@b_limo
The big silver ovals result in more upper end detail. I had silvers in another brand before going back to AP OCC copper "Crystal RCA interconnects fwiw.
For grins, every once in a while I’ll swap back to other various OFC copper ICs in higher grades of other brands (on demo-loan) and OFC have grain, not as smooth, not as expansive in the sound stage as the OCC copper crystals. Also, noticed once they sat in place for a while the OCC Crystals seem to have an element of lower micro dynamics in the bass region. It’s very noticeable when using the tube mono block amplifiers too. If I swap back to OFC, that ultra low bass register tends to disappear. An added benefit I was not expecting with AP oval design OCC Crystal copper interconnects
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@decooney , good to hear that you still have them and still like them! I almost sold mine just to get an 8 foot pair instead of 6 feet. I’ve also considered trying the big silver ovals but haven’t done so yet.
I did get some solo crystal xlr cables but my current amp doesn’t have xlr input. The nice thing about Analysis Plus is you can send any of your cables in and get them reterminated. I’m going to get my 2.0m pair of xlr’s converted to a 1.0m xlr and a 1.0m rca.
Anyhow, yeah, these cables are awesome. My system has gotten leaps and bounds better since I posted this and the AP solo crystals aren’t going anywhere. |
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The sweet secret is in the cross section: 4 times #11 AWG = 1 times #5 AWG.
But it is just part of the story. the other part is:
1. Your Amp's DF figure
2. The length.
I made a pair of 3m long, #0 AWG cable set for $1,000 US.
Their price is a bit sharp (for new).
However, pass me the missing data and I'll tell you what AWG is required.
Yes, speaker cables do make a difference. The big once, are mostly due to very poor choices of picking the previous one.
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Analysis Plus"Crystal OCC":
16 months later, the AP Crystal Solo RCA interconnects definitely smoothed out and filled out. A very long settling in period. Patience is absolutely required for these.
Former founder/owner Mark Markel of Analysis Plus (now passed on) was spot on. He told me it would take 200-300hrs to finally settle. Recently compared to other very well known IC cables at 3x the price since too, keeping the AP Crystals!
Can hear things waaaay out there, at LOW volume too. Top end is there, smooth, no loss of detail, and bottom end really starts coming in after long burn in time. Thanks to Mark up there, wherever you are. :) |
@b_limo Thanks for keeping us posted on your experience with them! I’ve been following the thread and its awesome to see you guys having the same results as me. I absolutely love these cables.. @b_limo On demo, I intermixed some other brand TOTL interconnects with AP Crystal Solos last month with moderate success. Won’t mention the brand, but highly respected but 2-3x the price of the APs, and a totally different design. Returned them. It kinda helped me to see staying with similar designs may be recommended. I then decided to intermix same-brand AP Crystal Solo interconnects with the two models below the Crystal Solos (first the AP purple Oval One and then the black/yellow Copper Oval-In Micro) interconnects with some interesting and telling results. I found if you place the Crystal Solo (OCC) interconnects upstream at your source (CD, DAC/Streamer or high end Tuner [FIRST in line]; you still retain a nice clear sound and larger and more open soundstage is mostly retained when you place the next downstream set (AP Oval One or AP Oval-In Copper Micros) between the preamplifier and amplifier(s), it essentially adds their signature about 50% into the results. The "blend" makes for another option and it does change the sound. I have confirmed using the Crystal Solos (OCC copper Oval-in Micro, oval design) throughout the system end-to-end are by far the most pure, clear, covering the top end and bottom end frequencies with no rounding of the signal. When you intermix the AP Oval-In Copper Micro, it retains clarity with a bit more mid-bass and a slight rounding of the high-frequency (OFC copper, same oval design), slightly more grainy sounding but also sounds a bit fuller too, maybe a slight bass hump in the midrange, not bad - just different. Intermixing the lower version Oval One is a waste. Too grainy, downgrades the end result, not worth it to pair up with the higher cost OCC Crystal Solos. The Copper Oval-In Micros is a decent end-to-end cable to use for the $, yet it’s definitely not as clear and smooth with "no grain" like the Solo Crystals are. An interesting test. |
As a reverse upgrade test, I revisited prior lower version interconnects from AP and other brands. The difference is not subtle in comparison IF the rest of the system is up to par to take advantage of the AP Crystal Solo cables. Now I'm finding other cables I formerly used and tested to be closed in, having less texture and less enjoyable tone. Also, while I can't be certain, with more time on these cables they really do seem to be settling in and it's not me just getting use to the sound. |
Last update and post on AP "Crystal" OCC interconnects and lesson’s learned.
