Acoustic Signature Turntables

Analog_sa, sorry to hear about you're bearing problem. I have had no problem with my bearing, but your report is making me wonder about this table. I am surprised Gunther will even answer your email. Keep us informed of the progress, or lack of progress, of you're bearing. Maybe, it will run in, but sounds fishy, at least to me. Maybe someone here, with more knowledge, can help with the problem.

My spindle is OK. so maybe yours is defective.

Which table do you own, and how old is it?

Curious if all users of Acoustic Signature are happy with their bearings. Mine collapsed, platter was shipped to Germany and it came back with a new spindle and sleeve. It is noisy as hell. One can easily hear it a meter or two away. Gunther claims it will run in but so far there has been no improvement. Spindle surface looks horrible. Among the 30+ decks i've owned there hasn't been a single one with such a poorly made bearing. Unless of course it is defective.

Dear Isanchez: Did you try it with a silk thread?

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.

I too had a long ordeal with Gunther.

Acman3,

I'm sad to hear that but do understand your decision. I ended up selling my AS!

As always...

Reviving this old thread to add my problem with Acoustic Signature''s customer service.

On January 7th, I sent around $50 by Paypal for a belt. I received one reply on March 14th from Gunther, stating he had made a mistake, and would send the belt that day. I have heard nothing from him since, after many emails.

I have enjoyed his table and have no problems with the table. In fact, I was inquiring about upgrading motors, but I will not be pursuing that any further with Acoustic Signature.

Jeff_ss,

I am truly pleased to hear it. As we've all said, they make fantastic turntables and with this added care over customer service, can only go from strength t strength.

Well done AS, well done Otto!

Enjoy

It looks like Otto came through for me. I’ve never corresponded with him and today out of the blue I received his email saying the power supply is repaired and shipped by UPS Express. He provided a tracking number which shows on the UPS site that the package has been picked up. He attached an invoice saying the rectifier, fuse and all 4 output transistors were replaced for what seems to me a reasonable price of 69 euros. He wants me to pay that plus shipping both ways which I’m happy to do. After I receive the unit :^)

Thanks otto!

Thanks for the kind words. I'm on vacation for two weeks so don't need to think about it, and I've gotten used to listening to digital over the last 5 months. Expect to buy a new power supply before the end of the year if necessary. The money could have gone to a second arm base which is what bothers me the most. But, so it goes.

Sorry, no additional ideas come to mind. I never tried phoning them, although i guess that would be an option. Otto was very responsive to emails about a year ago, seemed to want to undo all the bad p.r. Gunter had generated. Hope they can eventually get it all together, for everyone's sake. Good luck.

Klinerm, I agree they are very very good tables. I will continue to use mine even if I have to buy a new power supply. Do you know how I can contact Otto? I really want to purchase a second armboard but am nervous about sending money for one. Heck, I probably can't get in touch with them anyway given the many emails sent with no response lately.

I first posted in this thread 1.5 years ago, and I can't believe it's still active. I ultimately received very good service from Otto, although I must caution that there are a couple of addresses used by Acoustic Signature, and they are very particular about which one you send items to be repaired to because it affects their import duties. That issue aside, it seems at best incongruous that a company making some of the best turntables around (the very best for the money?) is plagued by such service issues.

Dgob you're right and I have felt all along that it should be returned to me for a reasonable cost of repair and shipping. Or if it isn't repaired just send it back as is. Its possible Gunther hasn't received any of my emails. After the first or second one sent to him he mentioned my emails were going into his trash. One of my reasons for contributing to this thread is my hope he or Otto will notice this discussion and get in touch with me.

Jeff_ss, thanks for posting that KT imports can repair the power supply should the need arise. That's one aspect of owning the Final Tool that worries me a bit. As an aside, I'll mention that Gunther gave me fabulous service when I wanted a new motor upgrade. He brought it with him to CES in Vegas and shipped it from the US to save me money on shipping. I hope that things work out soon for you.

Jeff,

Financial issues apart, it seems to me that the property remains yours and Gunther is obliged to return it (as you say, repaired or unrepaired). I would continue to press as I know that Gunther is often tied up in the actual production and technical aspects of operations. That sadly meant that he was slow to respond on several occassions with myself. I had thought/hoped that this had been addressed with Otto taking over key responsibilities!? Maybe you can contact them and/or press your case through your local AS representative/importer?

Regarding the armboard, I must admit that I wanted a spare armboard but ran into too many issues with the official UK importer to continue pursuing this. I hope you have better luck.

