Absolute top tier DAC for standard res Redbook CD
Agear, Yes, Totaldac Server is about $5K all in, with DSD. You are not just getting a server though, you get the Reclocker too. The Server is a module added (heavily shielded/modded Cubox Quad Core, with custom power supply on a board) to the Reclocker, and you still have all the inputs of the Reclocker at your disposal. So, you can get the best from a CD Transport, or whatever other digital source you want to throw on there. |
Matt I'm glad you had a chance to listen to the Sevens again today. I should have coordintated I was at John's yesterday. Just so your are aware the Sevens John has are the orginal ones not the MK II version. I'm not sure there is a big of enough difference to fundamentally change your impressions but just wanted to make sure you were aware. Having said that the review the CTSooner mentioned from Audio Beat on the Seven MKII did suggest the difference was very significant. I can't wait to hear you thoughts and also am curious on the comparison between the ODSE and the Bricasti M1 now that you have had some time to compare. Jeff |
Paul79 - I never said they were bright. In fact they were not. But I found at times they shouted at me. And the low frequency just didn't get to where I wanted. The room wasn't ideal but it wasn't poorly setup. I feel I got a good sense of what they were capable of. Wisnon. Going Goldman is a huge right angle turn from my current direction. I'm not sure I can emotionally handle that drastic a change. I know and like Bob so I'll call him to chat. I re-heard the Vandy 7/2 today. I don't have time now to report and I need to gather my thoughts and opinions. I'm running into the operating room. I'll post later. |
I also have the Mac Mini, with the SR5-18v5 Paul Hynes. SSD, 8g ram, Amarra, Audirvana... It is pretty good, but the Totaldac Server is ALLOT better in every way, most notably in transparency, dynamics, and 3D imaging/sound-staging. I also hear no difference in FLAC, AIFF, WAV, that sort of thing... It all sounds fantastic (Linux for music man!!). The Totaldac USB Cable is a nice tweak for cleaning up the sound from the Mac Mini also. This is something cheap to try. That little sucker was my gateway drug into a full Totaldac Twelve 4 box front end, which I find to be other worldly digital reproduction. Not cheap, but I am not looking for another DAC... I recently did a comparison to an $80K analog front end, and the Twelve held its own. Both in same system with the same music. DSD vs. LP. The Totaldac lost out to the ultimate ambient resolution and absolute perfect transparency of the analog rig, but in every other way, the two were comparable. Speed, image focus, tuneful accurate bass, soundstage accuracy, sound of the instruments, dynamic contrasting, etc... |
Richfield, sorry I missed you yesterday and Matt, I'm sorry I'll miss you today. I've liked many of the Dynaudio I've heard. I think that may have been the speaker I"d have gotten if I didn't fall in love with the Vandersteen when I did. As for servers, I have Steve's mac mini with Hynes power supply and it's amazing. I"ve heard most of the servers being talked about in this thread and I have to say the the three that Matt is looking at are all outstanding, but honestly, I'm not sure if they better my set up with the tricked out OSDE/SE and the mac mini playing high rez music from it's upgraded SS drive. The only problem I have now is finding the right NAS and also CD drive as I want to rip all my CD;s to a NAS and then I may get a server when things settle down and get even better. Any NAS/Blueray, DVD drives suggestions are fine too ;)... |
If Matt does rumble into Manhattan, a visit to other hi end dealers may be in order including Jeff at Highwater Sound. i have always loved his rooms at shows. I liked the Cessaro horns and Horning speakers: http://www.highwatersound.com |
08-12-15: Wisnon Agreed! My last digital front end (circa 2005) was wireless, and what a liberating experience that was. I have been waiting for speakers and everything else to catch up, and it finally looks like it has. The best wire is no wire, etc.... |
GearD, sorry, didnt see that understaood now. On another note Ensign, belay that last order. I just good some feedback from a close friend about the Prologos Mk2, NOT the Prologos+. Holy Moley, my pal is selling everything after he went straight for that! It was the most spectacular feedback I have seen from him or anyone for that matter. Talk about a happy camper. He said it was even MORE spetacular at his home than his demo at Goldmund HQ and at the NYC dealer, as crazy as it sounds. |
Surprised you found the Pearl 3 bright... It is anything but that IME. Detailed, accurate, transparent, yes. This they are. Put bad in front of them, and you hear it. I have never been able to assess sound at showrooms or at audio shows. It just doesn't work. If you've found something that almost works, for a decent price, it will likely be cheaper to fix the room :) Then put any darn speaker you want in there. |