Heads up, these specific OCC copper cables may cause you to completely re-evaluate other pieces of your gear after 60 days of use, burn-in, and using these ICs end-to-end now throughout my entire two channel audio system.
Yes, the Analysis Plus Crystal Solos open up pandoras box. Both good and bad come with them, whatever the source and recording is.
These Crystal Sol IC cables and the partner Crystal Digi Coax cable from AP forced me to go back and completely re-evaluate and re-tube my tube preamp and the re-tube the input tubes on my mono tube amplifiers.
Once opening the floodgates with the crystal (OCC copper) AP interconnect cables, watch out what you ask for as it all comes through with larger sound. Sure, burn in helps over time but it does not tame or mask any garbage recordings coming through like some thick OFC copper cables can do. These cables do what they are supposed to do, if you let them. Takes patience. Can be rewarding once you figure out how all the different pieces are working together (good or bad) end-to-end from source>cables>audio components>speaker cables>speakers.
Solution:
Re-tubed preamp with more lush tubes.
Re-tubed monoblock amps with more lush input tubes.
Result:
No edge, no harshness, larger soundstage, more musical midrange, no loss of upper end detail - yes, it’s possible. Now I can listen to most everything streamed (fair to good recordings) in Redbook CD lossless format. And, of course any great recording on CD or Streaming sounds great all of the time. Piano sounds like piano. Guitar sounds like guitars should. Voices are improved and it catches you by surprise some times when running these end-to-end throughout your system. |
Dave from Zenwave sent me several ics and a digital cable to try.Surprisingly his two top of the line cables were not a good fit at all.Others have reported how detailed and reference quality they are so I had great expectations.I loved the D1 which is the entry level ic,lush and beautiful.The DSR (mid level) was outstanding to my ears,tone,timbre,detail and really dimensional.So real at times like I could reach out and touch the musicians.That paired with the digital cable was clearly the best fit.Worked really well with the AP speaker cables and AP ics.
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@jtcf
@decooney you have a whole loom now!I might end up with one too.I’m somewhat of a cable junkie and am still trying some different ics.But the speaker cables are staying forever.Somehow the Analysis ics keep finding their way back between the pre and amp,just a perfect fit apparently.But the digital cable and the ic between dac and pre I continue to "try just one more and I promise to quit" .Right.
The speaker cables are just so revealing it’s interesting to hear how each change is better/worse.I’ll write a little more about that later. I gotta say, all priors with OFC copper and before I tried AP cables I could mix and match other cables and levels and achieve something to stick with for a while and leave it alone. Once I tried the OCC copper with AP interconnects and started moving them around within my system, something really different occurred. Puzzling, actually. Then I had to try a second pair, and yes closing with the full loop with AP Crystal Digi Coax. The OCC oval interconnect result is smoothness of copper and the detail of silver over copper blended together with a specific un-smeared type of sound top to bottom. Clear and smooth, not sure how else to describe it. Time will tell if the cables actually change or smooth out any more with long term use. We will see... |
@decooney you have a whole loom now!I might end up with one too.I'm somewhat of a cable junkie and am still trying some different ics.But the speaker cables are staying forever.Somehow the Analysis ics keep finding their way back between the pre and amp,just a perfect fit apparently.But the digital cable and the ic between dac and pre I continue to "try just one more and I promise to quit" .Right.
The speaker cables are just so revealing it's interesting to hear how each change is better/worse.I'll write a little more about that later. |
@b_limo
hi jack away! I‘m loving hearing about your tweaks. I’m learning alot from your journaling and I’m sure others are / will as well. I’ve been asking myself similar questions and your feedback is hugely appreciated! Thanks for the continual updating fellas 👍. Seriously, it is helpful and not going unnoticed.
Thanks for listing all of your equipment as well. It helps everyone reading this to know exactly where you are coming from. My amp/pre, dac (Anthem I-225, Bluesound Node 2i) is pretty entry level yet I can hear the same results as you guys are hearing.
