Absolute top tier DAC for standard res Redbook CD

Branislav, it must be different strokes for different folks. I went to that room and turned around and left.

I wish I could have been there. Maybe I would have done the same, who knows :-). I'm coming next year for sure...

Branislav, I had a very good RMAF, but attendance seemed down. It is far and away the best show in my opinion.

Tbg- which room did you turn around and leave?

Melbguy- the Vitas gear is still on that short list of true uber dacs.
Vitus, DCS, MSB, CH Precision, Trinity, Emm Labs new just introduced DA-2, and some would put the Berkeley Reference DAC and the Lampy Golden Gate in that list....

At that list level it truly becomes personal preference and system integration.

Are you using Vitus amps and preamp as well?

I hope that CH Precision has evolved since I heard it two years ago at RMAF. To my ears, the suite was a veritable ear bleeder... Positively acrid. I asked the gent if perhaps the system was fresh out of the box and needed a bit of break-in... Gent became very irrited.... Told me that the system sounded the way it should.... CH Precision does not need any break in.... Sounds perfect right out of the box.

Thus, picked up my test CD, and... Left for sweeter pastures.

Thank goodness MSB was across the isle. I quickly reconciled with the world of audio: I was enchanted.

G.

Guido, I didn't say I liked all of those options. Just that they were considered statement products. I heard an all CH system with $100k+ Zellaton speakers and neither the electronics nor the speakers were to my taste. But to some it is their holy grail and I would not want to take that away from them.

I forgot to add the new Soulution DAC I heard at RMAF. And the DAC that was in the Vivid and German Physiks room. The name currently escapes me. Lots of serious choices these days.

Hi Matt, sorry... I did not imply that you enjoyed CH Precision. It's just that the sound of the brand is beyond my ability to grock. Yet, I am glad that some audio lovers do have an affinity to it.
G.

Matt, yeah the SCD-025Mk2 is a wonderful sounding rb dac. Of the other dacs you mentioned, I've only had direct experience with the Soulution 500 & 700 series spinners & CH D1 with the optional dac board. Of course I really liked the Soulution 745 which sounded amazingly smooth, resolving and musical, though not cheap!

I also run a Vitus SIA-025 integrated which is a lovely integrated & had planned on upgrading to the new SS-025 power amp & SL-102 pre, but re-ordered my priorities and am now upgrading my speakers to Magico S7's which I think will give me a bigger improvement.

Guido - no worries. I didn't take it as an insult. Just pointing out.

Melbguy1 - cool. Enjoy those S7's!

I have no idea what the last post is on this thread as I am tired of always having to spend time going through all the pages. After page 11, I will not post any longer.

Norm,

I hate (and I mean actual hate) the Audiogon forum interface. it's mostly driven me away from the forum. but there is an easy way to get to the latest post without going through the whole thread. just select 'last' 24 hours of forum threads and then scroll down to this thread. then click on the last post you see and you will be near the end, the 'last 24 hours' does not refresh right away so many times there are posts you don't see until you actually click on the post.

I actually enter the forum from 'buy' on the main page and then select community -> forums -> 12 or 24 hours.

maybe there is a better way. but it's the least maddening way I've found.

10-13-15: Tbg
I have no idea what the last post is on this thread as I am tired of always having to spend time going through all the pages.

As an alternative to Mike's suggestion, near the bottom of whatever page opens, just above the "post your response" box, just click on the ">>" if it is present, or on the right-most page number if it is not present. That will take you directly to the latest page, without having to go through the previous pages.

Regards,
-- Al

Almarg, it works. Thanks.

Why don't they just add new posts at the top? Is it just laziness?

Mike - how's the Trinity treating you?

The purpose built power conditioner for the MSB is supposed to be arriving today so I'll be able to add that in and get final thoughts on the MSB DAC.

The settings are interesting. I don't notice big differences at all on the Upsampling options but the filter changes dramatically change the sound. I'll play some more and report.

Is it just laziness?

most high end forums are run by audiophiles....and use generic software which gets updated as part of the licensing.

