Metrum. Most DACs that come with volume control are digital, unlike DP-777.

The linestage is absolutely excellent and I would suspect it would be a close race (assuming you don't need extra gain) and would likely make you consider letting the XP-10 go but there is only one way to know. If you happen to go down that route, I would love to find out your thoughts on a head to head comparison.

Kzhloo,

The importer of lampizator, Ming, had his own passion project which was a USB only DAV that was out of this world good, but it was still a prototype when I heard it and msrp should be like $6k+ ouch!

David,

Which part do you disagree with? I've directly compared them as did a proud (at the time) amr owner who ended up kicking his to the curb in favor of the ~$1k DAC. Its nice, but not worth the asking price. Fwiw I compares it on Daedalus Ulysses speakers with a Shindo Aregies and Tube guru d2a amps and my own Zu Def 2s with a Melody AN211. Two pretty resolving systems which consistent results.

Do you disagree with my findings or with my general feelings that its over rated?

Gopher,
I have been fortunate enough to hear the Metrum Octave and AMR on the Def 4's ( in different systems). The Octave is a nice dac at its price point but suffers the same tonal leanness and digital signature that every SS dac at that price point that i have heard suffers from. In my opinion it would hard to find a linestage at $5k that could beat the AMR so it is anything but overpriced. To me it is one of the greatest bargains in dacs(again my opinion, not stating as fact). I was impressed enough to have purchase an all AMR system after living with the dac for a year. I'm not saying this to sway people toward the AMR. I am simply rebutting your opinion that the dac is overpriced...I literally can not think of another dac I would trade it for. I would hate for someone to not demo the product for themself based on your comments. Different systems, interconnects, room acoustics, amps, and speakers will all influence the perception of the dac. In my system, it is stellar and I believe it has that potential in others systems. Your bad experience with the product does not make the product bad or overpriced. Again, I am not looking to inflame of be cantankerous...just a believer that in my system, that dac is the cats meow and believe there are others that will feel the same way.

same here!
Yesterday I compared the Pre section against my Pass XP10 preamp. After two hours I was so happy to switch back to the AMR. This piece is a game changer in my System (Pass XA30.5, Dynaudio Special25).
I paid 3k Euros for it (ex demo)and I don't think that there is anything close to it in that price range.
So in my opinion it is not overpriced but a bargain.

I'm not denying the AMR is a Swiss Army Knife.Its features are wowonderful and the interconnects, powercords and extra bixes it makes unnecessay makes it a good value if you our these things to use as you obviously do.

For those of us that use it solely as a DAC, however, I think similar or even better results can be had cheaper. I won't name people, but I've spoken privately with a handful of former AMR owners who reported similar findings with less expensive competition. In fairness one of then hated the Metrum Hex but still slightly preferred a DAC in the sub $1500 range that even did DSD.

Look, I'm not suggesting the Octave is better, but if your needs are limited to a dac, you are still paying for the unused features so it has to be compared MSRP for MSRP.

As a compliment to AMR, I significantly preferred it to the LampizatOr I previously owned, which was beautiful and seductive, but so colored and romanticized as to play a large role in dictating what I listen to.

Oh and for the record we compared both DACs with the LampizatOr Transport and a Bolder Cable Co Modified Squeezebox Touch with Deluxe power supply and Music Rail upgrades .

David,

Thinking further about it, the fact that your using def 4s makes a bit of sense in your preferences. I have a set of those nanotech drivers for my def 2s and as impressive as theyare, they are a good bit more neutral in presentation and I can.see that extra sweetness of the AMR making a nice synergy.

Beyond that the DACs presentations were more similar then different, don't mistake me for saying the AMR is a poor performer.

What's your budget?

Partial retraction: I was just informed the AMR DAC I'd listened to was an older one and there is a new main board, according to distributor Dareen that sounds much better. I haven't heard this version so I don't want to taint waters/reputation.

My feedback stands with regards to the older version.

