I found a dealer that carries the P1-200s that's relatively close to me. I will be taking my amp, preamp, and cables to listen to the P1-200s. I'll be sure to provide my honest feedback. |
The main thing for me is that people get honest information. I do not say a 7k speaker is better than a 30k speaker. What is the end results you get? This is what you hear at the end. You want to enjoy you music with your stuff. I visit enough people with expensive stuff and they did not enjoy it. I understood why. They had many times acoustic problems. Or more over they had the wrong combination of equipment. You have to understand all the properties/ talents of every individual part in your system. Only then you can understand how your sound at home is created. Wenn I see how systems of people here at audiogon are combined of. I can see easy the limitations. Because I know the properties. First you need to understan music and how it sounds in real. With this in mind you need to do your work to get the absolute sound with great precision. Wenn you have limitations in your system you can not enjoy your music. Then this can become an obsession. That is why I say: please think well before you buy a speaker. You need to know how it integrates in home situation. And what it needs to be driven well. En what you need to get a musical and involving sound. The tweeter of the sasha is less open and transperent than the ribbon tweeter of the Platinum speaker. It has more authority in the higher freq. So it sounds less harsh. It is that easy. |
Kiddman, I did not say that Wilson ever said that their old speakers can be harsh and/or fatigue. That story is indeed told by reviewers and dealers. However, what you wrote is only half of the story. Basically, we are told that the Wilson can be harsh at times because they originate from a studio monitor. Consequently, they are so transparent that every peace in the system counts and it can significantly affect their performance. They "only" reflect the quality of the components and of to the material fed to them ...
I do not want to speculate who started this story, but clearly the story has something for everybody, i.e. dealers who want to sell the new models, experience audiophiles who want a "true-to-source" speaker, new audiophiles, and also the Wilson company. I would say that if Wilson did not agree at all with this story they would have done something about it. We all know that the distributors and the dealers are most often told what they should say to their clients -- very few, like Bo1972 here, actually go against the current and recommend 7k speakers over 30k speakers. (Of course, who's to say that Bo1972 does not have an agenda too.) I find this marketing unimaginative because, as you have pointed out, is repeated for very many years now.
Coming back to Sasha, as I have mentioned in my first post here, it can play decent music also with lesser electronics. I am sure that a smooth and decently powerful SS integrated (e.g. Musical Fidelity, Mcintosh, Rowland, Accuphase etc.) can keep a not-so-wealthy Sasha owner happy till he/she can afford more expensive electronics that will max out the performance of Sasha. |
I think this thread is taken over by Bo1972 now! Let us not
bash Wilson but get back to Sasha.
As there are as so many Sasha in the 2nd hand market
completing with the older W/P models, we should compare
their pros and cons for new potential buyers. Imo, I favour
W/P 7,8, to the Sasha as they are easier to get better
results with less than perfect match-ups. All Wilson
speakers requires careful match-up but Sasha's requirement
is the most harsh. Let me explain, We all know W/P favours
tubes to sound best in the mid and high, W/P7 is harsh in
the highs but bass is easiest to drive. W/P 8 always have
too much bass no matters how hard you try. Sasha's bass can
be close to perfect but needs tons of current down low to
tame it. So, which amp has silky tube like highs/mids and
tons of current?? I think only a handful super-amps fits the
bill and $$$$! |
"Kiddman, I fully agree with what you are saying. Very silly and unimaginative marketing."
Thanks, but this is not what Wilson says (they never say the old one was bad). It is what enthusiasts and press say: the old ones are fantastic, no faults mentioned, until the new ones come out, and then the true failts with the last ones are finally admitted. And all along, the faults have been generally the same. Unfortunately, the faults have always been in the harshness/brightness/hard to listen to/amusical areas. |
It is truly amazing how many time this has been said about the previous iteration of Wilsons inclusing W/P and Maxx.
It goes (and has gone) something like this:
"Oh, but you should hear the 3, the last was so harsh".
Then when the 4 comes out, the same is said about the 3.
When the 5 comes out, the same is said about the 4.