Audiogon is a business with a closed/unique piece of software. the forum part is an 'expense'....and not a 'fun thing' for them. not saying they are not nice people or don't want to help. but it costs money.

what would be their ROI on making the change?

there is your answer.

Not derail the thread much more, but it seems they are about to update the forum interface in a big way. I just got a link to check out the beta version.

@Hew, hopefully. I'm with Mike. The current interface is incredibly frustrating, having to log in twice in a row between the old and new platform!

You may want to wait.
A discrete Multibit 32 x1 bit dcas per channel that supposed to do DSD as well.

Looks like Bruno Putzey of Hypex Class D amp fame has gone to designing a discrete Multibit dac (called the Mola Mola) that uses 32 x 1 Bit dacs per channel, that is capable of doing dsd as well as Redbook.

Production board
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LNvVXCqEtEU/hqdefault.jpg

I think this was the prototype
http://puremusicgroup.com/cart/images/uploads/Moladac_proto-web.jpg

Cheers George

Thanks George. I'm a huge fan of Bruno's NCORE module! Can't wait to hear what he can do with a converter.

The MSB line conditioner arrived yesterday. I hooked it in and ran the little ground wire to my amp as described in its manual. I've never used any type of system wide grounding system for my room since I ran the electrical myself and was meticulous with running identical power line lengths for each outlet back to the dedicated breaker panel. I tried the conditioner with the ground isolated and shared with the amp. In my system I didn't really notice a difference, which may be because of what I just described I don't have enough understanding of ground loops and such to give a better answer.

The conditioner itself was on par with my Shunyata Hydra conditioner I currently use. I A/B'd them basically. I never ran the DAC straight to the wall. I'm going to hold onto the conditioner and try it on my ODSE to see if it makes a difference.

Regarding the MSB Diamond DAC:

Fit and finish are Statement level as you would expect. It's the most attractive and well built DAC I've had in my room. I had the black but would have preferred the white/silver. Controls and remote were well laid out and easy to use, as was the back panel. Nothing was in the way of anything and the cable layout flowed elegantly. The settings, as I said, were limited (which i prefer) and I ended up leaving them default. The upsampling softened the overall gestalt and decreased the height of the soundstage. And I could not discern a difference between upsampling #1 and #2. So I left it off, default setting. The filters caused a more dramatic change but not for the better. Default was 32x; which I preferred 95% of the time. The other 2 settings reduced low frequency extension, exaggerated the upper mids and highs and gave the sound a more technical nature. The background became the foreground with the 3rd filter setting; quite strange an effect really. So settings, as such, remained default which is what Vince suggested when I spoke with him at RMAF.

I initially ran it through my Burmester 077 preamp. The DAC has a recognizable warmth. This was decribed to me by the dealer as a result of removal of all noise and jitter, leaving behind just the music. It was not overwhelming and clearly something many will prefer. At first it felt natural and flowed but over time I became more aware of it; sometimes good and sometimes not. Staging, imaging, tone and texture were all dead on as were leading and trailing edges (which I found more easily identifiable with the MSB then any other DAC). The 16x filter removed the warmth almost completely, but the magic of the MSB also faded. It was sweat, engaging and felt right many times. But I didn't feel like I was getting quite the accurate portrayal of what was recorded. That was provided more naturally, to my ears and in my system, by the Emm Labs unit.

I then tried running it direct from DAC to amps. As any of you who have been reading since the beginning (and you know who you are, you crazy pathological dedicated few) know, I have consistently preferred running my DAC thorugh a preamp over direct to the amp. The MSB is quite an accomplishment in engineering regarding fits volume control. With the DAC run direct, the warmth was stepped down a notch or two. It was still there, but for the first time I thought I preferred my DAC run direct. I felt I gained a level of analytical detail and removed a touch of warmth and for that I preferred direct. After more listening felt that I lost a sense of air, complexity and depth that made me eventually put the preamp back in. If I were ever going to run a DAC direct, this would be it. Which is good because at +/- $42k, saving money on a preamp would be a very good thing. If I were going to run a DAC with a lesser preamp I would go direct honestly. But the previous Rowland Criterion and my current Burmy 077 are SO good that I think they just give me what I need to complete the whole scenario. Maybe it's just me...