I have owned the Octave and used it with the Cynosure USB cable (which I owned at the time) and the Diverter HR (which I owned at the time) the BEST USB-->SPDIF converter I have ever heard.., along with that I installed the AMR fuse in the Octave. Was it good. HECKS YEAH!!!! It was good. One of the best sounds I had heard and as someone who has heard the $90K CH-Precision dac at a friends home, I would say that I would MUCH prefer to listen to the Octave/Diverter HR combination. Now having said all that I will state again as I have in other posts that the Octave is NOT in the same league as the AMR...period. I wanted it to be better because it is less expensive (not by much when you consider the Diverter is about $3K alone) but it simply could npt deliver the goods like the AMR DP777. If you have not replaced the stock fuse in the Octave with the AMR fuse, you have no idea what the Octave is capable of, yet and still it is out-gunned. Now, lets be fair... it is a roughly $1k dac that I think beats up most dacs out there regardless of price.

The AMR either direct into my Graaf GM 200 Graaf Modena or my Thaumaturges or via my MFA Ref or Baby Ref simply outperformed my Octave in the areas of naturalness and flow. Even my (then girlfriend) immediately chose the AMR as the goto device).

Lately I have been downloading hi-res files (just bought Glad Rag Doll / Diana Krall) and that dac is just as killer on my hi-res as it is on well recorded RB material.

I have not heard the Hex... I was going to purchase one, but honestly I have been so pleased with the level of sound I am getting now that I am in no hurry. Perhaps I will find someone who lives near me and get a chance to hear the Hex.

I now use the DP 777 with the ifi iUSBPower finding that is better than the Dynex hub I found and used to use in front of ALL usb dacs including my former Diverter HR as it simply makes them all sound more natural. The AMR DP 777 was the least affected by the hub but it did improve it a bit. The iUSBPower went even further.

Just my 2 cents.

One of my audio buddies has a friend in the AU that has a 25k analog rig along side the rest of his high-dollar (in my world) system... This guy heard the DP-777 in his system and thought it was superb! Said it got closer to his analog rig than he had ever herd before...

Audiofun,

In which ways do you feel the DP777 is in another league then the Octave? I concede my buddy's (actually a friend of Jriggy's too) AMR had the older circuit board which is said not to sound quite as good, but it wasn't that there was a difference we struggled to hear and gave the nod one way--we both flatly preferred the Metrum to the extent my friend sold his at a loss.

Yes indeed both my friend and I are using the AMR fuse and it makes a big difference. So did Herbies footers I found. I'm selling my Metrum now to try a LampizatOr Gen 4/Level 4, but if it doesn't live up to my hopes (like the Gen 3/Level 3 didn't) I may return to Metrum.

Gopher,
And I think I am may be going to borrow that Metrum Octave from your friend to hear for myself...

I wish the fellow from the AU would post his thoughts on the AMR his self. He found it to be superb in his 100k system...

Can someone shed some lights on how to install AMR fuse in Metrum Octave, where to buy AMR fuse (or any fuse that improves Octave)? I've never replaced any fuse (or opened up an audio gear box for that matter). Thanks in advance.

Kzhtoo,

Give Darren at Avatar Acoustics a buzz for the fuse. They're like $20. You need the 20mm .25amp one. Stock value is .20amp, but going over is OK.

Then you just open the power supply chassis from the screws on front, pry the black fuse protector open, pop out old fuse and plug in new one. 3 minutes work.

I noticed Create Audio has cheap audiophile fuses as well at $10. Their tubes are praised so I bought one to try in my new DAC once it breaks in.

I am on my 2nd AMR DP-777 after 1.5 years of ownership, and I am still highly satisfied by its sound. Look at my 300+ audiogon feedback, and you know very few pieces stay in my system for more than a year.

Well, I wish the bass of DP-777 is slightly faster and tauter (like Wadia?), and I believe you can get more excitement with other DACs playing hard-rock music. But I won't sell my DP-777 any time soon.

It's very easy to get a good DAC these days: Esoteric, Benchmark, Lavry, Metrum... just to name a few, with clean, clear sound and ultra high resolution, superb definition plus the "WOW" factor for the first few minutes. And yes, there's nothing wrong with these products.

However, it is very HARD to find a musical DAC for the long run, DP-777 is such a DAC. Ask die-hard analog fans why they don't listen to digital, spend a good 3 hours with LP (do young kids actually sit there listen that long?) and try to listen to the same cut in digital again.

Nothing is the best and everybody has his/her priorities. I won't use DP-777 for studio monitoring (nobody should), but to connect my spirit with music, I can hardly think of any other DAC under $5000. Happy listening.

I enjoyed the DP-777 for a while but swapped it for the NAD M51. No looking back.