It is an amazing phenomenon. I can't think of a company whose next model is time and time again so much better than the last model!
Kiddman (Answers | This Thread) So TRUE that it's funny. Ricred1, in case you are really interested in alternatives to Sasha, try to listen TAD and Raidho speakers. You can't go wrong with TAD or Vivid IMO. Just got my TAD and off the bus. |
Wenn I see the pictures here at audiogon of Wilson owners. I see most of them have a separate room and adjust it acousticly. Most clients I visit in the Netherlands had a normal living room were they used the Wilson speakers. Wilson should make a special speaker what would be less difficult to use in a living room. |
You are welcome ofcourse to visit me. I will write a review of the Pl-200 as well soon. Ron Kemp of Kemp Electroniks visit me at the show in Veldhoven as well. He was really surprised by the level of my presentation. He visit other rooms as well. There was no set what could match this level he said. In a few weeks he will come to my house. The set at the show was my set at home. Theo Wubbels of HVT said: my presentation was the absolute sound of the whole show. My photographic memory makes audio so much more easy to understand and adjust. I am only interested in the best level in sound. I want a deep and wide stage with a extrem sharp individual focus. Were instruments and voices have the dimensions as in real. Because at the show most of the systems instruments and voices are played too big. Audioquest and Purist Audio are both aware of the small proportions of voices and instruments in real. Musicians will tell you the same story. For me it is about quality. I want my clients to get the same stunning sound I have. I want my clients tpo get a 10 ( A) for the money they spend. Not an 8 or nine. Because good is not good enough for me. |
Regarding Wilson speakers and acoustic problems, I tend to disagree a bit
with Bo1972. Wilson dealers, while not experts, they know a bit more than the
average dealer about placing and setting up their speakers - as they are
trained to set up Wilson speakers. My experience with Wilson at show is that
they often sound at least above the average. They have a lot of bass, more
than enough details and have absolutely no problem to go loud. While I have
never wanted to buy a pair, I can understand why so many people buy them.
Ricred1, in case you are really interested in alternatives to Sasha, try to listen
TAD and Raidho speakers.
Kiddman, I fully agree with what you are saying. Very silly and unimaginative
marketing.
Bo1972,
Firstly, I have read this story of yours also on other threads. There really is no
need to continue to repeat it. Why not open a thread about Monitor Audio PL-
200 & PLW-15, Pass Labs, Onkyo and Audyssey Pro? Also, what other
speakers have you compared to Monitor Audio PL-200? Of course, I am
interested in comparisons done in your room between speakers optimized by
you using "your" set up procedure.
Secondly, comparing the sound stage and stereo image of a systems that has
been carefully optimized to the sound stage and stereo image of systems that
have not been properly optimized is meaningless. Especially since electronic
room correction systems improve significantly the sound stage, stereo
image and bass of a system. Moreover, I would argue that pin-point accuracy
and wide sound stage are certainly not the only things that are important,
timber accuracy is at least as important IMO.
Thirdly, I would be more than happy to visit your shop and listen to your
system and report back if things are so fantastic. Just let me know your
details, I live in the Netherlands too. |
The biggest problem Wilson has are the acoustic problems it gives. Wenn you want to buy Wilson speakers you need a big room and a separate room just for music. Second you need to adapt it acoustically. This makes it very expensive to use. You need the right stuff to drive and control it as well. Then you are not even ready. You need to do a lot to get a musical and involving sound. All these parts makes it a difficult speaker to tame. Even the few times I heard it at a good level. I still missed essential parts what should be there. I like the way they look. And it is made with passion. But it will never be enough to buy it or sell it for me. A few years ago I went to a presentation of the Wilson Audio Alexandria 2. Wilson was there as well. I had some very critical questions for him. But the train which I took got broke. We had to wait for over 2 hours. It was too late to go to this presentation. |
"I think that the biggest problem for Wilson is that people bash Sasha based on their previous experiences with earlier generations of Wilson speakers. Sasha sounds VERY different to all earlier W/P models"
---------------------------------------------------------
It is truly amazing how many time this has been said about the previous iteration of Wilsons inclusing W/P and Maxx.
