The USB compared to SPDIF is interesting and has been debated for quite sometime. There are very experienced and talented designers who insist that USB is inferior sonically. USB supporters counter with it all revolves around implementation. It seems Berkley has joined the former camp. |
Erikminer,
Thanks for the heads up. The review at CA was extremely positive - sounds super delicious! Berkeley saw it fit to not include any usb input altogether. Looks like they subscribe to the philosophy that coaxial spdif is superior to any usb implementation out there. |
Erikminer, Hi, Can you post a link here to the reviews you are talking about? |
Oops sorry Matt.. Don't read the review in the new issue of TAS either! |
Matt.. The first review of the new Berkley Reference Dac was just posted on Computer Audiophile.. I don't think you should read it ... |
09-08-14: Charles1dad
Mtruong34,
Different perspectives I imagine. You're unmarried, I've been very happily married 27 years. My wife has a wonderful wit and sense of humor and would understand Agear's context and find the comments funny.Agear your wife seems to have a wry sense of humor and gets it. Neither would need well meaning but condescending defense of their gender. They can handle it and dish it out.
Charles, You're pretty opinionated and don't seem to mind sticking your nose into very personal subject matter. Then again, you're about as subtle as a bull in a china shop. Stop acting like a self-appointed Moderator! |
09-09-14: Audiowoman
Ah hah Grannyring- there you have it - the power of words. Tell your wife I'll be looking forward to the next installment! An elegant economy of words Audiowoman. Me likey. Heather loved Bill's wife's blog as well and asked if she could make contributions. Maybe it could be a collective affair....not sure how I feel about that.... |
09-09-14: Hchilcoat
Hi there Agear! I loved your description of your wife's comments. I showed them to my wife and she asked if she could have her email.
She looked over as I was typing this (she calls it Audiogon yellow) and asked:
"do all the audio dweebs come out at night"?
My 11 year-old son saw this and said "But you're not a dweeb dad". So there is still hope for me. Howard! Good to hear from you. I will PM you Heather's email. As for your son's comment, he won't realize the truth until he leaves home for good....:/ |
09-08-14: Charles1dad
Mtruong34,
Different perspectives I imagine. You're unmarried, I've been very happily married 27 years. My wife has a wonderful wit and sense of humor and would understand Agear's context and find the comments funny.Agear your wife seems to have a wry sense of humor and gets it. Neither would need well meaning but condescending defense of their gender. They can handle it and dish it out.
Charles, Well said Charles. My wife is an acid tongued shrew who will verbally castrate you in a moments notice. PC underwear or not, you are still a dweeb in her site Mrtruong. I made the mistake of taking her to Axpona a few years ago, and I never heard the end of it. |
Yes, my wonderful wife. Remember the events are greatly exaggerated :) |
Hey Grannyring, was it really your wife? If so, kudos to her.
It was a very enjoyable blog! |
Ah hah Grannyring- there you have it - the power of words. Tell your wife I'll be looking forward to the next installment! |
Hi there Agear! I loved your description of your wife's comments. I showed them to my wife and she asked if she could have her email. She looked over as I was typing this (she calls it Audiogon yellow) and asked:
"do all the audio dweebs come out at night"? My 11 year-old son saw this and said "But you're not a dweeb dad". So there is still hope for me. |
Matt,
It seems like Aesthetix isn't going to send you a Romulus/Pandora Signature for your test.
After you pick the winner from the ones you've listened to,
you could send it to me and I'll compare it to the Pandora
Signature here. |
OK OK, I 'll try to lighten up. |
Audiowoman, great to hear from you!
My wife got a kick out of your use of the word "nay" and said that was enough for her to think about it. |
Ah Grannyrig, I still miss your wife's blog! Can't we have a yearly, nay monthly, installment? |
Ha! I am just a more extreme version of you... Please don't insult me. I'm nothing like you, Radical Sharia Law ISSI Muhammad Agear. You are the definition of War On Women. BTW, do they allow audiophiles under Sharia Law? In 2 years, we will be under Sharia Law or speaking Russian so making preparations. FORE!!! |
Mtruong34,
Different perspectives I imagine. You're unmarried, I've been very happily married 27 years. My wife has a wonderful wit and sense of humor and would understand Agear's context and find the comments funny.Agear your wife seems to have a wry sense of humor and gets it. Neither would need well meaning but condescending defense of their gender. They can handle it and dish it out.