First off, sorry for all the typos. I wrote BASE instead of BASS. LoL My Bad. GearD, I think Matt is more in the mode of ISIS than Ra, due to the visceral impact of the 15inch woofer. If absolute MR/HF quality was not the issue, I would tell him to get a pair of FUN Silver Phantoms and call it a day! Heheheh The Bass there is "WRONG", ie air pushing rather than vibration propagation, BUT they hit hard and are soo much fun. True plug and play with a dose of artificial intelligence as the units talk to each other and automatically adjusts their configutration to the new optimal. Imagine a club with 32 of these suckers hung on the wall and playing in Tandem! Ultimate in cool. You know I was snobby against the Phantoms till I heard them but I must say I enjoyed the experience. Ultimate nervosa liberation. The only thing close would be the Goldmund Logos tower, but that is $60K a pair and goes down to about 40db while the SPs go down to about 30 in practical terms. The Logos will likely be more refined in mids up, but the price to improvement ratio is not very encouraging. |
Matt, I dont think you are being limited at all. You clearly state that the real problem is nodal issues with the base resulting from the geometry of the room and the config of the speaker bass ports. many of the speakers you say have delicious mids and highs, BUT the bass is consistently and issue with anything but sealed, down or front ported. So yeah, you can improve your source, but that wont change the laws of speaker physics. No matter what the upstream is, you STILL have to find a livable speaker solution, so keep concentrating on that. This should be particularly reassuring to you, as I threw more speaker options than most at you. LoL |
Mitch2- much appreciate your views on digital transports. I'll be following Matt's journey, which I believe will eventually get around to transport/DAC. I'm interested in the integrated storage transports- 2TB should be plenty for a music collection expected to reach 3,000 albums (80/20 redbook/hi-res) by 2020. I think? Anyhow, I wonder if Roon's features will show up with Antipodes, Aurender, etc? I'd like to have that dynamic interaction of my collection with info from the internet. I'll try to be ready to buy in another year, which could be good timing. Meantime, I'll enjoy my Cary 306 SACD Pro and I'll continue adding to my music collection! Finally, thanks again to all those contributing to this thread. Cheers, Josh |
Mitch2 - I don't disagree with your thought. But I have also spoken with others who feel that a well done computer server is just as good, and this from people have have compared them directly. I am looking at Lumin, Aurender & Antipodes. I don't have the dedicated funds until I decide on speakers to get. I'm assuming that whatever I have currently will only sound better with a dedicated server. But I'm a try before I buy kinda guy (shocker there)! I'll get all three in and see which works best for me, or that my Mac mini is actually better then we all think. Richfield and CTSooner will be happy to hear that I have an extended audition this Thursday morning to hear the Vandy 7/2. I will report my findings. I did get to hear the Vivid Giya2 and the Joseph Audio Pearl 3, and neither was for me. The G2 was very laid back and although the base was extended I found it tubby and disjointed from the rest of the sound. Setup and the room where clearly a factor - they have these strange sort of forward firing side ports and side firing woofers and I think the speakers were set up too close to the side and back walls. But they were simply too laid back for my tastes. The Pearl3's had a very nice engaging midrange and did wonders for vocals and piano. I found their highs to be a bit in my face occasionally and the low frequency extension doesn't go as low as I want. What it did have was tight, impactful and musical. They lacked the sense of scale and complexity I am after. With complex orchestral segments I found the speaker lacking union and cohesion. But they did have a speaker that wasn't even on my list but works fantastically for my needs. But it was set up with mid powered tube gear and really needed high power solid state gear to shine considering its 84-85dB sensitivity. The Dynaudio Consequence Ultimate. I will be going back next week for a second listen. At 250 pounds a speaker there is no opportunity for an in home demo. I gotta do it the old fashioned way and hear them in a store..... I'm going to try to get back next week to hear them set up with solid state gear. I'll keep you posted. |