Whenever I had used to try to break down what percentage of your money goes where, I’d allot 10-15% for cables. I thought that amount was actually high. Now I’d say 20-35% should be spent. Also, if you can swing a bunch of these Solo Crystals, you’ll be done forever and every component (speakers, amps, dacs, pre’s) will benefit. I would love to have heard my favorite personal system I ever owned, with these in place. Tried again for the fourth time going back to decent former interconnects to check myself and hearing. No way, each time lasting about ten minutes immediately missing all sorts of things from my former cables when comparing to AP Crystal Solos [in my system]. After several listening sessions, there is more here to these particular AP crystal solo cables than I originally anticipated they would bring. For Bright sounding systems (not a good match, likely): If I had an overly bright solid state amplifier and super lean sounding speakers I’d stop here. These OCC cables are not passive EQ filters like some overly laid back heavy OFC copper cables. Unless you have poor hearing in upper frequencies, these might not fit well in some systems. For Smooth sounding systems (yes, can be a nice improvement): In a relatively smooth sounding system where the high frequencies are not overly accentuated, these cables can really shine - as the OCC copper and this design seems to bring forward everything. Most Surprising Discovery (comparing to softer OFC copper cables): #1 Sound stage increase (wide, tall, and deep), decay #2 Added separation of instruments, truly a new experience. #3 Added clarity to vocals, strings, detail, and some added texture. #4 Bass control and speed of bass was really kind of a surprise. Not mushy. #5 Deeper bass, not necessarily boomier. Lower bass detail comes from nowhere. It takes some getting use to at first if you are use to lower quality OFC cables or less. Sure, burn-in time, whatever...but the cables bring forth "more" of everything. Once I realized what was going on, really started liking them. Once acclimated its hard to go back to other cables :) Tube amp owners (note): You may find yourself revisiting your input tubes in preamps, DACs, input tubes on your amp(s). Once you hear what the interconnect cables offer when used end-to-end, it can trigger desires for further tuning to shape the tone as you will hear new things with capable gear, speakers. As for solid state amps/preamps, if it’s harsh - it’s going to expose it more. These cables are bitchen’ with really good tube pre/amps. Burn-in: Again, told 300hrs but I’m just enjoying the cables (as-is) for what they do now, willing to just listen and hoping they don’t change a lot, seem to be about the same at 200hrs for the past 50hrs, maybe just a micro detail smoother now after 150hrs. I did hear speaker cables take longer, maybe interconnects not quite 300hrs speaking with a few at mfg. |
I have two pairs of Solo Crystal Oval 8 speaker cables. One pair terminated with spades and one with bananas. One pair will remain in my system indefinitely because as of know these cables just work for me better than anything before. The other pair is available if anybody is interested. Both are 10FT long and in excellent condition. Please PM me if interested. |
@jtcf & @decooney
hi jack away! I‘m loving hearing about your tweaks. I’m learning alot from your journaling and I’m sure others are / will as well. I’ve been asking myself similar questions and your feedback is hugely appreciated! Thanks for the continual updating fellas 👍. Seriously, it is helpful and not going unnoticed.
Thanks for listing all of your equipment as well. It helps everyone reading this to know exactly where you are coming from. My amp/pre, dac (Anthem I-225, Bluesound Node 2i) is pretty entry level yet I can hear the same results as you guys are hearing.
Whenever I had used to try to break down what percentage of your money goes where, I’d allot 10-15% for cables. I thought that amount was actually high. Now I’d say 20-35% should be spent. Also, if you can swing a bunch of these Solo Crystals, you’ll be done forever and every component (speakers, amps, dacs, pre’s) will benefit. I would love to have heard my favorite personal system I ever owned, with these in place. |
I’m stoked that you all are having similar experiences with these cables! As funds allow, I’ll be adding more AP solo crystals to my rig!
Thanks for sharing such detailed experiences. I hope that we are able to sway some others since it seems like we are having similar opinions as to these cables sound signature. Detailed, natural / real sounding cables.
I recently added a bluesound node 2i and am using Audioquest Diamond Hyperlitz Rca interconnects. I must admit that it sounds good but is lacking in that natural tone and timbre. I’m hoping that the bluesound needs time to burn in and that by changing the powercord and adding some AP Solo Crystal interconnects, I’ll have better tone and texture. The AQ’s sound open and detailed but also somewhat digital. I’ll report back later when I get the AP’s and upgrade PC! |
Enjoy!
Formerly messing with silver cables I equated "open" sounding designs with more detailed results too. Its pretty neat how these OCC copper crystal solo cables can be open, larger sound stage, and yet still smooth with detail at the same time. It just works.
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re: BURN-IN up to ~300HRs
Straight from the horses mouth (the designer with various engineering and physics degrees and patents). He shared this with me today after my inquiry if all AP Crystal IC and Digital and Speaker cables take "300hrs" to burn in. He said this:
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Quote:
"I am sure there must be a difference but just about every reviewer has felt all cables take 300 hours to fully break-in"...