Charles, |
09-08-14: Mattnshilp
Your a strange man AGear.....
Nothing new to report. Hoping I have some time wed to do some listening. I must be crazy. Considering my abject lack of free time, I should just invest in a good pair of ear buds and load up my iPhone and give up....
But I won't! Unlike Joecasey, there is a method to my madness. If you lived with my wife, you would be in an endless state of jihad too. Did you get my car joke yet? An iPod with a good set of buds is very pleasing as is ambient music via a Sonos. In my weaker moments, I share the same sentiment.... |
09-08-14: Mattnshilp
Your a strange man AGear..... +1 |
Mattnshilp then you will need a HIFIMAN 901 with balanced card and the Mr. Speakers Alpha Dog headphones with good cables. It's not a free ride with portable audio. |
Your a strange man AGear.....
Nothing new to report. Hoping I have some time wed to do some listening. I must be crazy. Considering my abject lack of free time, I should just invest in a good pair of ear buds and load up my iPhone and give up....
But I won't! |
Yes, Agear was appropriate and being his humorous self. The subject of the "wife" is squarely on topic and peppered throughout a multitude of Agon threads. Read " The Audiophile's Wife" blog and have a good laugh! |
09-07-14: Charles1dad
How this common fact can be considered sexist or disrespectful is political correctness gone over the edge. It's OK to joke/be tongue in cheek when it's a comment on your OWN wife, but not acceptable if it's SOMEONE ELSE'S wife. Geez I'm not even married and I get it. |
Hi Guido,
You have to admit that WAF is one of the quintessential audiophile topics.Just check the archives and see how frequently this term is used. Okay back to discussing extended burn in hours for the Esoteric players.
Charles, |
09-07-14: Charles1dad
My impression is that Agear's comments are tongue in cheek and are meant to be light hearted fun. Charles knows this well as I have broadsided him multiplied times on his own system thread. 09-07-14: Joecasey
Gents, let us return to audio-centric topics please. G.
No thanks to Sharia Law Agear, attacking and disrespecting women on an audio site. Agear doing what Agear does best. Audio ISIS. Unfortunately we're sure what his particular cause is....: Ha! I am just a more extreme version of you... As far as I am concerned, wives are fair game. Just last night, I was fiddling in my audio room, dutifully organizing some DSD files, and I got a text from the wife (who happens to be 7 months pregnant): "Can't fall asleep. My legs are achy." I believe she wanted a massage for her varicosities.... My response was apparently too slow and this nastigram followed: "Too busy talking to a damn audio dweeb to help your wife"? She looked over as I was typing this (she calls it Audiogon yellow) and asked: "do all the audio dweebs come out at night"? My jihad against the opposite gender shall continue.... |
Gents, let us return to audio-centric topics please. G. No thanks to Sharia Law Agear, attacking and disrespecting women on an audio site. Agear doing what Agear does best. Audio ISIS. Unfortunately we're sure what his particular cause is....: I would report him to Audiogon and homeland security. LOL!!! |
Gents, let us return to audio-centric topics please. G. |
My impression is that Agear's comments are tongue in cheek and are meant to be light hearted fun. Many participants on this site often refer to their wives (and for legitimate reasons). Their input does sometimes impose "limits" on what an audiophile husband can do in regard to spending budget and imposition of the audio system in a shared/room/space. That's the simple reality of compromise for many adults who Co habitat. How this common fact can be considered sexist or disrespectful is political correctness gone over the edge. Men and women both have to give (and take) in a happy long term relationship.
Charles, |
9-07-14: Bander
Yes really gentlemen, comments re Mattnshilp's wife are inappropriate at best. Those who post such comments clearly don't get. Let it be a learning experience for you.'Wife' comments are sexist, and disrespectful. I'll stop here. Lord have mercy. What a serious (and PC) crowd. It was actually a subtle car joke albeit a sexist one. |
Yes really gentlemen, comments re Mattnshilp's wife are inappropriate at best. Those who post such comments clearly don't get. Let it be a learning experience for you.'Wife' comments are sexist, and disrespectful. I'll stop here.
|
AGear. Not sure what your deal is with the persistent commentary about my wife, but she had no problem with the car. Her issue is in regards to having a big ugly stereo and acoustic treatments in our office.
