Putting together a reference level system. My Source is predominantly standard 16/44 played from a MacMini using iTunes and Amarra. Some of my music is purchased from iTunes and the rest is ripped from standard CD's. For my tastes in music, my high def catalogues are still limited; so Redbook 16/44 will be my primary source for quite some time.
I'm not spending DCS or MSB money. But $15-20k retail is not out of the question.
Upsampling vs non-upsampling? USB input vs SPDIF?
All opinions welcome.
And I know I need to hear them, but getting these ultra $$$ DAC's into your house for an audition ain't easy.
Looking for musical, emotional, engaging, accurate , with great dimension. Not looking for analytical and sterile.
Hey Matt,now I can see how power company executives can receive those outlandish golden parachutes!
...High-end audio equipment burn-in with a smidgen of OCD thrown into the mix. Keep that meter spinning...big daddy wants to parachute right into a hacienda on the beach, in Maui,of course...
matt, as far as you Esoteric player goes, I would not consider more exspensses for a while, the player should be really good with everything stock, and use the cables you already own,be carefull when you play with power cords, they are quirky, and it is difficult to find the proper voicing match to any componet, a difficult rabbit hole to go down, but when you do get a revolutionary match, the outcome is quite stunning!
Guidocorona, Hi, could you please back me here to a couple of none believers that the Esoteric K-01 player you own does take 1200 hours to burn-in, that is burning in the player in general, and then each setting, add all them hours, there you have it, it may be more?
I will burn in the 2 or 3 most frequently mentioned settings on the forums and then listen.
The ODSE finished off its month straight of digital food. I turned it and the computer off to give them a well deserved rest. I'll turn both back on Monday for a good listen Wed.
The K-01 is on day 2 of a it's 45 day'ish whirlwind tour of the digital burn in show. Staring - holy crap, if I have to burn one more piece of kit in I'm going to blow an audiophile grade fuse in my cabeza! With special guest - uh oh, now I need a new power cord, spdif cord and XLR interconnect for my K-01! I knew this was going to cost me more then I thought... Featuring - obsessive compulsions Produced by - an unyielding need to find the best performance possible no matter what it takes or costs. Directed by - If my wife asks you, that cable was $132.78! And of course the store gave me full credit on my previous purchase with this trade/upgrade, and a killer discount as well.... And sponsored by my favorite quote: My worst fear is that I die and my wife sells all my stuff for what I told her I paid for it!!!!
09-04-14: Audiolabyrinth Thankyou Matt for your replys, I would not post impressions on the K-01 untill you get 1200 hrs of burn-in atleast!, I really believe you should talk to some owners, this unit takes hundreds of hours for each setting to burn-in, then there is more!
As I have tried to tell you Dilberts before, 20-30,000 hours should be a mandatory burn in time to prevent the premature chopping and changing of audio OCDness....
Audiolabyrinth, early/intermediate impressions throughout break-in are actually interesting, as they show the evolution of a device into sonic maturity... And might just prevent audiophilic panic in impatient new owners who do not experience nirvana at first sound. G.
Thankyou Matt for your replys, I would not post impressions on the K-01 untill you get 1200 hrs of burn-in atleast!, I really believe you should talk to some owners, this unit takes hundreds of hours for each setting to burn-in, then there is more!
OK. I now have a double hernia, but the K-01 is in the rack. I needed to shift some equipment around and move a shelf to fit it. Wow, what a unit! solid as a brick and heavy as a anvil. I am burning it in from CD in the Guido Corona approved setting. I think he put about 250 hours on it already (I think he read Guido's thread since it was already set to those settings).
ODSE will be ready tomorrow. I had to unplug it for 12 hours because of a bad thunder/lightning storm. Even with the whole house power surge suppressor, I still unplug when those big bright flashy zig zaggy things outside threaten to cook my beloved gear!
No time this week to sit down and listen. it will have to wait until next Wednesday. I'll listen to the ODSE and then give the K-01 a quick listen as a dec as well as pulling out some of the CD sources for my test Play list.
No follow ups from the manufacturers, except for Vitus who said they currently have no SCD-025 in the states available for audition, but are working on it.
Matt, re digital cables--I've tried a handful of $1k+ digital cables, and my favorite by far is a 1.5m Transparent Ref XL (xlr version). Pricey but you might find a used one in the price range you mentioned.
This cable has soul :); so much so I want to use my dac's xlr input just so I can use the cable!
Best,
Randy
PS-I'm loving the Romulus Sig; I think it's fully burned in now. I've found out that until a firmware/software is available in the future, it can only play dsd files via its usb input.
Digital cables recommendations below 1k. - Sablon Audio Panatella You'll see Tjay, I think, mentioning that it was better than his 2.5k Stealth Sextet which he once loved. - top of the line Coincident Speaker Technology digital cable, ask them directly, they got some new cables.