In the end, I prefered the more natural sense of tone, realism, complexity and depth that the Emm gave me. I was given the opportunity to acquire an early run of the brand new SOTA Emm Labs statement DA-2 just shown at RMAF. I couldn't pass it up and placed a deposit. If it's better then the dac2x, which I can't imagine its not, then I should be quite happy with the results. For now, the MSB goes back with no misgivings and my ODSE is back in. The DA-2 should be here late 2015/early 2016. So I will hold off on any additional DAC trials until the DA-2 has arrived and is well burned in.

That being said, I seam to have people send me dacs to try out and compare. If/when that happens I will report and let you know. For example, my neighbor's Berkely Ref DAC with usb/SPDIF converter should be arriving early next week. We will burn it in on his system and then I will borrow it and report. He also just got an Aurender N10 music server so I can start playing with that and will report shortly as well. I want to give that 100-200 hours to burn in.

In the meantime I received a very unique product from Waversa that I was asked to play with and evaluate. It is called the W Smart Hub and is probably amongst the first of a new line of product that will start to emerge with the onset of Renderer's, NAS drives and Internet integration. It is essentially a battery isolated Audiophile grade Data Hub. It has both usb and Ethernet ports on back. Usb goes between server/DAC and Ethernet between NAS/network and between server/renderer. Each signal is repowered from the battery, totally isolating it from any external power and then each port is filtered to isolate noise. It sounds cool but I have not had time to actually install it in the system. I'll try the Ethernet part first, then the usb, then both. Let's see.... I can say it's built to a very high quality level with a very nice fit and finish.

This could be nice, all starting to get back on the R2R Ladder Multibit wagon. Maybe it does Hi-Rez as well.

http://www.thraxaudio.com/Maximinus.php

Cheers George

Looks like it can do DSD.

http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCgQFjACahUKEwjT3Nu768PIAhUjKKYKHYbAClw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.audioreference.co.nz%2Fnode%2F4727%2Fpdf&usg=AFQjCNGuppiLsznclqReaWpUrtwlIaXTtQ&bvm=bv.105039540,d.dGY

Can you elaborate on its ability to do DSD? Can it do double or quad DSD, which seems to be the way digital is going?

The Ultimate Tweak:

I want everyone to know that I have spent the past 13.897 weeks secretly researching and implementing what I consider to be the worlds ultimate audiophile tweak. I am, quite frankly, shocked that no one else has thought of this before me. After delving into room treatments, cabling, vibration and electromagnetic isolation, psychoacoustics, phase and time shifts, and simple speaker and seating placement it became clear to me that we have all missed the proverbial boat completely. As the waves of music emanate from the speakers they instantly hit the greatest limitation we all suffer from. Air my friends. That ghastly combination of mostly Oxygen with some Nitrogen, Helium, and a few other trace elements compressed at a measly 1 ATM (atmosphere of pressure - 760 torr). Our beloved waves of acoustic energy affected by such a plebian design as air; it makes me wretch and heave just thinking about the unacceptability of the situation.

Once the thought came upon me I was unable to sleep, eat, drink, work, respire, perspire, perfuse or waste a single molecule of ATP on anything other then my new goal. I immediately set at work sealing off my room of any possible entrance point for that horrible air. Such a poor transmitter of acoustic waves that they travel but a few meters before dissipating to the four winds (literally). Once my room was devoid of all things air'ish I began phase 2 of my plan.... what would work better then air? My first juvenile attempts were to simply try air collected from outside of some of the more prominent Audiophile companies. as is the case with wine and the earth the grapes grow in affecting their quality, if these companies can make music sound good it must be the air around their manufacturing plants that has something special... I began my trek to the corners of the globe (has anyone every realized what a stupid expression that is?? Globes, by definition, have no corners!)and collected air from outside Nordost, Rowland, Burmester, Soutution, Accuphase, JM Labs, YG, and many of the other reveared companies. I pumped my room full of each of these collections to no avail... I will admit that the air outside of the Colorado based Rowland Group has a rather funny smell and made me feel great, but it didn't improve the actual sound quality. My suspicions were realized in full, air in all of its forms was not the solution....

