Nick_sr, Great post and if I may say, you never have to qualify your thoughts with a preface on your citizenry. Canada, America, whatever, we're all people and we're entitled to our beliefs. :-) What you touched on, with the tragedy of the train laden with 50,000 gallons of oil, parallels what I mentioned earlier, namely the result of privatization. Since Reagan and Thatcher, we've been told to hate ourselves through our governments and that the private sector is the solution. Deregulation has led to banking crisis, industrial disasters (remember Texas?), food poisoning, increases in blue collar worker deaths (when they can find a job), outsourcing of jobs, mercenary armies, and intelligence gathering, and look how well it's all turned out. How far do we have to lower the bar before we realize we've been hoodwinked? We have to opt out of the sharing of personal information but back in the '70s it was illegal to even consider it. A piece of paper denoting a company has more rights than the average citizen and none of the criminal liability. When was the last time you heard of a company getting the death sentence, do time in prison, or get a pap smear or colonoscopy? That train company will just get a fine and keep on keeping on. The lions share of intelligence gathering that the CIA and NSA conduct is of the commercial variety, not the citizen variety. Yes, they can and do prevent terrorism and keep the bad guys in check, but they also share our personal info for commercial and marketing purposes and to interfere with our rights. The people who work for the privateers who now do the watching are former NSA and CIA spooks who still have connections. Recently, Coca Cola was at odds with PETA and a former spook offered to go get the government folder on PETA for Coke to use. Great system, huh? All the best, Nonoise |
****you never have to qualify your thoughts with a preface on your citizenry. Canada, America, whatever, we're all people and we're entitled to our beliefs. :-)******* Canadians, and others, like our 'friends in the EU' who live and prosper behind the shield provided by the American taxpayer, thru the might of the US military, should consider this, when commenting on American policy. I respect him for stating his Nationality. It was the proper thing to do. Cheers |
Zenblaster, Yes, absolutely. I just feel it shouldn't be any kind of a barrier when it comes to expressing oneself. The last time I looked this is a free country. Our beliefs extend to everyone on this planet, otherwise, we're just become the biggest gang around with a xenophobic chip on our shoulder. As for Obama's fortune resting on deregulation, I see it as a parallel to what's going on and not a contributing factor. All the best, Nonoise |
I have mixed feelings about a political thread like this being on Audiogon, but I have to admit I’ve enjoyed reading every one of the comments posted here. I also enjoyed reading the NY Times editorial that was published soon after the Snowden story broke: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/12/opinion/surveillance-a-threat-to-democracy.html?ref=opinion |
First let me say, that my disclosure of my citizenship was merely to make it evident that I had much different viewpoint than most of the participants in the discussion, nothing more nothing less. Now @rok2id, what, really? Canadians, and others, like our 'friends in the EU' who live and prosper behind the shield provided by the American taxpayer, thru the might of the US military, should consider this, when commenting on American policy. The Canadians fought alongside the US in Afghanistan as well as many other conflicts. Granted we did not support you in Iraq, but then again you never did find the Saddam's infamous WMDs, so I think it is only fair and just that the US taxpayer pick up the bill for that one. Now I may not have been alive during WWii but I have enough of a history education to know that the war was one in no small part thanks to the brave and valiant efforts of the Canadian army. Please remember Canada is 1/10 the size of the US in terms of population, I think we have contributed our fair share for preserving and maintaining our Mutual freedom. We continue to contribute more than our share not only militarily but also in musicians, actors, producers and great audio companies, not to mention Tim Horton's coffee (which IMO really stinks) and last but not least Hockey players. |
Nick_sr: All of your comments about Canada's contributions are true. I was mainly speaking of the post cold war world. In the face of the Soviet and German threats, all the players pretty much stayed in line. Canada made great contributions and sacrifices in both world wars. The raid at Dieppe helped ensure the success at Normandy. I did notice that you mentioned the Iraqi war and the WMDs. That's picking and choosing. They didn't KNOW about the WMDs before the war. Cheers |
Mail from a former US Senator: "Mr. Snowden, Provided you have not leaked information that would put in harms way any intelligence agent, I believe you have done the right thing in exposing what I regard as massive violation of the United States Constitution. Having served in the United States Senate for twelve years as a member of the Foreign Relations Committee, the Armed Services Committee and the Judiciary Committee, I think I have a good grounding to reach my conclusion. I wish you well in your efforts to secure asylum and encourage you to persevere. Kindly acknowledge this message, so that I will know it reached you. Regards, Gordon J. Humphrey Former United States Senator New Hampshire" |