Both companies sell directly, so the prices are great to start with. I have both cables, and chose them after comparing them to Argento Flow, Audioquest Eagle Eye, top of the line Mapleshade, Stealth Varidig, and some others that I forgot. Argento Flow was wonderful as was my premall rounded Audioquest Eagle Eye (beware of fakes that are easier to come buy than the original), Mapleshade was compromised but interesting and well worth it but definitely not worth of your Esoteric K-01, Stealth Varidig I shouldn't even mention, only to put things in perspective. I never heard Stealth Varidig Sextet, though. I can also recommend Argento Flow and Audioquest Eagle Eye if you can find them cheaply second hand. Again, you probably won't find an original AQ. Mexcel cables should work well with your Esoteric but they won't represent a good value for money compared to Sablon and Coincident.
Here's a another thought.. I just replaced a Ayon Spirit MKIII and a PS Audio Directstream with a Devialet 200.. I only have a few hours on it but holy moly .. I am officially off the merry go round!
Actually I'm in traction from trying to move it alone from car to house. Holy cr&p this things heavy!
My ODSE will be done burning in tomorrow. Ran it for a month straight. 720 hours +/- . I need help getting the K-01 into the rack, so I'm waiting for my brother to come over and help.
Been busy with the kids. Last few days before school starts, lots to do. Looking forward to a normal routine again.
Alex is sending the DSD-S back to me but I'm not sure when.
I'll post a quick report of my ODSE when I get a chance to listen. Hopefully it will sound the same as the one I auditioned before. I'll also post on first opinions on the K-01 when I get it set up.
1) External DC linear power supply 2) SSD rather than HD 3) use the 5th USB port from the edge and nothing in the other ports 4) Make these changes to the OS: "Audio Optimization Guides" found in iTunes iBooks
Alex, you have a name for yourself modding transports like the Esoteric. What would be needed to bring it up to snuff, and similarly, would could or should Matt do to bring his Mini up to snuff?
Agear, those are tricky questions, especially not knowing the audio system synergy in question.
From experience with older Esoteric units, there are some clocking upgrades needed, as well as digital signal path and digital output circuit redesigns. Power supply upgrades might be helpful too.
The MacMini (especially the later ones) are not very desirable for audio server, at least from what I know. The early examples with Core 2 Duo processor had a dedicated graphics card, while the new ones feature the Intel graphics built into the processor. I have experimented and, in my opinion, when the graphics module inside the processor is used, it takes from the memory and contaminates it (because it uses/shares the same memory controller). Best to me will be an Intel quad-core processor without built-in graphics, and that is what I have as a reference in my audio system.
Also, a MacMini, even with a linear power supply is a very similar solution to a MacBook Pro. Some actually may prefer the latter as it runs on a battery power. However, in both cases the multiple charge pumps (switching power supplies) on the mother board supplying everything remain intact, resulting in somewhat mechanical and lean audio quality, at least to my ears. I personally prefer linear power supplies.
@melbguy1. Thanks for your support. It seems like they avoid honoring the warranty at all costs. I would expect better from this level of high end electronics. I can't buy it ever again. I would be afraid to. If someone takes that king of dough from me and they don't honor the product fixes. There is gonna be a huge problem. I expect service and performance at a high level. I would not be sure if I would get that from them. It's unfortunate that product with so much potential lost a customer like myself for life because of poor customer service.
08-31-14: Mattnshilp Erikminer - thank you for spending more of my money. Something I didn't need any help with... Lol.
I will look into the Aurilic. Does it pull files out of my iTunes folder or do I need a separate designated folder?
Erik strikes me as an instigator and one who enjoys making waves....
It does not pull from iTunes. You either use a NAS or install something like Minimserver (free) on your Mac to communicate with the Aries. Easy breezy. Being lazy, I chose the later.....
DSD-S will come back to you with its output stage biased with twice higher current compared to what it was before.
Also now it has Zero oversampling for PCM, compared to 8x oversampling earlier.
This made a good difference during experiments using all-solid state amplification here, so I've decided to see if you will hear it as an improvement in your system, or not. :-)
Best, Alex Peychev APL Hi-Fi
Alex, you have a name for yourself modding transports like the Esoteric. What would be needed to bring it up to snuff, and similarly, would could or should Matt do to bring his Mini up to snuff?
My coax cable is listed as an option for most of my component products. I don't really want cable pages on my website. They are expensive to create and then I just have to get rid of them when the cable parts become obsolete or I decide not to build any more.
Also, please note that the DSD-S (as many other DACs) has RCA type connectors for the digital S/PDIF inputs using the WBT NextGen that are 75 Ohms too. This was chosen after experimenting with various BNC connectors. So maybe it will be better to get a BNC to RCA cable that will give you a better flexibility.
Looks like the Cable Company has a Tesla D2 with BNC to RCA.
Don't want to derail thread but Matt what made you decide on amps? And did you listen to the thors before getting the veritus? I have a loaner Thor on the way hoping it can compare to my Pass labs Xa100s. Love the sound but want a cooler smaller form factor.
ps: Matt, if you're looking for a good value high end S/PDIF cable, i'd recommend the Jorma digital cable which is excellent value imho. 2nd choice would be the Nordost Valhalla 2, though i'd take the Jorma every time. You can buy this cable new from The Cable Co for $1100 & even try it out to see if you like it!