It took months, 78 trips to the hospital, and a small fortune in rare and available gas combinations to come upon the solution... With a combination of compression to between 9 and 14 ATM (around 9,120 torr)of 98% Nitrogen, 1% Argon and a small mixture of Xenon, Vaporized Silver (gives the sound a touch of accuracy), Silica salt ions and the concentrated smell of my Maltese's left ear canal I had done it! The compression needs to be highest in a direct line from the speakers to my ears (what I refer to as the listening tubes) and then mitigate as it expands laterally, giving the sound increasing speed as the pressure reduces, reflects, and then hitting a wave of higher pressure at it re-enters the listening tube as a reflection. The increased viscosity of the listening tubes propagates sound at a much more efficient level then banal air and the wave front created by the change in pressure essentially eliminates all reflections. Utter perfection!!!

The room came at a cost of 19.4 million dollars as the variable compression device is rather complex and is wired completely with Odin 2 speaker wire; 2/3 of a mile of it in total. The gas cost is negligible and my Maltese doesn't seam to mind me extracting the ear canal odor much at all. I have, unfortunately, been hospitalized several times for severe cases of the bends and I subsequently installed a very sophisticated decompression system which allows me to listen to music down to about 4 atm before the sound quality becomes unacceptable.

Compression requires about 2 days to fully stabilize the variable compression system which is perfect as it allows my equipment to warm up nicely during that time. I have taken to knitting, sock puppet animation and cats cradle to pass the time during compression and decompression.

I tried a Synergistic Research Atmosphere to fine tune the system and it seamed to work wonders until I set it to its Easy Listening setting and it had a severe interaction with the Xenon, Argon mixture and blew up half of my block. Boy were the neighbors pissed!

As it stands I believe I am the first in the world to have this system and I am utterly disgusted at al of you for not thinking of it sooner. It is the proverbial "No Brainer".

Please let me know if you would like to implement one of these systems in your home. I will gladly provide a detailed layout of the entire design and a list of all necessary supplies.

You, of course, will have to provide your own Maltese.

If you don't have one of these then you truly can not call yourself an Audiophile!

Oh, please keep in mind that the respiration system required to breath in what I have come to fondly refer to the room as "The really freaking expensive room filled with gas and lots of pressure that makes my nose bleed and ears happy," is made of carbon fiber and requires carbon fiber air tanks and hoses to avoid ringing. I mean, any Audiophile worth his weight in StillPoints knows that its gotta be carbon fiber! If your not going to take this seriously then don't even try....

TBG

It said this: (It can also handle the DSD signal (via the DoP protocol). Whatever that is?

Cheers George

DoP stands for 'DSD over PCM', which transmits DSD data via PCM frames. The original DSD data stream is then reconstructed from the data in these PCM frames, and the DSD data is converted into analog.

Thanks Bill as you can tell I'm still a Redbook stalwart, and never delved into DSD as I've never heard it yet, convince me that it's better than a well implemented R2R Ladder Dac playing RedBook.
So it's a bit like when they release earilier/older album that was only ever originally recorded in PCM 44.1
And they bring it out again and say "new high rez" just released of the same thing.
You know it was done only in PCM 44.1 and know it was never re-recorded in hi-rez or dsd, so it's not better just done so it can be resold again to the gullible in dsd format.

Cheers George

So correct me if I'm wrong this DOP protocol on this Thrax dac must switch in a Delta Sigma chip somewhere along the way?