Why did you choose the Antipodes over an Aurender?As it shakes out, those would be the two companies I would look at if I were looking to purchase something today. I looked into a few others but found reasons not to pursue them. I like the minimalist Linux set-up used by Antipodes and how it is optimized ot operate extremely quietly. There were three reasons I chose the Antipodes; 1. Good feedback - At the time I was looking, their top model (DX) had just come out and all of their lower models had excellent reviews based on sound quality, and Steve Nugent (Empirical Audio) said it was the only unit he had used that bettered his special 2009 mini with Hynes PS, etc., 2. Expandability - At the time, they had an "extender" that could be used to serve music to any room/system from the main DX unit (they discontinued that and are supposed to be coming up with something "better" but it is taking a long time), and 3. Availability/Price - I was able to purchase a 2TB SSD DX at a discount from an outgoing dealer (they now have new USA representation and are adding dealers). Since I purchased mine, there have been several rave professional reviews of the DX citing excellent sound quality. If I were to purchase today, in addition to the DX, I would look at the Aurender N100 or the Antipodes DV Zero, both of which are set up to play music from a NAS. My DX is also capable of playing music from a NAS if I choose to implement a "direct playback" set-up, but, for now, 2TB is more than enough solid state storage for lossless FLAC files. In addition to great sound quality, I like the Antipodes because of the easy on-board ripper, just load a CD disc and 5 minutes later it is copied, stored and cataloged. Dave Clark complained about the Vortex Box interface not being compelling enough in appearance, but it looks and works just fine on my iPad. I haven't seen the Aurender interface, maybe it looks cooler. The DV zero, when properly set-up, is apparently equivalent in sound quality to the DX, but at a lower price. Here is what they say; By eliminating internal storage, the DV Zero has been specifically optimised for 'direct' playback from a NAS. The DV Zero achieves a sound quality level that comes close to the DX, therefore offering the ideal solution for people with large music collections demanding the best possible sound quality.I will close by saying I am completely happy with the sound quality of the DX and happy I purchased one instead of continuing to try and improve my system around the mini. BTW, you can purchase the DX with a SSD up to 3TB in size. |
Matt, if you are using your digital set-up 75% of the time in your speaker auditions, IMO you should consider replacing the Mac mini with a dedicated audio server before making your final decision on speakers. The difference between using a tricked out Mojo Mac mini with outboard linear power supply, and just about everything else that can be done to a mini, and changing to an Antipodes DX server was so significant in my system that I suspect the mini may be limiting the true abilities of the speakers you are trying, particular at the level of resolution your system displays. To try and explain the differences, I would say the DX sounds more natural, and certainly more enjoyable, because of the absence of a bit of edginess displayed by the mini, in comparison, and because of improved body, tonal density and depth displayed through the DX. It is not particularly night and day but the last 5-10% rarely is. |
Olympic III only goes down to 35hz. The Amati Futura and the Strad are amazing. But neither integrate well into my room with their port location. The Nola Metro Gold's arrived today. I listened briefly. As expected, the rear ports activate the room and pull the room into the equation. With the bottom or front port the room is silent, it's there but neither adds nor detracts from the music. The two low frequency drivers are listed as 6.5" in the specs but I measure them as 5 3/4" edge to edge. They measure in the specs to 25hz. Audibly they do that, but the visceral sensation of low frequency extension is not truly there; it is coming from their interaction with the room as opposed to directly from the speakers. Its reliance on the room to augment extension is exacerbated in my room with my nodal issue. The reason it's not as bad as some of the other speakers is that the speaker doesn't extend as forcefully as, say, my Der Muzik's. They have refinement and finesse in the low frequencies and aren't lacking. But they don't punch and have impact like I am after. The rest is, at least on first listen, rather musical and engaging. The ribbon has shown me no sign of harshness or shrill behavior and the mids are proper, layered and just on the warm side of neutral. I'll keep you updated on their progress. The amps and preamp were cold. |
Paul - also, thanks for the suggestion. I have the soffit stuffed full of insulation. With down or front porting, I have no base issues. Clean, tight, extended base down to about 23hz. Measured. I do have some more diffusion coming next week to manage my side wall reflections a bit better. But with the right speaker, my room sings now. In fact, although they were not my favorite speaker I did measure an absolutely flat curve from 23hz to 21khz with the Lawrence Audio Double Bass in the room. Also proved to me that perfectly flat doesn't mean musical and engaging. Although one of my friends thought they were the cats Meow..... |
