I'm a fan of Analysis Plus also.I have a pair of their ICs that I'm not using at the moment but am going to hang on to them just in case they will fit in perfectly once again down the road.
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@b_limo I just found a used pair of the Solo Crystal Oval 8 that will arrive in a few days.What inspired me is while trying this and that to get my new dac integrated into my system,I put my old AP Solo Crystal ic back in between pre and amp and Damn!Exactly what it needed.I knew that beautiful timbre I used to enjoy was being masked by something.It's an xlr cable so I ordered adapters so I could experiment with it and a couple of others in my 'old but good' accessories box.The result was totally unexpected.I was just looking for a clue of what my next step would be - warmer?airyer?leaner?switch out tubes?etc....
Anyway I think I hear more detail buried in there screaming to be released so I'll update next week.And thank you for posting your experience.It helped nudge me in the right direction. |
They shipped today so I'll be sure to update next week:-)
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Just received the speaker cables today and ran the system for around 4 hours before listening.My initial impression is the sound is on the warm dark side,somewhat veiled,but with layer upon layer of detail.Everything is there but without sharply defined edges,velvety.The bass is outstanding! Way too soon for a final opinion but right now my hope is that they will open up just a bit more as they settle in.I really like them!
My system is all tubed like decooneys so there's always tubes and tweaks to get things in balance:-)
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Thank you for posting @decooney .I have no answers but I'm very interested in your impressions.I'm still letting my speaker cables and one ic break in.I'm hoping the sound opens up more but if not maybe a second ic (what brand to choose?) will do the trick.I'm hearing many details and layers but somehow at the same time it's a little too dark and polite.
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@decooney I think we have similar tastes.I like a lush and organic sound also.I feel I'm 95%of the way to my goal of an organic detailed sound.I'm going to try a Teo gc junior next week and see what happens.If that's too over the top euphonic then something more detailed and neutral,maybe something from High Fidelity.Analysis Plus Silver Apex sounds intriguing but $$$!It's against my thrifty midwestern mindset to invest that much in wire but it may be inevitable:-)
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Quick update - I gave the system a day off yesterday after reaching the 50+ hour mark.Today lo and behold....those Analysis Plus spcs are beginning to open up and lose the veil.They definitely need some time and a patient owner.
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You know,I've always felt 25 hours was enough time for a component,cable,or tube to show most of it's final sound then improve in small increments.I was so wrong.The paper in the box with the Crystal Solo 8 cables said 300 hours for final break in.I'm taking their word for it.Some will claim that it's simply becoming acclimated to the sound but that's not what's happening at all.I keep the sound very low and only listen for about an hour each day,always something different.Every few days I have a couple of specific tracks that I listen to see what's changed or not.After the leap in SQ after 50 hours I've been mesmerized by how clear percussion nuances are becoming.I can almost see the drum kits.
The Teo ics are in route but they're not going in until these APs are fully settled in.I had no faith and got ahead of myself.I'll have to check that thread at AA.Thanks! |
Cables are a fascinating puzzle.If you take four cables (for instance) that are structured exactly the same and measure exactly the same,the only difference being the grade of copper used - they will sound completely different from one another.Nobody really knows why for sure.It doesn't make our journey easier:-)
I think I understand what you mean about too open and transparent.At a certain point it can start to lose tone and timbre and become overly airy?Not enough "meat on the bones" ?
I don't enjoy these long break in periods but I'm enjoying the conversation and comparisons on this thread.My brother is stopping by on Friday and since he has SS components he will take the Teo cables home and break them in for me quickly.Yes!He's been wanting to try my old Rogue preamp so I'll send him home with that too.He's bringing his very old Klipcsh Hereseys to see how they sound with tubes.Should be fun.
Back on topic,the speaker cables are sounding a little clearer every day.Last night I listened to Breaking Silence - Janis Ian and discovered an entire layer of background instrumentation that was never there before.The vocals were just spooky,I could hear the air rushing from her mouth.
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The Heresys were fun to listen to!This pair were manufacured in 1977.Great midrange but no detail on top,just hash.We figured new parts inside are needed,and some tweaking too.My brother was very impressed how the tubes made them come alive.