Cheers George

George - While I appreciate the sound quality of DSD, I believe that digital recordings are best represented in whatever format they were originally mastered in. So to my ears music that was originally mastered in DSD sounds best when converted to analog directly, and likewise PCM mastered material sounds best when converted from PCM. A lot depends upon the specific DAC being used though, as some excel in either DSD or PCM and may sound better in their best format even with converted files. Nothing in audio is absolute, there are many differing opinions on this topic. I'm not certain about your last question, but I don't think that DoP support necessarily indicates that a Delta Sigma chip is being used. I'm sure someone here will speak up to correct me if I'm wrong about that.

Thanks Bill you kind of echo my thoughts.

From my listening experience if originally recorded in PCM 16/44.1 then the best way to listen is via proper implemented R2R ladder Multibit dac 16/44.1 conversion.

If that same 16/44.1 is played back using Delta Sigma, it worse tha the Multibit

Again if that same recording is re-done into DSD (HiRez) and played back via Delta Sigma type dac to me it is still worse.

The only time DSD "may" to me sound better, is when it's recorded from the beginning using DSD, not that I have ever heard it yet.
And I would like to hear normal mainstream artist, not special one offs of obscure artist/bands just to show off the DSD format.

Cheers George

As it stands I believe I am the first in the world to have this system and I am utterly disgusted at al of you for not thinking of it sooner. It is the proverbial "No Brainer".

Matt,

I enjoyed your 'poke' at all of us audio nerds who take ourselves too seriously. yes.....we can get carried away and self absorbed. but if it makes each day a little richer and makes the music reproduction better then what the heck. anyway thank you for entertaining us and I can't believe you have not had more comments.....are we really that caught up in our own stuff?

I have to admit that I'm typically as bad as anyone.

time to lighten up.....

cheers!

Paul, you are always OK with me man. I was away for 4 days and so couldn't respond.

Keep your suggestions coming. Sorry if I made it seem like they are not welcome...they are!

Bill_k, DOP needs computer time to convert back to DSD, that latency means more processing time. It is much better to keep DSD in DSD. It is true that it is all just math but DOP require more computation and choosing what to do with in-between numbers.

Speaking of DSD, I just picked up an FIM DXD cd which was recorded AND mastered in 24-bit 352.8 kHz resolution onto a 99.9999% silver disc. I accept that my Vitus SCD-025Mk2 cdp will still be playing that in RB standard, but it should be a great recording which I think it is more important than the format imho.

TBG, DoP is DSD and latency can be adjusted by A+, for example.

DoP is DSD in a PCM shell, as you most likely know.
Direct DSD is not necessarily NATIVE. It may indeed be converted to PCM for playback in the Dac.

DoP may be limited to DSD128 only though...

Melba, DXD is high rate PCM not DSD...

Wisnon, yes I know that but the computer has to unpackage the DOD that increase latency and as you say it also has a low limit.

Having heard a quad DSD recording at the RMAF, my quest is on.

Copied from another site:

DXD is not DSD (direct stream digital, one bit recording). DXD is a PCM format that is a very high sampling rate of 352.8kHz / 24bit. Merging Technologies and Pyramix incorporated the DXD format into their recording systems to provide PCM like tools at a much higher standard than was available at that time. DXD at 352.8 is approximately 4x larger file size than DSD2.8 though, among avid DSD recording engineers, some may hear a more PCM like quality to DXD that is not to their liking.
The Sonoma system for recording to DSD has limited editing capabilities but can stay in the DSD format without going to PCM/DXD. The limitation for the Sonoma system is that is currently only records in DSD 2.8 (also called DSD64)
Some labels, like 2L, have chosen to record in the DXD format and release in DSD. This allow for more editing that is common to PCM. DSD as a "container" for DXD is a very suitable solution for delivering files to end users/music lovers. Some labels, like Channel Classics, choose to record in DSD and on occasion will convert to DXD for minor editing purposes. Some labels, like Blue Coast, record using the Sonoma system and limit their editing to stay in the DSD format.
What the future holds is up to the consumer. Eventually, the acceptance of DSD will provide recording equipment capable of DSD tools equivalent to that in the PCM world. As a container, DSD has proven itself to be efficient for delivering files at about 25% of the file size of industry equivalent PCM formats. As broadband continues to have bigger 'pipes', DSD could be the optimum choice for streaming and downloading our music in the future.
The best test is to listen and decide for yourself about DSD vs DXD or PCM.

