You're comparing very old tables in unknown condition and expecting anyone to know. Which might have been a reasonable question if asked back in the day when they were all new. But now, condition is everything. The best of the three when new could easily be the worst of the three now, depending entirely on condition.
The smart thing to do is hook them all up play a record and see. It takes like 5 minutes to swap the same cartridge, no point perfecting alignment you won't need it not for this.
Otherwise, the Sansui is the safe bet. Mint condition matters most. Auto off switch you can do without, all it means is you have a manual instead of semi-auto. You have to cue it up at the end. Big deal.
But they're all turntables. Ultimately you go with the one you like the one with the look and the feel as well as the sound. So which one do you like? |
Millercarbon
Great advice! I think my buddy would let me take them home and try them. Maybe I can borrow one of his cartridges that fits on all of them too. |
That’s the best way. Here’s the full-blown methodical way. One by one check them out visually and by hand. Pull platters, check belt or idler wheel for condition- cracks, dents etc. Turn bearing by hand, feel for smoothness and play. Do the same for the arms. Set the arm to balance at zero skating and without cartridge and check to see how freely it floats. If it sticks at all that’s not good. Or if there is any play at all also bad. Check suspension and feet. Look for hidden damage. One little jammed spring or bushing can ruin performance. Phono lead, cartridge pins and wires. All these things can turn into major headaches later. Mount the cartridge and don’t fuss being precise it won’t be worth it. Listen for music and also listen for background noise like bearing rumble. Differences I bet will not be subtle and one will stand out and it might not be the one we think right now (Sansui). AR has no mat but if another one does swap it over to AR.
I have a vintage 1976 Technics and can tell you any or all when they get that old the bearing can run dry and just need lube. Which is why checking that is one of the first steps. Hopefully your guy being into it has taken care of some of the more obvious stuff like this but it pays to be thorough.
If one stands out you’re done and can get to tweaking starting with better cartridge alignment. But if you find two that are close then take a closer look at the parts and what can be improved or needs improvement. You will find there is a huge difference between the sound you get initially and what you can get with just a little time and effort tweaking these things. You learn a lot and all of it directly applicable to every other analog rig you can name. Most guys never mess around, too scared they might damage their Precious. These no worries so make the most of it. |
Hey man! Been awhile since I’ve seen your handle on a new thread, and I trust you’re still doing well.
I’ve got some experience with the AR, Marantz and Garrard tables. Of those, the AR could be the best way to go, especially if you like to tinker. It’s a classic design that has remained desirable for decades. They are dirt-simple to work on and solidly built. If I recall correctly, the AR platter is the heaviest of the bunch, which is generally preferable. Mats are a standard tweak so not a worry.
Basically, the table itself just needs to spin silently. The main bearing assembly in these tables is easily disassembled, cleaned and oiled. So long as the bearing and "race" (it isn’t really, more like a sleeve in most cases but I digress) aren’t pitted or corroded, you’re fine. The motor has to hold it’s speed and be noise-free (both electrically and mechanically). Noisy motors are a problem. They can usually be replaced, but then you’re investing money you could have put toward a newer, and possibly better, rig. No matter what, clean the platter, pulley and replace the belt. 91% isopropyl is usually sufficient for cleaning mechanical surfaces. There are number of YouTube tune-up videos out there and you’ll want to check them out.
The tonearm is a key concern with all tables of this age. It is the component that determines whether the stylus can properly trace the record groove. That means the mechanical action of the arm dictates how the table ultimately performs. The AR XA/XB arm is very basic and if there is a weak link, that’s it. No anti-skate, azimuth is how you screw the head shell in and VTF adjustment is coarse. A good protractor will be a must to set alignment. Arms can all be rewired, but with oxidization of the lube in the bearings and other accumulations of entropy, a full rebuild or replacement should be on your horizon if you decide you want to get further into analog and you pick the AR.
The Marantz has the best arm of the 4 and is also very robustly constructed. It’s a solid alternative. If I remember aright, it was actually a private labeled Japanese table. Most of the JVC, Kenwood, Pioneer, Sansui and Technics (Panasonic) have very similar designs.