I'd make sure to listen to it before buying to my ears and in my system I didn't like it

I am considering buying an AMR 777 DAC. Have any of you guys tried the Berkeley Alpha USB feeding the AMR 777? Do you think it will sound better using a Berkeley feeding a BNC input? What is the ifi iUSBPower unit? Does it require 2 USB cables? I have an Audioquest Diamond USB cable is it a good match with the AMR?
I want to test this unit with the best possible setting.

Coxhaus, USB/SPDIF converters do make a difference, I am using Yulong U-18 with great result after trying a bunch (including Off-ramp4 with all options). The iUSB Power works on passive converters but has minimum impact on Yulong, which already have a robust active power supply. You do need two USB cables with the iUSB, I found USB cables make a small difference (don't use stock computer cable though), but coaxial digital cable makes a big difference.

I have my AMR 777 in house and I am breaking it in. I only have a little over 50 hours now but it is running around the clock. I have come across an issue and maybe someone can help. The first day the DAC ran with my Berkeley Alpha USB connected using BNC with a Purist Dominus Digital cable. The HD DAC chip running organic mode sounds nice and organic. The Philips DAC chip sounds kind of closed in with a small sound stage. If I switch to USB straight into the AMR 777 the Philips chip sounds better to me with a larger sound stage. With direct USB the HD organic chip mode sounds a little to clean to me. My problem is I want Redbook to be directly connected to USB but I want HD to run through the BNC connector. I cannot have both as the Berkeley computer drivers and the AMR drivers cannot be installed at the same time and trying to switch is not practical. Why would the BNC input be different for the 2 DACs? Can anybody confirm what I am hearing?

What are you guys doing? Any ideas?

My DAC has been running for 4 weeks and it now getting very good. Both DAC chips have broken in so please disregard the above post as it has no meaning.

This is a great DAC now that it has lots of hours on it. I have sold the Berkeley Alpha USB converter running into the AMR 777. The AMR 777 has a better USB input than the Berkeley running through the BNC connector. When running the Berkeley into the AMR777’s BNC connector the sound loses punch which is not a problem using the internal USB connector. So I am quite happy with the AMR777 DAC now.

I am using an Audioquest Diamond USB cable. What USB cables are you guys using with the AMR777 DAC?

I am currently using Ifi Gemini and Ifi USB. I have tried using Halide Design USB to BNC, but not much difference to normal USB cable. To my ears, the Ifi Gemini gives a bit more weight and clarity to the sound.

Any one tried a different fuse than the stock AMR gold?

Sabai,

I am considering one of these two DACs - NAD M51 or AMR DP-777. What do you think does the NAD better than the AMR? And vice versa?
Both seem to be highly praised. But their prices are so far off each other that I have a hard time believing the NAD being same or even better than the AMR...

Thanks, Karmakuma

Karmakuma,

What does the NAD M51 do better? Everything. It is a sleeper -- and a steal. IMO.

I have tried a bunch of separate USB/SPDIF converters before the AMR DP-777, including really expensive ones from Off-ramp with all possible options and modifications. Each sounds different but none presented a significant upgrade to running USB directly into AMR. That holds true until one day I inserted the Z-system RDP-1 before my USB/SPDIF dongle and AMR, it has brought the performance up to a new level, I would say night and day. Now I can never go back to the USB port running direct. Too bad I have to turn one four boxes (MacBookPro, USB/SPDIF dongle, Z-system RDP1, and AMR DP-777) before the AMR locks onto any signal, but it's worth it.

To all AMR DP-777 owners: If you don't have something like Z-system RDP-1 before your DAC, you don't know how your AMR is all about. It doesn't matter whether you are using PC, Mac, or CEC belt-driven transport. It doesn't matter whether you are using AQ Diamond or WW Platinum Starlight USB cable, they make 5-10% difference, but if you have the money, buy a good re-clocking device like the RDP-1 and sit in amazement! It's like transforming your $5K DAC to $10K, or from DP777 to CD77.

Karmakuma, I will personally choose AMR DP777 over NAD M51. To me the NAD makes more Hi-Fi sense, the AMR makes more musical sense.

More specifically, if you love big bass the NAD will do better. But the AMR's naturalness and delicacy in midrange is really something special.

