Adding tubes to integrated setup

For a new tube user I’d recommend Primaluna, or any other manufacturer that has self boasting. It’s zero fuss. There are plenty of used Primaluna integrated’s on the use market at affordable prices. If a tube goes bad a light goes on and the amp goes into protection mode. So there’s zero risk of damaging your amplifier or integrated. It frankly doesn’t get any easier to own a tube amp!

Back in the day I had a Musical fidelity tube buffer.  If you can find one of those or similar. you can use it with your Yamaha inserting it in one of the tape loops.

I have considered the Schitt Freya+ but then i need a power amp as the Yamaha can't function as power amp alone

That ModWright looks about  like what I'm after.  

I could just start over and buy separates.  When I started this I thought I wanted an integrated b/c i didn't think I'd want to have separates and swap stuff out and tinker.  But now that I'm in, I do want to tinker and have become a little obsessed with wanting to try new things. . So here i am...

Analog Bridge - ModWright Instruments

Good question. Over many years I've found that I need tubes at least somewhere in my system. The Schitt Freya+ preamp makes solid state amps better, at least for the few I've tried--Pass XA-25, Sony FET, Akitika  (and especially with Tung-Sol 6SN7 tubes). Your ears may vary.

There are hybrid integrated options, most using tube preamp designs and solid state amplification. Vincent, Margules and others do this. Other options are separate tube preamps and solid state amps. Still a third are preamps with selectable tube output stages combined with a solid state amp. I have been using ProJect's PreBox RS2 Digital preamp which is balanced, has a dual DAC, solid state headphone amp and selectable tube and solid state output sections. I am combining one with a Class-D amp with excellent effect.

What tubes?

Many sound similar, some sound significantly different. It’s not Pandora’s box, but you do need to be aware, ask questions, do some research, and it is hard to have confidence when you have little experience.

Like cartridges, think ’preferred’, not ’better’.

Buying new, with OEM provided tube(s), or buying used with original or _____? tubes in it?

Try to ascertain seller’s knowledge/experience, ask here about specific equipment and specific tubes in it. Ask maker if they still exist.

Tube life? Tubes tested? Tubes should last MANY years, some 10,000 hours,

Once you enter the tube world, I recommend an inexpensive tube tester as fundamental to continued existence. With no tester, you leave yourself blind when problems occur. Short" Signal Strength? Matched Strength? Test new tubes when you buy them.

It is not just power tubes that sound different, I loved the sound of my new to me used Cayin OEM tubes, blew one of it’s 6sl7’s, tried a different brand, new, tested perfectly, hated it’s sound, happily Brent Jesse let me break them in 60 hours, still disliked them, return them and try a different choice, whoopee, sounds great again, and I since found and bought some Cayin branded spares.

OEM ’branded’ tubes, from which maker, which batch, huh? At least I can count on Cayin having decided this batch of this maker’s tubes sound good in their unit.

I encourage trying tubes, signal first, then power.

You can plug ANY Line Level Device, Preamp, Processor, Line Controller .... into ANY Line Level Input of ANY Receiver/Integrated Amp/Selector, as long as you are careful with the multiple volume control’s relationship(s).

It can be a great way to get remote volume while using a vintage piece with no remote capability.

Your Yamaha unit has both ’CD Direct’ and ’Pure Direct’. I recommend you read the manual, I would try plugging a tube piece, or tube preamp’s output into the Yamaha’s ’CD Direct’ Input.

You will ’find’ and leave one unit’s volume at a pre-chosen position, and use the other unit’s remote volume control for more or less attenuation.

1. both/all unit’s volume down, connect preamp output to any line level input.

2. integrated/amp volume to 50%.

3. preamp volume slowly up.

Find a mix of the two volume controls for your default ’turn on’ listening volume.

IF you do low level listening, you want to use the Yamaha to lower the volume as it has a ’loudness’ volume feature that is beneficial, read your manual, it’s worth knowing how to properly use it. Maintaining proper bass relative to other frequencies is what keeps low volume music involving.

Select your source at the tube preamp, simply leave the Yamaha on the input the preamp is plugged into.

And, you can use the tube preamp for only a few sources, i.e. Phono and/or Tape out to the Yamaha’s CD Direct Input, and use other sources connected directly into another Yamaha input.

’Pure Direct’ on your Yamaha will bypass all the tone controls, probably bypass it’s balance control so if you use that, better to use the CD Direct.

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In my case, I have a chain of 3 volume controls, one vintage tube tuner/preamp manual volume; one remote Line Controller with both remote volume and remote balance (why I use it); one Modern Integrated Amp with remote volume (but no balance control).

Sources to the tube preamp; Preamp to the Line Controller; Line Controller to the Integrated Amp’s default input (CD).

Preamp Vol at 12 o’clock; Integrated amp volume at 12 o’clock; use Line Controller’s remote volume and remote balance. I get it’s built-in automatic and progressive Fletcher Munson ’Loudness’ when I lower the volume, and at my chosen mix of positions I get more than enough volume when I raise the Line Controller’s volume.

I don’t think of tubes as a kind of flavoring, such that adding a touch here or there would really give one a proper taste of tube sound.  It would make more sense to go with a pure tube integrated.  The most significant change comes from the output side, meaning that adding a tube linestage on the front end has far less impact than going tube for the power amp.  A tube integrated gets you both.

The issue with getting a tube power amp or integrated amp is in the matching to one’s speakers, size of room, and preferred listening level.  Most tube amps are more particular than solid state amps when it comes to such matching.  To me, the best tube amps are low to medium in power, and if you truly need 100 watts or more, stick with solid state.  High-powered tube amps tend to sound hard and brittle.

You can get a small taste of tube sound with tubes on the front end, but, you will not get the full measure without running tubes as the output device.

Thanks I’ve been considering the PrimaLuna EVO 100 tube DAC.  I can get it heavily discounted.  

Tube pre-amplification can be less costly than tube amplification.   My opinion, In your case the best  and least expensive way to add tubes to your system would be to replace your 801 integrated with one using tubes in the preamp stage.  Check out the Vincent SV-500 as an example of one of the least expensive ones that I could recommend. 

With a digital based system another way would be to purchase a DAC having a tube output stage. Check out Black Ice audio or MDHT DACs  for a couple examples providing high value to $ spent. 

Your 801 has a DAC, phonostage, preamp and amplifier all contained within a single box. Many components at a very modest price. Adding tubes to your system would require significant additional expense.