Acoustic Zen Matrix Reference II vs. Absolute Copper IC's

I wouldn’t rush to judgement on the Silver Refs if you haven’t tried them with the Hegel yet.  Not a big fan of the Matrix ll — doesn’t have the rich warmth and tone of the original Matrix, and the treble sounds more unrefined as well.  If the Silver Refs don’t work I’d go with the Absolute Copper as it’s probably more befitting of an amp at the level of the 390, FWIW.  Best of luck. 

I have used the AZ Matrix IIs, Silver Reference, and the Absolute Coppers and Silvers. I ended up with Absolute Copper. I note that the Absolute Silver is no longer available - not sure why. Don’t generally care for silver ICs or speaker wiring and this time was no exception. That doesn’t mean it won’t work for you in your system.

One thing I would add is you have no idea what your cable sounds like unless you use a cable burner. I like the Audio Dharma. Oh, and cables benefit from a reburn every 6-12 months too.

Good luck.

@soix:

I've been listening to the Hegel with the Silver Reference IC's. The sound can be a touch bright with some CDs and given that 1) the Hegel is much more resolving than the Wells and 2) I'd prefer more warmth if I can get it and still maintain the same resolution, I can't help but wonder whether trying the Matrix or Absolute Coppers wouldn't constitute "due diligence".  

@barrysandy:

Thanks so much for your descriptions. I read a comment on another site that concurs with your characterization of the Matrix. To my ears, the Silver Reference were just right for the Wells and Aqua DAC but each to his/her own. Looks like borrowing some Absolute Coppers from the Cable Co's lending library will be my next step. 

Looks like borrowing some Absolute Coppers from the Cable Co’s lending library will be my next step.

Why do that? Just buy a used pair for about half price and if they don’t work out you can sell them easily for little/no loss as there’s a pretty liquid market for AZ cables. If you’re looking for XLR there are a couple available at US AudioMart now.

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649802839-acoustic-zen-absolute-copper-occ-1m-xlr-pair-sublime/

agree, i had no trouble selling some AZ Silver cables a while back. I think they represent fantastic value, especially used. Good luck on your quest and enjoy the music !

Jim

Different strokes...

I love the acoustic Zen and the harmonic technology cables, but unless it's a hybrid cable that has both the OCC single Crystal silver and copper silver by itself can be a little bit bright unless your equipment is very neutral sounding, I have all harmonic technology in my system using the magic generation 3 for interconnects and the pro 9sc generation 3 for speaker wire bi-wired, anyone that is stupid enough to pay $28,000 for a piece of wire is got more money than brains because audioquest uses single crystal wire as well.

@havocman:

 "...unless it's a hybrid cable that has both the OCC single Crystal silver and copper, silver by itself can be a little bit bright unless your equipment is very neutral sounding".

Agreed... but keep in mind when I first checked out the A. Copper and Silver reference IC's, I had both a warm-sounding integrated (Wells Majestic) and a warm-sounding DAC (Aqua La Voce S II) in the system. In this scenario, I found the A. Copper a bit dull, while the Silver Ref. sounded "just right".  . 

The Hegel is both more resolving and more neutral than the Wells, which is prompting me to try the A. Copper again. 

@tomic601:

Thanks!  

I upgraded from AZ Matrix II to Absolute Copper.
The Matrix II are awesome cables. Can’t call out any shortcomings until compared with the Absolute Copper.

The Absolute Copper are more detailed than the Matrix with better texture and tighter bass, more extended highs and more fleshed out midrange. I would not call these cables warm by any means. The Absolute Copper will be more refined than the Silver Refs.
What speakers are you using?

@audphile1:

Silverline SR17.5

"A more fleshed out mid-range" is a very good description of what I'm after, so your characterization is encouraging. Thanks for your input!

@dalims4 :

Yes-- that's how the A. Coppers sounded to me, when paired with my Wells Integrated  However, the Hegel has greater high end extension and is neutral, compared to the overtly warm Wells. I may still be disappointed by the A. Copper but I believe it deserves another audition. I will keep your suggestions in mind 

Thanks!

The A. Copper IC's sound fairly dark in my system, so I'm experimenting with different power cords, footers and will also try combining them with a pair of the Silver Reference IC's (via the Lokius EQ). If these strategies do not pan out, I will have to try a different brand.

I did combine Silver Ref (DAC to pre) with Matrix Ref (pre to amp) and it was a really nice combo.  Best of both worlds kinda.  Mix n match might well be your solution. 

@soix;

Yes--I will definitely try that

I put the Symposium roller block Jr's. under the Hegel and this is yielding a good balance of warmth and resolution, so far. 

I think you’re right to stick with AZ and just search for the right combo.  IME, AZ cables are very natural sounding and actually a Big Bang for the buck.  I’d be surprised if a combo of AC and Silver Ref wasn’t the magic bullet.  Please let us know what u find, but I have a high confidence factor ur gonna find the “magic zone” with your AZs.  

I'll try what you've suggested tomorrow and see how it sounds. 

I combined the Absolute Copper XLR with the Fusion XLR from Zavfino and for my system and tastes it's an awesome pairing.

@stuartk sounds dark and the only change is the addition of Absolute Copper?

Give it a day or so to settle with signal going thru cables 24/7. Who knows when was the last time these cables were used. They may benefit from couple of days of play before judging. 