Any saying like "sleeper", "world beater", "everything" is just misleading. Nothing is the best and it all depends on your priority. It's easy to buy HiFi-ish DAC for around $1~2K, but very hard to buy musically involving DAC even if you spend $10~20K. The AMR is not a perfect DAC, but at least in a few aspects it enters the cost-no-object category.

Yingtonggao,

You stated "But the AMR's naturalness and delicacy in midrange is really something special." This is exactly what I found with the NAD M51. I would classify it as very musical -- more musical that the AMR in my system. And the NAD M51 has no design issues. Regarding musicality, much is system dependent, IMO.

There's an interesting head fi thread on this in the headphone world in the summit fi forum.

Sabai,
Are you still using power cords in series, via the VH Audio PC break-in adapters??? I tried this and am curious if you are still doing it or if you are still running in series with your SC's and IC's also...
Jason

And to be thread relevant, I sold my DP-777 for a Lampizator DAC.

Which Lampi did you get?

Jriggy,

I am not running cables in series anymore. No need for this since I bought the Raidhos and switched over to David Elrod cables. But my front end is still in series -- isolation transformer > power conditioner > power regenerator.

I sold my AMR DP-777 for a NAD M51 which will eventually be replaced by an Audio Horizons 3.1.

I have a Lampizator level 4 gen 4. It is supremely musical with better bass than the AMR and a nice rich analog sound. But Yington is right. Nothing is the best and it all depends on your priority. The AMR has better front to back layering and delicacy. Maybe something else too but the music just flows from the Lamp... Different flavors. I demoed a Luxman integrated amp that had a warm and round sound, not overly detailed. With that amp, I was wishing I had the AMR again.

I believe the NAD M-51 is a giant killer!, It appears that the player is pulling off the David and Goliath story here on this thread!, For a $1,700.00 dac to be mentioned here is a miracle in its-self.

Did anyone see this.
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?ddgtl&1205899113
Shootout: AMR CD-77 vs. AR CD7 vs. Wadia 581se

Gopher:

I know you query was forever ago :) but I just saw your query and since this thread is still going...

The AMR is beyond the Octave in its presentation of continuity. Much like a great analog rig can outshine a dac concerning continuousness of musical flow.., the AMR juxtaposed to the Octave elicits the same effect. I had both units in my rig side by side and could compare the Octave/Diverter HR directly to the AMR and that comparison ALWAYS made the Octave sound mechanical. I know that sounds harsh, but it was obvious and inescapable.., the Octave simply sounded.., well mechanical and harder almost like you could visualize the numbers being crunched to make the music. I still hold that it is a great dac and if you listen to it without having the AMR nearby it is very enjoyable.

These days, my AMR has the Duelend VSF Black caps, I use an iPurifier and iUSB and (2) ifi Gemini cables along with the iTube. As you can tell.., I like the AMR/iFi line of gear :)

Due to the iTube I actually sold both of my MFA Reference TVC's (Ref and Baby Ref) as I felt it brought the magic and fullness that the MFA's presented. That is not as surprising as it may seem when you find out that the man who actually designed the transformers in the MFA Ref is Thorsten Loesche, who happens to be one of the principals behind AMR/iFi.

Audiofun

I have an AMR777 DAC and really like it. I noticed you have the Duelend VSF Black caps. Are these caps the copper version? Have you gotten the upgrade SE version coming out already? I can’t wait for the upgraded caps and SE mod. It has me all excited.

Thanks
lee

Hi Coxhaus, I do have the copper VSF Black caps. I will be getting the SE modification and I am excited as well. I don't have it as yet, because it is not available yet.., shipping last day of March...

Upgraded digital engine with Quad Core engine, in-house designed upgraded coupling cap and the NOS 5670 tube with built in noise filters in the tube socket.

Good times indeed!!!!

Anyone know when the DSD upgrade will be available? If it's still a while off then I will order the SE upgrade, not a trivial advantage to keep their customers loyal considering most companies just sell you another model.
Audiofun: did you do the caps upgrade yourself?

Jazzonthehudson (love the handle btw); No, laziness LOL... I sent it to Avatar for the change. I am really busy with my software dev business and they would have sat around forever :)

Anyone has got the SE upgrade lately? Which NOS tubes in the SE upgrade package are being used?
After moving to the Lampi L4G4, I like the sound (more liquid) but miss the, IME, better volume control of the DP-777 and its better designed USB circuitry.