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I am using a pair of Solo Crystal Oval 8 speaker cables and I have to agree that these cables are just incredible. I’ve been in this crazy audio hobby for at least 40 - years and used many different cable brands, some expensive and some very affordable... This pair makes me very happy and I can only describe the sound as "real". Nothing stands out. The sound is just real and rich with a feeling of reality. BTW, I use them between the Pass 250.8 and Tekton Encore speakers. This might not be the "newest trend" in speaker cables out there but it is a proven design that works.
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[Keeping it an all AP cable thread]
Goal and Score >> AP crystal solo Digital Coax in the house! <<
Next / AP Digi Crystal Solo Coax?
After replacing the input tubes on my preamp with smoother ones, further realizing what the AP Crystal Solo interconnect cables can do - i thought to myself [and reading for two more weeks about cables, jitter, and how it’s not just zeroes and ones] "I wondered what more the crystal solo DIGITAL COAX could offer - if anything"? Skeptical but willing.
Results:
Tone and added "texture" is coming through now, like never before. Now detail comes through yet digital glare and top-end harshness is pretty much eliminated. Music kinda just flows now, effortlessly at lower volumes.
How?
Not sure how but it’s as if the weak link (closer to the source, early in the chain) was eliminated and now both pairs of AP Crystal Solo interconnects and now the AP Crystal Solo Coax are all working together as a complete chain end-to-end, source to DAC to preamp to amps. While I cannot explain how or why, it works, well - for whatever reason.
YRMV your results may vary.
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So decooney and I have been comparing notes and when I seemed to be stuck obsessing over wire he suggested trying different tubes again to banish the last traces of annoying glare.He was right.I needed to add some richnessBefore the AP scs Sofia 6SN7s worked great in my pre but adding them to the amp was way too lush.But as soon as I swapped in one Sofia in the middle with the two remaining Sylvainas flanking it - Damn! Just the slightest hint of glare(because I'm listening for it).Big sigh of relief.I really cannot stand glare or excessive sibilance.Both Ian Anderson and Joan Baez are sounding excellent as opposed to a referee whistle or a shrieking woman.Ok I'm exaggerating but those little things tend to make us audio fools crazy.Changing out wires and tubes for several months to feed the APs the best signal so they will feed the Tektons what they need to produce beautiful music.OCD:-)
Transport to Tubadour- Furutech digital cable
CableDyne PC, Audio Envy PC,tubes various
LTAMicroZ2- Audio Envy Prestige ic,Audio Envy PC,
Sofia Blue,Sylvania
Aric Audio Transcend amp -AP Crystal Solo ic
CableDyne PC,Sylvania,Sofia Blue,TS KT 150
AP Solo Crystal Oval 8 spc - Tekton Impact Monitors
Thank you b_limo for letting us hijack your thread for our journal.These speaker cables are so good and so revealing,well worth doing a little tweaking upstream.
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BURN-IN HYPE or REAL with AP cables ???
Not sure if I’m having one good or bad day with my ears either, but I could swear maybe these AP cables do tend to burn-in with more time. Is the recommended 300hrs of burn-in time the manufacturer for real, I don’t know, maybe so. They are finally starting to sound a little warmer with another 100hrs on them.
[Disregard] my former post about intermixing my Cardas and AP interconnects to achieve improved softer sound. It changed again... As things settled more past few weeks, I actually had to put the 2nd pair of AP Crystal Solo OCC interconnects back in the system. Its not nearly as lean now. No, its not just a matter of getting use to them. A quick swap back to other cables helps prove the differences and improvements over time.
Its changed enough that I’m going back and retrying different preamp tubes again, and the cables help to further show differences in tubes too.
As long as all gear is fully warmed up 1.5hrs+, the APs sound smoother than first 100hrs. |
Fun some days,maddening other days:-)
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@jtcf
...I have a basic understanding of how reflections and timing errors distort the digital signal so finding one that is a perfect match is yet another adventure.