It goes (and has gone) something like this:
"Oh, but you should hear the 3, the last was so harsh".
Then when the 4 comes out, the same is said about the 3.
When the 5 comes out, the same is said about the 4.
It is an amazing phenomenon. I can't think of a company whose next model is time and time again so much better than the last model! |
I am not bashing Wilson. The make fine speakers, not impressive.It is as it is. The Pl-200 is more natural sounding compared to the Sasha. read this article:
http://www.stereophile.com/content/monitor-audio-platinum-pl200-loudspeaker
Stage of the Pl-200 is wider and deeper compared to the Sasha. Sensitivity is almost the same. S.P.L. of the Pl-200 is almost 118dbA. It is faster in respons compared to the Sasha. It can play at extreme volumes without any stress. It gives less acoustic problems. Monitor Audio tok a lot of efforth to amke it fit in almost any room. Instruments are sharper focussed than the Sasha. Use a Pass Labs amp and you will understand and hear the differences with ease between the two. The PLW-15 is for a 50kg sub with a poweramp at max 2000 watt peak very fast in respons and control. But you need Audyssey Pro to control it. The way we from Sound&Vision Consulting measure sets Audyssey pro to a superior level. Now I have the stealth low freq. I always dreamed of. It is fully integrated with my Pl-200. It is the first time in my life a subwoofer has become one with the frontspeakers. Instruments and voices are even sharper focussed and have the small dimension as they are in real. Wenn you use a sub with his own roomcorrection instruments and voices become less sharp focussed and bigger in proportion as they should be. Wilson is a brand what makes speakers wich are difficult to adapt in a normal living room situation. What I said before; many of my clients with Wilson speakers had the same acoustic limitations. Limitations means less enjoying of your favorite music. I listen for a few hours every day. because I enjoy music now at the max because there are no acoustic limitations anymore. At the end it is all about music. A system is never more than equipment to let you hear your favorite music. It is this simple! |
Bo1972 - you obviously must have some problems with Wilsons. 10 bashing posts, in just one thread !
FYI - I'm a classical music lower. Just before I went with Sashas, I have had Avalon Eidolon Vision and I have also extensively auditioned (in my system) Audio Physics Avanti, Magnepans 3.6, Audiostatic and Quad 2905 (which is one of the most natural sounding speakers around). I strongly disagree with what you had written regarding the Sasha. This speaker sounded beautifully natural natural in my room, with the 'you are there feeling' and soundstaging which was second to none.
I think that the biggest problem for Wilson is that people bash Sasha based on their previous experiences with earlier generations of Wilson speakers. Sasha sounds VERY different to all earlier W/P models (I hated myself all WP models I have heard, starting from the WP3.2 up to WP7; the fact that I liked Sasha so much was actually a big surprice for me !) which is probably exactly why Wilson didn't call this speaker WP9.
PS. I just sold my Sashas, so I'm not defending the speaker I own. I'm defending a speaker which I used to own, and I think it is a great product. Right now I'm on a fence which speaker to choose next. Wilson Alexia is one of the speakers I'm seriously considering. |
I had only 2 experience with Good Wilson demo's. The rest, we are talking about many were quite worse. I sold my Pass Labs X100.5 to a client with Puppy7 speakers. This was good, not very good. Because in my world it is not fast enough and I could not use it for classical music. The thing I most don't like is how it projects instruments and voices. My Pl-200 is superior in 3d imaging. It is more round,touchable and more precise in dimension. This last part is crucial for me. This is the highest level of intimacy in sound. Could be also caused by the speed. Many peolple here in Holland have so much acoustic problems witht these speakers. You hear the noise of the room or the sound becomes a real mess. Why you would choose for these problems. Start with a speaker with less flaw's and limitations I would suggest. |
Bo1972,
I would like to hear your speaker suggestions.