And I have not heard a lot of DSD at this time. Although the DSD library is growing, it's not extensive for my tastes yet. |
Thankyou grannyring, cheers. |
Matt, what specific DSD have you heard to date? Is it only the upsampling entities such as the Meitner or Directstream? Looks like you still need to hear the Aesthetix piece. Also, next Saturday I'm picking up a 2013 Porsche Boxster S PDK/sport chrono pack/active suspension management & torque vectoring. Got it certified pre-owned for a steal! I am sure your wife will be thrilled....;/ |
The Overdrive DAC will likely not support DSD in the future. I have another DAC design in mind for DSD.
Steve N.
Empirical Audio |
AudioL we are on the same page. |
I'm sorry grannyring, please forgive me, I just did not want everyone to believe I came up with those numbers of burn-in for the Esoteric K-01 player, I was only passing along what has been told to me over the last year from the forums concerning the burn-in proccess of the player, nor did I want to appear as if I was a liar, or did not know what I was talking about, or that I am OcD!, cheers. |
I am not sure about ODSE ever being DSD compatible. Maby Steve can chime in on that. I'm still not on the DSD wagon as the mass of my music is red book (hence the thread title). I got the K-01 to play discs and convert DSD from the computer. I'm curious to see how the K-01's DAC compares red book to the ODSE.
I tried listening to my turntable today. Something's amiss. It plays but sounds thin. I need someone with analog experience over to help.... Sigh.
Still cooking the esoteric. I'm putting Wed aside to listen to my ODSE. Now that it's fully burned in, I want to make sure it sounds as good as the demo ODSE I had. Then I'll start listening to the esoteric a bit more and reporting.
Word on the DSD-S front is that it's on its way back. I need more time!!
For those who appreciate it, I have a brand new Yamaha C2X grand piano being delivered Monday afternoon. I'm VERY excited. And my son, who really makes those ivory's singe, is even more excited.
Also, next Saturday I'm picking up a 2013 Porsche Boxster S PDK/sport chrono pack/active suspension management & torque vectoring. Got it certified pre-owned for a steal!
Not showing off at all, just really excited about some of my audiophile related and not so related hobbies! |
AudioL, you missed the simple point. Jon2020 and I and others are not saying it does not change beyond 200 hours. I suppose gear changes it's whole life the older it gets! No kidding. The point is not to go OCD on hearing the parts age! |
I've been very pleased with my Playback Design DAC 5, has external usb conversion box, lot's of inputs. I use it for my hi res computer system, my Qsonix server via digital AES, and my Oppo 105 via digital RCA. it up samples to DSD, or 2xDSD, and makes whatever source I use sound great. It's been a reliable rock, and I've experienced outstanding customer service and guidance on all things DSD and JRiver from both my local sales team of Ed, as well as Jon Tinn himself. Can't ask for more than that. It has stood the test of time in my rig. Just my opinion of course, and with the synergy of my system.
Fun to reach for the stars.... |
I agree completely with Jon2020.... At about 200/250 hours, K-01 starts becoming a very enjoyable machine... Just be aware that... "You ain't heard nopn'" yet.... There is likely to be even better to come for a spell. So, if you are not yet in rapture at this point, be patient and postpone panicking and placing an Agon ad for a while.
On the other hand, if panic / buyer's remorse could not be avoided, Do not worry about it.... Some lucky adoptive parent will pick up the "little" beauty and love its music on your behalf.
Concerning filter/upsampling settings.... I felt in my own system that 4X + S_dly2 offered a balance of resolution versus musicality that suited me. On the other hand, I might not have broken in the DSD engine to completion. Besides... A personal preference is exactly that... A personal, and often temporary matter.
Bottomline, K-01 is an amazingly flexible tool... It can deliver enjoyment to many, but not to all, within a variable amount of break-in time... Let us leave "Beliefs" and the pursuit of absolutes where they belong.
G. |
Grannyring,
Thank you for your kind words. In this most joyous of hobbies, there is no need for unpleasant debates. It is simply a matter of whatever that is music to one's ears. If we listen less for pleasure than worry more about what "should be" - then the whole point of this hobby is somewhat lost along the way.