I'm resigned to waiting for these things as long as it takes.They already sound so much better than the Clear Days or Black Cat.But I'm with you,impatient to try a couple of other things to squeeze out the last bit of performance possible.
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" Nope. For whatever friggin' voodoo magic reason, it's starting to sound plush, fuller, and just how the AP tech described could happen. "
I know!Crazy isn't it?Letting them rest seems to be important too.It's hard to retain my dignity and keep from gushing.They are very special. |
Hurry up and wait decooney:-)
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I confess that I can't hurry up and wait either:-)One thing that was bugging me about the speaker cables (which finally almost disappeared)was a particular high frequency note that was really prominent.It would show up on a certain high note on piano,flute,even vocals.I tracked it down on a piano lesson video and it was the D key farthest to the right on the key board.It might even be a resonance in the speaker cabinets or could be tubes.Of course now I listen for it dammit!It's 99% gone now though.
I have a newish Tubadour lll R2R but haven't messed with the tubes yet.I'll probably swap some in the amp this week just to experiment a little.Then I'll try out the Teo cables next,switching them for the WireWorld and keeping the Crystal Solo in.I'm also wondering what a really good power cord would do for my amp.I have several lower cost cords I've played with which have small differences but nothing profound.
Back on topic,I didn't notice any loss of lushness with the AP ic.But I only have the one rather than two.My nervousness was because the AP cables were too dark initially.But you know....different systems.They way the instruments are separated IS truly amazing.Hearing all the background vocals and two more guitars that were never there before is just so cool.Now that we have really tapped into our system's potentials how far can we take it?
BTW I have a pair of QS mid monos that I keep for back up duty.Maybe I'll hook them up this week and compare.My favorite tubes with those were GL KT 88.
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Thanks for the idea about trying different tubes for the DAC first.Definitely worth a shot,plus they don't take a million hours to break in:-)I have KT150s in my amp now and I really like them.When I first put them in my first thought was 'billowy' if that's even a word.A big airy sound.
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@decooney I swapped out the 5977 mini tubes in the DAC for a pair of GL 6922 and your friend was spot on.A big thanks to both of you.It made quite a difference with the higher gain tubes.The system practically breathed a sigh of relief.
@geoffkait from what I've read, different configurations filter noise differently.Makes sense but I really don't know.Shhh don't tell anyone;-)
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@decooney sounds like progress is being made.Good! |
The Tung Sols 6SN7s are clear and a little dry to me also.I am able to use one for the input of my amp and it makes for a good balance with the other tubes.The 6622 gold lions were sounding really too lush in the dac so in went a pair of Amperex(not sure of the year) today.Aaaand the speakers literally disappeared!Finally!They lean a little to the dry side too,so I lost some texture, but damn the music sounded good.Just a drop of midrange warmth is missing.More tweaking....
The speaker cables continue to be amazing,allowing any changes upstream to be clearly heard.
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urbie19 I'm a fan of continuous cast wire also and used to have a loom of mid level HarmTech years ago in a different system.It's so interesting and at times frustrating how the exact same wire in different configurations can all sound different from each other.
This Analysis Plus Solo 8 is so revealing that any changes upstream are apparent.So we continue to make changes to find the perfect balance.Next up for me is demoing Zenwave cables (Neotech wire) and finding just the right tubes for the Dac(Tubadour).The Teo cables which I had high hopes for did not work out at all,not a good fit.Which is ok because it helped me to figure out at what juncture a cable or tube change is needed.
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+1 Relax and enjoy:) Exactly what I'm doing now.Hoping to be able to post with my winning combo soon too.
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I feel like I'm so close now to getting things in balance.I pulled out some old cables from my audio junk box and tried them in different configurations to try and get a handle out where more warmth or leanness would be effective.Don't laugh too hard now,but yesterday a very good combination was WireWorld between Dac and Pre,M.A.C.copper between Pre and Amp (too smooth and warm),until a Gabriel Gold Revelation ic (remember those?) replaced the digital cable from transport to Dac.Then WOW!Texture,color,timbre were all outstanding.The GG was sort of whitish/bleached out in the upper mids though.If you're done laughing now....
I'm waiting for the ZenWave demos and hopefully one of those will work in place of the M.A.C. then maybe/ maybe not a new digital cable,and done!?