Mattnshilp, I think much depends on the companies with master tapes. I have heard that SONY with the bulk of master tapes and very concerned with them deteriorating, is going to transfer them to quad DSD. If they do so an make down loads possible. The questioning is over.

Having heard a quad DSD violin recording at the RMAF, I can say most ardently that I would get as many of the SONY tapes as possible. I have also heard several DSDs made from SACDs and played as double DSD. Here too I will seek as many of these as possible.

I have 17 Quad dsd files so far. done right (native) they are remarkable through the SE Lampy GG in my system. the native PCM through the Trinity is also remarkable.

original analog remastered through Quad dsd will be a crap shoot.....with variable levels of re-mastering. my next Quad dsd downloads will be analog recordings and we will see how those go.

give me the native format 100% of the time, whatever that was/is. that is how I want to hear my music.

Hi Matt, yes i'm aware of DXD's original purpose as editing software in the mastering process. Though FIM for one have taken that a lot further & record, edit & master their cd's in DXD onto extremely pure precision-cut silver discs. Of course that is down-converted to PCM & is playable on RBCD players. But my ears tell me the sound is stunning. Very undigital as I imagine DSD would sound. My Vitus gear obviously helps. XRCD24 discs are also amazing..even my parents who have no clue about audiophilia noticed the difference. Obviously native double or quad DSD should be superior given a great DSD dac like Mike's Lampi, but I definitely feel like I want for nothing with the vast number of audiophile RBCD formats including DXD, XRCD, K2HD, SHM & Mofi 24kt gold cd's. Plus I love handling the media, reading the liner notes & spinning the disc...something you can't do with downloads.

Charles1dad and Matt, I admit I have failed to read through this post but looks like there is a discussion going on active preamps... Over the years I have gone active to passive back to active and my 2 cents are... The less "circuitry" in(terfering) with the virgin signal is certainly a good thing when looking for the pure sound, however, having said that, source amplification is VERY minimal and unless one has extremely efficient speakers (i.e. horns) amplification (i.e. pre-amplification) is generally always required...

Unfortunately, in our 'sport' money reserves are expected to be deep (by the manufacturers) and it is no secret that once in the stratosphere, 99% of cost increase gets you 1% improvement. As such, what I have found is...

The more you can afford (all else being equal) upstream gets you the best purity. In other words, your creme de la creme should be (in decreasing order) source, pre, mains, speakers - of course you can add cables in-between each one and voltage-cleanup.

I might add, this idea does make physical sense, as as the signal strength is the smallest (upstream) improvements and/or pollution is only amplified downstream.

In my own system I found I did like passive preampfification best until I found what I have now (Atma-Sphere MP-3) and my only upgrade that I still want now is going to a MP-1 (top of the Atma-Sphere line).

A Top Tier pre will enhance dynamics in a PURE fashion - something a passive pre just cannot do.

Hope this may help

10-17-15: Grateful
As such, what I have found is...

The more you can afford (all else being equal) upstream gets you the best purity. In other words, your creme de la creme should be (in decreasing order) source, pre, mains, speakers - of course you can add cables in-between each one and voltage-cleanup.

I might add, this idea does make physical sense, as as the signal strength is the smallest (upstream) improvements and/or pollution is only amplified downstream.

Thanks for your input, Grateful. I certainly don't question your experience and your observations, but I would respectfully disagree with the last sentence in the quote. Notwithstanding the fact that a lot of audiophiles believe similarly.

While it is true that "pollution" introduced upstream is in many cases amplified more than pollution introduced downstream (but not always; see the next paragraph), the same is true with respect to the signal. And what matters is the relation between the two, not their individual magnitudes.

Furthermore, while the signal level at the source may in many cases be smaller than further downstream, that will often not be true in the case of digital sources in particular, with the preamp's output signal in such cases often and probably usually being at a lower level than its input signal.

