Atmasphere:
Can you tell me where in Canada I can demo your amps? I live in BC but I also travel quite frequently to Calgary, AB. Well made amps. The closest dealer is in Toronto- address on our website. |
Larryi,
We seem to hear in a very similar manner. I always enjoy your well thought out insight and impressions in these forums. |
I agree that, in the solid state camp, First Watt amps would be pretty good. They really do not sound like good tube amps (they still have a smidge of an artificial sounding initial attack to the note), but they are very dynamic and lively sounding at lower volume (where most solid state sounds lifeless), and do not sound harmonically thinned out like most solid state stuff. I am not a fan of Pass gear, but, the two First Watt amps I heard sounded quite good. I had a friend's amp in my system for two weeks and I liked it a lot. Unfortunately, they are not cheap enough to be considered for a temporary solid state fill in. Perhaps a Bel Canto class D amp would make a good temporary amp. I have heard their entry level amp on Harbeth and ProAc speakers and it sounds decent. |
That video on the manufacturing of the MC275 kind of disappointed me. It seems like McIntosh is cutting some corners in making these tube amps. Definitely not the quality of the McIntosh I was familiar with. I now am thinking of going with the Wyetech Topaz. That build quality really is first rate - I just need to hear it before I make my final decision. Otherwise, I will likely just get a SS amp to tide me over for a bit until I find my dream amp. |
Pani,
I'm generally partial to tubes in most cases. I however suspect that the transistor First Watt amps will outperform certain tube amps as you cited. Not every tube amplifier is a good one. |
Mmarshall, another very interesting option would be to get 2 Pass Labs F6 amplifiers and biamp the Tannoy. I have heard the F6 and it is seriously among the best solid state amplifiers I have heard and that comes closest to a top notch tube amp. It is way more accurate and musical than the likes of MC275 at least. To put on record, it is the only Pass Labs amplifier I have liked so far. |
Atmasphere:
Can you tell me where in Canada I can demo your amps? I live in BC but I also travel quite frequently to Calgary, AB. Well made amps. |
Larryi,
I wonder when MAC made this manufacturing change? I am Really surprised by the use of circuit board traces for input and speaker connectors. You're right, output transformer quality was historically a strength of this brand. |
McIntosh was known for its output transformers which had interleaved windings and insulation between each layer of winding, this was NOT something that could be spun like a top and wound in seconds, as shown in the video. Slow hand winding is also done to prevent excessive stress on the wire in the winding process.
The printed circuit board on the back panel that is used to make the connections to the input jacks and the speaker terminals is not the way to go to make good connections; I would want connections to be wired and soldered. |
Larryi can you explain more to those of use not familiar with "how it's made" why it's disappointing to anyone with even a modest of understanding of gear? Looked very good to me. |
Hi Charles1dad,
My recent negative experience with the sound of both the 275 and a big solid state McIntosh amp can be the result of an indifferent setup. I heard them at a non-McIntosh dealer that has take stuff in trade for other gear and so they amps were inserted into a system without much of an attempt to optimize the setup. Still, a lot of other amps have been dropped into this system with quite good results, so I remain wary of the sound of McIntosh gear (I have not liked the sound of their gear at CES and other shows too).
The "How it is Made" video, I think, speaks for itself. It is, to me, particularly cynical to allow the filming as a means of promoting the product when what is shown is really disappointing to anyone with even modest understanding of gear. It goes to show that they primarily market their gear to those who have no idea about quality gear. Just take a look for yourself, I know that you are knowledgeable about tube gear:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HgS6gvokEI |
No circuit boards :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yodVDiEIpqI |
Larryi,
Wow, that is some unexpected insight, that is disappointing . Although the bottom line is how does it sound? Not good based on your recent listening experience. At the very least you can say it is build very differently than the Wyetech amplifier. I hope Mmarshall can hear both amps with his speakers and decide. |
I have heard the Topaz, although not with any Tannoy speakers, and it is a very good amp. The Kensington I heard were fairly easy to drive; they worked well with amps that were rated at 15 watts to about 50 watts that I heard coupled to the speaker. Based on what I heard with the Kensington, I would look for something with a that would not be excessively hard or brittle sounding at the higher end of the midrange. That means I would pay attention to how it works with solid state and some of the higher-powered tube gear that have a tendency to sound "hard" in the same range.