Btw, congrats on the very recent completion of your current set-up. Sounds awesome! |
Matt, I presume the OSDE will be DSD capable soon. Listening to DSD through the L7 is a wonder.... |
Grannyring, I suggest you go to the Esoteric threads like I have, I have been told many times of the break-in time of the Esoteric units, I care less what Jon2020 has said here, one person out of 25 that has told me different! |
Jon2020 your first post is a breath of fresh air and the truth. 1200 hours is truly the wrong frame of mind and filter for enjoyment and sanity. Great post that said it very well. Thank you. |
Matt,
Thanks for your message. To keep the discussion open in relation to this thread, I reproduce the relevant parts of your message below.
"Thank you for your input! It is appreciated and heard.
I am listening to the K-01 while I break it in. But not critically for the thread until properly broken in. It actually had about 250 hours on it, so it doesn't need that much more for its current settings.
May I ask what settings you use?
And may I ask what other amps you considered/tried with the Muzik speakers? I am looking for a new uber amp and Guido Corona has made it very clear that The Muzik speakers demand more then 700 WPC into 4 ohms to deliver the dynamics and nuances that they are capable of."
I am currently using DSD for Upsampling and OFF for digital filter. It's strange as I am not a dsd diehard but somehow, having gone through all the different combinations, the dsd setting gets it right 90% of the time. This setting gives a wider and deeper soundstage, provides more body to and air around instruments, while notes decay that much longer.
My general impression for all the settings are as follows, depending on the overall sound of the system or recording to begin with :-
1. Cool, dry, lean, thin, fast -> FIR1/2
2. Warm, slow, boomy, laid-back -> SDLY 1/2
3. Balanced - DSD
If I am not using DSD for upsampling, I usually keep the setting to ORG instead of 2x or 4x.
Of course, it's all about synergy and your mileage will vary with the amps you use. I agree with Guido that the Muzik needs loads of power to soar. The amps I use for The Muzik are the Bryston 28B SST2 monoblocks which put out about 1200W at 4 ohms. I haven't tried other amps with these speakers because I had them before the speakers arrived and I am just lucky they sing well together. So, my K-01 settings are to be placed in this source-amp-speaker context.
I am not sure if you can find a pair of these Brystons used with the 20-year warranty intact..... but happy hunting!
Cheers! Jon. |
Hi Matt,
I have been following this excellent and enlightening thread for a while and would like to chime in with regard to the issue of burn-in.
I have been enjoying my K-01 for more than 2 years now. While I agree that burn-in is important, thinking about this detracts from the immense pleasure that can be wrought from this amazing player well before the 500-1000+ hours called out by others. I would like to echo Ctsooner that 200 hours is good enough to start enjoying the gorgeous capabilities of this player.
I also have The Muzik speakers in my system, and with the K-01, this is indeed a match made in audio heaven.
The sooner we stop thinking about the number of hours needed for burn-in of each of the options - 4 for upsampling and 4 for digital filtering, the sooner we can derive pleasure from just listening. While there are gains still to be perceived after more hours, the increments are small.
After 200 hours, the many options/combinations can be tailored according to the overall system sound, personal tastes and the recording on hand. The beauty of this machine lies in its ability to be tailored to many possible situations with no one "right" combination. It's simply laissez-faire.
Congrats on getting your ODSE DAC. Unless I am missing something, with the ODSE as DAC for the K-01 as transport, the burn-in of all the K-01's options may be moot.
Happy listening!
Jon. |
Gentleman, I am not kidding here about the burn-in proccess of the Esoteric K-01, go ahead, talk to any owner you like, they will tell you the same, go to the few threads here about the Esoteric players, I have had this conversation many times with owners of all the new Esoteric units, I was just like all of you guys, I did not believe it either!, after so many times of being told the same thing by all the owners, I had no choice but to believe them, OCD has NOTHING to do with it! |
Hi Keith, I do not own a K-01 at this time. My past findings are summarized in some of my previous posts. Sorry... I am not looking for "believers" of any sort... A healthy dose of Skepticism is expected and welcome. If anyone has experienced stabilization of K-01 in significantly less than 1K hours, please post your detailed findings here or on one of the various K-01 related threads.
G. |