I have heard Wilson's sound both very good and just average in the same room with different equipment. |
You can buy Sonus Faber Stradivari for low prices. This one makes music. The only thing what misses is a deep stage. Wilson does this part better. But still not stunning! I did compare in the past the Sasha 2 with the Pl-300 of Monitor Audio. Stage of the Monitor Audio is bigger. There is more air and resolution as well. Instruments were better focussed. This is because the respons of th Platinum series is faster compared to the Wilson's. These days I use a Pl-200 with a PLW-15 subwoofer. One of the fastest and best stealth low freq. I ever heard by a sub. You need to us Audyssey pro. Now I have full 3d sound form 16 hz till above 100.000 hz. The 200 gives me also stunning sound with classical music. Wilson I could not live to listen to classical music. Why? Because in real it sounds a lot different. I would get irritated! I also play 1 metre beside the speakers. This makes the stage very wide. Within this stage I have also a stunning 3s sharp individual focus. Almost all demo's at show's instruments and voices are played too big. With this in mind you will loose intimacy. My way of doing measuments with Audyssey Pro sets music to a much higher level in 3d touchable sound. This was the main reason why people found it the absolute sound of last week. The key is timing and sound realism. I will tell you one difference between Pass and Densen. A Pas can let you hear the difference of two acoustic gutars with ease. A Densen they will sound a lot more the same. Pass is great in sound, 3d and speed en timing is stunning. This is why I will go for the 600.5 this year. |
"04-12-13: Bo1972
.......Wenn I listend I knwe I would have the best sound of everything. In 3 days many people came to me. Distributer owners who said: Bobby you have the best sound by far. Yesterday the owner and boss of the biggest Audio Magazine in Holland said: You had the absolute sound. What will be next. I am taking with a few brands to give shows. I hope to do some in the US as well. Then you can see me and hear were I am talking about. Hearing is believing. Monitor Audio England was even that surprised. I think and work in tools. A source, amp, speaker or cable is a tool for me. I test it and I will lable all the properties/talents it has. I can see and hear 3-4 steps further than other people can in this world of audio. I will soon send some links about the show. To be continued...
Bo1972 (Reviews | Threads | Answers | This Thread)"
_____________________________
<< Please don't. "yeWnn"... |
The consensus, if there is one, seems to be that Wilson Sashas can sound great, with a lot of effort and the right ancillaries and recordings. That seems to be my limited experience too. As a point of principal, can any product be considered great,, when there are these provisos. I am not trying to give a definitive answer here, but asking the question.
I have been struck before by some HiFi reviewers, particularly in HiFi+, where they give a glowing write up about a product, concluding "It's the best there is, on such and such music, if you use these speakers and cables etc"
To me, how can it by great with so many qualifications.
To make some suggestions for Ricred1, about alternatives under $30000, that are musical, unfussy and not critical of the genre of music being played, I would suggest Daedalus, perhaps the Ulysses and Sonus Faber. |
Bo1972,
Considering what I paid,I'm actually happy with my system. Have you ever heard Densen with Sasha's? I listen to contemporary Jazz and some old R&B. When the recording permits, the image has depth and extends outside of the speakers. Have I heard the Sasha's sound better...yes I have(usually tubes).