I have heard the MC275 on efficient speakers not too long ago and the particular setup sounded terrible--muddled and lifeless. A short while later I saw an episode of "How it is Made" that featured the construction of the amp, and frankly it was shocking. I would never buy anything built like this. All of the input connections and the connections to the speaker terminals are made by a press-fit printed circuit board, meaning that even the output to the speakers is being carried by a mere board traces, and no connections are soldered. The winding of the output transformers was done on a machine that appears to do four or five transformers in a matter of seconds--so much for the handwound, interleaved, and carefully insulated transformers that made McIntosh amps something special. |
Some time ago I heard Tannoy Prestige line speakers using Octave tube amps. The combo sounded very good. I like Octvae tube amps. Many tube amps sound overly warm or lush Octave doesn't while still giving that tube "magic". |
Pani wrote "...had a McIntosh C275 for demo at home and I
realized that these speakers sound so clean and dynamic
that any amount of power can be consumed unknowingly."
Pani - can you give me your impression on the MC275 you demoed? I stopped into a dealer yesterday and had a chat with a salesman. He suggested that the MC275 would be a great match with my Turnberrys and even offered me a very good deal on a brand new unit. I am very tempted to snap it up. He thought this amp would be a much better match with my speakers vs the MC452.
I have ruled out the Wyetech Onyx but I still have the Wyetech Topaz on the list. The MC275 looks intriguing. |
Mmarshall,
I just got my Manley Neo-Classic 300B preamp and 2 Chinook for my MM and MC cartridge. Will put them together as soon as I'm able. |
S1nn3r - Those are some nice looking amps. Have you tried other Manleys with your Kensingtons? |
I am using Manley Neo250 on my Tannoy Kensington GR. Very very satisfied, no plans of replacing it ever. |
Mcintosh is okay but they sound slow to my ears. |
Thanks Pani. I will check out the Naim Nait 5i. I have also been looking at McIntosh amps. It seems like they are a good match with Tannoys. I have read several positive comments from Tannoy users who are using McIntosh solid state and tube amps. |
Yea, you could get a Bryston as a backup amp. However, I would still suggest you look at a Naim Nait 5i for about the same amount in the used market. It is a more exciting amp with the Tannoy and it is an integrated amp.
And yes, not many on Agon use Tannoy. Secondly not many Tannoy owners visit forums because they dont look for a change anytime soon ;-) |
I refer to Bryston because I have owned many in the past and I can get a used 3B ST for under $800. That gives me a great amp for a backup and until I find a great tube amp for these speakers. I have to admit I am a little disappointed in the low number of postings here. Maybe Tannoy owners do not use Agon. |
Mmarshall, if you like the Bryston sound (which is a bit dry and uninterestingly clean), go for it. Else I would suggest something like a Naim, LFD or a Pass First Watt F6, all of which are more harmonically richer and closer to a good tube amp. |
Hello,
I thought I'd add my two cents, My one-off Tannoy HPD 315's (12" Dual Concentrics from the mid seventies) sound gorgeous with an SET 300B, that puts out a very stout 9 Wpc.
However, I recently (out of curiosity) built a Class D Audio kit (CDA 254), @ 125 Wpc, when built as a stereo amp. I, however, took it a step further, and added a second amp module, and are running the two modules in bridged mono mode. In theory, they will output 500 Wpc this way, I'm not sure just what they output, when sharing the same power supply, as in my case.
The original kit was $430, and another $145 for the second module. They also sell complete amps for a fair price. My Tannoys love the power provided by this amplification, and sound nearly as good as they ever have, kind of like an SET amp on steroids.
It's an inexpensive way to try alternative amps, and it's great to have different amps to chose from, and to have a back-up in case of tube failure.