Yes, a great read. Just now, on the news, polls show that 2/3 of Americans see Snowden as a whistleblower and only 1/4 as a traitor. They even spoke of the difficulties the government said it would have with a jury who would see him as innocent and doing his civic duty. When you have NSA head Comey perjure himself (a felony) before congress about the extent of surveillance, that is a bell that cannot be unrung. Nothing will happen to him and the public can see that for what it is. Add to that the fact that Snowden had released everything he had when back in Hong Kong and that it's the Guardian newspaper that is releasing the stories. Snowden has nothing more to add to the mix. Every story the Guardian releases is vetted by the U.S government. Granted, they say all info is of the "double secret probation" variety so the Guardian carefully vets the stories before releasing them. No one has been harmed but there is a lot of shame and embarrassment to go around for everyone. I'd like to believe that we, Americans, are mature enough to be told, informed, and advised of what is going on and can make up our own minds. I can handle it, can you? One more thing as long as I'm here. I did a little research and it turns out that the Supreme Court has never held telephone conversations to the same standard as written correspondence, as written in our constitution. As far back as the early teens of last century, the courts have always held that our phone conversations are up for grabs when it concerns the government. Electronic surveillance has always been given broad latitude and when looked at it with a historical context, they're not living up to the spirit of the law but they are legally skirting the boundaries of it. All the best, Nonoise |
Good read on that NYTs article and nice to hear what a former Senator from normal times would say and think. 2/3 of Americans polled fell that Snowden is a whistleblower and only 1/4 feel he's a traitor. The government feels that any potential juror will see him as innocent and that he just did his civic duty. Snowden has already given everything he had when in Hong Kong and it's The Guardian that's releasing the stories. Stories that are vetted with the U.S. government before release. Granted, everything is classified in the "double secret probation" category so the Guardian is carefully screening all releases and so far all that's happened is that there's a lot of shamed and embarrassed people out there. Comey testified for the NSA and perjured himself (a felony) before congress and nothing is going to happen to him. Hmmm. If one looks back through history, since the advent of the phone, the Supreme Court has always sided with the government and allowed wiretapping for whatever reason they could come up with. This is nothing new. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/07/16/1214827/-Why-the-Fourth-Amendment-Sucks-And-Doesn-t-Prevent-Mass-Electronic-Surveillance-A-Factual-History All the best, Nonoise |
i watched a tv show last night hosted by john stossel--a libertarian. he had several guests who provided an argument that the us is heading in the direction of the roman empire. i agree with some of the other comments, that the US should avoid foreign entanglements. i think Jefferson and others warned against such endeavors. as to snowden, informing zus citizens about unconstitutional activities of the govt is a good thing. don't know if he leaked any "secret information". as for spying, the US is not alone in such an activity--other countries spy on us, e.g., China, Russia, etc. . |
Mrtennis, Stossel provides a unique perspective that you won't often find in today's media. Being a Liberterian, my views are much aligned with Mr. Stossel although I keep an open mind about every issue and try not to let politics influence the outcomes of my thoughts on those issues. Several stories have been written on comparisons of the US history and that of the Roman Empire. The playing field is too inadequate to make any reasonable comparison. The world is much too different. Things happen much faster. Snowden is not and has never been a spy. He was employed as an intelligence contractor and has become a human rights whistleblower, a concerned citizen. Only when his safety was compromised did he flee. If he didn't leave when he did, we never would have heard the name Snowden, he would have been locked up so deep in Guantanamo you would not have heard from him again. I'll rep at an earlier post, Snowden is a hero. I hope he lives to tell the truth. p.s. his odds for living increased greatly when he flew to Hong Kong. |
Csontos, I don't know what you are questioning but your last post was one of the craziest I've read. If your not willing to start with facts the rest is noise. Zen,okay, but in the meantime, how long are you willing to wait for the facts? History waits for someone to write it but it doesn't know who it is until it happensHistory is the factual recording of past events. |
To have no stand on politics is political by its very nature. No one sits idly by and observes. We all participate in one way or another. There is no neutral party or affiliation. There's an old adage that goes something like: The greatest trick the devil ever did was to convince folk that he doesn't exist. Taking it one step further, we've all been admonished that politics should never be discussed. What a coup to those who actively conspire against and rob us! Politics is behind everything. It's at the very heart of our nation. We all either participate or simply give in with our heads in the sand. The Greeks had a word to describe those who refused to participate when their turn came up: IDIOTA. All the best, Nonoise |