In all seriousness, I don't want you to recommend any speakers for me...I've had the luxury of auditioning everything that I've purchased. My wife and I are the only ones that can determine what to purchase. I do get recommendation from a very good dealer/friend of 20 years...he usually asks the following questions, what I'm I looking to improve and how much can I comfortably spend. I will continue to improve my system as funds permit. |
Hey Ricred, I see you use Densen. I sold it for a couple of years. You have to understand properties/talents of the equipment you buy. Densen is open, fast en controlled. But it misses the emotional musical sound amps like Pass can give. Focus is good, but not stunning. In highend perspective there is not a very deep stage. Beside this I do not think your speakers are that special. The combination is not the best marriage. I would never advice this combination. Your speakers can give a good wide and deep stage. Not extreemly wide and deep, but it is there. It is not that fastest speaker on the planet. I would choose for a more musical amp like Pass or maybe tubes for your speakers. Definitely no Denson. They are both not that involving, I can imagine you are not extreemly happy with it. I could not be either to be honest. For the money you spend you could get a much higher level. I would have used my money differently. Wilson speakers give many times a lot of acoustic problems. So the people who think it is a fast speaker, just dream on. It is not. Speakers which are fast have less acoustic problems. You go for another amp or a speakerset. |
I will need some time to ask your question. I will in a few days. Wenn I give an answer I want to do it right. I promisse. |
Bo1972
It's great that you have outstanding ears, but all I asked was for you to recommend 3 alternatives to Sashas below 30K. |
This weekend I was at a show with 50 distributers. Magico S1, New Dynaudio Platinum, Focal Scala etc. I was here with Monitor Audio Pl-200 ( which is in 3d, speed, natural sound and imaging a lot better than the Pl-300. Which I own for 5 years. And I sold a lot), PLW-15 subwoofer, which is the fastest sub in respons till about 6000 dollar. I used the Pass Labs X250.5 I used the Onkyo BD-SP809 as a source. Before this I owned the Meridian 800 DAXv4 dvd player. The most special thing is: Onkyo PR-SC5509 with Audessey Pro. But now comes the key. I did many tests in the last 15 years. We are talking about maybe thousands of tests. From not expensive till very expensive stuff. Since 6 months I know I have a photographic memory. The part of your brain were you use ther audition for audio had developed a lot. I can hear so much more than normal people can. Many times in 1/10 of a second I know everything of a set. What are the properties in sound. What is there and what is missing. Fort me it has become that easy. I can easily compare the first audition witht the second. I have in my head the first one, the second one I can compare very precise. This makes it more easy to understand the difference. What I did with Audessey pro is using it at Highend Standards. I measure at totally different hights and places compared to the Audyssey Way. The endresults are superior. I can measure so much more dynamics than they do. At the end I have a lot more drive, focus, sound realism, 3d imaging and control. I have even superior level in sound then what I had with my Pass Labs XP-20. Which I owned for 2 years. I did not sleep for one night because I had to do everything myself. At 5;15 I was ready with my Audyssey pro measurment. Wenn I listend I knwe I would have the best sound of everything. In 3 days many people came to me. Distributer owners who said: Bobby you have the best sound by far. Yesterday the owner and boss of the biggest Audio Magazine in Holland said: You had the absolute sound. What will be next. I am taking with a few brands to give shows. I hope to do some in the US as well. Then you can see me and hear were I am talking about. Hearing is believing. Monitor Audio England was even that surprised. I think and work in tools. A source, amp, speaker or cable is a tool for me. I test it and I will lable all the properties/talents it has. I can see and hear 3-4 steps further than other people can in this world of audio. I will soon send some links about the show. To be continued... |
Bo1972,
Name three speakers under 30K that I should listen to, so I can sell my Sashas. I listen to Jazz and my room is 20'x26'. |
Do not get me wrong. Wilson is not a bad product. But it is not that good many people think it is. Nothing more, nothing less. |
I never sold Wilson. I know for a long time that Wilson sounds a lot different than instruments sounds in real. But many people who bought it do not have this knowledge. I had the chanche to listen en test so many stuff in 15 years. This makes it more easy to judge and understand. In the beginning I did audio for 80 hours a week. I was that addicted. All my free time I spend on testing. Mannnn I love it that much. I like to find out the quality and talents/properties of speakers, amps, cables, sources etc. |
Hey Bo I think its time to put down the crack pipe |
Bo1972 sounds like a dealer I know who was a Wilson loyalist until he spent a day listening to a customer's system that used a brand that is known for making music. His comment to me: "How could I have missed so much music for that many years?" |
I would not want one for free in my room. But yess I would one for free to sell to a fool. |
All my clients who owned Wilson speakers had a lot of acoustic problems. Why you would choose for this? Why you choose for a sound what is difficult to get a musical and involving sound. Why you use for less deep stage if you can get a much deeper stage? Why you choose for a focus what is not extrreemly sharp as what is possible? Mmmmmmmm...just tell me........ |
Mpit's comment is in line with my experience. Try as I might, massed strings on a large number of my favorite recording were a problem with my Wilson's. Peaky mic's, mic's to close, mastering issues, sunspots, who knows? Still, if I wanted to listen to Bruno Walter, forget it. But Refference Recordings, Sheffied's, Harmonia Mundi, etc. sounded fine. The string edge on too many recordings finally caused my to look elsewhere.