Thankyou Guidocorrona for backing me on matts Esoteric K-01 player, I believe he will further benefit with your help I am sure, He also needs to talk to other owners as well, I do not want matt to get false impressions of the k-01 player, or frustrated with all the burn-in!, He has no idea that this player takes more burn-in than any player in the world!, but man, the out come is staggering!
Kana, I was also baffled. If you click on the synchromesh reclocker tab, then click options, you will then see "BNC-BNC cable"
Steve, if you are listening out there in cyberspace, it really is kind of confusing. It sure would be user-friendly l if you had a separate button for cable purchase on which to click.
Kana, I was also baffled. If you click on the synchromesh reclocker tab, then click options, you will then see "BNC-BNC cable"
Steve, if you are listening out there in cyberspace, it really is kind of confusing. It sure would be user-friendly l if you had a separate button for cable purchase on which to click.
S_dly2 filter, digital out active, display dim automatically after 5 or 10 seconds.
Connect K-01 via XLR outs to Criterion... Simultaneously with SPDIF to OV... The two outputs can be broken-in in simultaneously.
Give the newborn a steady diet of high-fiber material for 1K hours.... E.g. Stravinsky Rite of Spring, mixed with a bit of Purist Break-in CD, may be a touch of punk rock for good measure.
Teste taste periodically the results on the two outputs.... Note that for best results on the XLR outs, the digital outputs should be deactivated during critical listening.
After basic break-in, each further filter/codec that you wish to develop to its full potential, requires its own 500 hours. So....
500 on DSD 500 on FIR2 + 2X upsampling
I am not sure if FiR1 and S_dly1 require thir own independent breakin time.
I've now hear only one good thing about Ayon and that's the one in this thread. I have been emailed based off my post I assume that others have had the same problems with the Ayon units and that includes and amp. Similar stuf like blown boards. Their QC in Asia seems to lack...if someone is having lettering on a remote or box coming off quickly, that's a problem...If you have constant numbers of boards blowing up in the field, that's serious. I could sound like magic and cost peanuts, but personally, it doesn't matter as I'd be concerned daily. I've been listening to my systems for over 14 hours today alone and I've had no thermal problems or anything else... Matt, thanks again. I'm heading to OK for a couple of football games and hope to get to the Brooklyn show that next week when I'm back. I'm thinking I may go to the show Friday or possibly Sunday. When are others going?
Matt, congrats on a very fine unit you have, the Esoteric K-01, however, even used, Be prepaired to do hundreds of hours of burn-in with each setting, this unit is not like doing a burn-in and you are done!, each setting has to burn-in, The great news here is nothing you own or your computer audio will compete with the Esoteric K-01 unit, you need to talk to other owners on the Esoteric threads!, they will validate my claims here,pm me about cables, cheers.
Calvinj, Melbguy1 knows I bought my unit from, usa tubes audio,that is why he said barbecue store just like you bought your Ayon from the same place, LOL!
Hi Matt, ironically, Steve has done that post before the moderator could even put my up on the board!! I neglected to mention I am using Steve's cable in my setup. Just for kicks I checked what a Nordost Odin digital cable costs....I find this hard to believe...$10,000 (cough,Gag)
Matt, I have read every post of this exciting thread. Since you have the Overdrive, I highly recommend you speak to Steve Nugent about his 1.5m SPDIF cable with BNC terminations. He has done measurements that demonstrate this length, with BNCs, offers the lowest jitter. His cable is very competitively priced. I recently attended a Nordost cable demonstration for the Los Angeles Audio Society and had these facts independently confirmed by a vice president of national sales. The only other option I would trust is Oyaide BNC to BNC true 75 ohm cable, hard to find, and without Steve's support. Furthermore, in Steve's Audiocircle, you will find jitter measurements of his cable. I hope you find this helpful.
I use a low fi Sonos connect into an Empirical Audio Pace Car with turboclocks and the Dynamo power supply into a modified (silver fuse, BNC input, Lundahl transformer) Metrum Octave. I wonder what it would take to improve on this setup significantly...Overdrive is really geared to the USB input (SPDIF is not reclocked, I believe). I read with interest in your input regarding the Rowland Aeris DAC. It is similar to Steve's Overdrive in so far as they both use an Analog Devices chip which provides volume control by varying the voltage. They both strive for an analog, non-over sampling DAC-like sound. Matt, could you be so kind as to elaborate on the differences between your old Aeris and your new Overdrive SE? I want to thank you for creating and more importantly following up on this extremely instructive thread!!, Tom
I celebrate you´re going to try the DACs with a superior transport (Esoteric). My experience taught me that my Esoteric UX-1 plus the Yamamoto YDA-01 DAC beat, by a large margin, a MacBook Pro plus the same Yamamoto. Conclusion: I quit computer audio.
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