----------------------- Okay, good to know. So let the experiment continue. I ordered a 1.5M coax AP Crystal Solo on a black friday sale. Not sure what to expect, but I’ve wanted to try this for a while completing the system with AP Crystal Solos. More than a few places I’ve read the shorter .5m and even 1.0m can produce more "reflection", bounce-back, and "glare" compared to a tad longer 1.5M. I did not believe it myself until trying it and comparing. So, I tested it with ICs on my DAC to pre first and truly did see a difference, like it more. So, I’ll try the same with my Arcam streamer to DAC next, and need 1.5M regardless keeping them apart. Guess I should not be too quick to let go of my Cardas lightning and other cables yet til’ I let this new cable run for a while. Last piece to complete the chain with all AP Crystal Solos. re: "timing". Speaking of timing, I was driving myself batty past few weeks after adding some Jensen PIO bypass caps to the DAC, paralleled over some Mundorf Silver Gold Oils as the base caps in the tube DAC. Even up to 100hrs of burn-in I kept hearing something almost like an added reverb / out of timing effect on some instruments on good tracks. Almost a reverb (1.25x repeat sound) and blurring or smearing effect at times. I really noticed the difference with my AP Crystal Solo cables, not so much with my Cardas interconnects which tend to smooth over a bit more. Finally gave up and removed the bypass caps. As soon as they were removed, the timing issue was completely GONE - back to normal, nice clean smooth signal, improved sound stage too. It was really odd, and never had played with or experienced notable timing issues much except for tweeter/woofer mis-alignments in my own custom speakers. While I've had okay success with other bypass caps, components, this was a first and a surprise to a few audio friends. Perhaps just an incompatibility between two different type caps. Trying the different AP cables has been a fun experiment, the Crystal Solos OCC copper version seems to be in it’s own lane if you like this type of sound, tone, sound stage changes - it’s unique. |
The GG cable is an xlr cable that I was using a few years ago when I had balanced connections.I put adapters on it and tried it just out of curiosity.Surprise,I like it!I did try the AP Crystal Solo((1 meter) along with a few others and I could hear slight differences but all were rather dull,veiled.Results may be better with 1.5 meters or even better with other xlr cables??Sometimes good things happen when fooling around with tweaks.
I have a basic understanding of how reflections and timing errors distort the digital signal so finding one that is a perfect match is yet another adventure.
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re: DIGITAL COAX RCA cable: ???
Some people praise this change while other's may not.
REQUEST:
Has anyone here tried or using the Analysis Plus Crystal Solo [DIGITAL COAX] cable in 1.0M or 1.5M in your rig? Any notable difference? |
Well here's my latest adventure.I've been trying this and that attempting to "feed" this system exactly the right combo of signals that will help it perform at it's best:-).Today it all fell together and I feel I'm 98%of the way there.It's leaning just a bit to the lean side,but is so transparent,detailed,and layered.Right now dac and pre are fed by Audio Envy Ocean Elite pcs.Transport and amp have CableDyne pcs.Ics are Audio Envy Prestige.The AE cables work much better together and compliment each other's strengths,and I know this after trying many configurations.The ics are all about the midrange and the pcs bring the high frequencies,bass,and dynamics.The Gabriel Gold Revelation digital cable.
The last piece of the puzzle was moving the High Fidelity MC-O.5 from the power conditioner to the duplex plug.Bam!The Analysis Plus scs in turn are sending beautiful music to the Tektons.Now to add just a drop of warmth by adding or subtracting just one thing.....
A tube,more HF power conditioning,one of the ZenWaves(still waiting).
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@jtcf 761 posts
11-09-2019 10:09pm
That is really interesting.I know that a too short digital cable is troublesome,but ics too?Every little thing really does matter even if it shouldn't.I'll be interested to hear what Rob says.I'm still waiting impatiently to demo other cables.The last piece of the puzzle I think. It might be more believable if there was a difference in version or connector types or different type internal wire used, but these are the same version cables and visually in every way, just 1.0M vs. 1.5M and slight age/use difference - that's it. My buddy ended up with a 2.0M pair of AP Crystal IC in a used system he purchased at an audio show. I remember the MFG factory guy just saying the liked the longer ICs better in that particular all tube system. While I've read it written many times over the years, many note "use longer ICs" and "shorter speaker cables", perhaps some truth to this with digital source components. It's extra noticeable on more inferior recordings played via high resolution streaming services through my tube DAC. Yes, tried many different tubes in my DAC, different preamp tubes, and nothing rid that upper midrange glare. Then swapping the 1.0M and 1.5M IC placement did at the DAC. Kinda having a hard time wrapping my mind around this one. |
That is really interesting.I know that a too short digital cable is troublesome,but ics too?Every little thing really does matter even if it shouldn't.I'll be interested to hear what Rob says.I'm still waiting impatiently to demo other cables.The last piece of the puzzle I think.