For the longest time I couldn't decide if the Wilson's had a peak in just the wrong place, a violin, or if most classical recording engineers go for excessive detail. I finally decided it was a little of both.
If you want sweet sounding strings, the old Wilson tweeter isn't your best bet. I suspect the new silk tweeter will be better. But with rock and jazz, the issue I had with Wilson was immaterial.
|
Nvp,
Sorry for directing my response to you. |
I have owned probably 10 to 15 pair of speakers in the 10K plus price range. While most of them are very good in their own right, Wilsons have got to be right up there with the best if your listening to rock and roll. |
Ricred1, my post was meant to be ironic. It was a response to B01972's post on 04-02-13. |
Nvp,
"eventually everybody here has figured out Wilson speakers are very bad." I guess I didn't get the memo...I've listened to many speakers and for some strange reason I preferred Wilson Sashas. I didn't take anyone's advise, my wife and I used our ears. I heard several speakers that I enjoyed and/or did somethings better than Sashas; however overall I preferred Sashas. Speakers are about component matching...I recently inserted a new cd player in my system that changed the tonality of my speakers and after a couple of days I returned it. I had a home audition of another player that complimented my "overall" system. My point is your not just hearing a speaker, your hearing a system and my experience tells me that when partnered with the right components Sashas are just as good as other speakers. That being said, everyone has different preferences and there are no absolutes! |
Mpit, it looks like eventually everybody here has figured out what Bo1972
knew for some time now, i.e. Wilson speakers are very bad speakers. :)
Though, I find it hard to believe that a dealer, i.e. Bo1972, would not want
Wilson speaker in his room even if they are for free...
|
this might be a little off topic but maybe not. People are talking about a lot of Sashas becoming available in the near future. Where have all the watt puppies gone. It used to be there were many different ones for sale at any given time. Now there don't seem to be any? |
All the times I listend to classical music on Wilson speakers it was so much different then in real. One of my best friends had a small concert room for about 60 people with a Steinway wing. I miss the wood sound of a violin. I miss the sharp and direct focus. An I miss the deep stage. In my world Wilson speakers sound a lot different then in real. I miss too many parts what can be there. For this I would not even want a Wilson speaker for free in my room! |
Like you , I had to made a decision to buy a used pair Sasha(18months) in less than a few hours, as in Sydney, the new price is so high that any good 2nd hand pair is too good to miss out! I paid A$16000 and new is more than A$35,000. Sasha are great speakers but not the last anyone will own!! I found it very demanding to get out it's best. With different equipments, there is always something better and something not quite right, I used CJ Premier350, Audio Research Vt100iii and Lamm ML2.1. Six months later, I had to let it go. I am sure there are amps that can bring out it's total best but it will become an exercises too expensive for me. On the other hand, I could have lived with W/Puppy 7 which is not as perfect as Sasha but is more easy to bring out it's best. |
I've owned Mirage M1s, Devore Fidelity, Audio Physics, Artemis EOS, Sophia 2s & 3s and now Sashas. What I love and hate about Sashas is every component change can be easily heard and sometimes the change is dramatic. I like to learn in this hobby and my recent experience with CD players reminds me that the source has a significant impact on the sound of speakers. I auditioned a CD player that made my "system" super bright, diffused, and made me not want to listen. The CD player I like so far is a 10 year old Metronome CDV2 Signature and my system sounds very smooth. I'm replacing a Apollo-R. I submit that when you get to the level of Sashas, every component impacts the sound; therefore synergy becomes more important than the speakers. |
Ergady : "With my WP's if everything was just so, including the recording, they were absolutely fantastic. But, ultimately I decided that they emphasized flaws to the detriment of my musical enjoyment."
____________________________________________________________________
Used to own WP7s, recalled how they were sounding exceptionally good when driven by Jadis pre/power/DAC+Siltech cabling. IME, they do need the typically full, lush sounding gears in front to make sing, which helps tame their inherently rather prominent upper-mid/high.
