Another new DAC: Audio Mirror

I think you missed the larger point.  Perhaps read the post again as when all the dacs sound very good it often comes down to system synergy and sonic preferences.  

@vassils

I understand your post but I completely disagree. What we count on from honest reviewers is to report their findings honestly.

I DO NOT trust anyone's memory of how a $25,000 dac sounded last year at a show to a $2,500 dac recently experienced in their system. If, however, the reviewer prefers the sound of a $2,500 dac to a $25,000 dac and BOTH were compared side by side over a period of time in the exact same system, that is EXACTLY what we are all looking for.

If I ever found out that a reviewer chose to withhold that opinion because he/she was afraid they might affect someone's sales then that reviewer would be scratched off my credibility list. YMMV

This is still one of the better threads...

I recently upgraded my speakers, swapped an integrated for a preamp & power amp and swapped a SONOS Connect for a $3K streamer & DAC. 
All a major upgrade. For sure. But when you directly compare costs and what your ear is actually measuring you discover this is all more complicated than you first thought. Some music sounds so much better and some sounds just different and some not so great recordings actually sound worse. 

Yes, great post. The AM tubadour is addictive, a great addition to my system for all the reasons terry mentioned. 

Great post.  Thank you.  

Teary
IT would be helpful if you specified which dacs you were referring to....

I think you need to understand that there is a difference between a professional reviewer and just a forum member like you and me. 

A professional reviewer needs to be extremely careful when making statements that he liked the AM DAC more than a $25,000 DAC (let's call it DAC X). 

People have different tastes for everything. Take wine for example. I may like one type of wine best, and you may like something completely different. That does not mean that my wine is better than yours or yours is better than mine.

Same thing with DACs. Terry liked the AM DAC much more than anything else he has tried. And he said he has tried many. This is how his review started. Read the first two sentences. The second sentence says:

"They ranged in price from $1,200 up to $25,000, and came from such luminaries as Playback Design, Ensemble, Accustic Arts, Eximus, Esoteric, dCS, PS Audio, MSB, Lab 12, and Mhdt Labs, to mention a few."

I like the AM much more than many other DACs too. But that does not mean it is a DAC for everyone's taste. There will be people who would not like the AM DAC, and that is fine. 

But think about this - if Terry writes more specifically and says that he compared the $25,000 DAC X with the $2,500 AM DAC, and the AM was much better... well, who is going to buy or even consider DAC X for $25K? That would be an unnecessary reputation damage for DAC X. And just like my wine and your wine, DAC X might be (and probably is) perfect for someone else. 

Unlike people like me and you, Terry and other reviewers have to be careful what they are saying. There is a reason they compare products from the same class and not with devices ten times the price of the product they review. But Terry was nice enough to send a message out there. And we need to read between the lines. What I read between the lines is that Terry found the AM DAC to be very special, he liked it a lot, and for the relatively inexpensive price in today's hifi market it should be something that people consider auditioning. 

Ultimately, it is all about synergy and personal taste, and the only way to know if it is for you or not is to put one in your system and try it for yourself. But be careful, because it is addictive :). 

Teary
IT would be helpful if you specified which dacs you were referring to....

I have a heavily modified Pagoda, so I would imagine there are many similarities between my DAC and your Orchid. I am very interested in your comparison because the Tubedour is high on my list to try.

Oz

Just wanted to say I currently have a tricked out grannyring Orchid.... and next week I’ll have a AM III SE. so I’ll be able to compare them directly and let you know my thoughts

stay tuned 

@steakster  interesting possibility there with a 12au7 to 6922 adapter. I also thought about 6sn7 to 6922 adapters, but the tubes are place horizontally in the chassis, so there won’t be room for 6sn7s in there without being a bit creative. But the 12au7 with adapter may work! I already use 12au7s with my preamp, and have a few to play with... 

Nice review teajay!Glad to see this dac emerging from under the radar and getting some press.

Here ya go. Thanks teajay 
http://v2.stereotimes.com/post/audio-mirror-tubadour-iii-se-nos-tube-dac-by-terry-london/

Hey....How come i cant find it ?...i keep getting The stereo times...any help out there...Please and thank you!
Thank you for the link...Love Peace and Audio grease!!!