Regards,
Dan |
So if a good solid state amp would work well would a Bryston 3B SST be a good match? They are plentiful and affordable. |
Redcarerra, a good high powered amp will bring concert hall experience into the room with your speaker. |
I've been running my Canterbury's with 60 watt Atma's OTL's and they truly sing with those. Been curious about trying them with a good 100 watt plus SS amp, or a first watt amp, particularly for large orchestral music and opera to see how that would work. |
Super speakers these Tannoys are. After hearing many many speakers and owning a good number of them I found ultimate solace in a pair of Tannoy Turnberry SE. I know the Kensigtons are better but it doesnt bother me because music sounds so satisfying on a Turnberry.
Regarding amps, it is a tricky one. Tricky because this speaker can be used with a huge variety of amps. At the same time it will also reveal the power limitations of the amp if driven harder. A 211 based SET would do well. A Kt88 or Kt120 based push-pull would do well. Even high powered OTLs would do well. But solid state amps also sound fantastic with these speakers. In fact Tannoy has designed these speakers to be paired with SS amps. I currently use a Tenor OTL75 and FM Acoustics F10 amplifiers. Both around 70 watts per channel. Both sound fabulous in their own ways and both can run out of juice when I play large orchestral music loud. If you dont mind exploring solid state amps I would strongly recommend you try a Naim amplifier with your Tannoy. You will be amazed with the combination. Look at either the Nait 5i or their entry level pre-power combination. You will hear these speakers breathing with great dynamic range and ease.
The other option would be to go with a Pass Labs (First Watt) F6. It is a lot closer to tube amplification by design and has a healthy 30 watts to boot.
By the way I had a McIntosh MC275 for demo at home and I realized that these speakers sound so clean and dynamic that any amount of power can be consumed unknowingly. A friend of mine who has owned almost every Tannoy suggested that they need a minimum of 100 watts per channel to sing unconditionally. At the same time if you choose to feed it with only 10 watts of SET power, it will not dissapoint you. So its tricky! |
Mmarshall:
Yes, it has Alnico magnets and the pepperpot design similar to Kensington. It will sound better than the normal Turnberry, but efficiency is same. Only 150 pairs were ever made. |
Mattam:
Do your LE Turnberry's use the pepperpot tweeters and are the speakers any more efficient than the normal Turnberry's?
Would love to hear other Tannoy Turnberry GR or Stirling GR owners chime in here. |
I too own the recent Limited Edition of Tannoy Turnberry GR and tried it with a Japanese 300b SET. I do not think these
SET amps can exploit the full potential of Tannoy. The minimum recommended power is 20W as per manual. Some of the KT66/88 amps or the new KT150 tubes may be the right choice. Any suggestions.
I am also interested in 845 and let us have more feedback on 845 amps from tannoy users. Some of the parallel design offer more wattage. 2 X 845 per channel can heat up the room considerably. |
The Tannoys have been very tube-friendly. We have a lot of customers using them with our amplifiers (which also use 6AS7Gs).
The speaker is rated at 93 db and is 8 ohms. Unless you have a very small room you will want some power to drive this speaker- a good 60 watts in most rooms, perhaps even more.
To really hear what an SET does, its best to have the speaker be efficient enough such that the amp does not need to play more than about 20% of full power to play the loudest portions of the music. Otherwise the higher ordered harmonics come into play and you really don't hear what the amp is about.
This BTW is not about playing loud, its about playing clean. |
Thanks guys. Yes I am leaning very much towards the Onyx mono blocks. They seem like very capable amps at a decent price. |
The Wyetech Amplifiers have earned esteemed reputations for sound and
built quality. Two different sound characters I'd imagine, output tubes are
6AS7GA vs 211 tubes. 2K seems a very good value for the Onyx mono
blocks.
Good Luck, |
Either One would work well. I use a Sophia electric 845 that gives great results. Another option that would be less money is a pair of antique sound lab 1006 monos. I know a guy that will be selling an upgraded pair if your interested(no affiliation).
Great speaker, I have the yorkminsters. |