The tubes I've swapped in and out of the dac each sound good but different from each other,no real winners there.Amperex were sweet and transparent,Reflectors have excellent bass,GL euphonic,the original 5977 minis are detailed.
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That is really interesting.I know that a too short digital cable is troublesome,but ics too?Every little thing really does matter even if it shouldn't.I'll be interested to hear what Rob says.I'm still waiting impatiently to demo other cables.The last piece of the puzzle I think.
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Well here's my latest adventure.I've been trying this and that attempting to "feed" this system exactly the right combo of signals that will help it perform at it's best:-).Today it all fell together and I feel I'm 98%of the way there.It's leaning just a bit to the lean side,but is so transparent,detailed,and layered.Right now dac and pre are fed by Audio Envy Ocean Elite pcs.Transport and amp have CableDyne pcs.Ics are Audio Envy Prestige.The AE cables work much better together and compliment each other's strengths,and I know this after trying many configurations.The ics are all about the midrange and the pcs bring the high frequencies,bass,and dynamics.The Gabriel Gold Revelation digital cable.
The last piece of the puzzle was moving the High Fidelity MC-O.5 from the power conditioner to the duplex plug.Bam!The Analysis Plus scs in turn are sending beautiful music to the Tektons.Now to add just a drop of warmth by adding or subtracting just one thing.....
A tube,more HF power conditioning,one of the ZenWaves(still waiting).
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The GG cable is an xlr cable that I was using a few years ago when I had balanced connections.I put adapters on it and tried it just out of curiosity.Surprise,I like it!I did try the AP Crystal Solo((1 meter) along with a few others and I could hear slight differences but all were rather dull,veiled.Results may be better with 1.5 meters or even better with other xlr cables??Sometimes good things happen when fooling around with tweaks.
I have a basic understanding of how reflections and timing errors distort the digital signal so finding one that is a perfect match is yet another adventure.
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Fun some days,maddening other days:-)
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So decooney and I have been comparing notes and when I seemed to be stuck obsessing over wire he suggested trying different tubes again to banish the last traces of annoying glare.He was right.I needed to add some richnessBefore the AP scs Sofia 6SN7s worked great in my pre but adding them to the amp was way too lush.But as soon as I swapped in one Sofia in the middle with the two remaining Sylvainas flanking it - Damn! Just the slightest hint of glare(because I'm listening for it).Big sigh of relief.I really cannot stand glare or excessive sibilance.Both Ian Anderson and Joan Baez are sounding excellent as opposed to a referee whistle or a shrieking woman.Ok I'm exaggerating but those little things tend to make us audio fools crazy.Changing out wires and tubes for several months to feed the APs the best signal so they will feed the Tektons what they need to produce beautiful music.OCD:-)
Transport to Tubadour- Furutech digital cable
CableDyne PC, Audio Envy PC,tubes various
LTAMicroZ2- Audio Envy Prestige ic,Audio Envy PC,
Sofia Blue,Sylvania
Aric Audio Transcend amp -AP Crystal Solo ic
CableDyne PC,Sylvania,Sofia Blue,TS KT 150
AP Solo Crystal Oval 8 spc - Tekton Impact Monitors
Thank you b_limo for letting us hijack your thread for our journal.These speaker cables are so good and so revealing,well worth doing a little tweaking upstream.
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@decooney you have a whole loom now!I might end up with one too.I'm somewhat of a cable junkie and am still trying some different ics.But the speaker cables are staying forever.Somehow the Analysis ics keep finding their way back between the pre and amp,just a perfect fit apparently.But the digital cable and the ic between dac and pre I continue to "try just one more and I promise to quit" .Right.
The speaker cables are just so revealing it's interesting to hear how each change is better/worse.I'll write a little more about that later. |
Dave from Zenwave sent me several ics and a digital cable to try.Surprisingly his two top of the line cables were not a good fit at all.Others have reported how detailed and reference quality they are so I had great expectations.I loved the D1 which is the entry level ic,lush and beautiful.The DSR (mid level) was outstanding to my ears,tone,timbre,detail and really dimensional.So real at times like I could reach out and touch the musicians.That paired with the digital cable was clearly the best fit.Worked really well with the AP speaker cables and AP ics.
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