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Found the midrange "spike and glare" culprit with my new AP Crystal ICs.
Swapped my new 1.0M (200hrs) pair to my amps, and moved the longer 1.5M pair (400hrs) to my DAC. Fixed. Also the sound stage and voices stepped back a little too, not so forward now, picked up some upper detail (not harsh), with added lower bass weight too. Makes absolutely no sense, but it worked.
Difference?
The only difference between the two pairs is (.5M) length, 200hrs more use on the longer pair and they are one year older.
I did read once on another forum where folks were complaining they were hearing digital glare running too short of RCA ICs with DACs.
Not sure why, but the results were instantaneous for whatever reason... I plan to call Rob at AP to see if they made any changes to types of purity of OCC copper or soldering used as a guess.... both of the same pairs of cables are still in the same signal path, just arranged in a different order now. Strange.
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I feel like I'm so close now to getting things in balance.I pulled out some old cables from my audio junk box and tried them in different configurations to try and get a handle out where more warmth or leanness would be effective.Don't laugh too hard now,but yesterday a very good combination was WireWorld between Dac and Pre,M.A.C.copper between Pre and Amp (too smooth and warm),until a Gabriel Gold Revelation ic (remember those?) replaced the digital cable from transport to Dac.Then WOW!Texture,color,timbre were all outstanding.The GG was sort of whitish/bleached out in the upper mids though.If you're done laughing now....
I'm waiting for the ZenWave demos and hopefully one of those will work in place of the M.A.C. then maybe/ maybe not a new digital cable,and done!?
The tubes I've swapped in and out of the dac each sound good but different from each other,no real winners there.Amperex were sweet and transparent,Reflectors have excellent bass,GL euphonic,the original 5977 minis are detailed.
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jtcf754 posts11-02-2019 11:26am@jtcf +1 Relax and enjoy:) Exactly what I'm doing now.Hoping to be able to post with my winning combo soon too. Good to know. Curious to see what you come up with. If my system had most tubes that were super laid back, somewhat veiled over, and speakers that were not not revealing, I could probably make two pairs of the AP Crystal Solos in series work. Yes, I do lose some sound stage size and depth and micro detail when mixing in other non-AP Crystal cables for the 2nd pair. That is the drawback. Kinda bummed as the AP Crystal Solos do so many other things really well, like no other cable I've ever tried in any of my current or prior systems. However the right mix of AP crystals with other type ICs in the signal path can produce a more pleasing tone and musical lushness. I ran into a similar situation with running two pairs of "Clear" Cygnus type cables with Cardas on loan. The lower version cables like Parsec worked out much better in certain spots, only at the source. Not doubled up. Same situation here. Perhaps its just finding that "window" in each individuals setup and hearing sensitivity at certain frequencies. |
+1 Relax and enjoy:) Exactly what I'm doing now.Hoping to be able to post with my winning combo soon too.
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Conclusion:
Caving in. After trying several combos (over many years in different systems) I’ve concluded I cannot run two pairs of the exact same brand/type/model interconnects (in my system) from source to preamp to amps and enjoy the music. Intermixing CAN allow for the right amount of salt and pepper and spice.
Privately, a friend inside a well known manufacturer admitted this is something they realized can happen and now recommend people try it. Same goes for tubes as many leaned long before I did. Worth a try.
I just proved this as a viable option (in my system) in both directions, and people with symmetry obsessions can stop reading here, just kidding, kinda...
A) If I run two pairs of the AP Crystal Solos OCC RCAs, its too lean.
B) If i run two pairs of my Cardas it was too fat on older versions and too lean on newer versions.
C) INTERMIXING one AP Crystal Solo (OCC) pair and one Cardas Parsec pair works really well in my particular system. I have owned/tried many other Cardas models in the past.This led me to AP.
Choosing "C".
Your Mileage May Vary. Done listening to cables and compensating tube and cap changes for a while, now back to music. If you get stuck, give intermixing a try - it’s another viable option :)
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urbie19 I'm a fan of continuous cast wire also and used to have a loom of mid level HarmTech years ago in a different system.It's so interesting and at times frustrating how the exact same wire in different configurations can all sound different from each other.
This Analysis Plus Solo 8 is so revealing that any changes upstream are apparent.So we continue to make changes to find the perfect balance.Next up for me is demoing Zenwave cables (Neotech wire) and finding just the right tubes for the Dac(Tubadour).The Teo cables which I had high hopes for did not work out at all,not a good fit.Which is ok because it helped me to figure out at what juncture a cable or tube change is needed.