Hey facten,

As I mentioned in the review I have had many DACs that cost at least double the amount of the Audio Mirror piece in my system for review and the SE III out performed them in two key areas.  1) Spatial qualities like image palpability, air around each player, and a sense of space in the soundstage was superior compared to the other DACs.  2) Beautiful tonality, timbres, and colors that were more intense and real sounding to my ear then the other DACs.  

The Tubadour III SE presents a relaxing/flowing experience of the music compared to some of the other DACs that sounded very detailed, yet never let me connect with the music. 

@teajay

From the review ".... will out-perform many DACs that cost tremendous amounts more on the market today. "
Can you provide some specific insights on which DACs and in what areas the Tubadour SE will outperform them? The perspective would be helpful.

Very positive review teajay.

Side note about Audio Mirror: I don't have the DAC, but do have the 45 Watt SET amps, and they are powerful, marvelous amps and Vlad B has provided me with top-notch service for years. He is a solid pro and gentleman.

@teajay Thanks for the great review TJ, and I agree with everything you mention in it... I love my Tubadour 3, and with the excellent service from Vlad, this DAC should be on anyone's short list of DACs to audition.  I also love the fact that you can "flavor" it to your specific tastes with rolling in any 6922 based pair of tubes into it.... 6922/7308/6DJ8s have such a variety of sonic flavors... 

Hey Everybody,

My review on the Stereo Times website just went up this morning.  It shares all the details why I gave it a very big "thumbs up" and what it did in my system to earn this praise from me.

Hope you enjoy reading it.

Looking forward to it @teajay 

Hey everybody,

Just submitted my review on the III SE for Stereo Times website.  I'll let you all know when it will be published.  It was a fun review to do because its a great product!

I just got this DAC the other day. Sounds very nice so far. Here is a little video I made showing it. https://youtu.be/wGURiUTsGXo

Super easy, but you have to remove the top panel. I keep my T3 covered with the top panel, but not screwed down.

Interesting about the ifi 
Is it easy to replace the tubes in the mirror dac ?

Also, if you are feeling stressed about tube life, you could consider the ifi idsd pro. I preferred the audio mirror to it, but did enjoy the ifi as well. It has the option to run either tube-based or solid state output stages, so you could go to SS when not doing critical listening.

@gryphongryph I also use mine as part of the television/ps4 system. Fortunately, the replacement tubes are cheap and plentiful. I wouldn't (and don't) stress about it.

@gryphongryph 

Don't know what you read or are expecting , but here's what they say on the Audio Mirror website

"Expected tube life for 5977 subminiature tubes is  >5000 hrs."

I was really interested in this Dac until I read somewhere that the tubes don’t last long, I planned to use the Dac with my tv as well as my Roon setup.
How many hours of tube life can one expect from this Dac? Even if I was not using it with my tv, I still listen for many hours at a time, often music is playing all weekend and week nights.

Thank you teajay. I did buy a backup set of tubes that were already soldered to an adapter. 

I bought some 5977 tubes on Ebay even before I received my dac. I didn’t realizing what I was getting into with the bare tubes.

Thanks teajay

Vlad has, builds sets of the 5977 tubes to just plug-in for replacement if needed. I actually asked him to send me a pair so I could experiment with other gear that uses 6922’s because of how terrific these mini tubes perform in the DAC.

" It looks like the tubes don't have pins in the glass, just the bare wire sticking out, and need to be soldered to an adapter."

When the 5977 tube needs changing does AM provide the tube/adapter , and/or is there an upfront option to buy a backup tube/adapter? 

I've tried several ECC88 tubes.They all sound good to me,just different from each other.One thing they have in common is there is a wider and taller soundstage.

For my upcoming review for The Stereo Times website I went through extensive tube rolling with excellent NOS tubes to see If the Tubadour III SE performance could be enhanced, not just changed, to a higher level.  Well, Vlad was correct, the DAC performs at it's optimum level with the 5977, which for his taste sounded the best.  He was right!

Has anyone had to replace the tubes in your Tubadour dac?

It looks like the tubes don't have pins in the glass, just the bare wire sticking out, and need to be soldered to an adapter. I know other tubes can be used but gain goes up and sound quality, according to some, takes a hit. Seems like the original 5977 subminiature tubes are probably the best.

Any thoughts?