@stuartk 

I've been listening to the Hegel with the Silver Reference IC's. The sound can be a touch bright with some CDs and given that 1) the Hegel is much more resolving than the Wells and 2) I'd prefer more warmth if I can get it and still maintain the same resolution, I can't help but wonder whether trying the Matrix or Absolute Coppers wouldn't constitute "due diligence".  

I have a very similar situation. I have made a few changes of late, one of which was a set of AZ Absolute speaker cables. After letting those burn in I finally played around with the AZ Silver ref II XLR's from DAC to electronic crossover with the Transparent plus level XLR I used previously. Could not believe how much better the AZ Silver was. Not going to use any adjectives but I can't believe at one time I thought the Transparent was the last one I might ever need. Of course the Absolute speaker cables are able to communicate the differences upstream compared to what was in there before, (and yes the AZ are in a higher price bracket, but it still shocks me). Now after enjoying and getting used to this synergy for a few months I am looking at switching out the last set of XLR's from electronic crossover to amps, which are currently some Audio Sensibility statement XLR's. (2 as I horizontally bi-amp) I haven't done much comparisons with these ones but I might conclude they are good cables, but certainly not in the same league as Absolute's. Some tracks are equisite; dare I say near perfect, and I feel no changes need to be made at all. With my Nord Class D amps and Maggie 3.6's resolution is off the charts, which I like, but some are a little thin, lacking a little warmth, and make me feel like trying either 2 more absolute coppers in place of the Audio sensibilities, or swapping with the Silver Ref. and putting it between crossover and amp, but I don't think I want to exchange the AS with 2 more sets of AZ Silver's?? But who knows, maybe the AZ Silvers are more warm the copper AS Statements? 

Anyway just chiming in and thanking you for starting this thread, but curious: I don't believe you stated what speaker cables you are using? 

@dalims4 

Just read through Van den Hul's website; didn't know they (and some others) were making cables of a carbon/metal. I have read some good things over the years, but I found this from their FAQ a little interesting:

6-2 Q: Is there a sonic difference between cables made of pure copper and cables made of pure silver ? A: As long as the type and extent of purity as well as the production method are the same, there is no sonic difference. But... silver costs much more than regular copper.

@mclinnguy 

@dalims4

Laughing at your posts….and Mr. van den Hul’s conclusion on copper vs. silver.

He must be high on them brownies there….

@audphile1 

silver has about a 5% better conductivity than copper..  doubt it would be noticeable in many tests if at all..  I recently had some custom transformers built. I had asked for silver, which was quite a bit more expensive.. The designer/builder uses both copper and silver upon request. I was told that silver doesn’t sound any better and that I should stick to using copper. I was all ready to buy silver and pay the premium over cooper, but went with cooper after listening to the guy with 40+ years in designing and building transformers who could have easily taken my money and let me walk away paying almost twice the price… 

@mikem:

Sorry for the delayed response. We've been hit hard by three feet of snow coupled with ongoing power outage and power's not projected to return until 1/7. I'm on generator and can't stay long. 

Anyway, I use Audio Art speaker cable. I have long runs (20 feet) and when I started out, that's what I could afford. I've upgraded all my other cables over time (some, more than once) but not the speaker cable and I can't see doing it until we live somewhere that affords much shorter runs. 

The storm's brought a halt to my experimenting but The Cable Co. has generously granted me an extension on the loaner cable. I will try combining the A. Copper and Silver Ref. with the Lokius, next. 

I have not been able to get a remotely neutral sound out of the Absolute Copper IC's. They are incredibly dark in my system. Of course, YMMV. 

The Silver Reference were brighter than I prefer with the Hegel BUT I have since changed out a power cord, inserted Herbies Threaded Stud Gliders back into my speaker stands and things are sounding much closer to what I like. 

By contrast, I was not able to find any work-a-rounds to lift the system out of the stygian depths with the A. Coppers in place. Combining them with a pair of the Silver Reference via the Lokius with the EQ tweaked did not succeed, so I'm returning them to The Cable Company. 

I will keep the system as currently configured for awhile and continue to evaluate.

Having just come off an in-depth search for an integrated, I don't have the energy at this point to immediately embark upon a cable "grail quest". 

Thanks to all who contributed to this thread. 

Happy to hear you got your power back on ahead of schedule :) 

@mclinnguy:

Thanks-- that was a total surprise but after 8 days, a most welcome one! 

Now, if the propane company would just deliver. . . ;o)

BTW, I read up on the vdH IC's and discovered that The Cable Co. stocks them. 

I will keep them in mind for the future. 

Have only used a few Azen cables so I can't comment on the two versions you mention (OP) side by side. I think I had Matrix about 6 versions of hardware prior. Well built for sure.

I do believe the VDH might be very close to the Stealth Indra, as it also used a sort of fine filament wire (maybe carbon) and they were stellar performers. Very open and delicate presentation. New versions way too expensive at $3kish.

I've just switched to Silnote Morpheus as they, in my system, have killed off some of the negatives I was dealing with using Gabriel Golds, Stealth PGS (gold wire), Audio Metallurgy GA0, and a very nice set of Danish Audio Dual Connect gold cables (for sale). I was a strong gold lover but the multi-alloy approach is mo' better to me with recent system changes.

If I was going to go for it in a big way, I would stretch to Kubala Sosna cables but not this year. $$

I will check out the Mountains as they sound similar in construction to the Indras, which I really liked.

Have you considered Verastarr flat ribbon IC's? Heard great things. I use their power cables.

I've never tried Verastarr cables although OCD Mike did once loan me a couple DACs to try and I found him to be very honest.