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I'm glad somebody's finally getting it. I've been trying to tell people over and over again that OCC single crystal wire is far superior then anything ofc. And anybody that spends 30-40 $50,000 for a piece of wire is a sucker as far as I'm concerned and you're getting taken to the cleaners by scammers. Harmonic Technology makes some of the best wire out there and it's not crazily priced like some of the other companies that are selling OCC single crystal wire. Neotech manufactures OCC wire and they're reasonably priced as well. |
jtcf,
got your msg and i'll post it here after 3+ weeks of burn in.
AP Solos Interconnects:
The AP Crystal Solo IC cables settled ever so slightly, and while they are a little smoother now, they still can be like focusing a closeup high definition camera right up close to someone's face on video. They do not filter out much like some other overly stranded copper cables can do. With the Crystal Solos, If you play nice smooth audio tracks, you hear nice smooth audio. If the content is grainy or edgy streamed tracks, what goes in comes out. What to do...
DAC Tube:
I went back to my DAC and pulled the tube originally on the edge of bright and transparent and replaced it with a much smoother and rich sounding tube to help remedy the situation. The improvement is a tad less detail to lose some of the grain, however at some loss of soundstage size and depth. A tradeoff I guess.
Preamp Tubes:
I pulled the new-production TS 6SN7 tubes and went back to NOS driver tubes and another new pair of input tubes for a different tone. This helped some and Its "clear" pun intended, once you add AP Crystal Solos, every other change in the chain becomes that much more evident - tube changes too! They let you hear it.
Changing the tube on the DAC helped the most. I'll put another few weeks on this configuration and reevaluate one last time.
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@jtcf seems so. Thx.
After these burn in a little more, I'll let them run for a bit (set them a aside a bit) and still have a pair of TJ Full Music 6SN7s coming a buddy talked me in to trying. He's using them with his new AP cables and his new DAC tube in his preamp. He now says his AP solos are keepers but had to tune the front end a bit more to smooth things out since "everything comes through" with the APs Crystal Solos on his system too.
Some people say cables don't make a difference. :) In a revealing system they sure do and can make it better or worse when garbage-in garbage out applies. |
@decooney sounds like progress is being made.Good! |
The AP Crystal Solo interconnect cables are a very nice pairing particularly when the synergy on the front end source is good. This is my conclusion. The AP Solos help it to sound greater when the right component match is achieved in order to take advantage of them.
UPDATE #4:
I’ve been running the new production re-issue Tung Sol 6SN7s in my tube preamp for the past three days solid. After some serious burn-in I like them, a LOT, and better than I thought I would. I’m not sure I’ll be so quick to put my vintage 6SN7s back in my preamp. There is a full triode effect coming through now, and the cables put it in focus for sure. The cables and tubes are staying put for a while. I find I'm not listening to components as much, and back to listening to music. A good sign. |
The Tung Sols 6SN7s are clear and a little dry to me also.I am able to use one for the input of my amp and it makes for a good balance with the other tubes.The 6622 gold lions were sounding really too lush in the dac so in went a pair of Amperex(not sure of the year) today.Aaaand the speakers literally disappeared!Finally!They lean a little to the dry side too,so I lost some texture, but damn the music sounded good.Just a drop of midrange warmth is missing.More tweaking....
The speaker cables continue to be amazing,allowing any changes upstream to be clearly heard.
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The AP Crystal Solos continue to reveal whatever is thrown at them.
This week I changed out vintage Sylvania 6SN7GT preamp tubes for new-production Tung-Sol tubes. A lot more burn-in required I gather. Nice and full sounding right off the bat. Clean but a bit dry and less texture in the first 10-20 hours. The AP Crystal Sol ICs do what they are suppose to do for sure. Hoping 80 more hours of burn-in will help. It’s worth a test I guess...maybe TJ Full Music next. |
jtcf10-13-2019 1:07pm
@decooney I swapped out the 5977 mini tubes in the DAC for a pair of GL 6922 and your friend was spot on.A big thanks to both of you.It made quite a difference with the higher gain tubes.The system practically breathed a sigh of relief.
@geoffkait from what I’ve read, different configurations filter noise differently.Makes sense but I really don’t know.Shhh don’t tell anyone;-) That’s great news, glad it worked for you. I’m still waiting for my replacements in a week or so. We’ve been talking how one can mess around making several changes, with little progress. And, then with persistence, finding that "one" thing that hits the spot and helps to bring everything into focus. Thumbs up! |
@decooney I swapped out the 5977 mini tubes in the DAC for a pair of GL 6922 and your friend was spot on.A big thanks to both of you.It made quite a difference with the higher gain tubes.The system practically breathed a sigh of relief.