And even in the case of vinyl playback, where of course extremely low level signals are present at the output of the source, I would comment that from a technical standpoint amplification of very low level signals is not by any means necessarily more problematical than the task of a power amplifier, or the task of a speaker in converting the large amounts of power it receives into sound. The technical challenges in each case are certainly different, but I don't think any conclusions about which are likely to be more critical are supported by rationale that is based on the magnitudes of the signals that are involved. Contrary, as I say, to what a lot of audiophiles seem to believe.

Just my $.02. Regards,
-- Al

Grateful, I use no preamp at all, and am as happy as a clam *grins!*

Believe it or not, my speakers are not high efficiency horns by any stretch of the imagination.... Die muzik are multi-triver 91dB speakers with a wilding input impedance dipping into the nether regions. I use a Rowland Aeris DAC directly into 430W Rowland M925 monos... No, I am not suffering even a little bit from line stage withdrawl symptoms.

G.

Guido- having previously thought that even the mighty Aeris sounded best with a preamp, I can understand the thought of requiring gain from a preamp. But after hearing Jeff Rowland's voicing system sans preamp I have a different attitude.

I believe that there are certain products that are very specifically constructed and deigned to sound their absolute best with their own mating gear and can skip the added gain from a preamp when doing so. Rowland, Ayon and MSB come to mind. I believe that these products truly sound their best when mated with their purpose designed sister amplifiers. Impedance, gain, etc are all perfectly matched to eliminate the need for a preamp completely. If not mating them with like manufacturer, a preamp permits the user to integrate those wonderful components into a mixed system and maintain their magical performance.

I know you tried to tell me this 2 years ago. But I just wasn't ready to listen. Grins.

The Aurender N10 is in the house and I will start cooking it tomorrow. I'll report quick first impressions including ease of setup and control, and then throw about 200 hours on it before I really listen and compare it to my Mac Mini.

I use the resonessence mirus dac. It allows me to not be hooked up to a computer. I use sdxc sad cards 2-256 gb. I got 100 of my best recordings up sampled to 2xdsd using korg audiogate. The sound is sublime. Deep soundstage excellent transparency. I never really wanted to be hooked to a server or computer. This allows me not to be. The sd cards are another approach to this high resolution music that's not talked about. I only get it done for the Best albums. Anyone reading this you ought to give it a try. No one ever responds to my posts here but if you have an opportunity to listen to this give it try.

Thanks Calvin.

Someone a while ago, maybe you (sorry don't remember who) brought up the Invicta and Mirus dacs. I read up on them and they look awesome. I never had the opportunity to hear one but I was intrigued by their design and parts utilization. I'll bet they sound great.

Thanks for the input!

@mattnslip. Thanks for the reply. I guess when we have huge libraries of music it's like we skip over things we like. With the sd cards I got the 110 best and well recorded albums in my collection and I'm enjoying them in dsd quality. They sound wonderful. I don't have to worry about the server. The power supply to the server. I don't have to worry about cpu noise, interference or other stuff. I get the album. I have it up sample by korg and put it on a card and I am done. Plus the sound is sublime. You here deep into the recording and it has an excellent soundstage. Detail and layering are excellent. Transparency is class a. I'm very happy with it. This company is owned by the brother of the guy that developed the ess sabre chip.

Hi Matt, I have heard and used Aeris only on Rowland electronics this far... A really delicious thing. Hope you have the M925 + Aeris experience in your own music-cave some day.

A preamplifier between Aeris and the amps will subtly flavor the whole. Is a "purist" configuration "better" than a "flavored" one? I would not say so per se... It is a matter of personal preference, with a particular DAC, a particular pre, a particular amp, particular speakers, music, cave, mood, and particular strain of misfolded Audiophrenia Gravis prion particles infecting you.

Saluti, G.

Calvin, you can double the musical fun with your high res recordings... Sandisk has a 512GB SD/XC card available. Currently sells for $448 on Amazon. G.