All of this shoddy customer support seems to me to be damaging what should be a blue chip company, with phenomenal products. Keep us posted and good luck

Yes my first inquiry was to the email address Otto gave in his reply to this post back on 12-22-08. But Gunther replied and all further correspondence was with him. If I had given UPS a much lower value things may have worked out. The circumstances were that the power supply was picked up at my wife’s office for convenience purposes. The day of or a day after pick up UPS called her wanting the value of the item shipped. She called me at work and I was busy, didn’t think and just guessed what the power supply might cost and said $800. Should have said $100. I’ve since found out from Tom at KT Audio Imports a new power supply will cost me considerably more. The sad part is Tom told me he could have repaired it right here in Anaheim CA. Gunther never even asked me to send him any money. In his first email he quoted an estimate for shipping and repairs. If he had sent a message stating that he had to pay import duty when the power supply was delivered to him, and it was delivered since the tracking indicated that, I would have paid the duty plus repair and shipping cost. Also in my second message to him I mentioned I was interested in a second arm base, and he replied with some details about that. So I really don’t understand why he just disappeared and didn’t send back the power supply, either repaired or unrepaired. I’d be thrilled to get it back unrepaired.

Jeff,

Did you seek to contact Otto? My experience was similar to yours with the Alpha but once I got a new one I have not had any problems and it is performing like an angel (touch wood).

Maybe Aramis2007 can give you another positive perspective following his above complaint!?

All the best and do let us know how it works out

I have had a very bad customer service experience with Gunther of Acoustic Signature. The power supply stopped working, I contacted him on Jan 21st, he said he would arrange for shipping back to Germany for repair. It was finally picked up on Feb 18th, there was some confusion the day after it was picked up, UPS called and said there was paper work needing completion, I had to supply the value of the power supply. I should have contacted Gunther and asked him what to do but prior to this he had been very slow to respond to emails, said he was away in Japan. I told UPS the value was $800 and sent Gunther an email telling him this and asking if he was arranging for shipment, why didn’t he take care of everything. His reply was "this will complicate things, $800 will cost a lot of import duty, we will see what happens". That was the last I heard from him until I contacted the new US distributor (KT Audio Imports) on April 1st. That week Gunther sent me an email saying “your Alpha is on the way back to you, shipped by German mail”. I have sent him emails since then and received no response. And of course I never received the power supply. I have a great turntable but no way to use it.

Dear Otto,
You promised me to return a money for Manfred XL version and as compensation send me linings of antiresonances and two spare belts. I got nothing until now. Tell me, please, when??

Flyski,

I agree. Best tonearm/cartridge match that you can find. The Mambo (and you) deserves it.

Cheers

Dgob

My recommendation is that you go for the Mambo and a good tonearm. I agree with Aoliviero, You should match a cartridge to the tonearm.

The Mambo is a fantastic turntable and it deserves to be paired with the best components. I've gotten excellent results with the Dyna combo.

Best,

iSanchez

Go for the Mambo with better arm. It is agreat table. I used to own one and miss some of its qualities.

I had a triplanar on mine and it worked great, but arm should really be chosen in the context of the cartridge.

I am considering a Mambo. What do you guys think would be a good choice for a tonearm? Should I step up to the MK III and go with a lesser arm or a better arm and Mambo?

Hi Otto,

Many thanks for this information. I've had my motorpulley since 2005, would that be the same as the 'new nearly vibration free model'?

Dgob

Hy Folks,
all AS turntables can be upgraded to the newest motors or electronics. Also old ones can use the new belt when the motorpully is changed. But we request to upgrade the motor to the new nearly vibration free model.

Otto

Yeah Otto emailed me. Can be upgraded.

Blueranger,

Did you ever get a useful response about upgrading the belt on your Final Tool? From Otto's comments, it seems that the pully might need alteration!?

Dgob

So the belt must be better?? Can I modify my final tool? Mike

All turntables produceded since end of 2002 come with a square rubber belt and a pully with the right groove for this belt.
Otto

Mike,

I have the rubber square-section belt. It's the same one as the one included with the Mambo. I'm not sure about this, but I think all AS turntables now ship with the square-section belt. The motor pulley I have on the Mambo has a groove that fits the rubber belt.

Best,

iSanchez

Isanchez. What belt do you have. I have silk thread as supplied with my Final Tool and notice AS TTs on their site have something else. Mike

Thanks Isanchez,

That is excellent news and I hope others experience the same level of support.

Cheers

Dgob

.