@geoffkait from what I've read, different configurations filter noise differently.Makes sense but I really don't know.Shhh don't tell anyone;-)
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One wonders why the hollow oval design has any advantage for 60 Hz AC power cords since frequency is constant. 🤔 |
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" The hollow oval design addresses rising resistance by producing uniform current distribution, which means resistance doesn't vary based on frequency. Therefore, more of what goes in comes out looking the same. A byproduct of this uniformity is that electrical properties of the cable don't change over the audio frequency band, and thus what Analysis Plus calls "frequency smearing" is also addressed |
Thanks for the idea about trying different tubes for the DAC first.Definitely worth a shot,plus they don't take a million hours to break in:-)I have KT150s in my amp now and I really like them.When I first put them in my first thought was 'billowy' if that's even a word.A big airy sound.
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@rodman99999
I've not mixed N7s lately with this setup, and plan to again soon, and exactly..will do. I parted with my last good sets with my prior amps I sold, and recently purchased a few others recently. Will retry in a few weeks. But, came across a new idea today with feedback from a friend who tried running yet a different tube in our same DACs and he kinda struck gold. I may follow suit on that front. He says he's "keeping the AP cables now for sure", got it settled down a bit. Sounds promising. May try that too. One tube in DAC vs. (4) 6SN7s or (2) pairs mixed in my preamp.
@jtcf yes, my buddy kinda solved it on his system today. We kept talking about going back and "messing with the source". He tried it, pulled out a brighter GE 5670 and went with a Tesla he had from his box, put it in the DAC and he said the issue is immediately Solved for him. Says the tone and presentation sits right about half way between the GE 5670 and the WE396A we've been running with our DACs. He likes this solution a lot. Back to DAC tubes for me too, makes more sense to try this next. Will give it a go. Will have to order this single tube soon. I sold my big Cary amp to a friend and working to get the big QS monos to sound how I want them, and taming the KT150s is a double-edge sword, it was much easier with my prior-prior amp with GL KT88s. That was a neat sound. Hang on to those QS monos, with the upgrades apparently they can be pretty darn sweet. Good fun. The AP cable experiment was to see what the amps would do at their best. Now for some fine tuning to smooth things back out, just a tad. Or, grow some more patience I guess :)
@b_limo
Yes, if you find that link on "separation" AP Solos, Please post here.Good stuff. Thx. Glad to learn you guys are hearing the same in your rigs, cool.
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I confess that I can't hurry up and wait either:-)One thing that was bugging me about the speaker cables (which finally almost disappeared)was a particular high frequency note that was really prominent.It would show up on a certain high note on piano,flute,even vocals.I tracked it down on a piano lesson video and it was the D key farthest to the right on the key board.It might even be a resonance in the speaker cabinets or could be tubes.Of course now I listen for it dammit!It's 99% gone now though.
I have a newish Tubadour lll R2R but haven't messed with the tubes yet.I'll probably swap some in the amp this week just to experiment a little.Then I'll try out the Teo cables next,switching them for the WireWorld and keeping the Crystal Solo in.I'm also wondering what a really good power cord would do for my amp.I have several lower cost cords I've played with which have small differences but nothing profound.
Back on topic,I didn't notice any loss of lushness with the AP ic.But I only have the one rather than two.My nervousness was because the AP cables were too dark initially.But you know....different systems.They way the instruments are separated IS truly amazing.Hearing all the background vocals and two more guitars that were never there before is just so cool.Now that we have really tapped into our system's potentials how far can we take it?
BTW I have a pair of QS mid monos that I keep for back up duty.Maybe I'll hook them up this week and compare.My favorite tubes with those were GL KT 88.
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@decooney- You mentioned having a quad of the early Sylvania VT-231. Do you install all four(cathode follower and line, both channels) or- blend just one, with another brand or 6SN7 iteration, in each channel? I suppose that question would apply, with any tubes in your stash. ie: Mix pairs or all one brand and version, in your four octal positions? |
Same here. Rollercoaster ride. One day, full and fantastic, the next a little dull...
I think that the separation of individual instruments and being able to easily follow any one instrument or how they all fit together is a stand out feature of these cables. I read somewhere that it has to do with not smearing any particular freq. response. I’ll look for the link later when Im not at work! |