*This was what Wilson has been working to improve upon I believe. And to a certain extent, was quite successful with the Sasha, ie.trading a little of utmost presence for musicality. I've heard, this is now pushed even further in Alexia and XLF with their new silk dome tweeters. |
Wilson owners have to have the resources to correct any and all anomalies in their room and equipement in order to get the best results. David Wilson was a recording engineer and his entry into home audio came as a result of developing studio monitors (the WATT) that laid everything bare. many at the time felt that he had come upon a new level of transparency that would let at least certain types of recorded music sound "live". consider however the deadness of a studio environment in playing back tapes. now consider the room you're going to put a pair of watt/puppies into...
I have a Wilson Audiophile CD i particularly like of organ music. my whole system seems to snap into focus and come to attention when listening to this recording, and "my speakers" even start to resemble the "Wilson Sound".
Like i said, David Wilson, engineer. the effect is just uncanny. |
Reading through this thread really brought back memories for me. Comments about how Wilson's, in this case the Sasha, require careful placement/tube amps/just the right cables/room treatment, etc., in order to sound good. These are identical to what owners have been saying about WP's for years.
With my WP's if everything was just so, including the recording, they were absolutely fantastic. But, ultimately I decided that they emphasized flaws to the detriment of my musical enjoyment. |
There are many solid state amps that sound great with Sashas. I do not agree that they have to be super expensive - Cary SA-200.2, which costs $4000, sounds absolutely amazing with Sashas.
The key is to get an amp that sounds smooth. It doesn't have to be a tube amp, although tube amps in general sound smoother than SS ones. The Sashas tweeter is so revealing, that it will let you instantly know about any problems upstream. Get everything right (which includes the front end) and there are a few speakers, irrespective of price, that will sound better. |
I have been about 6 times at clients with Wilson Audio speakers. they had one thing in common. They had a lot of acoustic problems. Some music you even could not play. They say Wilson make very fast speakers in respons. To be honest I don't think so. Wenn timing is better with speakers you get less acoustic problems. I sold my Pass Labs XA100.5 to a client with Puppy 7 speakers. To be honest it was quite good. Most times I listend to Wilson speakers I would not even want them for free in my room. Because I prefer en deeper and wider stage first. And second instruments and voices need to be extreemly sharp focussed and in the right proportion. This is a part were Wilson is not as it's best. With many amps Wilson speakers sound lean and far from musical. And yess then you need tube to make it sound acceptable. |
I have never been a Wilson fan, but had a powerful lesson why recently at a small show in England. I entered the room and the Sashas were being driven by a large Krell stereo amp, I am not sure which. Brittle, edgy, hard and quite unpleasant sound. I was just about to run out screaming, when the amp was changed to an Audio research reference 150. What a difference, all the detail but smooth, fast, great soundstage, quite delightful. I believe Wilson's are voiced on ARC amps.
Thinking about it, I have always heard Wilson speakers on SS amps. My conclusion, they need tubes and maybe ARC are the best choice. |
Where do you get that figure? |
Looks like the trading price of Sasha has been pushed down to 15k and dropping fast? |
I got the price from a British forum which started talking about the Alexia and went on to denounce 200,000 pound speakers. Apparently the topic had swiched to the Alexandria without making the transision clear. Everyone went on talking as if they were still talking about the Alexia and I couldn't get a price on them from the Wilson web site so I assumed that they were that expensive. $50,000 still seems high but not totally out of reason. When there are 127 speakers listing for over $100,000 out there I will believe just about any price; even the $6,950,000 solid gold ones. |
Stanwal,
I couldn't agree more with your comments about electronics. My Densen B-350s mono-amps were fantastic with Sophia 3s, but struggle a little with the Sasha's.
Mechans,
I think you would be surprised by how many own expensive speakers without electronics to match. I love my Densen's but know there are several amps that would get more out of the Sasha's. I've been enjoying this hobby for 20 years. I have traded my way up and purchased what I hope is my last speaker. In time I will upgrade my source and add room treatment. |