Acoustic Signature is really back in business!

I contacted Acoustic Signature asking them where I can get replacement belts for my Mambo. After two years, the belt seemed still fine, but I thought it was time to replace it. I got a response the same day. During this process, I had emails contact with both Gunther and Otto.

Even thought this was just a simple belt inquiry, I got as much attention as if I was asking to buy a turntable! Overall, I'm very glad that they are offering top-notch customer service to match their top-notch turntables.

Best,

iSanchez

Hi Isanchez,

Great stuff and I know what you mean about the greater presence: almost an etched quality at times. Funny to think that on AS turntables (with Silencer platters), the best mat might be a 1.9mm or 2.0mm vitton O-ring!:~)

Just a thought but if you can find the Jeweltone Crystal Stabilzer it might be worth comparing that with the Grip in the same set up. I think the slight differences that I hear most here relate to 'staging' and 'midrange' and I think this gives the Jeweltone set up that teeny bit more concerning presence and "actually being t/here".

Cheers

Dgob

Hi Dgob,

The new replacement Boston Audio Mat2 came in a few days ago. After testing the Mat1, SAEC SS-300 mat, Audio Technica AT-600 Ceramic TT Mat and the Mat2, I still hold to my impressions posted earlier. The Mat2 manages to accomplish a more balanced sound, which means that the lower frequencies are in proportion to the mid-range and the higher frequencies. The Audio Technica mat comes in close, but it sounds a bit thin by comparison.

Now, between the Mat2 and the Silencer platter. In each case, the Acoustic Signature Grip MKII was used with a 2mm thick O-ring. The AS Silcencer platter has much more extension at both ends of the audio frequency. The bass is deeper with more definition and power with the Silencer platter. The highs tend to be a tad cleaner with the Mat2.

I paid very close attention to the mid-range. I used Diana Krall records since I've been to one of her concerts. Singing live, she has a more powerful and effortless voice than what her records portray. Her voice pitch definition with the Silencer mat was spot on. Her voice has more presence as well with the Silencer platter. I woudln't say more forward, but just more air and definition. With the Mat2 her voice has a bit less dimensionality.

I still say that the Mat2 is the best mat out of all the mats I own. The fact that with the Silencer platter there is more power, detail and presence is quite a pleasant surprise. If you'll be using a mat, then I highly recommend the Mat2.

I first decided to try out as many mats as I could for my own personal education. I wanted to know how important the record/platter/mat interface was in analogue playback. During 3+ years trying quite a few, I had no idea that the best record interface is the Silencer platter/Grip MKII clamp combo.

Thanks a lot for the suggestion. I tried the Silencer platter with no mat in the early days after I got the Mambo, but I did not use a reflex clamp with it. I also tried the Silencer platter with the Basis Audio reflex clamp and the Michell reflex clamp. The Silencer platter/Grip MKII clamp pair is what really brings the power, speed, definition and solidity of the bass and the rest of the goodies I mentioned above.

Cheers,

iSanchez

Hi Isanchez,

Excellent news. I was blown away (after all the money I have spent on the numerous mats) to find what the naked Silencer platter of the Mambo can do. I'll be really keen to see how it holds up against the Mat2. Look forward to hearing your review.

Cheers

Dgob

Hi dgob,

The Mat2 replacement should be arriving soon. In the meantime, I decided to give the Silencer platter another try. To my surprise, it is remarkably great. For some reason, the sound is quieter with more detail and more definition and extension a both ends of the audio band.

I understand now your pitch difference perception. The naked Silencer platter on the Mambo is spot on when it comes to pitch definition. I achieved this by using the Grip MKII clamp. I found this clamp to be the best match for the platter without a mat.

I have to yet do the A/B comparison between the naked Silencer platter and the Mat2. I shall find out when I get the Mat2 back.

Best,

iSanchez

Hi Isanchez,

Sorry to hear about the fault. I look forward to hearing your feedback after you've received the new one and had time to audition it fully.

Cheers

Dgob

Hi Dgob,

I'm sending my Mat2 back to the factory for an exchange because mine had a little dent that looks like a gap in the graphite. It'll probably take about 10 days for the exchange process.

At the moment, I have the Audio Technica AT-600 Ceramic TT Mat on the Mambo. This is a mat that I haven't spend much time with. I haven't done A/B comparisons with the Mat2, but at least in my system, it compares vavorably to the SAEC SS-300 mat.