HAHA...well done vassils...Like you I was one of the first to Jump on Vlads dac and had it upgraded to a different SE status...with the new power supply to the usb but went with the miflex Caps...and all the rest of the goodies...all i can say after owning the latest Yiggy 2 and the Holo Audio – Spring DAC – Level 3 / KTE...I would not ever go back to those very good Dacs...thats how much regard i have for Vlads SE Dac!...so anlog....detailed..ect..ect...TRUTH!!

One of the reasons the new SE Audio Mirror DAC sounds so good is because it is naturally deep cryogenically treated during the winter months in Minnesota. I've heard rumors that each DAC spends 24 hours outside in the deep snow in -40 before it gets shipped to its customer. And if there are several hot days (i.e. -15F) in a row, shipments get delayed. 

I've had my Tubadour III for about 10 months. It has all the upgrades/updates of the SE except the new feet. It took me probably a few months to fully appreciate how good it really sounds. I think the break in took a very long time. I didn't pay attention to how many hours or how long it took. Now I don't even obsess about it. I just sit back and listen to the music. It's a great DAC that doesn't break the bank. Well done!

This DAC has really taken off.
If it had a volume control I'd be all over it.

Always nice to hear more positive outcomes for a dac you own. Thanks for the report @teajay

Just wanted to share that another guest brought over his highly regarded DAC, retails for around 12K to compare to the AM 3 SE.  He was some what shocked how much more musical and engaging the Audio Mirror piece was then his DAC.

As grannyring has stated system synergy and personal taste must always be taken into account when trying to come to a conclusion about the performance of any piece of gear.  However, its pretty clear to me that the Audio Mirror is a very special DAC that offers so much at a very reasonable price.

What exact parts were used in the upgraded Orchid? Very important as I know from experience a specific recipe works best for the type of sound you and many like. Did it have the SR Orange fuse? Was the Amber 3 newer or fully broken in with at least 300 hours of play time? The Amber needs at least 250 hours to come into its own.  Also, tube rolling and an SR Orange fuse do wonders for this dac.   Just the one 12au7 needs attention.  It takes time and a little attention to details to make the Amber really sing beautifully. 

Lastly,  in addition to these questions one must also consider system synergy and subjective preferences. No doubt these play a substantial role in the dac one would prefer.  

What exact parts were used in the upgraded Orchid? Very important as I know from experience a specific recipe works best for the type of sound you and many like. Did it have the SR Orange fuse? Was the Amber 3 newer or fully broken in with at least 300 hours of play time? The Amber needs at least 250 hours to come into its own.  Also, tube rolling and an SR Orange fuse do wonders for this dac.   Just the one 12au7 needs attention.  It takes time and a little attention to details to make the Amber really sing beautifully. 

Lastly,  in addition to these questions one must also consider system synergy and subjective preferences. No doubt these play a substantial role in the dac one would prefer.  

@teajay Obviously impressions are always heavily system dependent, but it's still good to have people agree with you.  Glad to read that we heard things similarly... looking forward to reading the full AM-T3 SE review.

Thanks TJ.  All of the hubbub about the AM, Amber, and Orchid has made for fascinating reading.   Makes me want all three.

I want to concur with the conclusions of fellow poster Cal3713 regarding that the AM 3 SE has the most beautiful liquidity and "ease" that allows you to relax into the music.  In the past two weeks I have compared the AM 3 SE to my standard Orchid, a modified Orchid, and Lamp Amber 3, and across the board I found, in the context of my system, the Audio Mirror to perform at a higher musical level.

I will be writing my formal review for Stereo Times in the next few weeks that will get into all the details regarding Vlad's wonderful music making DAC.

@musichead the best cable I've found between the AM and CXC is a Silnote Morpheus lll.The separation between the instruments and vocals,tone,timbre,and lack of glare is really excellent.I've tried quite a few in the past six months and it is head and shoulders above the rest.Give it a try.

just a little thought about the AM3 SE Dac and the Cambridge CXC transport...Well i recently changed Transports from the CXC to The Audiolab 6000cdt transport and let me tell you the difference was not SMALL!...The Audiolab was BETTER in every thing we value..Bass...Treble...Huge soundstage..The list goes on,!,,,and sold my CXC and would not want it back..and the audiolab and the AM3 SE are a match made in audio Nivana!...TRUTH! .....As always in audio and LIFE YMMV!!