22.5' is not a bit bigger then 18.5'. It's only 4' but it makes a big difference. My length is my issue. I made a mistake not going 23' long. I find I can't get the speakers far enough off the front wall to allow the ports to breath and stay far enough away from the speakers to make them sound good. I'm sure it's my overall dimensions and my construction, but thus far anything new that I have tried that is rear ported sets off the nodes in the room something fierce and is overwhelmingly boomy; no matter where I place them. Bottom or front ported is fine, as is sealed. There are plenty of great options that are bottom or front ported, or sealed. So I'm good to go. I just need to pick my favorite. The Coltane Tenor is stunning! But mucho bucks! I'm just trying to find a less expensive option that gets me to the same place that the Tenor does. We shall see. |
I heard the Trenner Friedl RA Box speaker driven by the Viva Aurora at CES 2010 and it left a lasting impression. Show conditions and yet it was one of the very best presentations I've heard. Utterly natural and realistic tone.dynamics and musical flow/pace. Simply very emotionally involving(real musicians playing in real space,very tactile). It made other systems(most of them more expensive) sound dry, sterile and hifi(canned) relatively speaking. I have no idea how the TF RA would sound driven by high powered transistor amplifiers such as the Burmester 911. The Viva is an entirely different animal, but a beautiful one with those speakers. I could have stayed in that room the entire day. Charles, |
Wisnon just asked me off thread what SQ I was looking for. Here was my response: SQ - as I explained, I want tight accurate base with finesse and refinement but I want impact and scale. I want to feel It. I want the second and third harmonics from the base that makes the music engaging. I want leading and trailing edges that are accurate but not overstated or blunted. I want mids that are full and textured. I want complexity and layers and nuance. I want highs that don't shriek and make me wince. Just extended properly reproduced highs with clarity and detail with an inner core of music and depth. Most importantly, I want my feet to be tapping and I want to be emotionally engaged. I don't want to think about the next song I'm going to hear because I'll be to caught up in the one I'm currently listening to. I want my eyes closed and my body & soul swaying and bobbing to the music, no matter if it's a crappy MP3 or hi-Rez or vinyl. Is that asking too much? |
Hey Matt, You likely mentioned this, but why are you having bass issues with a rear ported speaker? IME, it can be quite a useful tool, in that the closer to the front wall, the more low bass energy you have, to a point. Rear ported speakers can get muddy sounding bass if too close to the front wall. Maybe this is your issue? Are you locked into a speaker position? Seems as though you have some freedom. Your room is just a bit smaller than mine. Mine is 17 1/2ft X 22 1/2ft X 10ft high, and I have had no issues with rear ported speakers here. I just pull them out into the room until I get the right balance of punch and low end, then tune the room accordingly to make it all balanced. Given your room size, I think the 60hz area is likely your biggest problem. Missing some slam? The traps likely helped this allot, but you might need more trapping. Bass is the number one issue with getting a system to sound right though, so I can understand your frustration. One thing that I would do in that room, where that drop ceiling/soffit area behind your listening chair is... I would deface the front of it and stuff that with all the insulation I could get in there, then cover the face with a big speaker grill of sorts. This will go a long way into balancing that room more. |
Wisnon - pm sent I know of the MM7. It's their statement product. Four huge towers. I think the MM3 is their "realistic" reference product. Ypsilon doesn't have any speaker on their web site, nor does the U.S. Importer. No matter the name. It's just not there.... AG speakers are great. I'm hesitant because of my 11' listening distance and my smallish room. I think my Burmesters are fast enough for the AG and up to the challenge. I set up an audition for the Pearl 3 next Tuesday. I'm hoping to get to hear the Avalon within a few weeks as well. |