I listened to Diana Krall today and there is no shift in her voice that I could detect. I've been to one of her concerts and her voice via the Mat2 seems to have the same pitch as with her voice in the live concert I went to few years ago. The same I could say about the Mat1, as far as I can remember.

There seems to be an emphasis on the mid-range with either the Mat1 or the Mat2, when compared to the SAEC and the Audio Technica mats.

Best,

iSanchez

Hi Isanchez,

I will wait to hear your final verdict before making any purchase then.

All the best and I look forward to hearing back when you're 100% sure.

All the best

Dgob

Hi Dgob,

It seems that there is a frequency shift with the Mat1, but at least in my system, it was not toward a higher pitch. So a contralto sounded like a contralto in my particular case.

There was though some sort of compression in the lower treble and the bass was not as deep, fast, and tight as it is with the Mat2. The Mat2 is closer to using no mat at all with the Mambo, while being more quiet than the Mambo platter with the Silencer inserts.

I don't notice a frequency shift with the Mat2, but I still need to listen more to be 100% sure about this. I haven't had the Mat2 for much time since there was a bit of a delay with the shipment due to the relocation of the Boston Audio factory.

Best,

iSanchez

Hi Isanchez,

Many thanks for your very helpful review. On the issue of frequency response, I believe that the Mat1 raises the pitch: meaning that a contralto might sound like a mezzo or even a soprano. Similar tonal shifts seem to occur with bass notes.

Have you noticed this feature and how does the Mat2 perform in this regard?

Cheers

Dgob

Hello Dgob,

For me, this is the mat the rules them all. In my system, the Mat2 works way better than the Mat1. The lower treble was an area that the Mat1, in my opinion, was a bit fuzzy. the Mat2 renders the lower treble with increased clarity and focus.

The biggest improvement is in bass slam, texture and definition. For some reason, the Mat2 manages to go lower in the bass, while at the same time tightening the bass. I went back and forth several times between the Mat1, SAEC SS-300 and the Mat2. The marked increase in bass depth and definition was a constant that the Mat2 was able to accomplish everytime I put it back on the Mambo.

I'm very impressed about the Mat2 being able to offer a very dramatic improvement over the Mat1. It has much better sound definition than the Mat1. All this came as a surprise to me since I was just expecting a minor improvement overall.

The Mat2 is in a much higher league than the Mat1. Boston Audio should have called it the Mat5, since it sounds about 5 times better than the Mat1, at least to my ears.

A few more notes:

- The Mat2 is as quiet as the Mat1.
- The Mat2 offers better balance and definition from top to bottom.
- The Mat2 is very rigid. It won't bow when using a thick O-ring with a reflex clamp, which was always a problem with the Mat1.
- The Mat2 is 5.11mm, measured with a calibrated Mitutoyo coolant-proof caliper. The Boston Audio website states that it is 5mm thick. The original Mat1 is 3mm thick.
- The weight is 564 grams (this is not dead accurate since I don't have a calibrated scale). The Boston Audio website says it weights 540 grams. The original Mat1 weights 360 grams.

Best,

iSanchez

Isanchez,

How's it going with the Mat2?

Cheers

Dgob

Dgob,

I was wondering myself about the origin of that quote. It sounded very familiar from the moment I read it.

BTW, I ordered the new Mat2 from Boston Audio. I'll post my impressions here once I set it up.

Best,

iSanchez

Isanchez,

Many thanks for clarifying and other things.

Thom,

Sorry and point taken.

Thom's quote is from my post on 11-02-08.

Best,

iSanchez

I 2nd that emotion, rather question.

Thom mackris,

I am a little lost. Where does the quote come from and how does it relate?

Many thanks

I did some research, and experimented myself with another table, on oil viscosity and its effect on the sound. I've found that the oil used need to be specially formulated for the oil-well and bearing tolerance in order to suppress the resonance generated by the bearing itself. So each turntable/bearing design must have its own oil formulation. The only company that explicitly stresses this fact is Basis Audio.

I've been saying this for at least 7 years:
http://www.galibierdesign.com/prd_bearing.html

You are correct that the issue involves matching the viscosity to the bearing tolerance, but it also takes into consideration the belt (or other drive system), motor torque, and platter mass. In other words - everything that makes up this resonant system.

Given that for most products, all of these components are fixed (pre-chosen for you), the only thing you are likely to change is the lubrication, so it's understandable that folks would think primarily in terms of bearing tolerance.

The Micro Seiki guys have been hip to this for years as well, and have (as with us chez Galibier Design) advocated thin oil.

Cheers,
Thom @ Galibier