MC is correct about the Sansui’s auto-off function, but finding repair parts if you’re so inclined could entail a long search. The arm has a mechanical return function so the fault may not be a switch - lots of bits and pieces can cause the function to fail. I can’t speak to the tracking capability but would suspect it’s similar to the Marantz. Note that both the Marantz and Sansui feature auto-off. That means you’ll lose that function permanently if you choose to upgrade the arm on either.
My experiences with most Garrard products were not generally favorable. They employed questionable engineering and executed to a lower quality than most of their competitors. I always had trouble getting them to perform consistently as a result. Folks rave about their high-end rim drive units, but those are very different animals from the Zero 100 (the Zero 92 was a record changer BTW).
The key consideration is how much tinkering you really want to do. Compare that with the $$$ you want to invest. Keep in mind that an entry-level cartridge will be ~$100, a mat is ~$30 and protractor ranges from free (downloaded and printed) to hundreds. And you’re putting that into a 45 year-old device. A Pro-Ject Debut Carbon with cartridge sells for $500 brand-new.
Hope this helps & have fun with the project. Happy listening!
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Just try all of them(if you can) with an appropriate value Audio Technica MM cart, and you're good to go. If one sticks, later you could even put a budget MC to see if you like what they have to offer.
Good enough to figure out if you want to continue deeper into"the void" or just enjoy playing a record. |
Where is he located? May be able to help. |
AR, upgrade to best carbon fiber tonearm you ca afford. M/C cartridge |
he works on them, so, how much does he want to fix the Sansui? |
Technology of Garrard Zero is intriguing, what kind of money you talking? https://www.vinylengine.com/library/garrard/zero-100.shtml review:
file:///C:/Users/ellio/Downloads/ve_garrard_zero_100_reviews.pdf
Note 15 degree VTA feature, thus a used Shure V15 body, with new Stylus from Jico would seem a good choice from Vinyl Engine: "The Garrard Zero 100 is a superb two-speed transcription turntable with such special features as: An ingenious tonearm virtually without tracking error (patent applied for) with damped cueing action. A magnetic tonearm anti-skating system (patent applied for). A motor with the advantages of both induction and synchronous motors (patent applied for). A record speed and pitch control system with built in stroboscopic checking. A tilting device to set the cartridge at a 15 degree tracking angle. In addition to manual operation the Zero 100 will automatically play single 7", 10" and 12" records, or a stack of up to seven 12" records - adaptors are available to play records with large centre holes and to play a stack of 7" records." |
As for which table will be in need of the MOST TLC, that’s the Garrard Zero 100. That tonearm only works well if it’s in absolute first rate condition! Any stiction, any binding, any wear, any damage, and it will malfunction! If you are very mechanically inclined, you can make it a nice table. But if you aren’t, it’s a huge PITA! After the arm, the rest is average at best build quality.
Me? Hands down, I’d go with the AR. It’s a Legacy table that is valued and sought after. And for good reason. It’s well made in all the right ways. The Marantz? Meh. The Sansui? Meh. Both of the latter are nothing to write home about. Pretty much dime-a-dozen tables.
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The AR is the best sounding TT here! Even with its clunky stock arm! I have one in my collection - nicely restored and modded by VinylNirvana. The stock arm tube was replaced with a Technics, removable headshell and new wiring. Dynamat damping applied under the platter and inside the plinth. Automotive red lacquer finish on the plinth. |
The AR turntable has the best sound but it is ancient history.Enjoy!! |
Don’t bother with the Garrard. It is a cheap plastic table with an even cheaper plastic arm. I used to sell the Zero100C back in the 70’s. Brand new they were junk, the sliders on the arm jammed up constantly and we got at least half of them returned as defective. We dumped the Garrard. line because of that. I don’t usually agree with millercarbon but in this case, I do 100%. |
Again thanks guys. I look to the turntable experts here and have not been disappointed. Effischer, great hearing from you and I do trust your opinion. I might just try the Sansui and AR when my buddy gets around to working on them. I don’t think he would mind a test run on my end, since we already did some business together. Frankly, the only Garrard I would ever try is the 301, but I don’t know how transcription tables fair nowadays with DD and belt tables. If I went with the AR, I would mount another tonearm and cart on it.
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