My apologies Matt its not the Phaeton (that is the amp) its the Eratos! My bad. Not only were they showing the brilliant integrated Phaethon 110wpc integrated which had been previewed in Munich and should start to export by November, they also had their very first production speaker called Eratos built from 10-year old aged solid wood. A docked two-box three-way, the pièce de resistance here is Ypsilon's home-rolled ribbon tweeter obviously tapped off their own transformer. Their designer claimed a colossal 15mm of linear excursion and a 2'900Hz crossover point with a for this driver type shallow filter slope of 12dB/octave. Having petitioned these folks for a review sample of the Phaethon already in Munich, I'll reserve sonic comments for the formal occasion later in the year except to say there's good reason why this exhibit opens my report. http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/highendsuisse2014/1.html http://parttimeaudiophile.com/2014/05/29/high-end-2014-ypsilon-audio-introduces-phaethon-integrated-amp/ http://ypsilonaudio.de/lautsprecher/erato-ls-100/ |
Matt, I wish I had your direct contact info. More efficient, but so be it. Best for AG speakers will be a very fast high bandwidth SS amp like a Goldmund Job225 or Telos. I know becuase of a good Boston pal who hated his AG Duos for years till he accidentally borrowed an amp from a mutual pal. Now for the first time in years he is loving it. As the bass was powered, it didnt make sense, because for the first time the bass was keeping up with the horns. When I spoke to the AG guy at the Zurich show, he said it made sense as the bass amps ONLY cover up to 150hz and the rest is being done by the main amp. The Ypsilon speakers sounded exceptional. Look at the pictures on the 6Moons Zurich show coverage link I posted above. Short write up at theaudiotraveler.com as well. EA has a MM7 which is their new Top of the line. Same as MM3 but with Bass drivers added on top....even more HUGE. If you can somehow find the Phaeton, grab a listen! Thanks for the fast feedback. |
I have a pair of Nola Metro Grand Reference Gold speakers coming on Sunday. Which is good because I crated up my Muzik's and my MM3's, and I returned all the other speakers I had. So I am actually speakerless right now. The Metro's are rear ported. But the dealer and manufacturer feel that since the woofers are two small, very fast 6.5" woofers, that the rear port will not interact as poorly with my room. I'm not sure I believe that, but they are willing to put them in my room to prove it. They are very aware that I am skeptical, but I certainly won't argue as they are supposed to be great speakers. Also, if I do like the voicing but the woofer ports are an issue, the next larger model up (The Baby Grand Reference Gold, which is still a reasonable size for my room) are sealed enclosures. They are, of course, also twice as expensive. |
Tidal are all rear ported. So they are out. Vapor Perfect storm is too big, they are huge. Derecho is a lower model. The Joule would be the one that fits my room. Salk SS10 is in the same genre as the Vapor Joule although I don't honestly think that either the Joule or the SS10 is in the same class as the others I'm looking at. The MM3 is their reference level speaker. Although I loved it, I liked the sound of the Marten Coltrane Tenor more. And I am trying to find a speaker without a powered woofer. Although I love sound of the Avantgarde, it really is designed to sound best with a very good low power SET amp (or low powered solid state like the First Watt) and it has a powered woofer. With a low power SET, the powered woofer makes sense. With my powerful Burmesters that have world class low frequency performance using a powered woofer makes no sense. |
TBG used to own Tidal Contriva Diaceras a few years back and loved them then. I recall his enthusiastic post where he said they were the only speakers he knew that presented no compromises. A buddy in Holland just got the new Tidal Flagship L'Assoluta and is loving them. They have diamond drivers everywhere and he says they are absolutely transparent. Tidal seems to be one serious speaker company. Gear, the MM3s are HUGE. They show with Dart gear here in Geneva, so I know them well enough. Beasts. Matt what about the MM Mini2??? That is super as well and I have heard them in a whole day session last Feb with Dart gear. Much smaller footprint and same house sound and the big and little brothers. Failing that...Vapor Perfect storm or Derecho? |
Updated list (these are my serious considerations at this time): T&F - Isis/Ra Avalon - Isis/Time BMC - Arcadia Joseph Audio - Pearl 3 Avantgarde - Duo Grosso Vandy - 7 Marten - Coltan Rowen looks interesting. But unavailable in the U.S. Backes & Mullet also looks interesting. But I can't read German so the web site is tough to navigate and it looks to me like their speakers have either rear ports or rear facing passive radiators. I don't think that would work. Ypsilon Phaeton - neither the website nor the U.S. Ypsilon distributor have a speaker listed for Ypsilon. No Phaeton to be found. JBL - I remember hearing JBL systems a few times. I found them to be dynamic and big but lack subtlety and refinement. |
