Amp search


So I'm looking for an amp to bi-amp the upper section of my palladium p37f's. Either solid state class A or tube, between 50 and 100 watts. This is only going to do work above 550 hz with benign impedance loads. Budget is 2500$ so obviously used. The problem I'm having is finding one with 32 DB gain to match the the amp I will be using on the woofers. It's proving a bit tricky to find one. Variable gain one would be even better. Can anyone point me towards such a product? I'm open to  older models, within reason.

lukaszwk

Yes active outboard crossover would technically be ideal but I really want to avoid going that route because it complicates things far too much. For example bypassimg my speakers complicated 3.5 way internal crossover and having the outboard active one sound as good? Tall order. Infact highly unlikely. Not a fan of DSP either unless it’s only in the low bass. I don’t really see a problem with feeding full range signal to a part of the loudspeaker even if low frequency are being blocked by the crossover and are turned into heat instead of drawing current from the amp to power the drivers, especially into high impedance load (above 10ohms) But there’s probably something I’m missing or are unaware of. With two gain matched amps there should be minimal differences that could be resolved with a passive analog line attenuator, like one mentioned above. No?

 

IMHO Mr. Karston is right about this: "But here’s something to keep in mind. If you don’t have an electronic crossover, this means that all frequencies are being fed to both amps"

I happen to use an electronic crossover made by Marchand Electronics; it allowed me to finally and completely resolve the problem of using a subwoofer with large 2-way speakers with no bloat or redundant amplification of certain frequencies. This unit is relatively compact, very transparent acoustically, and perfectly well behaved. There are other models that would readily allow you to cross over the signal at the required 550 Hz. You would have to choose the slopes for this (I used 24 dB/octave), but that is something the speaker manufacturer might comment on better than me.

It also would be better if both amps are relatively similar in gain. The electronic crossovers I’m familiar with (Marchand’s and others) have gain pots per channel, but the range is not nearly as wide as found in a preamp gain pot. These pots are typically +/- something lilke 6 dB total, and thus should be regarded more as "trim pots" than volume pots. All to say if both amps put out (for example) 26 dB gain, the crossover has to do less (if any) gain adjustment, in addition to division of frequencies fed to each amp.

@deer_creek_audio 

Thanks but like I said I already own a good class D amp and am looking for class A or possibly a/b with high class A bias. Also it's seriously overpowered for my needs 

The Hypex Nilai 500 stereo amplifier provides ultra high-end class D amplification.  The amplifier competes with high-end products, providing serious sound for a fraction of the price.

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Not sure how I managed to miss that on Schiit website before but yeah, that might remedy the gain mismatch although I do plan on having the same gain on both amps. Like I said before I did manage to find a way to lower the gain on my current amp from 32db to 26db (currently awaiting gain input boards) so it should make finding a match easier.

May not be up to snuff for you, but I used this to control low pass gain in my bi-amped setup. Worked great.

https://www.schiit.com/products/sys

I have a D Sonic m3a 1200s (class D) which I like a lot. It's just a a fancy I want to entertain and try something else but I didn't want to lose the bass and the control of what this amp provides so bi-amping seems like the way to go.

I wouldn't necessarily say I'm throwing parasound under the bus but i am familiar with that amp and not necessarily smitten. Also I am a firm believer in class D especially newer GanFet ones but they are few and far between and currently not many in the used market. Never owned a pure class A so that's why I'd like to see what' the fuss is about.

A crossover to match levels? Don't think I understand. As long as gain on both amps is the same, the levels will also be the same. There’s nothing wrong the my current amp btw.

@lukaszwk It may not be as simple as that. Plan B is to get a passive volume control which you place between the amp with the most Voltage gain and the preamp. In this way you can simply turn it down till you get a match.

But here's something to keep in mind. If you don't have an electronic crossover, this means that all frequencies are being fed to both amps. Whether the speaker is reproducing the frequencies is irrelevant; the amp will be (the unused frequencies being blocked by the internal crossover of the speaker). Being blocked isn't the same as saying that there's no effect of those frequencies on the amplifier- in particular the one that is meant to do the highs.

An electronic crossover allows you to set the levels of the amps and usually the crossover frequency as well. Since you can't remove the internal crossover, it would seem to duplicate functions but as I explained, it will help.

Yes I know parasound offers this feature and I've heard this amp but that's way too much power and not really class A. Also not a high achiever when it comes to midrange and treble although it's ok.

Totally FWIW Dept.: you really should not be able to tell what class of operation any amplifier is if its competently built! You won't hear a 'transition' from class A to AB in the case of an AB amplifier. This is so true that there are class D amps out there that challenge any fully class A amp ever made. So don't worry about whether its class A or not. Class A is a means to making the amp more linear when there's no feedback for correction so this makes the biggest difference with zero feedback amplifiers. But even there as long as the amp is designed properly and properly biased, you'll never hear a difference!

What might be a concern is whether the amp is bright and harsh in the mids and highs. That has nothing to do with class A and everything to do with how well the designer understood the rules of human hearing/perception. Again, there are class D amps out there that have no problem in this regard. I've not heard the Parasound but I wouldn't throw it under the bus because its not class A! 

Yes I know parasound offers this feature and I've heard this amp but that's way too much power and not really class A. Also not a high achiever when it comes to midrange and treble although it's ok.

A crossover to match levels? Don't think I understand. As long as gain on both amps is the same, the levels will also be the same. There’s nothing wrong the my current amp btw.

 

Parasound A21. Used probably $12-1400. Some watts class a, not sure how many but is definitely on the warm non mechanical side and one of the more tubey sounding ss amps I’ve heard. Only one I can think of with variable gain except the old Denon amps. 

Here is an amplifier manufacture with alot of knowledge willing to help.that shows integrity. We need more of that in this world.thanks and he takes time to do it.enjoy the music and your search

@atmasphere  I just learned from the manufacturer of my current amp that there's an input board available that lowers gain to 26db. This should make it easier to locate an appropriate amp. Are there any candidates out there that come to mind?

@lukaszwk 

32 dB is the problem. The less power an amp has, the more likely the gain will be less too, since its more likely to be used on more sensitive speakers. So amps of the power level in which you are interested are more likely to have 22-25dB of gain.